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Post by iot on Aug 30, 2023 10:29:24 GMT
The more I think about it, the stranger it is that we haven't taken another wide forward to replace James. If not Matondo, why not Hedges or Collins? Oli Cooper's also a strange omission.
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Post by fiveattheback on Aug 30, 2023 10:31:26 GMT
No real surprises, although not sure why we've bothered calling up Morrell and Moore when they're suspended for the competitive game. Can't see the logic in starting them against South Korea, surely it makes more sense to go with whoever we intend to start up front and partner Ampadu. Also find it slightly strange that we've left out Luke Harris - surely the friendly is a chance to actually test him out. Might be Page's way of urging him to get some senior football. Hopefully he'll be in the u21 squad later on (if not, that could be concerning). Headline obviously is that Dan James has been ruled out, and that Johnson is hopefully fit. Baffling, we drag the lad all over Europe without him getting on the pitch only to drop him for a home friendly where he could show us what he can do. Like you say, very concerning if he's not in the u21 squad, would be one hell of a fuck up from Robert Matondo could perhaps feel slightly hard done by? He's probably the closest thing we have to James in terms of pace and has played a bit for Rangers. Not sure what Cullen's done to earn a call up and the first time Harris has ever been a starter sees him dropped despite 3 in 5. |
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Post by iot on Aug 30, 2023 10:31:28 GMT
I wouldn't mind having 4 keepers if one of them was a young prospect with view of integration into the squad, but it's not that. Doesn't make any sense The only logic I can put to this is that maybe it's for training games. 2 training games going on simultaneously so we need 4 keepers. Still it doesn't explain why that 4th keeper can't be a young prospect. Maybe you could argue that it's better for them to stay at their club and play games rather than just make up the numbers for us in training but I think it would be much better to be getting them integrated into our squad early like you say. Yeah, and I think that's fair enough. Maybe it's a sign of us taking the u21 campaign seriously after a good first result against Denmark away. I suspect Colwill will be with the u21s again, and that might be why Page hasn't called up Eddie Beach. Will be interesting to see if Luke Harris goes with the u21s. |
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Post by vaulksthrowfanclub on Aug 30, 2023 10:37:30 GMT
Not only is it 4 keepers, but 4 keepers who aren’t first choice at their clubs. Owen Evans must feel hard done by with Tom King named ahead of him again, particularly given King’s move to Wolves where he’s now 3rd choice.
Nice to see Sheehan called up as another midfield option, I’d have also called up Savage and Terry Taylor (if fit enough). Moore and Morrell’s inclusions just don’t make sense.
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Post by hooky on Aug 30, 2023 10:52:05 GMT
Par for the course for Page. Never know why I expect him to call up different players each time to be the silver bullet to get us out this situation but we don't have any of them anyway. Oh its about loyalty vms Did not work in the world cup, or games since, but its got to work at some point ... I would do a better job. You need energy in the team and you need to pick players in form. Look at that squad Wales squad: Hennessey, Ward, King, B Davies, Fox, Rodon, Cabango, Mepham, Lockyer, N Williams, Roberts, Burns, Ampadu, Sheehan, J James, Morrell, Wilson, Ramsey, Moore, Broadhead, Johnson, Brooks, Bradshaw, Cullen. All due respect - we are losing 1-0 to Latvia - so you have restricted yourself to Bradshaw (mmm), Cullen (ffs - nowhere near international level!) or Broadhead (he is ok but average). All ordinary and not exactly game changers I would not have selected them last season but there are signs that Colwill and Matando are showing great form. Colwill just has class and vision and Matando has incredible pace. What the @@@@ does Page get paid for. Any moron can keep picking the same players each squad - his job is to pick options off the bench - Colwill and Matando give you options that those others as individuals or a collective just don't I never want this but if we are drawing with Latvia with 1 min to go is it not better that we lose so that hopefully they get shot of Page and have a better chance of winning through the play offs. He is a complete joke |
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Post by hooky on Aug 30, 2023 10:52:51 GMT
Thanks Page - zero pace and little creativity You really deserve your salary  |
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Post by hooky on Aug 30, 2023 10:54:13 GMT
No real surprises, although not sure why we've bothered calling up Morrell and Moore when they're suspended for the competitive game. Can't see the logic in starting them against South Korea, surely it makes more sense to go with whoever we intend to start up front and partner Ampadu. Also find it slightly strange that we've left out Luke Harris - surely the friendly is a chance to actually test him out. Might be Page's way of urging him to get some senior football. Hopefully he'll be in the u21 squad later on (if not, that could be concerning). Headline obviously is that Dan James has been ruled out, and that Johnson is hopefully fit. not sure why we've bothered calling up Morrell and Moore when they're suspended for the competitive game I forgot about that. FFS - seriously he is clueless. |
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Post by hooky on Aug 30, 2023 10:58:37 GMT
Don't forget Luke can play for our neighbours across the sea. Great if Page has messed that one up.
