The Manager Situation

[erasedcitizen]

Big decisions to make ahead of the nations league. You feel whoever leads us into those games remains our manager for the all-important World Cup campaign. Assumung we stick with a Welsh manager, some of the options we have are as follows:

Robert Page - Already under contract, appears to have good rapport with the players and is easily the cheapest option as we'd have to pay him off if sacked. Has lost a lot of confidence from the fanbase after last night however and is clearly limited tactically. Holds stock with a number of supporters due to guiding us to a World Cup.

Osian Roberts - Was a vital part of our most successful era and knows the setup inside-out, and what it takes for a team to be successful on the main-stage. Served as technical director to Morocco until mid 2021, ahead of their highly successful world cup. Enjoying a successful season as caretaker manager of Como in Serie B.

There probably isn't a realistic option with better pedigree. Likely to be available after this season but unlikely to be short of offers, though the Wales job is his dream job. Would be my choice.

Craig Bellamy - Assistant at Burnley, could find himself out of a job if Kompany gets the chop. Supposedly impressed the FAW when applying previously, though won't exactly be a 'yes-man' to the FAW. Unexperienced in management, and may need a decent salary to sway him here if Kompany tries to keep him with him.

Steve Cooper - No doubt very qualified, but likely too expensive and will land a job in the top 2 English tiers. Has also spoken out againstthe national side which wouldn't favour the fanbase or FAW

Rob Edwards - Way too costly now.

Nathan Jones - Only really achieved success at Luton and is not known for playing a pretty style of football. Would likely alienate the fanbase unless we were consistently churning out good results and qualifying. Potentially pricey too, he's in a job at Charlton but that's a poisoned chalice of a job. Has also said some unsavoury things about the national side in the past. I'd give him a hard swerve.

Other 'options' - Kit Symonds, Chris Coleman, Mark Hughes or another former player with coaching badges. The 'other' list gets very grim, I wouldn't entertain any of these options.

[dai]

One can only hope there's a clause in Page's contract which means he can be let go if we failed to qualify for the Euro's.

I don't know who the best alternative option is, however I do think Page has done all he can now. I haven't seen any evidence of a manager who is improving on the job, nor actually improving the team. Same questionable decisions again last night. Same old same old complaints. I'm not buying his constant excuses of squad in transition. Most of the starting 11 last night have been regulars for 3 years or more.

Time for a change, but who, I don't know.

[jono]

Page not starting the most in form player going in Dan James in either game is bordering on scandalous. We need a manager with some obvious nous.

[saturn9]

Mar 27, 2024 11:01:40 GMT erasedcitizen said:

Big decisions to make ahead of the nations league. You feel whoever leads us into those games remains our manager for the all-important World Cup campaign. Assumung we stick with a Welsh manager, some of the options we have are as follows:

Robert Page - Already under contract, appears to have good rapport with the players and is easily the cheapest option as we'd have to pay him off if sacked. Has lost a lot of confidence from the fanbase after last night however and is clearly limited tactically. Holds stock with a number of supporters due to guiding us to a World Cup.

Osian Roberts - Was a vital part of our most successful era and knows the setup inside-out, and what it takes for a team to be successful on the main-stage. Served as technical director to Morocco until mid 2021, ahead of their highly successful world cup. Enjoying a successful season as caretaker manager of Como in Serie B.

There probably isn't a realistic option with better pedigree. Likely to be available after this season but unlikely to be short of offers, though the Wales job is his dream job. Would be my choice.

Craig Bellamy - Assistant at Burnley, could find himself out of a job if Kompany gets the chop. Supposedly impressed the FAW when applying previously, though won't exactly be a 'yes-man' to the FAW. Unexperienced in management, and may need a decent salary to sway him here if Kompany tries to keep him with him.

Steve Cooper - No doubt very qualified, but likely too expensive and will land a job in the top 2 English tiers. Has also spoken out againstthe national side which wouldn't favour the fanbase or FAW

Rob Edwards - Way too costly now.

Nathan Jones - Only really achieved success at Luton and is not known for playing a pretty style of football. Would likely alienate the fanbase unless we were consistently churning out good results and qualifying. Potentially pricey too, he's in a job at Charlton but that's a poisoned chalice of a job. Has also said some unsavoury things about the national side in the past. I'd give him a hard swerve.

