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Post by iot on Mar 29, 2024 15:43:18 GMT
I'm really warming to the idea of playing a 4-3-3. It's perfect for Ampadu with his range of passing and ability to dictate proceedings. It also suits JJ, who has good stats for progressive carries and takeons compared to other Championship midfielders (see fbref). It also matches Wilson and Brooks' skillsets, with the former in particular having excellent defensive stats (high on interceptions, blocks and clearances and average on tackles compared to other PL attacking midfielders). Johnson and DJ would be well suited to the wide attacking berths (interesting to note that Johnson has surprisingly good defensive stats - no doubt thanks to Postecoglu). Moore and to a lesser extent Broadhead would fit the central attacking slot. The only question mark concerns the back 4, with the same questions arising as with a 4-2-3-1. Neco is fine as a FB, but is Davies? And is the Rodon Mepham combo strong enough? The Nations League games are the perfect opportunity to test things out. The thing I like most about a 4-3-3 is that it should give us some guile and creativity in the centre of the park that is currently lacking. Think it depends on Ramsey. I definitely don’t think Brooks is suited to a 8 - just instinctively not defensive minded at all. He can do it from a wide forward area, but wouldn’t have the positional discipline to play an 8 imo. Similar with Wilson - let’s not forget that’s exactly what we tried in the World Cup with Wilson playing the first two games as an 8. Rambo could obviously perform the role if he stays on, otherwise we’d need to look at the youngsters - Harris, Raymond, Colwill - see whether one of those can step up. But 4232 probably suits us better if we move to a back 4. Definitely think we should experiment with it in the summer, with Davies and Rodon the central two. As for Johnson, think we need to plan for life after Moore, so I’d like to see him play centrally. I’ve seen enough from him in that role against Finland and Turkey to think he can grow into it, opens up another space for our wide forwards then |
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Post by morg on Mar 29, 2024 16:42:11 GMT
I'm really warming to the idea of playing a 4-3-3. It's perfect for Ampadu with his range of passing and ability to dictate proceedings. It also suits JJ, who has good stats for progressive carries and takeons compared to other Championship midfielders (see fbref). It also matches Wilson and Brooks' skillsets, with the former in particular having excellent defensive stats (high on interceptions, blocks and clearances and average on tackles compared to other PL attacking midfielders). Johnson and DJ would be well suited to the wide attacking berths (interesting to note that Johnson has surprisingly good defensive stats - no doubt thanks to Postecoglu). Moore and to a lesser extent Broadhead would fit the central attacking slot. The only question mark concerns the back 4, with the same questions arising as with a 4-2-3-1. Neco is fine as a FB, but is Davies? And is the Rodon Mepham combo strong enough? The Nations League games are the perfect opportunity to test things out. The thing I like most about a 4-3-3 is that it should give us some guile and creativity in the centre of the park that is currently lacking. Think it depends on Ramsey. I definitely don’t think Brooks is suited to a 8 - just instinctively not defensive minded at all. He can do it from a wide forward area, but wouldn’t have the positional discipline to play an 8 imo. Similar with Wilson - let’s not forget that’s exactly what we tried in the World Cup with Wilson playing the first two games as an 8. Rambo could obviously perform the role if he stays on, otherwise we’d need to look at the youngsters - Harris, Raymond, Colwill - see whether one of those can step up. But 4232 probably suits us better if we move to a back 4. Definitely think we should experiment with it in the summer, with Davies and Rodon the central two. As for Johnson, think we need to plan for life after Moore, so I’d like to see him play centrally. I’ve seen enough from him in that role against Finland and Turkey to think he can grow into it, opens up another space for our wide forwards then 4232 would be nice but I can't see us getting away with it 😔 Who would the 3 be? Brooks,Wilson, DJ? Wouldn't this mean the outer 2 of the 3 being out and out wingers? Not sure this suits Brooks or Wilson? Think 4 at the back would definitely give us options but if our back 4 was mainly expected to defend, would possibly see this as a waste of Neco? Could he slot into the 3 as a wide man instead? |
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Post by fourfourtwo on Mar 29, 2024 17:19:10 GMT
I understand Ashley Williams has done his coaching badges and I bet he would love a crack at the Welsh job, given half a chance. Yes he doesn't have proven managerial experience but if he surrounded himself with the right people, why not take a punt on him ? They miss, James scores, we qualify, Page celebrated. They score, James misses, we go out, why not ditch Page for a guy that's never managed before. Yeah, nah. Point I was making was if people want a fresh approach, which might be an affordable option,then it might be worth considering him, and he would have the respect of the players. |
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Post by iot on Mar 29, 2024 18:29:53 GMT
Think it depends on Ramsey. I definitely don’t think Brooks is suited to a 8 - just instinctively not defensive minded at all. He can do it from a wide forward area, but wouldn’t have the positional discipline to play an 8 imo. Similar with Wilson - let’s not forget that’s exactly what we tried in the World Cup with Wilson playing the first two games as an 8. Rambo could obviously perform the role if he stays on, otherwise we’d need to look at the youngsters - Harris, Raymond, Colwill - see whether one of those can step up. But 4232 probably suits us better if we move to a back 4. Definitely think we should experiment with it in the summer, with Davies and Rodon the central two. As for Johnson, think we need to plan for life after Moore, so I’d like to see him play centrally. I’ve seen enough from him in that role against Finland and Turkey to think he can grow into it, opens up another space for our wide forwards then 4232 would be nice but I can't see us getting away with it 😔 Who would the 3 be? Brooks,Wilson, DJ? Wouldn't this mean the outer 2 of the 3 being out and out wingers? Not sure this suits Brooks or Wilson? Think 4 at the back would definitely give us options but if our back 4 was mainly expected to defend, would possibly see this as a waste of Neco? Could he slot into the 3 as a wide man instead? Oops, meant 4231! Not necessarily traditional wingers, more wide forwards, where they play for their clubs - Wilson cutting in from the right, DJ on the left, Brooks playing centrally. Neco’s playing well at RB from Forest. Yes would take away from his attacking game slightly, but most full backs go forward plenty these days anyway |
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Post by rushy on Mar 29, 2024 19:00:22 GMT
Now the FA of Wales have unsurprisingly made it's decision to continue in the same vein which allows Rob Page to continue in his managerial role of the Welsh National side, it clearly shows the lack of foresight and ambition within , what I and thousands of other Welshmen would like to know is , .....Why has continuous failure been rewarded ?