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Post by fiveattheback on Aug 30, 2023 11:01:01 GMT
Don't forget Luke can play for our neighbours across the sea. Great if Page has messed that one up. It looks like he'll be in the u21s I agree with what you said above, Matondo & Colwill offer something different to the players we've picked and seem to be picking up some kind of form The Cullen call up surprises me, as much as Mark Harris is a bit crap and gets stick, he at least has played and scored this season. I know it's League 1 but have any of the strikers called up scored this season? |
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Post by 1gwaunview on Aug 30, 2023 11:04:46 GMT
Not optimistic, and an uphill task to qualify. Surprised Hedges wasn't included in the squad (Is there a spat there with Page?). Same old story of no goalie playing games for their club. Why doesn't at least one of them move to where they get regular club starts, even if at a lower division? Money I suppose.
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Post by hooky on Aug 30, 2023 11:05:56 GMT
Its totally wrong but the only reason to pick Moore and Morrell is to save your own job. If you hopefully sneak a draw versus South Korea then you may get away with a poor result versus South Korea
Say what you will about Giggs - he would use that friendly to integrate and see what younger players could do
Please lets get rid - have seen enough. This is pointless. That squad is just asking for a bad result versus Latvia. You watch - his game plan is probably to defend against them and try to score on the counter. He is a complete fraud
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Post by allezlesrouges on Aug 30, 2023 11:16:43 GMT
King ➡️ Evans
Morrell ➡️ Savage
Moore ➡️ Hedges
Other than that it's a fairly standard squad. The main errors for me is not selecting a GK for the future instead of King, and using 2 friendly spaces on established players instead of trying someone new out
Glad Sheehan is in, and hope he starts against Korea
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Post by hooky on Aug 30, 2023 11:17:55 GMT
Oh and Luke Harris came off the bench last need and seemed to play well for Fulham (albeit I did not see) but obviously Page's sharp analytical mind knows best. Honestly - its so easy to undermine something built up over almost a decade by one bad appointment at the top. How long will this go on?
PS - I know I am ranting and will stop now but he just seems so rigid and he keeps picking the same squad - most of which are made of mediocre players. When a player shows a spark / has a point of difference we need to have fluidity in terms of the squad - this is elite sport!