Other 'options' - Kit Symonds, Chris Coleman, Mark Hughes or another former player with coaching badges. The 'other' list gets very grim, I wouldn't entertain any of these options.

What did Cooper say re Cymru, was it when he was at Forest and Page's/Faw inability not to communicate the extent of Beck's withdrawal??

Osisan and Bellers for me.


Failing that a Graham Potter type from the Continent/Scandinavia🤔🤔

[vvm]

I think Page probably did well enough over the last couple of games that his job is just about secure. I do agree that he might have come as far as he can and we won't really kick on from here but it's hard to say who might be an improvement.

We haven't been terrible under Page either. He has had a few tactical "masterclasses" - Turkey at Euro 2020, Austria and Ukraine in the world cup playoffs and Croatia at home recently to name a few. His major stumbling block is he quite often has no idea how to change a game when things aren't going right. There generally is never a plan B.

I would suggest a more realistic option would be to have another reshuffle of the backroom staff. I wouldn't expect any manager to work it all out on their own, he needs support from those around him and have people focused on analysing specific parts of the game ready to present him with suggestions and options for what he should change.

Would Osain be open to coming in as assistant manager or do we think he probably has his sights set on being the main man?

[saturn9]

Mar 27, 2024 11:18:26 GMT saturn9 said:

Mar 27, 2024 11:01:40 GMT erasedcitizen said:

Big decisions to make ahead of the nations league. You feel whoever leads us into those games remains our manager for the all-important World Cup campaign. Assumung we stick with a Welsh manager, some of the options we have are as follows:

Robert Page - Already under contract, appears to have good rapport with the players and is easily the cheapest option as we'd have to pay him off if sacked. Has lost a lot of confidence from the fanbase after last night however and is clearly limited tactically. Holds stock with a number of supporters due to guiding us to a World Cup.

Osian Roberts - Was a vital part of our most successful era and knows the setup inside-out, and what it takes for a team to be successful on the main-stage. Served as technical director to Morocco until mid 2021, ahead of their highly successful world cup. Enjoying a successful season as caretaker manager of Como in Serie B.

There probably isn't a realistic option with better pedigree. Likely to be available after this season but unlikely to be short of offers, though the Wales job is his dream job. Would be my choice.

Craig Bellamy - Assistant at Burnley, could find himself out of a job if Kompany gets the chop. Supposedly impressed the FAW when applying previously, though won't exactly be a 'yes-man' to the FAW. Unexperienced in management, and may need a decent salary to sway him here if Kompany tries to keep him with him.

Steve Cooper - No doubt very qualified, but likely too expensive and will land a job in the top 2 English tiers. Has also spoken out againstthe national side which wouldn't favour the fanbase or FAW

Rob Edwards - Way too costly now.

Nathan Jones - Only really achieved success at Luton and is not known for playing a pretty style of football. Would likely alienate the fanbase unless we were consistently churning out good results and qualifying. Potentially pricey too, he's in a job at Charlton but that's a poisoned chalice of a job. Has also said some unsavoury things about the national side in the past. I'd give him a hard swerve.

Other 'options' - Kit Symonds, Chris Coleman, Mark Hughes or another former player with coaching badges. The 'other' list gets very grim, I wouldn't entertain any of these options.

What did Cooper say re Cymru, was it when he was at Forest and Page's/Faw inability not to communicate the extent of Neco's withdrawal??

Osisan and Bellers for me.


Failing that a Graham Potter type from the Continent/Scandinavia🤔🤔

[fiveattheback]

I think now probably is the time to move on, I can't see Page taking us any further. Thank him for stepping up in extremely difficult circumstances but it's time to move in a different direction

[talyfan]

Wouldn't get rid of Page for the hell of it. I would however if some is available and theres more of guarantee they could do a better job then yes.

Don't think we're in a position to take a punt on some unknowns

[playslikeiniesta]

I would consider all options apart from Page staying. He has to go. The current squad we have feels like a pretty good one but it will be wasted if we don’t make a managerial change.

