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Post by mrpicton79 on Mar 29, 2023 7:14:21 GMT
Harry Wilson good at home, crap away. Fair assessment? He was very good when he came on against the Czech Republic in the WC campaign, so maybe not. |
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Post by morg on Mar 29, 2023 7:20:47 GMT
My only issue with Wilson and Ramsey in same team is we lack width down one flank? Roberts was out main outlet down the right but didn't do much with it. Leaves us exposed defensively too Seemed a bit disjointed given Williams and James on the other wing.
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Post by pclaude on Mar 29, 2023 7:25:39 GMT
He had not learned has he? His learning from WC was the need for energy. Well we found out the brave 3 subs versus Croatia was not brave or tactical genius - its was pre-planned and an effective concession of the game that luckily did not turn out as expected. Tonight instead of fresh legs he decided to let us hang on and hope. We should not be holding on at home against Latvia for the last 25mins ffs! The problem is this does not look sustainable does it and we are not playing to the sum of our parts - despite being a relatively average team - our average team of premiership / championship players had less energy in the last 20 mins and were hanging on against a Latvia team, in respect to which I have no idea who they play for?! Page is managing us as if we are Port Vale! If page had made a couple of substitutions on 60 or 70 minutes we would have kept up the energy therefore kept Latvia pushed back. It was very obvious at 65-70 minutes we needed a couple of subs. Page is very slow at these. |
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Post by pclaude on Mar 29, 2023 7:27:56 GMT
Connor Roberts a weird game. Refusing to try and attack the right wing. Maybe following instructions. Not enough for me There was definitely a point on about the hour mark where there was an instruction from the bench and suddenly both full backs sat much further back. |
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Post by mrpicton79 on Mar 29, 2023 7:38:21 GMT
Fair enough everyone sees the game differently , I could be wrong but thought both Neco and Connor been really good overall last 2 games , got legs and able to keep possession , get out of tight areas and move forward, a bit more dynamic than Ben Davies … tricky to drop him tho! Mepham and Rodon been good enough too I'm a massive Roberts fan but hes just not been at it for a while for me. I thought his positioning was excellent but then you need to get a cross in and get them sweating. For whatever reason it was slow it down and play neat football with Wilson that allows Latvia to recover, he was doing the fullbacks job for him. There's question marks about his attitude for me. I didn't like that moment in the first half when he turned his back on a simple pass from Mepham and the ball went out of play, then he started arguing when it was obvious Mephs was always going to play it to him there. He's never terrible but he always plays like he's not really arsed about the outcome. The ambition in his game has gone. That's in stark contrast to Neco on the other flank who's always busting a gut to make something happen. |
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Post by jbt95 on Mar 29, 2023 7:49:06 GMT
My only issue with Wilson and Ramsey in same team is we lack width down one flank? Roberts was out main outlet down the right but didn't do much with it. Leaves us exposed defensively too Seemed a bit disjointed given Williams and James on the other wing. Ramsey kept going wide I thought. |
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Post by rushy on Mar 29, 2023 8:18:34 GMT
Realistically though, Ramsey offered little and Wilson is overrated, Roberts, I didn't understand what his game was, but we scraped the win even though Latvia created chances better teams would have taken, however 4pts is an excellent start .
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Post by morg on Mar 29, 2023 8:26:26 GMT
My only issue with Wilson and Ramsey in same team is we lack width down one flank? Roberts was out main outlet down the right but didn't do much with it. Leaves us exposed defensively too Seemed a bit disjointed given Williams and James on the other wing. Ramsey kept going wide I thought. He did, but he's more effective through the middle... Would prefer a proper 433 / 451 with say James on one wing and Johnson on the other. |
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Post by njdragon on Mar 29, 2023 8:30:15 GMT
lots of negativity last night about this game so looked up latvias passed results this morning... They haven't lost many and not many teams are smashing them.