This is not personal, however the simple truth is we didn't qualify because of the inadequacies of the manager, which were plain to see over the WC and this tournament, yet it appears that the FAW are happy enough to fill the Cardiff City Stadium and their bank balance knowing full well they can rely on the incredibly passionate Welsh fanbase to give a good impression and then hope for the best on what happens on the pitch.
As we go on to the next tournament we know exactly where we are and what to expect, and IF by chance we qualify for the WC, are there really truly going to be people who come on here and say ..."I told you he's a good Manager"
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Post by iot on Mar 29, 2024 19:42:57 GMT
Now the FA of Wales have unsurprisingly made it's decision to continue in the same vein which allows Rob Page to continue in his managerial role of the Welsh National side, it clearly shows the lack of foresight and ambition within , what I and thousands of other Welshmen would like to know is , .....Why has continuous failure been rewarded ? This is not personal, however the simple truth is we didn't qualify because of the inadequacies of the manager, which were plain to see over the WC and this tournament, yet it appears that the FAW are happy enough to fill the Cardiff City Stadium and their bank balance knowing full well they can rely on the incredibly passionate Welsh fanbase to give a good impression and then hope for the best on what happens on the pitch. As we go on to the next tournament we know exactly where we are and what to expect, and IF by chance we qualify for the WC, are there really truly going to be people who come on here and say ..."I told you he's a good Manager" You're not facing up to reality unfortunately. You're just making baseless accusations. The FAW aren't rolling in money and their decision on the manager isn't driven by financial greed, but obviously they have to live within their means. They have a League 1 / low Championship budget for a manager, which is less than the likes of Cooper could command |
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Post by rushy on Mar 30, 2024 10:27:59 GMT
Now the FA of Wales have unsurprisingly made it's decision to continue in the same vein which allows Rob Page to continue in his managerial role of the Welsh National side, it clearly shows the lack of foresight and ambition within , what I and thousands of other Welshmen would like to know is , .....Why has continuous failure been rewarded ? This is not personal, however the simple truth is we didn't qualify because of the inadequacies of the manager, which were plain to see over the WC and this tournament, yet it appears that the FAW are happy enough to fill the Cardiff City Stadium and their bank balance knowing full well they can rely on the incredibly passionate Welsh fanbase to give a good impression and then hope for the best on what happens on the pitch. As we go on to the next tournament we know exactly where we are and what to expect, and IF by chance we qualify for the WC, are there really truly going to be people who come on here and say ..."I told you he's a good Manager" You're not facing up to reality unfortunately. You're just making baseless accusations. The FAW aren't rolling in money and their decision on the manager isn't driven by financial greed, but obviously they have to live within their means. They have a League 1 / low Championship budget for a manager, which is less than the likes of Cooper could command There is an argument to be had on how the finances are distributed, we all know there is a limited budget in comparison to England for example, but representing your country should not be about money earned, and when you see the likes of Ukraine and Georgia qualifying with their budgets, it makes you wonder about how relevant the financial aspect is to winning matches. In conclusion, how you can say I'm making baseless accusations when the evidence against Page is overwhelming , all we need is a tactically astute leader of men, we have Ben on the pitch but he doesn't choose the set up or makes the necessary changes in personel when required, which is the role of the manager and where the problem lies. |
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Post by mrpicton79 on Mar 30, 2024 11:05:46 GMT
Had we not had the announcement this week, I would have gone for Steve Clarke. And I fully expect the Scots to have a disastrous Euro's. And for Clarke to be the fall guy. Why would Steve Clarke want anything to do with Wales? |
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Post by saturn9 on Mar 30, 2024 11:58:39 GMT