[welshrover]

Mar 27, 2024 11:01:40 GMT erasedcitizen said:

Big decisions to make ahead of the nations league. You feel whoever leads us into those games remains our manager for the all-important World Cup campaign. Assumung we stick with a Welsh manager, some of the options we have are as follows:

Robert Page - Already under contract, appears to have good rapport with the players and is easily the cheapest option as we'd have to pay him off if sacked. Has lost a lot of confidence from the fanbase after last night however and is clearly limited tactically. Holds stock with a number of supporters due to guiding us to a World Cup.

Osian Roberts - Was a vital part of our most successful era and knows the setup inside-out, and what it takes for a team to be successful on the main-stage. Served as technical director to Morocco until mid 2021, ahead of their highly successful world cup. Enjoying a successful season as caretaker manager of Como in Serie B.

There probably isn't a realistic option with better pedigree. Likely to be available after this season but unlikely to be short of offers, though the Wales job is his dream job. Would be my choice.

Craig Bellamy - Assistant at Burnley, could find himself out of a job if Kompany gets the chop. Supposedly impressed the FAW when applying previously, though won't exactly be a 'yes-man' to the FAW. Unexperienced in management, and may need a decent salary to sway him here if Kompany tries to keep him with him.

Steve Cooper - No doubt very qualified, but likely too expensive and will land a job in the top 2 English tiers. Has also spoken out againstthe national side which wouldn't favour the fanbase or FAW

Rob Edwards - Way too costly now.

Nathan Jones - Only really achieved success at Luton and is not known for playing a pretty style of football. Would likely alienate the fanbase unless we were consistently churning out good results and qualifying. Potentially pricey too, he's in a job at Charlton but that's a poisoned chalice of a job. Has also said some unsavoury things about the national side in the past. I'd give him a hard swerve.

Other 'options' - Kit Symonds, Chris Coleman, Mark Hughes or another former player with coaching badges. The 'other' list gets very grim, I wouldn't entertain any of these options.

You forgot Tony Pullis....and with good reason 🙂

[ddirpytnop]

I wouldn't replace him unless we are certain that there is someone demonstrably better who is willing to take the job. Very few of the candidates mentioned seem to fulfill that criterion. Amongst other things, sacking him will annoy the players with whom he seems to have a genuine emotional connection. That is very hard to replace but an absolute necessity if we are to progress. I don't have a problem with Page's squad selections (the abuse he gets for not picking some has-been/never-been who happened to score in league 1 etc last weekend is beyond a joke) or the way he sets up the team generally, and his passion for Cymru and our national team can't be doubted. But... and it's a big 'but'....his unwillingness to change formation, tactics and personnel in response to what's happening on the pitch seem to be a recurring flaw. Maybe what he needs is a tactically shrewd assistant with the necessary authority to advise/tell him when changes need to be made in-game.

[surge]

It's very disappointing not to qualify but (aside from Broadhead's 90+3 goal) I think we were a bit unlucky overall on top of our frailties being exposed a bit at critical times (4-1-4-1 was a disaster against Armenia but we lacked options for second sitting midfielder, Turkey were not great in both games but our injuries and their dodgy penalty allowed them to pick up 4 points while they turned 1 point into 3 Latvia away in 90+5 minutes), and then there is a usual mix of lack of depth and fresh process of team in transition.

Yes, I do agree it's a team in transition and this process is still ongoing. Our main players going into the World Cup were probably Hennessey, Allen, Ramsey, Bale and Moore but now we're coming out with only Moore playing a serious part in the qualification campaign and the process of moving on from him has started.

Davies, Danny Ward and Connor aside, we have a core of players 26 years and younger who are about to enter a more difficult qualification campaign. We don't really have enough of them either so we're looking at some of the younger lads picking up the gauntlet in a similar way to Jordan James, Neco and Ampadu.

I don't know if Page is the answer although I would argue we finished the campaign much stronger than when we started. I thought last night was a huge moment and we missed out (Brennan and Moore starting is questionable in my book), but do we give him the chance to complete the transition phase, can we afford to get rid and who next if not Page?

[zserty]

Quite simply he has to go. He is a poor manager who has no tactical nous whatsoever.