They put 2 passed republic last week 3-2 loss and majority of losses are like a 1-0 to holland. They seems to play sides like moldova and andorra a lot so could be the reason they are ranked so low but i was surprised by their results.
Only one thumping by germany
2022
25 March 2022 Friendly Latvia 1–1 Kuwait
29 March 2022 Friendly Azerbaijan 0–1 Latvia
3 June 2022 Nations League Latvia 3–0 Andorra
6 June 2022 Nations League Latvia 1–0 Liechtenstein
10 June 2022 Nations League Moldova 2–4 Latvia
14 June 2022 Nations League Liechtenstein 0–2 Latvia
22 September 2022 Nations League Latvia 1–2 Moldova
25 September 2022 Nations League Andorra 1–1 Latvia
16 November 2022 Baltic Cup Latvia 1–1 Estonia
19 November 2022 Baltic Cup Latvia 1–1 Iceland
2021
24 March 2021-2022 World Cup qualification Latvia 1–2 Montenegro
27 March 2021-2022 World Cup qualification Netherlands 2–0 Latvia
30 March 2021-2022 World Cup qualification Turkey 3–3 Latvia
4 June 2021-2020 Baltic Cup Latvia 3–1 Lithuania
7 June 2021 Friendly Germany 7–1 Latvia
10 June 2021-2020 Baltic Cup Estonia 2–1 Latvia
1 September 2021-2022 World Cup qualification Latvia 3–1 Gibraltar
4 September 2021-2022 World Cup qualification Latvia 0–2 Norway
7 September 2021-2022 World Cup qualification Montenegro 0–0 Latvia
8 October 2021-2022 World Cup qualification Latvia 0–1 Netherlands
11 October 2021-2022 World Cup qualification Latvia 1–2 Turkey
13 November 2021-2022 World Cup qualification Norway 0–0 Latvia
16 November 2021-2022 World Cup qualification Gibraltar 1–3 Latvia
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Post by njdragon on Mar 29, 2023 8:34:16 GMT
C'mon mon, they never looked liked scoring give the lads some credit. We fkn played well !! So why are people saying Ward did well? His communication of a rock solid defence? Ward made a good save early on. They had a physical threat from set pieces. Ward was coming out and collecting a few late on taking pressure off us. Morrell getting caught on it. That flick Ward got down for. The misskicked volley and block by Rodon. I think people are unsighted because of poor finishing or the fact they didnt go in. All of them were chances and it was a difficult end to watch. Fair play to you if you knew they wouldnt score, I was relieved to hear the final whistle, probably as Page was when he threw Cabango on. Like any team, if they had a half decent striker they wouldn't be so low down in the rankings but they haven't and were toothless despite create chances. There were a big physical side They dont get hammered in many games though |
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Post by bringbackelmo on Mar 29, 2023 8:36:48 GMT
They're clearly not a bad side at all - there aren't many in international football these days. Some of the comments I've seen on Facebook and Twitter are embarrassing, who do they think we are?!