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Post by allezlesrouges on Aug 30, 2023 11:22:05 GMT
Oh and Luke Harris came off the bench last need and seemed to play well for Fulham (albeit I did not see) but obviously Page's sharp analytical mind knows best. Honestly - its so easy to undermine something built up over almost a decade by one bad appointment at the top. How long will this go on? PS - I know I am ranting and will stop now but he just seems so rigid and he keeps picking the same squad - most of which are made of mediocre players. When a player shows a spark / has a point of difference we need to have fluidity in terms of the squad - this is elite sport! I don't think the omission of Luke Harris is the big deal you're making it out to be. I'd have liked to see him play a friendly sure, but he's better off with the u21s, and isn't a miss for the seniors until he does something at that level A lot of people are very angry about the squad, but as usual they would more than likely pick the exact same squad with 2 or 3 changes, most of whom wouldn't impact the starting XI anyway - which in my opinion is nothing to get worked up over |
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Post by hooky on Aug 30, 2023 11:27:39 GMT
Oh and Luke Harris came off the bench last need and seemed to play well for Fulham (albeit I did not see) but obviously Page's sharp analytical mind knows best. Honestly - its so easy to undermine something built up over almost a decade by one bad appointment at the top. How long will this go on? PS - I know I am ranting and will stop now but he just seems so rigid and he keeps picking the same squad - most of which are made of mediocre players. When a player shows a spark / has a point of difference we need to have fluidity in terms of the squad - this is elite sport! I don't think the omission of Luke Harris is the big deal you're making it out to be. I'd have liked to see him play a friendly sure, but he's better off with the u21s, and isn't a miss for the seniors until he does something at that level A lot of people are very angry about the squad, but as usual they would more than likely pick the exact same squad with 2 or 3 changes, most of whom wouldn't impact the starting XI anyway - which in my opinion is nothing to get worked up over The bench options are so one dimensional / uninspiring though right? Colwill and Matando should be there instead of two of those attacking players. Cullen over Matando - you are having a laugh. Colwill when he is fit and firing should be there end of. Only one of Bradshaw or Broadhead. Seriously - you look at that bench and realise how rigid we are going to be and Latvia are really going to fancy there chances, especially if they are in the game or winning with 25 mins to go |
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Post by jonathandearth on Aug 30, 2023 11:40:16 GMT
Why has Adam Davies been dropped? Thought Hennessey was injured. Ward is 3 or 4th choice at Leicester. King 3rd choice. At least AD may get a game tonight in EFL Cup - within 10 days of upcoming matches. He'd be my current first choice.
I thought Joe Morrell was suspended for 2 matches?
Ryan Hedges is unlucky not to be picked - starting every match at the moment - I'd have him ahead of Cullen.
Matondo is a call but borderline. Hope Tom Lawrence gets fit, we need some left wingers to choose from.
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Post by garynysmon on Aug 30, 2023 11:44:00 GMT
I'm as depressed as anyone about Page but I also look at that squad and all I can think about is how we all need to recalibrate our expectations. This is approaching Northern Ireland levels of squad depth and some departments look very bare indeed.
Let's be honest, we get excited about the smallest achievement by anyone remotely promising, but the fact is that there's no one coming through and we're calling up Championship lads approaching 30.
Ireland and Scotland have genuine Premier League players coming through, but we're going nowhere.
It is what it is but we're not as strong a side as we like to think we are any more.
If anything it probably emphasises the need for a decent coach who will get the maximum out of a relatively limited squad of players. There's no Gareth Bale to paper over the cracks any more or rescue us when we're being outplayed.
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Post by eppingblue1 on Aug 30, 2023 11:56:39 GMT