[allezlesrouges]

I do think that if we want to be getting into the top 2 in any given group a back 5 is too passive. We've put in some really good performances using it, don't get me wrong. But if you look at all the sides that qualified for the tournament only 9/24 play a wing back system?. Netherlands & Portugal aren't that comparable to us anyway, so only 7 sides around our level got through using it

*Netherlands 5-3-2*
*Portugal 3-4-3*
Scotland 3-4-3
Hungary 3-4-3
Switzerland 3-4-3
Serbia 3-4-3
Poland 3-5-2
Czechia 3-5-2
Georgia 3-5-2

I just think if we want to push on we need to make the most of our strengths, which is clearly the attacking part of the pitch. We've got good defenders too, so I'd like to see someone like Bellamy to get the most out of this squad

Although I'm not completely against keeping Page, he's done enough in my book to stay even if he has his limitations

Praying for a kind draw for the World Cup, feels like a long time since we could say we've had a nice draw

[morg]

As most on here seems to be saying, it's Page's in-game management that's the main issue. The answer last time seemed to be to replace some of his coaching team. For one reason or another, we seem to be back to jobs for the boys and it's debatable as to how much wise counsel he has around him.

[freddyboioi]

I would also add Daniel Farke as someone to consider, especially if Leeds ever get rid of him. Honeymoon periods get forgotten quickly when nosediving in the Prem, as he found at Norwich. We have exactly the type of players Farke can bring the best out of with his dynamic, fluid and attacking style of football. It’s exciting to watch. Massive mutual respect between him and Ampadu too which has allowed Amps to finally excel. Ambitious as it may be, I’d even consider approaching Farke and Leeds about him doing the Wales job part time. Lower wage also due to part time basis.

[surge]

Mar 27, 2024 13:31:37 GMT freddyboioi said:

I would also add Daniel Farke as someone to consider, especially if Leeds ever get rid of him. Honeymoon periods get forgotten quickly when nosediving in the Prem, as he found at Norwich. We have exactly the type of players Farke can bring the best out of with his dynamic, fluid and attacking style of football. It’s exciting to watch. Massive mutual respect between him and Ampadu too which has allowed Amps to finally excel. Ambitious as it may be, I’d even consider approaching Farke and Leeds about him doing the Wales job part time. Lower wage also due to part time basis.

It's not ambitious to ask to borrow a premier league manager and have at most 20% of his attention levels.

People don't like Page's backroom staff on paper but we have got better since the changes mid-campaign. Also, when people give examples of poor in-game management, they tend to hark back to a time when the current Arsenal assistant was a key part of things.

[winsumluzsum]

Mar 27, 2024 13:36:28 GMT surge said:

Mar 27, 2024 13:31:37 GMT freddyboioi said:

I would also add Daniel Farke as someone to consider, especially if Leeds ever get rid of him. Honeymoon periods get forgotten quickly when nosediving in the Prem, as he found at Norwich. We have exactly the type of players Farke can bring the best out of with his dynamic, fluid and attacking style of football. It’s exciting to watch. Massive mutual respect between him and Ampadu too which has allowed Amps to finally excel. Ambitious as it may be, I’d even consider approaching Farke and Leeds about him doing the Wales job part time. Lower wage also due to part time basis.

It's not ambitious to ask to borrow a premier league manager and have at most 20% of his attention levels.

People don't like Page's backroom staff on paper but we have got better since the changes mid-campaign. Also, when people give examples of poor in-game management, they tend to hark back to a time when the current Arsenal assistant was a key part of things.

I think the poor in-game management has been a continual theme including in this campaign. There's nothing to suggest Page is improving in this regard. Whether that's a sufficient reason to get rid of him is another matter. The only realistic alternative I'd consider is Osian.

[winsumluzsum]

Mar 27, 2024 11:01:40 GMT erasedcitizen said:

Big decisions to make ahead of the nations league. You feel whoever leads us into those games remains our manager for the all-important World Cup campaign. Assumung we stick with a Welsh manager, some of the options we have are as follows:

Robert Page - Already under contract, appears to have good rapport with the players and is easily the cheapest option as we'd have to pay him off if sacked. Has lost a lot of confidence from the fanbase after last night however and is clearly limited tactically. Holds stock with a number of supporters due to guiding us to a World Cup.

Osian Roberts - Was a vital part of our most successful era and knows the setup inside-out, and what it takes for a team to be successful on the main-stage. Served as technical director to Morocco until mid 2021, ahead of their highly successful world cup. Enjoying a successful season as caretaker manager of Como in Serie B.