Had we not had the announcement this week, I would have gone for Steve Clarke. And I fully expect the Scots to have a disastrous Euro's. And for Clarke to be the fall guy. Why would Steve Clarke want anything to do with Wales? . He wasn't exactly in demand before the Scot's came calling was he? And he'd be a major upgrade on the current set-up. Irrelevant now though. |
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Post by winsumluzsum on Mar 30, 2024 12:46:27 GMT
I'm really warming to the idea of playing a 4-3-3. It's perfect for Ampadu with his range of passing and ability to dictate proceedings. It also suits JJ, who has good stats for progressive carries and takeons compared to other Championship midfielders (see fbref). It also matches Wilson and Brooks' skillsets, with the former in particular having excellent defensive stats (high on interceptions, blocks and clearances and average on tackles compared to other PL attacking midfielders). Johnson and DJ would be well suited to the wide attacking berths (interesting to note that Johnson has surprisingly good defensive stats - no doubt thanks to Postecoglu). Moore and to a lesser extent Broadhead would fit the central attacking slot. The only question mark concerns the back 4, with the same questions arising as with a 4-2-3-1. Neco is fine as a FB, but is Davies? And is the Rodon Mepham combo strong enough? The Nations League games are the perfect opportunity to test things out. The thing I like most about a 4-3-3 is that it should give us some guile and creativity in the centre of the park that is currently lacking. Think it depends on Ramsey. I definitely don’t think Brooks is suited to a 8 - just instinctively not defensive minded at all. He can do it from a wide forward area, but wouldn’t have the positional discipline to play an 8 imo. Similar with Wilson - let’s not forget that’s exactly what we tried in the World Cup with Wilson playing the first two games as an 8. Rambo could obviously perform the role if he stays on, otherwise we’d need to look at the youngsters - Harris, Raymond, Colwill - see whether one of those can step up. But 4232 probably suits us better if we move to a back 4. Definitely think we should experiment with it in the summer, with Davies and Rodon the central two. As for Johnson, think we need to plan for life after Moore, so I’d like to see him play centrally. I’ve seen enough from him in that role against Finland and Turkey to think he can grow into it, opens up another space for our wide forwards then In the World Cup we played 3-5-2 in the first two games with Ramsey and Wilson as 8s. Ramsey's poor fitness level, plus Bale's equally poor fitness further forwards was always going to compromise us defensively. But playing Wilson or Brooks alongside two defensively strong DMs in Ampadu and James will provide a lot stronger defensive platform than at the WC, especially with a defensively more proactive front 3. Wilson certainly has the defensive stats to suggest he can do a job as an 8. Brooks is more questionable I accept, but he could be a useful utility player, playing in the front three or middle three as the situation demands. We certainly need to use the Nations League games as an opportunity to experiment with selections and formations. Nothing too wild, as we need to well, but there's no better chance to change things. |
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Post by fireboy0610 on Mar 30, 2024 15:17:17 GMT
I have just started to come out of the hole I have been in since Tuesday night.
I just do not understand why page is still in a job, he and only he was responsible for us losing on Tuesday, it was his decisions that has cost us a place at the euros, i don't want to go too deep but simple decisions like leaving keiffer on for 120 mins when it was clear he was blowing out of his arse, putting Brooks on when he was clearly not fit, putting James at fb when we had dasilva on the bench when james was a far better use up front, we had matondo who atm is playing well, why wasn't he used when pace was clearly something that the poles feared.
His tactics and decision making is shocking, his lack of confidence of using other players has ultimately cost us a place at the euros.
Some people defend him because he got us to the wc but we were lucky to get there through the play offs, 1 we had ramsey and Bale and 2 we could have lost against Ukraine if a penalty was rightly awarded, so he never really got us to a championship.
The longer he is with us the further back we will go, as I have said previously I have mulled over this in the last few days so it isn't an angry kneejerk reaction, it is well thought out, we have a really good squad that with pages lack of tactical nous and his lack of confidence in squad players because he doesn't play them it is totally down to his for us not qualifying.
The FAW have ballsed up in not sacking him, unless he wises up and starts using the younger players we will never go forward, we will regress.