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Post by quetzal on Mar 29, 2023 8:42:10 GMT
They're clearly not a bad side at all - there aren't many in international football these days. Some of the comments I've seen on Facebook and Twitter are embarrassing, who do they think we are?! For sure. Let’s not forget that their keeper was their best player and probably Man of the match. He made some proper saves. The Wilson one at end of first half. Neco Williams save was world class. We could have won that game 3-4 and no one is complaining |
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Post by njdragon on Mar 29, 2023 8:43:58 GMT
They're clearly not a bad side at all - there aren't many in international football these days. Some of the comments I've seen on Facebook and Twitter are embarrassing, who do they think we are?! Exactly and who do they think we are, we've just lost some superstars. Most of our team aren't playing regular football , 2 quality players out at the mo. We got 4 points from 2 tough games but Of course they want page gone. Moaning about substitutions now even though was clearly the right response as the boys on the pitch did the job. |
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Post by jbt95 on Mar 29, 2023 8:52:02 GMT
Ramsey kept going wide I thought. He did, but he's more effective through the middle... Would prefer a proper 433 / 451 with say James on one wing and Johnson on the other. Yeah exactly my point, he should be in the middle of the pitch. Why the hell was Moore by the corner flag at 0-0? Tactics are shockingly bad. I’m not one of these who was expecting 5-0. I knew how it would pan out. |
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vader
steve evans
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Post by vader on Mar 29, 2023 8:58:05 GMT
I'm a massive Roberts fan but hes just not been at it for a while for me. I thought his positioning was excellent but then you need to get a cross in and get them sweating. For whatever reason it was slow it down and play neat football with Wilson that allows Latvia to recover, he was doing the fullbacks job for him. There's question marks about his attitude for me. I didn't like that moment in the first half when he turned his back on a simple pass from Mepham and the ball went out of play, then he started arguing when it was obvious Mephs was always going to play it to him there. He's never terrible but he always plays like he's not really arsed about the outcome. The ambition in his game has gone. That's in stark contrast to Neco on the other flank who's always busting a gut to make something happen. Tend to agree re Roberts. One of his best attributes was his endeavour but he seems to have lost that and seems much more reserved. He can switch off quite regularly, too. My preference is always Neco right and Davies left when available. |
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Post by fiveattheback on Mar 29, 2023 9:06:26 GMT
Connor Roberts a weird game. Refusing to try and attack the right wing. Maybe following instructions. Not enough for me There was definitely a point on about the hour mark where there was an instruction from the bench and suddenly both full backs sat much further back. Having 2 right footers on the left really slows us down out there as both will want to come inside. That's compounded by having Wildon who always drifts inside on the right meaning little width What was also strange is Roberts seemed to start further forward than Neco but was reluctant to overlap Wilson on a few occasions so we kept going inside and eventually backwards |
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Post by jbt95 on Mar 29, 2023 9:18:29 GMT
The starting XI yesterday had 443 caps prior to kick off.
An average of 40 each with Neco the least experienced on 27 caps.
Don’t tell me it’s a transitional period.
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Post by njdragon on Mar 29, 2023 9:23:26 GMT
The starting XI yesterday had 443 caps prior to kick off. An average of 40 each with Neco the least experienced on 27 caps. Don’t tell me it’s a transitional period. If you suddenly lose the core of your team in your captain bale and allen you are in a transition. |
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Post by jbt95 on Mar 29, 2023 9:25:36 GMT
The starting XI yesterday had 443 caps prior to kick off. An average of 40 each with Neco the least experienced on 27 caps. Don’t tell me it’s a transitional period. If you suddenly lose the core of your team in your captain bale and allen you are in a transition. Allen hasn’t played for us really in a year now. He missed majority of June, all of September, majority of the World Cup. Not forgetting he didn’t play in the 2020 Nations League, or the March 2021 window (he went off in the first few mins of the first WCQ.. remember?). Bale wasn’t always an ever present either. That was a vastly experienced team at international level yesterday. |
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Post by allezlesrouges on Mar 29, 2023 9:29:05 GMT
A few points;
- I felt we never got out of 3rd gear, and we never really needed to. I never felt as though we weren't in control of the game. Won it at a canter really, and I think if we had Brennan and Brooks we might have scored 2 or 3
- We put together some really good passing moves, notably that Wilson chance in the first half we were very patient and must have put together 30+ passes
- Despite keeping the ball well enough I felt like we moved it about too slowly. Lots of times we could have played a quick sharp pass wide, but instead played it through the CB/DM and then wide, and by that time Latvia had shifted over and we had to go back again. Faster play and we'd have scored more I'm sure
- Already mentioned this but the subs situation was strange to me. I get not wanting to disrupt the game and have a player been caught cold after coming on, but at a certain point lack of energy/legs is as likely to cause that. And I'd like to see a bit more trust in the squad as Cooper, Bradshaw, Jordan James, Sorba these are all Championship regulars and obvious substitutions to me - they shouldn't be caught out by Latvia. I'd understand keeping Moore on for the corners, but should have been James > Broadhead (65 mins), Wilson > Sorba (70 mins), Ramsey > Cooper (75 mins), and then maybe JJ/Bradshaw > Morrell/Moore (85 mins)
- Agree that Connor was our worst player, which surprised me given his form for Burnley - maybe it's cos he plays a different role for them?