I'm as depressed as anyone about Page but I also look at that squad and all I can think about is how we all need to recalibrate our expectations. This is approaching Northern Ireland levels of squad depth. Let's be honest, we get excited about the smallest achievement by anyone remotely promising, but the fact is that there's no one coming through and we're calling up Championship lads approaching 30. Ireland and Scotland have genuine Premier League players coming through, but we're going nowhere. It is what it is but we're not as strong a side as we like to think we are any more. Absolutely spot on. Our biggest chance of qualifying for Germany, now almost certainly via the play offs, lies with persuading Gareth Bale to come out of retirement. |
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Post by iot on Aug 30, 2023 12:18:23 GMT
Par for the course for Page. Never know why I expect him to call up different players each time to be the silver bullet to get us out this situation but we don't have any of them anyway. Oh its about loyalty vms Did not work in the world cup, or games since, but its got to work at some point ... I would do a better job. You need energy in the team and you need to pick players in form. Look at that squad Wales squad: Hennessey, Ward, King, B Davies, Fox, Rodon, Cabango, Mepham, Lockyer, N Williams, Roberts, Burns, Ampadu, Sheehan, J James, Morrell, Wilson, Ramsey, Moore, Broadhead, Johnson, Brooks, Bradshaw, Cullen. All due respect - we are losing 1-0 to Latvia - so you have restricted yourself to Bradshaw (mmm), Cullen (ffs - nowhere near international level!) or Broadhead (he is ok but average). All ordinary and not exactly game changers I would not have selected them last season but there are signs that Colwill and Matando are showing great form. Colwill just has class and vision and Matando has incredible pace. What the @@@@ does Page get paid for. Any moron can keep picking the same players each squad - his job is to pick options off the bench - Colwill and Matando give you options that those others as individuals or a collective just don't I never want this but if we are drawing with Latvia with 1 min to go is it not better that we lose so that hopefully they get shot of Page and have a better chance of winning through the play offs. He is a complete joke Struggling to follow some of this - 'so you have restricted yourself to Bradshaw (mmm), Cullen (ffs - nowhere near international level!) or Broadhead (he is ok but average)' - are you talking about off the bench options? Yeah I definitely think we should have taken another forward, but I think it would be the wrong time to recall Colwill - who's only just starting to find his feet after a really poor season, so I'd prefer that he continues to knuckle down and be the main man for the u21s. I don't think it's a massive shock that Matondo (who still hasn't started a league game this season let's not forget) is excluded, I think he has a lot mor to prove - a decent argument could be made for or against, but I do think it's a mistake not to bring in a replacement for James - Hedges would have been the other obvious candidate. So I take your point that the bench will be pretty shocking, but even had a Matondo or Hedges been called up, the likes of Broadhead and Bradshaw would probably have had stronger claims to be the impact sub options. So I'm not sure this reaction is warranted tbh |
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Post by janglingjack on Aug 30, 2023 12:25:33 GMT
Feels like old times doesn't it,we had out amazing moment in the sun but now we are back to the national team we have all been used to most of our supporting lives,only with alot less top flight players,which is worrying.
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Post by CrackityJones on Aug 30, 2023 12:26:00 GMT
Maybe the plan is to replace Moore and Morrell after the friendly? Still doesn’t make sense to not include those replacements from the start so they bed into the camp
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Post by dai on Aug 30, 2023 12:27:43 GMT
Not sure where to start on this squad......echoing what most have said already on here.
Where is Harris after being called up to almost every squad over the last year? Perfect chance against Korea.
Why even bother with Morrell and Moore? They can only play against Korea, but surely this is a chance for others?
Lack of width in the team. Why not Hedges or Matondo to cover James' absence?
What exactly has Cullen done to deserve a call up now?
Why call up Sheehan over someone like Charlie Savage who's started VERY well in League 1.
I lost faith in Page a while ago, but I despair even further with things like this. Thank f*ck I can't be bothered with Korea.