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Post by iot on Mar 30, 2024 18:05:03 GMT
You're not facing up to reality unfortunately. You're just making baseless accusations. The FAW aren't rolling in money and their decision on the manager isn't driven by financial greed, but obviously they have to live within their means. They have a League 1 / low Championship budget for a manager, which is less than the likes of Cooper could command There is an argument to be had on how the finances are distributed, we all know there is a limited budget in comparison to England for example, but representing your country should not be about money earned, and when you see the likes of Ukraine and Georgia qualifying with their budgets, it makes you wonder about how relevant the financial aspect is to winning matches. In conclusion, how you can say I'm making baseless accusations when the evidence against Page is overwhelming , all we need is a tactically astute leader of men, we have Ben on the pitch but he doesn't choose the set up or makes the necessary changes in personel when required, which is the role of the manager and where the problem lies. Not sure what relevance Georgia and Ukraine have. Ukraine have much better players and had a far easier playoff draw, I don’t think Georgia were close to qualifying through their group stage, but got through via the opportunity given to lower ranked sides through the Nations League. They only had to overcome Luxembourg and Greece. Think you’ve misunderstood. Wasn’t saying you’re not facing up to reality in criticising Page. I’ve criticised him plenty. It was your insinuation that the FAW are sticking with him to fill the bank, rather than they’ve simply determined he’s the best option within what’s financially possible. That said, I do disagree with lots of your criticisms of Page too. I don’t find them balanced at all |
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Post by iot on Mar 30, 2024 18:19:42 GMT
Think it depends on Ramsey. I definitely don’t think Brooks is suited to a 8 - just instinctively not defensive minded at all. He can do it from a wide forward area, but wouldn’t have the positional discipline to play an 8 imo. Similar with Wilson - let’s not forget that’s exactly what we tried in the World Cup with Wilson playing the first two games as an 8. Rambo could obviously perform the role if he stays on, otherwise we’d need to look at the youngsters - Harris, Raymond, Colwill - see whether one of those can step up. But 4232 probably suits us better if we move to a back 4. Definitely think we should experiment with it in the summer, with Davies and Rodon the central two. As for Johnson, think we need to plan for life after Moore, so I’d like to see him play centrally. I’ve seen enough from him in that role against Finland and Turkey to think he can grow into it, opens up another space for our wide forwards then In the World Cup we played 3-5-2 in the first two games with Ramsey and Wilson as 8s. Ramsey's poor fitness level, plus Bale's equally poor fitness further forwards was always going to compromise us defensively. But playing Wilson or Brooks alongside two defensively strong DMs in Ampadu and James will provide a lot stronger defensive platform than at the WC, especially with a defensively more proactive front 3. Wilson certainly has the defensive stats to suggest he can do a job as an 8. Brooks is more questionable I accept, but he could be a useful utility player, playing in the front three or middle three as the situation demands. We certainly need to use the Nations League games as an opportunity to experiment with selections and formations. Nothing too wild, as we need to well, but there's no better chance to change things. Think you’re being very kind re Wilson’s WC performances, he looked like a fish out of water in that role. Think you’re conflating ‘defensive stats’ from forward positions with the type of positional discipline it requires to play the 8 role. I have very little confidence that Brooks would do it well, and I’m not keen to repeat a similar experiment with Wilson either |
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Post by fiveattheback on Mar 30, 2024 18:32:50 GMT
In the World Cup we played 3-5-2 in the first two games with Ramsey and Wilson as 8s. Ramsey's poor fitness level, plus Bale's equally poor fitness further forwards was always going to compromise us defensively. But playing Wilson or Brooks alongside two defensively strong DMs in Ampadu and James will provide a lot stronger defensive platform than at the WC, especially with a defensively more proactive front 3. Wilson certainly has the defensive stats to suggest he can do a job as an 8. Brooks is more questionable I accept, but he could be a useful utility player, playing in the front three or middle three as the situation demands. We certainly need to use the Nations League games as an opportunity to experiment with selections and formations. Nothing too wild, as we need to well, but there's no better chance to change things. Think you’re being very kind re Wilson’s WC performances, he looked like a fish out of water in that role. Think you’re conflating ‘defensive stats’ from forward positions with the type of positional discipline it requires to play the 8 role. I have very little confidence that Brooks would do it well, and I’m not keen to repeat a similar experiment with Wilson either I think some people underestimate just how difficult it is to play in midfield, you rarely see players successfully transition to being an out and out central midfielder |
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Post by hooky on Mar 30, 2024 19:00:13 GMT
I have just started to come out ofvthr hole I have been in since Tuesday night. I just do not understand why page is still in a job, he and only he was responsible for us losing on Tuesday, it was his decisions that has cost us a place at the euros, i don't want to go too deep but simple decision like leaving keiffer on for 120 mins when it was clear he was blowing out of his arse, putting Brooks on when he was clearly not fit, putting James at fb when we had dasilva on the bench when james was a far better use up front, we had matondo who atm is playing well, why wasn't he used when pace was clearly something that the poles feared. His tactics and decision making is shocking, his lack of confidence of using other players has ultimately cost us a place at the euros. Some people defend him because he got us to the wc but we were lucky in getting there through the play offs, one we had ramsey and Bale and 2 we could have lost against Ukraine if a penalty was rightly awarded, so he never really got us to a championship. The longer he is with us the further back we will go, as I have said previously I have mulled over this in the last few days so it isn't an angry reaction, it is well thought out, we have a really good squad that with pages lack of tactical nous and his lack of confidence in squad players because he doesn't play them it is totally down to his for us not qualifying. The FAW have ballsed up in not sacking him, unless he wises up and starts using the younger players we will never go forward, we will regress. Johnson MoM today by sounds of it - mobile, dynamic taken off early versus Poland Mantando - too risky to use his pace for Wales on Tuesday - scores for Rangers today ,,,, but Page knows best and is proud so its all good ..... |