- I stand by the fact that I don't like two right footers on the left. Don't get me wrong they were both two of our better performers, but both are trying to do the same thing cutting inside. Our goal actually comes from James shifting down the line and putting in an orthodox cross. Admittedly this problem is alleviated as soon as Davies/RND return, and I think our play will be much better when they return
- For those criticising Page I'll say this. Don't underestimate the impact of losing Bale, Allen, Gunter, Jonny and missing Davies, RND, and Johnson. As well as new coaching staff and introducing several new faces. In that context 4 points is incredible whether you think we've been lucky or not
So what's our best team on paper? If we assume Brooks gets back to the same level then I think it's this...
Ward
Neco-Meps-Rodon-Davies
Ampadu-Morrell
Brooks-Ramsey-Brennan
Moore
That team easily qualifies out of this group, and I daresay should be making a knockout stage of a tournament. I think DJ, Connor, RND, Lockyer, and Wilson are more than passable alternatives if there are any injuries. For me the goal should now be to expand this pool of players we trust in big games. Bradshaw, JJ, Cooper, these are all prime candidates
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Post by njdragon on Mar 29, 2023 9:31:17 GMT
If you suddenly lose the core of your team in your captain bale and allen you are in a transition. Allen hasn’t played for us really in months. He missed majority of June, all of September, majority of the World Cup. Bale wasn’t always an ever present either. That was a vastly experienced team at international level yesterday. He missed the world cup and the prior 2 games? all games we lost. But we were still waiting on him being back which he did but too little too late. Bale - maybe not but lets not forget Ukraine and Austria. Do we win those games without him? Maybe the first 11 you could argue but we're having to throw on broadhead, burns and cooper. |
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Post by iot on Mar 29, 2023 9:35:02 GMT
Connor Roberts a weird game. Refusing to try and attack the right wing. Maybe following instructions. Not enough for me There was definitely a point on about the hour mark where there was an instruction from the bench and suddenly both full backs sat much further back. Interesting, that's the main thing Page got wrong for me. He should have been urging the team to up the ante at that point, not sit off. That's my main concern about him going forward. I have a lot more sympathy with the lack of subs than others, although understand the point around the difference in energy levels it led to. |
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Post by jbt95 on Mar 29, 2023 9:35:34 GMT
Allen hasn’t played for us really in months. He missed majority of June, all of September, majority of the World Cup. Bale wasn’t always an ever present either. That was a vastly experienced team at international level yesterday. He missed the world cup and the prior 2 games? all games we lost. But we were still waiting on him being back which he did but too little too late. Bale - maybe not but lets not forget Ukraine and Austria. Do we win those games without him? Maybe the first 11 you could argue but we're having to throw on broadhead, burns and cooper. The results of those games aren’t the point of my post. Allen has barely played for us in 3 years now. Can’t say cause he’s retired it’s a massive shock like he played 90 mins every game. We had plenty of good results with Bale over the years too. |
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Post by njdragon on Mar 29, 2023 9:43:03 GMT
He missed the world cup and the prior 2 games? all games we lost. But we were still waiting on him being back which he did but too little too late. Bale - maybe not but lets not forget Ukraine and Austria. Do we win those games without him? Maybe the first 11 you could argue but we're having to throw on broadhead, burns and cooper. The results of those games aren’t the point of my post. Allen has barely played for us in 3 years now. Can’t say cause he’s retired it’s a massive shock like he played 90 mins every game. We had plenty of good results with Bale over the years too. He was there for ukraine and Austria June 22 - less than a year ago. He was fit for the euros. He's been our midfield playmaker for the past 10 years Don't forget the backroom staff have changed too |