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Post by hooky on Aug 30, 2023 12:34:03 GMT
Oh its about loyalty vms Did not work in the world cup, or games since, but its got to work at some point ... I would do a better job. You need energy in the team and you need to pick players in form. Look at that squad Wales squad: Hennessey, Ward, King, B Davies, Fox, Rodon, Cabango, Mepham, Lockyer, N Williams, Roberts, Burns, Ampadu, Sheehan, J James, Morrell, Wilson, Ramsey, Moore, Broadhead, Johnson, Brooks, Bradshaw, Cullen. All due respect - we are losing 1-0 to Latvia - so you have restricted yourself to Bradshaw (mmm), Cullen (ffs - nowhere near international level!) or Broadhead (he is ok but average). All ordinary and not exactly game changers I would not have selected them last season but there are signs that Colwill and Matando are showing great form. Colwill just has class and vision and Matando has incredible pace. What the @@@@ does Page get paid for. Any moron can keep picking the same players each squad - his job is to pick options off the bench - Colwill and Matando give you options that those others as individuals or a collective just don't I never want this but if we are drawing with Latvia with 1 min to go is it not better that we lose so that hopefully they get shot of Page and have a better chance of winning through the play offs. He is a complete joke Struggling to follow some of this - 'so you have restricted yourself to Bradshaw (mmm), Cullen (ffs - nowhere near international level!) or Broadhead (he is ok but average)' - are you talking about off the bench options? Yeah I definitely think we should have taken another forward, but I think it would be the wrong time to recall Colwill - who's only just starting to find his feet after a really poor season, so I'd prefer that he continues to knuckle down and be the main man for the u21s. I don't think it's a massive shock that Matondo (who still hasn't started a league game this season let's not forget) is excluded, I think he has a lot mor to prove - a decent argument could be made for or against, but I do think it's a mistake not to bring in a replacement for James - Hedges would have been the other obvious candidate. So I take your point that the bench will be pretty shocking, but even had a Matondo or Hedges been called up, the likes of Broadhead and Bradshaw would probably have had stronger claims to be the impact sub options. So I'm not sure this reaction is warranted tbh Respect your opinion and the fact that Colwill and Matando are finding their feet but they have shown good, very decisive moments and that is all we need from a bench. Latvia are 1-0 up against us - you'd prefer Colwill to innovate something - first time shot or first time pass. We are 1-0 up and Latvia are coming at us - Matando's pace on the break (other side to Brennan or even replacing him late on) would concern Latvia. Those other bench option just don't have that do they? You may have seen Cullen, Bradshaw and Broadhead far more than me but when I have seen them they do not produce special moments. Broadhead's goal versus Croatia was great but it was poor from Croatia not to mark him. I am not arguing about him as one of the bench options - but we need variety and the fact Page does not seem to recognise that really confirms to my mind that he is hapless as a coach. Just my opinion and I may be totally wrong but I am not looking forward to Latvia! |
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Post by iot on Aug 30, 2023 12:41:51 GMT
Struggling to follow some of this - 'so you have restricted yourself to Bradshaw (mmm), Cullen (ffs - nowhere near international level!) or Broadhead (he is ok but average)' - are you talking about off the bench options? Yeah I definitely think we should have taken another forward, but I think it would be the wrong time to recall Colwill - who's only just starting to find his feet after a really poor season, so I'd prefer that he continues to knuckle down and be the main man for the u21s. I don't think it's a massive shock that Matondo (who still hasn't started a league game this season let's not forget) is excluded, I think he has a lot mor to prove - a decent argument could be made for or against, but I do think it's a mistake not to bring in a replacement for James - Hedges would have been the other obvious candidate. So I take your point that the bench will be pretty shocking, but even had a Matondo or Hedges been called up, the likes of Broadhead and Bradshaw would probably have had stronger claims to be the impact sub options. So I'm not sure this reaction is warranted tbh Respect your opinion and the fact that Colwill and Matando are finding their feet but they have shown good, very decisive moments and that is all we need from a bench. Latvia are 1-0 up against us - you'd prefer Colwill to innovate something - first time shot or first time pass. We are 1-0 up and Latvia are coming at us - Matando's pace on the break (other side to Brennan or even replacing him late on) would concern Latvia. Those other bench option just don't have that do they? You may have seen Cullen, Bradshaw and Broadhead far more than me but when I have seen them they do not produce special moments. Broadhead's goal versus Croatia was great but it was poor from Croatia not to mark him. I am not arguing about him as one of the bench options - but we need variety and the fact Page does not seem to recognise that really confirms to my mind that he is hapless as a coach. Just my opinion and I may be totally wrong but I am not looking forward to Latvia! I don't necessarily disagree with a lot of that, but I just think that a lot of people's hate for Page has grown to the point where they respond 10 times more dramatically to marginal calls (that they happen to disagree with) than is perhaps warranted. I've seen some shouts for Mark Harris for example - I shudder to think what the reaction would have been had he been recalled (even though I think he had a decent case for selection). I think it's just reached the point where a lot of people have lost any sense of balance. Concerningly, I'm pretty sure that sort of sentiment will come out in the crowd on Thursday and in the remaining home qualifiers should the poor results continue. |