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Post by winsumluzsum on Mar 30, 2024 20:54:06 GMT
In the World Cup we played 3-5-2 in the first two games with Ramsey and Wilson as 8s. Ramsey's poor fitness level, plus Bale's equally poor fitness further forwards was always going to compromise us defensively. But playing Wilson or Brooks alongside two defensively strong DMs in Ampadu and James will provide a lot stronger defensive platform than at the WC, especially with a defensively more proactive front 3. Wilson certainly has the defensive stats to suggest he can do a job as an 8. Brooks is more questionable I accept, but he could be a useful utility player, playing in the front three or middle three as the situation demands. We certainly need to use the Nations League games as an opportunity to experiment with selections and formations. Nothing too wild, as we need to well, but there's no better chance to change things. Think you’re being very kind re Wilson’s WC performances, he looked like a fish out of water in that role. Think you’re conflating ‘defensive stats’ from forward positions with the type of positional discipline it requires to play the 8 role. I have very little confidence that Brooks would do it well, and I’m not keen to repeat a similar experiment with Wilson either I don't deny it would be a risk to experiment with 4-3-3. But it would also be a risk to anchor a 4-2-3-1 with two defensive mids who are strong defensively but of questionable merit offensively. The truth is we miss the number 8 credentials of Ramsey and Allen, and playing without a natural number 8 could make us lacking in guile and invention. Look at the first half of extra time and notice how influential Brooks was by dropping into deep positions and linking play beautifully. Perhaps the way to go is to play 4-2-3-1 and give Brooks or Wilson considerable license to drop deep to pick up possession. Not that different to playing a 4-3-3 but it would be clearer that the roaming 10 role would have limited defensive responsibilities. |
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Post by winsumluzsum on Mar 30, 2024 21:35:17 GMT
Another interesting possibility is to play with a midfield diamond: 4-1-2-1-2.
Ward
Neco Mepham Rodon Davies
Ampadu
J James Wilson
Brooks
Two of: Moore Johnson D James
Having Johnson paired with Dan James would be a scary prospect for any team with two of the fastest men in English football. A Moore James combo could also be a perfect little and large duo. In the defensive phase the formation could be more of a 4-3-1-2. Again there are legitimate doubts about Wilson's credentials, but apart from him you have round pegs in round holes.
One thing's for sure, whatever the system, I want to see more of the lovely play a minute into injury time at the end of the second half. Brooks played no fewer than 3 one twos before feeding the ball to the left, where the resulting cross to Moore should have yielded a penalty. Brooks for me is our magician, and we need to get him involved as much as possible.
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Post by erasedcitizen on Mar 30, 2024 22:35:39 GMT
Absolutely done speculating over what the side could be. Page will get it wrong far too often because he's a limited manager.
The FAW are giving up hope of qualifying for the World Cup by keeping him on, and I'm not sure they're that arsed. It's all very disappointing.
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Post by rush on Mar 31, 2024 8:51:42 GMT
I have just started to come out of the hole I have been in since Tuesday night. I just do not understand why page is still in a job, he and only he was responsible for us losing on Tuesday, it was his decisions that has cost us a place at the euros, i don't want to go too deep but simple decisions like leaving keiffer on for 120 mins when it was clear he was blowing out of his arse, putting Brooks on when he was clearly not fit, putting James at fb when we had dasilva on the bench when james was a far better use up front, we had matondo who atm is playing well, why wasn't he used when pace was clearly something that the poles feared. His tactics and decision making is shocking, his lack of confidence of using other players has ultimately cost us a place at the euros. Some people defend him because he got us to the wc but we were lucky to get there through the play offs, 1 we had ramsey and Bale and 2 we could have lost against Ukraine if a penalty was rightly awarded, so he never really got us to a championship. The longer he is with us the further back we will go, as I have said previously I have mulled over this in the last few days so it isn't an angry kneejerk reaction, it is well thought out, we have a really good squad that with pages lack of tactical nous and his lack of confidence in squad players because he doesn't play them it is totally down to his for us not qualifying. The FAW have ballsed up in not sacking him, unless he wises up and starts using the younger players we will never go forward, we will regress. |
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Post by hooky on Mar 31, 2024 10:05:46 GMT
How often will some of these bench players turn up for us when they do not have his trust and are getting zero opportunity?
We hear we have a great togetherness amongst players and coaches but isn't this a togetherness that is limited to a core of players where others are excluded like spare parts and not trusted. What is the football reason for Lawrence being totally ignored (he had a mental health issue caused by his mother's death according to the player - if that is true then support the player) and Sorba is also being ignored now. Did they sulk for not getting picked and fail to join in with the good vibe? Life is full of different personalties but just because they don't fit your version of a good pro does not mean you should ignore them. There may be introverts, people going through hard times that keep things to themselves and even people on the spectrum, who are autistic perhaps. The one positive we keep hearing is that Page is a great man manager but I for one am starting to think the opposite
On introducing Jordan James - don't give me that nonsense that Page has progressed players either. I and some others were calling out for him to replace Morrell well before he got his start based on the little I saw of him for his club and seeing the impact he had. Just think - Page and his coaches kept going with Morrell despite seeing them both in training until Morrell got suspended and the injured. It was not like he got plucked out of the air - England U20s picked him for their squad when the Welsh system were still picking him at U17 or U18 level! The truth is when he played away against Estonia, stood out and made no mistakes and showed great strength, technique and a great reading of the game - then it was impossible to ignore that he was a massive upgrade on Morrell
He is a flawed and poor human being perhaps, but we all know things were different under Giggs - he gave chances to so many players and made major decisions and got Wales on an upward curve prior to his departure making a tactical tweak that few saw coming as it seemed to go totally against the way he saw the game - the Hungary performance was a complete performance.
