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Post by reyrey on Jul 12, 2024 17:21:39 GMT
Bellamy is in for a tough ride. How many of our players regularly feature for clubs in the top division of Europe's big 5 leagues? 3 by my reckoning. Isnt the Championship one of the big 5 leagues? |
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Post by bobbyghoul on Jul 12, 2024 18:07:37 GMT
Bellamy is in for a tough ride. How many of our players regularly feature for clubs in the top division of Europe's big 5 leagues? 3 by my reckoning. Isnt the Championship one of the big 5 leagues? No. England, Spain, Italy, Germany, France. The Championship is the 9th richest league in Europe. |
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Post by talyfan on Jul 12, 2024 19:43:06 GMT
9th richest league plenty good enough. We've been done in loads of times recently with players playing their trade in Denmark, Middle East, Armenia etc.
Not winning championships anytime soon but good enough to qualify.
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Post by winsumluzsum on Jul 12, 2024 20:47:14 GMT
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Post by bobbyghoul on Jul 12, 2024 22:07:14 GMT
A 22% increase over the last season and includes the play offs. The Championship is a decent league, if overly long, but we really need players playing at a higher level if possible. |
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Post by surge on Jul 13, 2024 10:50:55 GMT
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Post by rushy on Jul 13, 2024 13:35:40 GMT
The Championship is so competitive and very entertaining, I think the important thing is our players playing regularly, including a GK and if it has to be this level for most, so be it.
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Post by morg on Jul 13, 2024 14:38:22 GMT
Interesting article. If this is what he brings to Wales, I'll be delighted. Well defined system, thorough research, players left in no doubt as to their role or subsequent contribution. Played at the highest level earning respect but has had enough knock backs to be empathetic also. May not work out as the task is a big one but it won't be boring or lacklustre. |
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Post by surge on Jul 13, 2024 15:09:07 GMT
Interesting article. If this is what he brings to Wales, I'll be delighted. Well defined system, thorough research, players left in no doubt as to their role or subsequent contribution. Played at the highest level earning respect but has had enough knock backs to be empathetic also. May not work out as the task is a big one but it won't be boring or lacklustre. I agree with this. I just hope he gets a proper chance including having the right team around him, even if that's more difficult due to potentially reduced budget, and being given time. We need to be at our best too as fans as part of that of course. A new chapter is starting. |
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Post by winsumluzsum on Jul 13, 2024 17:56:19 GMT
Understandable that at this early stage in his tenure that Bellamy was reluctant to indicate his preferred formation(s). However he will have decisions to make on this front regardless of what he says. The most fundamental decision is whether we go with 4 at the back or deploy wingbacks.
Going back as far as Yorath the decision to go with 4 or 5 at the back has been critical to the success, or otherwise, of so many of our managers. Having taken us to the brink of Euro qualification with 5 at the back Yorath, at the start of the next qualification campaign went to a flat back 4 away to Romania. After going 5 nil down at halftime he reverted to 5 at the back for the second half and rest of the campaign, which ended agonisingly with that Bodin penalty.
Hughes, Speed and Giggs all achieved relative success with a back 4, whereas Coleman and, to a lesser extent Page, succeeded more with wingbacks than with a back 4.
I don't have a definitive view on the matter. The dilemma can be summed up I believe as follows: most of our players are best suited to a wingback system (especially Neco, Roberts and Davies) and we look the most balanced with that system. However this means fielding only 3 attacking players rather than 4, even though we have more quality attacking players than further back.
It will be intriguing to see which way Bellamy goes with this. My gut feeling is that he will go with a back 4, probably in a 4-3-3.