There probably isn't a realistic option with better pedigree. Likely to be available after this season but unlikely to be short of offers, though the Wales job is his dream job. Would be my choice.

Craig Bellamy - Assistant at Burnley, could find himself out of a job if Kompany gets the chop. Supposedly impressed the FAW when applying previously, though won't exactly be a 'yes-man' to the FAW. Unexperienced in management, and may need a decent salary to sway him here if Kompany tries to keep him with him.

Steve Cooper - No doubt very qualified, but likely too expensive and will land a job in the top 2 English tiers. Has also spoken out againstthe national side which wouldn't favour the fanbase or FAW

Rob Edwards - Way too costly now.

Nathan Jones - Only really achieved success at Luton and is not known for playing a pretty style of football. Would likely alienate the fanbase unless we were consistently churning out good results and qualifying. Potentially pricey too, he's in a job at Charlton but that's a poisoned chalice of a job. Has also said some unsavoury things about the national side in the past. I'd give him a hard swerve.

Other 'options' - Kit Symonds, Chris Coleman, Mark Hughes or another former player with coaching badges. The 'other' list gets very grim, I wouldn't entertain any of these options.

That's an excellent summation of the options. For me it boils down to Page or Osian. Bellamy has too many question marks about his temperament.

[iot]

Mar 27, 2024 13:36:28 GMT surge said:

Mar 27, 2024 13:31:37 GMT freddyboioi said:

I would also add Daniel Farke as someone to consider, especially if Leeds ever get rid of him. Honeymoon periods get forgotten quickly when nosediving in the Prem, as he found at Norwich. We have exactly the type of players Farke can bring the best out of with his dynamic, fluid and attacking style of football. It’s exciting to watch. Massive mutual respect between him and Ampadu too which has allowed Amps to finally excel. Ambitious as it may be, I’d even consider approaching Farke and Leeds about him doing the Wales job part time. Lower wage also due to part time basis.

It's not ambitious to ask to borrow a premier league manager and have at most 20% of his attention levels.

People don't like Page's backroom staff on paper but we have got better since the changes mid-campaign. Also, when people give examples of poor in-game management, they tend to hark back to a time when the current Arsenal assistant was a key part of things.

Yeah you’re bang on with that first comment. It’s not job for the boys, but obviously managers tend to get in assistants they work well with and know how they work and how they can contribute. It’s not a normal job application process - the same is true throughout football. As highly rated as Alex Ramsay was, we’ve looked much better since Page brought in the other Sheffield United bloke who’s been credited with the improved attacking performances (last night aside).

If we do go for someone else, I wouldn’t mind gambling on Bellamy. Definitely a risk given his inexperience, personality, and (I’m afraid to say) mental health issues, but he has an X factor about him and most likely to do something special.

[dai]

This is terrible timing from the FAW. Even if this was the decision, at least let the dust settle a bit. This will just further rile up fans who are adjusting to the disappointment of last night.

I also think it's poor from the FAW to at least not take time to review things.

[allezlesrouges]

I am sick of people continuously calling for Page's head no matter the performance or results without an ounce of nuance. They need to grow up and stop being so spoiled

Most would have said being a shootout away from the Euros in our first campaign without Bale and Ramsey would be a realistic scenario, and yet some people out there are acting as if we came last in the group or something

[winsumluzsum]

Mar 27, 2024 14:21:58 GMT allezlesrouges said:

I am sick of people continuously calling for Page's head no matter the performance or results without an ounce of nuance. They need to grow up and stop being so spoiled

Most would have said being a shootout away from the Euros in our first campaign without Bale and Ramsey would be a realistic scenario, and yet some people out there are acting as if we came last in the group or something

Add Allen to that duo and I'm 100% in agreement.

It bugs me somewhat how Allen keeps getting missed out when people talk about the impact of Bale departing. As if Allen wasn't a key cog in the operation. At least Gwenan Harries last night made a point of acknowledging the impact of Allen on our fortunes.

