FIFA World Rankings

[Deleted]

Nov 3, 2010 15:33:56 GMT yrarglwyddlucan said:

"Deserved". That's the sort of bullshit Flynn utters.

Stern, but fair.

[saints19]

We didn't really deserve anything. Perhaps a draw in Montenegro, where I thought we had them on the ropes in the last 20 minutes, but that's about it. Against Bulgaria, you could argue we might have got a draw but we were very poor indeed. Against Switzerland, the penalty decision for their third was a joke, but we could only have blamed ourselves for their other three goals.

I am very surprised we lost the first three games. I thought, based on our squad and who we were playing against, that we'd have had at least 3 points at this stage, but that emphasises how badly we've done, and those that want to stick with Flynn have to ask themselves if they want to see us playing valiant free-flowing football yet lose our next five games.

[Deleted]

Nov 3, 2010 15:57:27 GMT saints19 said:

We didn't really deserve anything. Perhaps a draw in Montenegro, where I thought we had them on the ropes in the last 20 minutes, but that's about it. Against Bulgaria, you could argue we might have got a draw but we were very poor indeed. Against Switzerland, the penalty decision for their third was a joke, but we could only have blamed ourselves for their other three goals.

I am very surprised we lost the first three games. I thought, based on our squad and who we were playing against, that we'd have had at least 3 points at this stage, but that emphasises how badly we've done, and those that want to stick with Flynn have to ask themselves if they want to see us playing valiant free-flowing football yet lose our next five games.

But they do! Thats the madness of it all, they couldnt care if we lose so long as we manage to string 7 or 8 passes together.

Maybe Uefa are handing out points for artistic merit these days? Who knows.

The aim of any game or competition is to win and we should never lose sight of that fact

[flynnfan]

Could someone please explain to me how the hell Azerbaijan are head of us in the rankings? Seriously. We've played them 6 times in the last 8 years. We've won 5 and drawn 1. We had them in our last group, beat them twice and finished 5 points above them. So how exactly are they above us?! It truly does not make any sense to me, which is why I generally try to ignore the rankings. I really don't know how FIFA makes this stuff up.

[saints19]

I wouldn't agee that it's all about winning personally; I hate to see overly physical teams, teams that cheat, or clubs in the Premiership that are so bent on finishing outside the bottom three that they squeeze all the life out of their play.

I just think there's a balance to be drawn and Flynn's two games have seen far too much improvisation and not enough organisation. It's worse than when Toshack was in charge, when we often lost but at least looked vaguely difficult to break down.

[saints19]

Nov 3, 2010 16:10:56 GMT flynnfan said:

Could someone please explain to me how the hell Azerbaijan are head of us in the rankings? Seriously. We've played them 6 times in the last 8 years. We've won 5 and drawn 1. We had them in our last group, beat them twice and finished 5 points above them. So how exactly are they above us?! It truly does not make any sense to me, which is why I generally try to ignore the rankings. I really don't know how FIFA makes this stuff up.

They've beaten Turkey recently. That would seem to be the basis of that one.

I agree, it's total madness. No-one can seriously argue that Azerbaijan are better than us.

[Deleted]

Nov 3, 2010 16:10:56 GMT flynnfan said:

Could someone please explain to me how the hell Azerbaijan are head of us in the rankings? Seriously. We've played them 6 times in the last 8 years. We've won 5 and drawn 1. We had them in our last group, beat them twice and finished 5 points above them. So how exactly are they above us?! It truly does not make any sense to me, which is why I generally try to ignore the rankings. I really don't know how FIFA makes this stuff up.

Head to head is irrelevant, if it was I would imagine it would be practically impossible to compile a rankings list.

Logically it means that although we usually beat them we have not beaten anybody else of note in the last 4 years (which lets be fair is spot on) and in the mean time they have taken one or two scalps which boosted them above us.

If we played them tomorrow its not a foregone conclusion we would win, although with the side we would put out it bloody well should be. If that doesnt give some perspective on how bad things are then I dont know what does.

[youngdragon]

we are a better side than azerbaijan no doubt
but they deserve to be higher than us becuase they have got better results

the way we have been recently we could play turkey 30 times
and im guessing there would be 27 turkey wins and 3 draws

[cilmeri]

Following from GerorgeTM in another thread predicting a collapse, we're down to 111th.

www.fifa.com/worldfootball/ranking/lastranking/gender=m/fullranking.html#confederation=0&rank=198&page=3

Looks like we lost points for beating liechtenstein 4 years ago, and then didn't play last month.