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Post by iot on Jul 13, 2024 20:47:48 GMT
Understandable that at this early stage in his tenure that Bellamy was reluctant to indicate his preferred formation(s). However he will have decisions to make on this front regardless of what he says. The most fundamental decision is whether we go with 4 at the back or deploy wingbacks. Going back as far as Yorath the decision to go with 4 or 5 at the back has been critical to the success, or otherwise, of so many of our managers. Having taken us to the brink of Euro qualification with 5 at the back Yorath, at the start of the next qualification campaign went to a flat back 4 away to Romania. After going 5 nil down at halftime he reverted to 5 at the back for the second half and rest of the campaign, which ended agonisingly with that Bodin penalty. Hughes, Speed and Giggs all achieved relative success with a back 4, whereas Coleman and, to a lesser extent Page, succeeded more with wingbacks than with a back 4. I don't have a definitive view on the matter. The dilemma can be summed up I believe as follows: most of our players are best suited to a wingback system (especially Neco, Roberts and Davies) and we look the most balanced with that system. However this means fielding only 3 attacking players rather than 4, even though we have more quality attacking players than further back. It will be intriguing to see which way Bellamy goes with this. My gut feeling is that he will go with a back 4, probably in a 4-3-3. When Bellamy says he wants us to play in different shapes, not set formations - I don’t think it’s a soundbite he’s trying to use for effect or to make him look clever, I suspect it’s the way football is headed. I think Kompany made a similar comment when they were tearing up the championship and seemingly alternating their formation every 5 minutes |
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Post by winsumluzsum on Jul 13, 2024 21:03:55 GMT
That's a perfectly valid point and it will be intriguing to see how that plays out. However there is still a clear decision to be made in whether you field 3 or 2 centre backs. If Bellamy selects Rodon and Davies and not Mepham then we can be confident the core structure is based around 4 at the back. Equally if Bellamy selects Neco, Roberts, Mepham, Rodon and Davies then we can be confident that our core formation is based on the deployment of wingbacks.
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Post by winsumluzsum on Jul 13, 2024 21:12:11 GMT
I guess one possibility that muddies the waters is if you deploy a system that is notionally 4 at the back but under certain circumstances get a DM (probably Ampadu in our case) dropping between the centre backs to form a 3 or 5.
My impression is that teams that are set up to attack with a great deal of fluidity of shape still tend to be set up to defend in more restricted formations and shape. So perhaps with Bellamy we will only be able to talk about formations and shape in relation to the defensive phase.
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Post by winsumluzsum on Jul 13, 2024 21:34:45 GMT
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Post by allezlesrouges on Jul 13, 2024 21:51:34 GMT
That's a perfectly valid point and it will be intriguing to see how that plays out. However there is still a clear decision to be made in whether you field 3 or 2 centre backs. If Bellamy selects Rodon and Davies and not Mepham then we can be confident the core structure is based around 4 at the back. Equally if Bellamy selects Neco, Roberts, Mepham, Rodon and Davies then we can be confident that our core formation is based on the deployment of wingbacks. Not necessarily because the way Bellamy talks is about positioning being situational. You can play 2 CBs and end up in situations that look like a back 3 with Ampadu dropping in, or one of the full backs moving across situationally. Or you could play with 3 CBs and one of them steps out into midfield/fullback situationally So it's not a set formation, it's "you need to be here when the ball is here" way of looking at it. This is what Pep and a lot of other top managers do, Stones often looks more like a midfielder in possession, but is down as a defender on the team sheet |
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Post by winsumluzsum on Jul 13, 2024 22:27:48 GMT
That's a perfectly valid point and it will be intriguing to see how that plays out. However there is still a clear decision to be made in whether you field 3 or 2 centre backs. If Bellamy selects Rodon and Davies and not Mepham then we can be confident the core structure is based around 4 at the back. Equally if Bellamy selects Neco, Roberts, Mepham, Rodon and Davies then we can be confident that our core formation is based on the deployment of wingbacks. Not necessarily because the way Bellamy talks is about positioning being situational. You can play 2 CBs and end up in situations that look like a back 3 with Ampadu dropping in, or one of the full backs moving across situationally. Or you could play with 3 CBs and one of them steps out into midfield/fullback situationally So it's not a set formation, it's "you need to be here when the ball is here" way of looking at it. This is what Pep and a lot of other top managers do, Stones often looks more like a midfielder in possession, but is down as a defender on the team sheet All valid points, and I'd already made the point about Ampadu dropping back between the centre backs. But you still have to make choices about the players you select. I suspect Bellamy will select 4 notional defenders (e.g. Davies, Rodon, Neco and Mepham) rather than 5 (also Roberts). That article I linked to certainly indicates that Kompany's Burnley played last season with 2 notional centre backs. It will be interesting to see if Bellamy is pressed for further clarity on this, or will we just have to wait and see what unfolds. |