If Page was a half decent coach then a Championship team would have come in for him. We know that is not going to happen - it is a really depressing situation we are in that we have to fail for two and a half years before his contract expires and he leaves. I just hope our ranking does not get destroyed over that period
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Post by jono on Mar 31, 2024 10:52:06 GMT
Absolutely done speculating over what the side could be. Page will get it wrong far too often because he's a limited manager. The FAW are giving up hope of qualifying for the World Cup by keeping him on, and I'm not sure they're that arsed. It's all very disappointing. Wether we can call this a new golden generation i don't know. But we've got some serious talent in there. Neco, Ethan, Dan, JJ, Harry, Brennan, Brooks etc etc. My fear with Page in charge is this current era will completely pass us by by not reached our potential. |
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Post by erasedcitizen on Mar 31, 2024 17:30:11 GMT
Absolutely done speculating over what the side could be. Page will get it wrong far too often because he's a limited manager. The FAW are giving up hope of qualifying for the World Cup by keeping him on, and I'm not sure they're that arsed. It's all very disappointing. Wether we can call this a new golden generation i don't know. But we've got some serious talent in there. Neco, Ethan, Dan, JJ, Harry, Brennan, Brooks etc etc. My fear with Page in charge is this current era will completely pass us by by not reached our potential. I think we have a great chance of qualifying for the World Cup, with this group of players, if we bring in the right manager. We have next to no chance with Page as manager. I'm furious with the FAW in honesty, we need a clearout. None of them are fit for purpose. Expecting around 10k average for the nations league, with very few from the north bothering. |
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Post by iot on Mar 31, 2024 17:51:32 GMT
Wether we can call this a new golden generation i don't know. But we've got some serious talent in there. Neco, Ethan, Dan, JJ, Harry, Brennan, Brooks etc etc. My fear with Page in charge is this current era will completely pass us by by not reached our potential. I think we have a great chance of qualifying for the World Cup, with this group of players, if we bring in the right manager. We have next to no chance with Page as manager. I'm furious with the FAW in honesty, we need a clearout. None of them are fit for purpose. Expecting around 10k average for the nations league, with very few from the north bothering. I completely disagree with your analysis to be honest. You think our players are much better than they are, and Page is much worse than he is relative to other realistic options. People talk about the likes of Harry Wilson, who I would say has been our best player over the last year, as proof of the 'golden generation' we now have and how it's only because of Page we've failed to qualify with these amazing players. In reality, Wilson is in and out (mostly out) of a midtable premier league side. He's scored 3 Premier League goals all season, one in his last 10. And this is a player who's just turned 27 and in theory in his prime. Then you have a clutch of other players who have struggled just as much, if not more, at the same level (Brooks, James, Moore) - they're all upper end Championship players. Brennan is the only forward who will have a good Premier League career. So to call that a golden generation, after we've just been blessed to have truly elite Bale and Ramsey supported by really good prem players in Allen, Davies, and Williams, is quite frankly laughable. Page has made some disastrous mistakes this past campaign, he's also been spot on tactically just as often. It is not Page that's holding us back. Sure we could do better with a more experienced / tactically adept manager, but there's no obvious affordable alternative. The main reason we lost out in this campaign was because we did not quite have the quality to overcome Poland, Turkey and Croatia. Page's tactical limitations is a distant second to that primary reason imo, but I guess it's much more comforting / cathartic to lay all the blame at the manager as an easy fall guy rather than facing up to the reality |
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Post by erasedcitizen on Mar 31, 2024 18:18:56 GMT
I think we have a great chance of qualifying for the World Cup, with this group of players, if we bring in the right manager. We have next to no chance with Page as manager. I'm furious with the FAW in honesty, we need a clearout. None of them are fit for purpose. Expecting around 10k average for the nations league, with very few from the north bothering. I completely disagree with your analysis to be honest. You think our players are much better than they are, and Page is much worse than he is relative to other realistic options. People talk about the likes of Harry Wilson, who I would say has been our best player over the last year, as proof of the 'golden generation' we now have and how it's only because of Page we've failed to qualify with these amazing players. In reality, Wilson is in and out (mostly out) of a midtable premier league side. He's scored 3 Premier League goals all season, one in his last 10. And this is a player who's just turned 27 and in theory in his prime. Then you have a clutch of other players who have struggled just as much, if not more, at the same level (Brooks, James, Moore) - they're all upper end Championship players. Brennan is the only forward who will have a good Premier League career. So to call that a golden generation, after we've just been blessed to have truly elite Bale and Ramsey supported by really good prem players in Allen, Davies, and Williams, is quite frankly laughable. Page has made some disastrous mistakes this past campaign, he's also been spot on tactically just as often. It is not Page that's holding us back. Sure we could do better with a more experienced / tactically adept manager, but there's no obvious affordable alternative. The main reason we lost out in this campaign was because we did not quite have the quality to overcome Poland, Turkey and Croatia. Page's tactical limitations is a distant second to that primary reason imo, but I guess it's much more comforting / cathartic to lay all the blame at the manager as an easy fall guy rather than facing up to the reality Disagree with a fair bit of that but can't be faffed with the 3 paragraph response. I'm not sure this post warrants it given you've put words in my mouth. |
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Post by surge on Mar 31, 2024 19:30:49 GMT
The idea that there was one primary reason for not qualifying is one I struggle to agree with.