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Post by jimbo82 on Aug 30, 2023 13:02:25 GMT
No real surprises, although not sure why we've bothered calling up Morrell and Moore when they're suspended for the competitive game. Can't see the logic in starting them against South Korea, surely it makes more sense to go with whoever we intend to start up front and partner Ampadu. Also find it slightly strange that we've left out Luke Harris - surely the friendly is a chance to actually test him out. Might be Page's way of urging him to get some senior football. Hopefully he'll be in the u21 squad later on (if not, that could be concerning). Headline obviously is that Dan James has been ruled out, and that Johnson is hopefully fit. not sure why we've bothered calling up Morrell and Moore when they're suspended for the competitive game I forgot about that. FFS - seriously he is clueless. I might be completely wrong, but is it possibly the case that Morrell and Moore have to be called up to the squad to serve their suspension. As opposed to not being picked on form. This happened to me in championship manager 97 but no idea if it's true in the real world |
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Post by marsvolta on Aug 30, 2023 13:05:45 GMT
I realise I’m on my own with this but I think it’s a good idea to include Morrell and Moore, even if they can only play one of the games. Let’s face it, they’re senior players and the Korea friendly is prep for the whole campaign in general, not only prep for the Latvia game.
If Korea was a stand alone friendly then they’d be selected, so I don’t why we should not select them just because there is another game to play afterwards. They probably won’t even travel to Latvia but as regular squad members it’s a good idea to keep them involved.
The four keepers thing is almost certainly as a back up in case Wayne doesn’t make it, agree that it would be better to bring a youngster in though.
Think Matondo can consider himself unlucky
No point commenting on Harris, Savage or Colwill’s omissions until we see the u21 squad.
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Post by jimexotic on Aug 30, 2023 13:13:28 GMT
The keeper situation is dire and a massive concern but I'm not sure what else Page can do at the moment although calling up a kid for squad experience wouldn't a bad idea rather than the same guys each time, they're not going to all play.
Defence is where I think we're probably strongest now if they're assembled properly and the team is set up right, can't fault his selection here.
I wouldn't have called up Morrell, he's suspended for a game and last time out against Latvia he came on and nearly threw it away for us, he hasn't exactly covered himself in glory since then. Slightly unpopular opinion but I don't really see the point in calling up Sheehan.
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Post by hooky on Aug 30, 2023 13:23:25 GMT
Josh Sheehan is 29 in March
He plays effectively in the third division.
He is what he is and is not going to transform into a top quality player
If we are using him in the next year or two then we are in big, big trouble
Would rather have a kid with potential such as Luke Harris than him. He may not kick on but he is 18, is a prolific goal scoring midfielder at youth level and has played a few minutes off the bench for Fulham. he is on the periphery of things but there is a 'chance' he may get to a decent level and contribute positively to Wales but lets face it Sheehan never will.
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Post by garynysmon on Aug 30, 2023 13:33:54 GMT
The four keepers thing is almost certainly as a back up in case Wayne doesn’t make it, agree that it would be better to bring a youngster in though. Although correct, that's one of the most depressing pars I've ever read on Apostle. Hoping that Nottingham Forest's 36 year old 3rd choice keeper can make it. Has it really come to this? Fuck it, call up George Ratcliffe of Pontypridd or something. |
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Post by vaulksthrowfanclub on Aug 30, 2023 13:41:44 GMT
Josh Sheehan is 29 in March He plays effectively in the third division. He is what he is and is not going to transform into a top quality player If we are using him in the next year or two then we are in big, big trouble Would rather have a kid with potential such as Luke Harris than him. He may not kick on but he is 18, is a prolific goal scoring midfielder at youth level and has played a few minutes off the bench for Fulham. he is on the periphery of things but there is a 'chance' he may get to a decent level and contribute positively to Wales but lets face it Sheehan never will. I’d have called up Luke, but not in place of Sheehan. Different positions, Josh plays deeper than Luke. |
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