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Post by allezlesrouges on Mar 29, 2023 9:45:11 GMT
The starting XI yesterday had 443 caps prior to kick off. An average of 40 each with Neco the least experienced on 27 caps. Don’t tell me it’s a transitional period. It absolutely is a transitional period, of course the starting lineup has built up a decent number of caps but they're still young. Aside from Davies & Ramsey you can't say we are vastly experienced across that XI (50-60 caps is the benchmark for that IMO) Also look at who we are bringing on. Broadhead (1 cap), Cooper (0 caps) & Cabango (5 caps) What we're our other options in midfield? JJ (1 cap), Harris (0 caps) Other options out wide? Sorba (8 caps), Burns (4 caps) Up front? Bradshaw (4 caps) In defence? Lockyer (14 caps), Fox (0 caps) To say we are not transitioning is ridiculous when we've lost 156 caps just by swapping Bale, Allen & Davies to Wilson, Morrell & Neco You can call the performances poor if you want, but the fact remains, 4 points is dreamland considering many of the Page out brigade were expecting a return to the dark days and 1 point after the first 2 games |
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Post by iot on Mar 29, 2023 9:46:20 GMT
- Despite keeping the ball well enough I felt like we moved it about too slowly. Lots of times we could have played a quick sharp pass wide, but instead played it through the CB/DM and then wide, and by that time Latvia had shifted over and we had to go back again. Faster play and we'd have scored more I'm sure I actually think we did try to play with tempo up until the 60th minute and did it reasonably well, but I see your point. The trouble is, when you have a few players in your side who just don't have that level on the ball, it makes it difficult and affects the rhythm of the whole side. I think there was a clear gulf between players who could play progressive passes through the lines and the ones that couldn't. Of the starting xi yesterday, Ramsey can obviously do it, as can Wilson. Roberts and Neco can do it, and mepham to a lesser extent. Ampadu is ok at it, although I felt he could have been a bit more progressive yesterday. For all the praise morrell gets, I felt there were quite a few occasions yesterday where the likes of Wilson and Ramsey had worked space for themselves in dangerous positions and were screaming for the ball, but you had some players like Morrell and Rodon who either wouldn't look for it or didn't have the confidence to play the ball. I think that's a significant factor in why we sometimes lack that cutting edge. |
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Post by jbt95 on Mar 29, 2023 9:57:43 GMT
The results of those games aren’t the point of my post. Allen has barely played for us in 3 years now. Can’t say cause he’s retired it’s a massive shock like he played 90 mins every game. We had plenty of good results with Bale over the years too. He was there for ukraine and Austria June 22 - less than a year ago. He was fit for the euros. He's been our midfield playmaker for the past 10 years Don't forget the backroom staff have changed too Austria was March 22. Since covid, not including friendlies - - Missed all 6 Nations League games in Autumn 2020 - Missed 2 WCQs (not including him playing v Belgium as he came off very early on) - Missed 5 of the 2022 Nations League games and went off injured in the sixth. - Didn’t play v USA and came on very late v Iran, so call it missed 2 WC games. Played in 4 Euro games, 6 WCQs, the 2 play offs and 1 World Cup game. Played in 13. Missed 15. Source www.11v11.com/players/joe-allen-226384/ |
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Post by allezlesrouges on Mar 29, 2023 10:02:05 GMT
- Despite keeping the ball well enough I felt like we moved it about too slowly. Lots of times we could have played a quick sharp pass wide, but instead played it through the CB/DM and then wide, and by that time Latvia had shifted over and we had to go back again. Faster play and we'd have scored more I'm sure I actually think we did try to play with tempo up until the 60th minute and did it reasonably well, but I see your point. The trouble is, when you have a few players in your side who just don't have that level on the ball, it makes it difficult and affects the rhythm of the whole side. I think there was a clear gulf between players who could play progressive passes through the lines and the ones that couldn't. Of