For example, Turkey looked miles off scoring in Turkey despite red card and Brennan's injury...until they got two after 70 mins. And yet despite all that, and other than previously mentioned, we probably qualify if we beat Armenia away from home to set up play-off against Turkey.
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Post by fireboy0610 on Mar 31, 2024 19:46:21 GMT
I think we have a great chance of qualifying for the World Cup, with this group of players, if we bring in the right manager. We have next to no chance with Page as manager. I'm furious with the FAW in honesty, we need a clearout. None of them are fit for purpose. Expecting around 10k average for the nations league, with very few from the north bothering. I completely disagree with your analysis to be honest. You think our players are much better than they are, and Page is much worse than he is relative to other realistic options. People talk about the likes of Harry Wilson, who I would say has been our best player over the last year, as proof of the 'golden generation' we now have and how it's only because of Page we've failed to qualify with these amazing players. In reality, Wilson is in and out (mostly out) of a midtable premier league side. He's scored 3 Premier League goals all season, one in his last 10. And this is a player who's just turned 27 and in theory in his prime. Then you have a clutch of other players who have struggled just as much, if not more, at the same level (Brooks, James, Moore) - they're all upper end Championship players. Brennan is the only forward who will have a good Premier League career. So to call that a golden generation, after we've just been blessed to have truly elite Bale and Ramsey supported by really good prem players in Allen, Davies, and Williams, is quite frankly laughable. Page has made some disastrous mistakes this past campaign, he's also been spot on tactically just as often. It is not Page that's holding us back. Sure we could do better with a more experienced / tactically adept manager, but there's no obvious affordable alternative. The main reason we lost out in this campaign was because we did not quite have the quality to overcome Poland, Turkey and Croatia. Page's tactical limitations is a distant second to that primary reason imo, but I guess it's much more comforting / cathartic to lay all the blame at the manager as an easy fall guy rather than facing up to the reality I've been reading your posts quite closely, you are totally wrong on every point you make re pages positives, I just cannot be bothered replying to each point as I have in previous posts pointed out his failings, along with several others, all I want to know is why you defend his so much? |
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Post by iot on Mar 31, 2024 19:56:26 GMT
I completely disagree with your analysis to be honest. You think our players are much better than they are, and Page is much worse than he is relative to other realistic options. People talk about the likes of Harry Wilson, who I would say has been our best player over the last year, as proof of the 'golden generation' we now have and how it's only because of Page we've failed to qualify with these amazing players. In reality, Wilson is in and out (mostly out) of a midtable premier league side. He's scored 3 Premier League goals all season, one in his last 10. And this is a player who's just turned 27 and in theory in his prime. Then you have a clutch of other players who have struggled just as much, if not more, at the same level (Brooks, James, Moore) - they're all upper end Championship players. Brennan is the only forward who will have a good Premier League career. So to call that a golden generation, after we've just been blessed to have truly elite Bale and Ramsey supported by really good prem players in Allen, Davies, and Williams, is quite frankly laughable. Page has made some disastrous mistakes this past campaign, he's also been spot on tactically just as often. It is not Page that's holding us back. Sure we could do better with a more experienced / tactically adept manager, but there's no obvious affordable alternative. The main reason we lost out in this campaign was because we did not quite have the quality to overcome Poland, Turkey and Croatia. Page's tactical limitations is a distant second to that primary reason imo, but I guess it's much more comforting / cathartic to lay all the blame at the manager as an easy fall guy rather than facing up to the reality Disagree with a fair bit of that but can't be faffed with the 3 paragraph response. I'm not sure this post warrants it given you've put words in my mouth. Of all the reactionary BS I see posted and this is the post that doesn’t warrant a response? Do me a favour. I responded to someone else talking about a golden generation but apart from that you’ve said: - the FAW need clearing out, presumably for not replacing Page with a better manager (with God knows what funds) - that we would have a ‘great’ chance of qualifying, were it not for Page That’s directly what I was responding to. You, and so many others, have an unreasonably high expectation of this group of players when you consider what they’re doing at club level, causing you to lash out at the guy in charge. The next sucker foolish enough to take the job would soon receive a similar treatment as our fans aren’t prepared to accept the actual level of quality in the squad. |
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Post by iot on Mar 31, 2024 20:15:19 GMT