[erasedcitizen]

Mar 27, 2024 14:21:58 GMT allezlesrouges said:

I am sick of people continuously calling for Page's head no matter the performance or results without an ounce of nuance. They need to grow up and stop being so spoiled

People who have different opinions to you aren't spoiled and there's plenty of valid reasons for wanting him out. Namely his inability to make the correct tactical decisions during a match. I've not seen you give someone with an opposing view the time of day.

You need to accept that not everyone has the same opinion as you do. This is the new norm, we expect more from ourselves because we are better than we were when we weren't qualifying.

It's not even like we got a tough draw this time, Turkey just got pumped by Austria and Croatia were atrocious this campaign. We picked up 1 point against Armenia, that's where it was lost. Despite that, we were still handed playoffs where we played 2 home games and we still couldn't qualify. That smacks of failure.

[dai]

Mar 27, 2024 14:21:58 GMT allezlesrouges said:

I am sick of people continuously calling for Page's head no matter the performance or results without an ounce of nuance. They need to grow up and stop being so spoiled

Most would have said being a shootout away from the Euros in our first campaign without Bale and Ramsey would be a realistic scenario, and yet some people out there are acting as if we came last in the group or something

I think there's more to this than results and performances. Fans have become increasingly frustrated at the constant excuses (vaild or invalid), and his lack of accountability. I can't recall a time where he's actually shown any real responsibility for results or performances, it's always the same excuses - players not playing enough, we're a small country, we're in transition, we've lost Bale etc etc. He comes across as having a bit of an ego in the way he cannot accept blame.

He's been in charge for a decent amount of time now, and there's been zero improvement in how he approaches or manages games. Fans have had enough of watching car crash performances unfold where a manager simply cannot make positive changes, or sometimes, no changes at all. 

[ddirpytnop]

Mar 27, 2024 14:14:21 GMT dai said:

This is terrible timing from the FAW. Even if this was the decision, at least let the dust settle a bit. This will just further rile up fans who are adjusting to the disappointment of last night.

I also think it's poor from the FAW to at least not take time to review things.

If they have already decided to keep him, now is exactly the time make that announcement. Kills the uncertainty and wild speculation stone dead. I am baffled as to why you would think otherwise.

[dai]

Mar 27, 2024 14:53:52 GMT ddirpytnop said:

Mar 27, 2024 14:14:21 GMT dai said:

This is terrible timing from the FAW. Even if this was the decision, at least let the dust settle a bit. This will just further rile up fans who are adjusting to the disappointment of last night.

I also think it's poor from the FAW to at least not take time to review things.

If they have already decided to keep him, now is exactly the time make that announcement. Kills the uncertainty and wild speculation stone dead. I am baffled as to why you would think otherwise.

I explained why, because it's only going to wind up the already p*ssed off fans even more.

[ddirpytnop]

Mar 27, 2024 14:56:54 GMT dai said:

Mar 27, 2024 14:53:52 GMT ddirpytnop said:

If they have already decided to keep him, now is exactly the time make that announcement. Kills the uncertainty and wild speculation stone dead. I am baffled as to why you would think otherwise.

I explained why, because it's only going to wind up the already p*ssed off fans even more.

That really isn't a good reason to delay - in fact, it's not a reason at all. You are annoyed that he's not being replaced and in your frustration, are taking a wild swipe at the FAW.

[dai]

Mar 27, 2024 14:59:53 GMT ddirpytnop said:

Mar 27, 2024 14:56:54 GMT dai said:

I explained why, because it's only going to wind up the already p*ssed off fans even more.

That really isn't a good reason to delay - in fact, it's not a reason at all. You are annoyed that he's not being replaced and in your frustration, are taking a wild swipe at the FAW.

I personally am more annoyed that there's not at least a review of the failings taking place right now, which then SHOULD be leading to a decision.  

It seems to me that Page was guaranteed the 4 years regardless of last nights result or even the qualifiers prior, and that is wrong.

I don't know the ins and outs of his contract, however I was hoping (and expecting) there to be a clause which meant he could be let go should he fail to reach certain targets (like qualifying for Germany). But that seems unlikely after today's announcement. 

[athenempadu]

Osian with Ramsey/Bellamy/Bale/etc as his assistant. With young players like Koumas, Crew, Beck, Harris & Colwill coming through, I think a fresh start with new thinking is the way forward for us. As I see it, we are about to transition into a new 'golden generation' and we have to get this right.