(I know the general consensus is that these rankings don't really matter, but I think they're a general guide, and we have got England next.)

[saints19]

We're also down to 46th in the UEFA ranking. That's pretty seriously bad. We've lost about 35 World ranking places as well as 8 UEFA ranking places in 2010.

This must be one of our worst ever years.

[youngdragon]

and in our next 5 games we have england twice and the republic

i think im going to be sick

[saints19]

On the positive side, if we get a result against England and/or Ireland we'll fly up the rankings. Montenegro have done that on the back of just a few impressive results. As I think I mentioned before, the ranking system distorts the picture somewhat by being a 4-year system, because it has the opposite problem to the 8-year system used before. Change it to 6 years, I reckon.

[youngdragon]

i dont think the duration of the system is really much of a problem
at present its a four year system but you can change it to 6,8,10 or 12 hell even change it to 20 year system but it wont make a differance really if you not getting results

[caradocevans]

Great time to become Wales manager. Dreadful ranking but promising players coming through. A couple of wins and you will look like a miracle worker. C'mon Giggsy, do the decent thing.

[georgetm1]

Nov 18, 2010 15:43:57 GMT caradocevans said:

Great time to become Wales manager. Dreadful ranking but promising players coming through. A couple of wins and you will look like a miracle worker. C'mon Giggsy, do the decent thing.

Giggs almost missed more games than he played. He is a traitor to the shirt. Someone who has the voice of a nervous ten year old should not be anywhere near Welsh management.

Regarding the Fifa ranking. Shame on you FAW, they have been caught with their pants down yet again. We need radical changes asap not these tiny little baby steps they seem to be doing. This is what we get by listening to their ' next qualification group' bullshit. Are they actually happy with the state we are in now? They seem to be unaccountable for their poor behaviour and they don't seem to have realised that its because of there incompetence that we have extremely low attendances and public and media apathy.

[scoop76]

We have got to improve our ranking before the end of this campaign, or else we'll be 5th seeds for the World Cup qualifiers. We got unlucky by drawing an excellent 5th place side this time round - but we're bound to get an even tougher 4th placed opponent.

[saints19]

At the moment, it realistically looks like we'll be in the fifth pot of seeds at best. It could even be pot 6, along with San Marino and Andorra - Azerbaijan are hot on our heels in the co-efficient rankings used to calculate pot seedings, and have two very winnable games against Kazakhstan to play in their group. If they pick up a further six points (nine total), we will have to get at least 5 points to stay in pot 5 even.

Of course there are other permutations, but basically it looks like us and Azerbaijan slogging it out for a coveted pot 5 place. What a disappointment this campaign has been.

I don't know off by heart what would be required for us to retain our fourth seeding. We'd probably need something like the four wins that Flynn said he thought was realistic the other day. I hope he's right.

[Deleted]

Nov 18, 2010 16:56:43 GMT georgetm1 said:

Nov 18, 2010 15:43:57 GMT caradocevans said:

Great time to become Wales manager. Dreadful ranking but promising players coming through. A couple of wins and you will look like a miracle worker. C'mon Giggsy, do the decent thing.

Giggs almost missed more games than he played. He is a traitor to the shirt. Someone who has the voice of a nervous ten year old should not be anywhere near Welsh management.

Regarding the Fifa ranking. Shame on you FAW, they have been caught with their pants down yet again. We need radical changes asap not these tiny little baby steps they seem to be doing. This is what we get by listening to their ' next qualification group' bullshit. Are they actually happy with the state we are in now? They seem to be unaccountable for their poor behaviour and they don't seem to have realised that its because of there incompetence that we have extremely low attendances and public and media apathy.

I would argue the opposite. Hindsight is obviously a wonderful thing, but I did say at the time when Savage was dropped that the changes by Tosh were far too radical. There was no real attempt at continuity as he was only too eager to ditch established decent(ish) players in favour of youngsters who needed to be eased in gently, not given a flurry of caps overnight in the belief that it would automatically make them a good player. Look at Nyatanga, 20 odd caps he got during the Tosh years, does it mean hes a good player? The harsh reality is that he will likely not get another one now Tosh has gone. I think we are more than likely to pick someone else from League 1 than play him again.

Tosh decided to forsake short term results in favour of long term development and at the end of 6 years of Tosh we have a youngish side but with only two top quality players (possibly a 3rd in Allen) and yet an all time low in the rankings and pot placements. Is that really what we imagined 6 years ago? Northern Ireland have arguably a lesser side and yet they get better results. Was it really all worth it?