the starting xi yesterday, Ramsey can obviously do it, as can Wilson. Roberts and Neco can do it, and mepham to a lesser extent. Ampadu is ok at it, although I felt he could have been a bit more progressive yesterday. For all the praise morrell gets, I felt there were quite a few occasions yesterday where the likes of Wilson and Ramsey had worked space for themselves in dangerous positions and were screaming for the ball, but you had some players like Morrell and Rodon who either wouldn't look for it or didn't have the confidence to play the ball. I think that's a significant factor in why we sometimes lack that cutting edge. 100% agree, I think the tempo was good enough until 60, but still could have been better. But you're right not everyone can do it. It's not really Morrell's game and that's the difference between him and Allen |
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Post by njdragon on Mar 29, 2023 10:03:12 GMT
He was there for ukraine and Austria June 22 - less than a year ago. He was fit for the euros. He's been our midfield playmaker for the past 10 years Don't forget the backroom staff have changed too Austria was March 22. Since covid, not including friendlies - - Missed all 6 Nations League games in Autumn 2020 - Missed 2 WCQs (not including him playing v Belgium as he came off very early on) - Missed 5 of the 2022 Nations League games and went off injured in the sixth. - Didn’t play v USA and came on very late v Iran, so call it missed 2 WC games. Played in 4 Euro games, 6 WCQs, the 2 play offs and 1 World Cup game. Played in 12. Missed 15. you missed out the fact that ukraine was june though 22. now look at the results without him and the results with him. he was famously injured pre covid again pre world cup He's integral and we have no replacement Tell me he's not a loss? |
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Post by iot on Mar 29, 2023 10:04:37 GMT
Ratings out of 10:
Ward - 7: really good showing across the two games
Roberts - 5: Very poor in both games, with mistakes leading to a couple of Croatian chances, lost the ball several times against Latvia, and his crossing was poor. He's absolutely killing it at Brunley, but we're never going to play like Burnley and perhaps this just shows his limitations in a conventional FB/WB position
Rodon&Meps - 7: Slightly shaky start from both I felt who struggled with the big CFs, but grew into the game and had a good battle with them in the end. Won plenty of challenges and were improved on the ball
Neco - 8: his best game for Wales in a while. He was our main attacking threat for a while. He's a key player for us.
Morrel and Amps - 7: similar level of performance where they did the basics well - Ampadu better at breaking down attacks and Morrell better at showing for the ball and keeping us ticking over. I would like to see Ampadu showing for the ball more often (I sometimes feel he doesn't really have the positional awareness of a midfielder to find space) and I think Morrell could do better in looking for the progressive option a little more often. Those improvements would make us a significantly improved side.
Ramsey - 6: I thought he was decent, put in one great cross for Kieffer and showed his quality on the ball, although probably didn't influence the game as much as he would have hoped.
Wilson - 8.5 (MOTM): His best game for us in a very long time. I thought he was brilliant, and to be honest I really wasn't expecting that performance from him. More of the same please.
James - 7.5: Excellent in the first half. I've seen some complaints about his end product (we all know he struggles there), but he created the goal with an excellent cross, and created two other chances. Any winger would be pleased with that in a half of football. Faded in the second half before being subbed.
Moore - 7.5: Didn't make the most of some early chances, but his header was brilliant and he had a good effort from just outside the box (which I didn't know he was capable of). Battled to the end, but looked knackered for the last 15/20.
Page - 6: Got the team selection and tactics spot on initially, but disappointing to see the conservative approach in the last 30 where we should have pressed on. Probably should have made more substitutions too. But some of the criticism he's received is both ridiculous and predictable from people who have made their minds up well before this game.
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