I completely disagree with your analysis to be honest. You think our players are much better than they are, and Page is much worse than he is relative to other realistic options. People talk about the likes of Harry Wilson, who I would say has been our best player over the last year, as proof of the 'golden generation' we now have and how it's only because of Page we've failed to qualify with these amazing players. In reality, Wilson is in and out (mostly out) of a midtable premier league side. He's scored 3 Premier League goals all season, one in his last 10. And this is a player who's just turned 27 and in theory in his prime. Then you have a clutch of other players who have struggled just as much, if not more, at the same level (Brooks, James, Moore) - they're all upper end Championship players. Brennan is the only forward who will have a good Premier League career. So to call that a golden generation, after we've just been blessed to have truly elite Bale and Ramsey supported by really good prem players in Allen, Davies, and Williams, is quite frankly laughable. Page has made some disastrous mistakes this past campaign, he's also been spot on tactically just as often. It is not Page that's holding us back. Sure we could do better with a more experienced / tactically adept manager, but there's no obvious affordable alternative. The main reason we lost out in this campaign was because we did not quite have the quality to overcome Poland, Turkey and Croatia. Page's tactical limitations is a distant second to that primary reason imo, but I guess it's much more comforting / cathartic to lay all the blame at the manager as an easy fall guy rather than facing up to the reality I've been reading your posts quite closely, you are totally wrong on every point you make re pages positives, I just cannot be bothered replying to each point as I have in previous posts pointed out his failings, along with several others, all I want to know is why you defend his so much? Thanks for taking the time to go over my ridiculously long posts. I really struggle to see how you would form that view looking at things objectively. That’s what I try to do, to look at things as objectively as possible, whereas I feel others aren’t looking at things in a clear headed way at all. It’s all ‘Page bad’, no nuance, nothing can be explained by other factors (such as, you know, how good our players actually are). I try to back up the points I make with some evidence - references to different games where we’ve been tactically good etc. hence the ridiculous length on my posts (sorry) but I just think a lot of people are coming out with unoriginal (I see dozens of almost identical tweets) posts with no critical thought in sight. If you look back at my posts, you’d find lots of criticisms of the decisions he’s made and I’ve said after the Poland and Turkey games that he should be sacked if a better, attainable alternative can be found. So I think I’ve had a balanced view on it. You only think I defend him all the time because of how lopsided your outlook on the situation has become. I’m looking at the good and the bad, while you can only see the bad. |
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Post by winsumluzsum on Mar 31, 2024 20:27:08 GMT
I've been reading your posts quite closely, you are totally wrong on every point you make re pages positives, I just cannot be bothered replying to each point as I have in previous posts pointed out his failings, along with several others, all I want to know is why you defend his so much? Thanks for taking the time to go over my ridiculously long posts. I really struggle to see how you would form that view looking at things objectively. That’s what I try to do, to look at things as objectively as possible, whereas I feel others aren’t looking at things in a clear headed way at all. It’s all ‘Page bad’, no nuance, nothing can be explained by other factors (such as, you know, how good our players actually are). I try to back up the points I make with some evidence - references to different games where we’ve been tactically good etc. hence the ridiculous length on my posts (sorry) but I just think a lot of people are coming out with unoriginal (I see dozens of almost identical tweets) posts with no critical thought in sight. If you look back at my posts, you’d find lots of criticisms of the decisions he’s made and I’ve said after the Poland and Turkey games that he should be sacked if a better, attainable alternative can be found. So I think I’ve had a balanced view on it. You only think I defend him all the time because of how lopsided your outlook on the situation has become. I’m looking at the good and the bad, while you can only see the bad. I think we see things broadly the same way, and concur on sticking with Page unless a better affordable alternative can be found. Where I differ slightly is on the quality of the squad. Yes we lack the top end players which clearly matters, but the team is of more consistent quality now, with considerable more strength in depth. The Euro 2016 squad relied on the likes of Gunter, Ledley and HRK who gave their all for sure, but the current squad has stronger options in their positions in my opinion. We also had to draw on the likes of Church and Cotterrill in qualifying who are much weaker than our current squad players. In a way Page has made a rod for his own back by doing so well in quite a few games, especially Croatia and Turkiye at home. This has shown how strong a team we have which then accentuates the frustration with the performances against Armenia home and away, where Page was clearly outsmarted by his Ukrainian counterpart. I think Page is a decent manager, but needs to improve. Does he have the drive and determination to be the best version of himself, or is he content with the job he's doing? |
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Post by winsumluzsum on Mar 31, 2024 20:35:20 GMT
Returning to the topic of formations we could deploy going forwards perhaps the slightest tweak would be to go from a 3-4-2-1 to a 3-4-1-2, with Brooks ir Wilson playing as a 10, and Johnson playing with either James or Moore.
Facing Johnson and James up front would be a scary prospect for any opposition, and would strengthen us further as a potential counter-attacking side. The question would still be whether or not Ampadu and Jordan James would be able to supply sufficient bullets.
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