[Deleted]

We'll be in the top 30 on a couple of years.

[youngdragon]

with the present number of caps and age of alot of our players
in a few years say 2016-2018 we should be as a minimum top 20
really looking at top 10

[Deleted]

Nov 18, 2010 20:50:56 GMT youngdragon said:

with the present number of caps and age of alot of our players
in a few years say 2016-2018 we should be as a minimum top 20
really looking at top 10

With respect, what is that based on?

To hit those sorts of heights we would need to be winning against quality teams consistently from as soon as the 2012 qualifiers. Taking into account the state we are in currently we will be nowhere near achieving that. We do not have enough quality players coming through, Ramsey Bale and Allen with a few decent pros to support them is not good enough to be top 20 let alone 10. Also how likely is that those 3 will play in the same side for us regularly given our injury record?

Our goal between now and 2015 should be just making ourselves competitive again and targeting pot 3. I think it will be a while before we are competing for qualification again.

[youngdragon]

based on ramsey taking scotland apart at the tender age of 18 will only get better
bale currently the worlds best
in thier prime will be unplayable
add a in prime collison,allen,king to that and we IMO should be aiming for that

maybe top 10 is slightly over estimating but top 20 is a realistic goal

[Deleted]

Nov 18, 2010 21:52:17 GMT youngdragon said:

based on ramsey taking scotland apart at the tender age of 18 will only get better
bale currently the worlds best
in thier prime will be unplayable
add a in prime collison,allen,king to that and we IMO should be aiming for that

maybe top 10 is slightly over estimating but top 20 is a realistic goal

Totally agree with your optimistic viewpoint youngdragon. Storm is getting more and more depressed with every post.

[Deleted]

Nov 18, 2010 22:27:45 GMT @baresi said:

Nov 18, 2010 21:52:17 GMT youngdragon said:

based on ramsey taking scotland apart at the tender age of 18 will only get better
bale currently the worlds best
in thier prime will be unplayable
add a in prime collison,allen,king to that and we IMO should be aiming for that

maybe top 10 is slightly over estimating but top 20 is a realistic goal

Totally agree with your optimistic viewpoint youngdragon. Storm is getting more and more depressed with every post.

No offence, but I think we make ourselves look ridiculous with the way we talk ourselves up. We are 111th in the rankings and cant win a game against poor opposition and yet people predict we will be top 20 in 5 years time based on potential that has no guarantees and only slight empirical basis.

Why dont we take each game as it comes and see how things develop? We need to get the new man in first, then beat Ireland to get some confidence on board and take it from there.

[youngdragon]

im not saying storm is depressing
im just saying that the current crop in thier prime will be excellent. the ability is there and most already have a bunch of caps so the experiance will be there aswell
plus in 5 years time the current u16 who are the best we have had for a long time will then be joining with the seniors.

[cilmeri]

I'm with storm on this one. Top 10 is ridiculous (although Egypt are there....)

Give me qualification for one world cup and a ranking of 150th for 10 years and I'll still be happy.

[caradocevans]

Nov 18, 2010 16:56:43 GMT georgetm1 said:

Giggs almost missed more games than he played. He is a traitor to the shirt. Someone who has the voice of a nervous ten year old should not be anywhere near Welsh management.

You mean he missed lots of meaningless friendlies. Who cares? Not me. Giggs would have the respect of the players. The part-time Wales fans (which is the overwhelming majority) would love it. The media would love it, too. If he was available (which, sadly, he ain't) it would be a complete no-brainer.

As for rankings, we have the potential to go much higher than we are at present but top 20 is a tad optimistic.

[llannerch]

You assume a top 20 ranking is unlikely because we are so far off that spot now but it's largely irrelevant.

All we have to do is improve our result against that achieved in the corresponding fixture 4 years earlier. The mathematical calculation allows for huge leaps up the rankings. A factor more relevant than our far we have to improve, is whether we can attract highly-ranked opposition for friendlies.

[saints19]

We could easily be top 20 in 5 years' time. Montenegro are on the fringe of this now, and they have done it despite finishing last in their previous qualifying group.

This highlights the weakness of the 4-year ranking system.

[youngdragon]

exactley my point
and if they had beaten england they would probably be knocking on the top 10 door

makes you wonder what could have been this campaign
all winable games we lost we land 111
montenagro had all wineable games got the results and are now 21