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Post by allezlesrouges on Jul 13, 2024 22:48:30 GMT
Not necessarily because the way Bellamy talks is about positioning being situational. You can play 2 CBs and end up in situations that look like a back 3 with Ampadu dropping in, or one of the full backs moving across situationally. Or you could play with 3 CBs and one of them steps out into midfield/fullback situationally So it's not a set formation, it's "you need to be here when the ball is here" way of looking at it. This is what Pep and a lot of other top managers do, Stones often looks more like a midfielder in possession, but is down as a defender on the team sheet All valid points, and I'd already made the point about Ampadu dropping back between the centre backs. But you still have to make choices about the players you select. I suspect Bellamy will select 4 notional defenders (e.g. Davies, Rodon, Neco and Mepham) rather than 5 (also Roberts). That article I linked to certainly indicates that Kompany's Burnley played last season with 2 notional centre backs. It will be interesting to see if Bellamy is pressed for further clarity on this, or will we just have to wait and see what unfolds. For what it's worth I agree. But I'd add that it will be 2 notional CBs plus Ampadu & Ben Davies who can both play CB + another position - that creates a lot of opportunities for overloads/movement |
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Post by talyfan on Jul 13, 2024 22:51:06 GMT
I think one issue is the back 5 is ideal for our best XI but if the likes of Roberts and Neco got injured, we've not got many players who are natural there. With how they are the wingbacks are absolutely pivotal to the function of the team. If you've got players who aren't suitable playing there you can make it really difficult for yourself.
More often than not we have either played a winger there (Sorba, Burns, James etc.) or would have to put a more defensive minded full back there. We then sort hamstring ourselves by shoehorning these players to fill in. The nature of a wing back to absolutely runs them ragged, fairly common not to finish a game.
What will be important for Bellamy is either identifying a way of playing and sticking to it with the squad selection mirroring that. Or having the tactical flexibility to understand that there will be need of a plan B in case these things which are likely to happen.
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Post by bobbyghoul on Jul 14, 2024 8:24:51 GMT
Understandable that at this early stage in his tenure that Bellamy was reluctant to indicate his preferred formation(s). However he will have decisions to make on this front regardless of what he says. The most fundamental decision is whether we go with 4 at the back or deploy wingbacks. Going back as far as Yorath the decision to go with 4 or 5 at the back has been critical to the success, or otherwise, of so many of our managers. Having taken us to the brink of Euro qualification with 5 at the back Yorath, at the start of the next qualification campaign went to a flat back 4 away to Romania. After going 5 nil down at halftime he reverted to 5 at the back for the second half and rest of the campaign, which ended agonisingly with that Bodin penalty. Hughes, Speed and Giggs all achieved relative success with a back 4, whereas Coleman and, to a lesser extent Page, succeeded more with wingbacks than with a back 4. I don't have a definitive view on the matter. The dilemma can be summed up I believe as follows: most of our players are best suited to a wingback system (especially Neco, Roberts and Davies) and we look the most balanced with that system. However this means fielding only 3 attacking players rather than 4, even though we have more quality attacking players than further back. It will be intriguing to see which way Bellamy goes with this. My gut feeling is that he will go with a back 4, probably in a 4-3-3. When Bellamy says he wants us to play in different shapes, not set formations - I don’t think it’s a soundbite he’s trying to use for effect or to make him look clever, I suspect it’s the way football is headed. I think Kompany made a similar comment when they were tearing up the championship and seemingly alternating their formation every 5 minutes Years ago Slavan Bilic said formations were irrelevant once the ball was in play. |
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Post by jbt95 on Jul 14, 2024 9:48:01 GMT
But we need to finish first if we want a back up play off spot! Finishing first would help but Winning our nation league group would not guarantee a World Cup play off spot. It’s the 4 best placed nation league teams that fail to come first or second in the World Cup qualifiers who will get a play off spot. It’s the four best group winners who do not finish top 2 of their qualifying group for the World Cup. It’s a pretty safe bet that the four League A winners will finish top two, so winning our Nations League group is a strong back up. |
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Post by eppingblue1 on Jul 14, 2024 10:45:48 GMT
Finishing first would help but Winning our nation league group would not guarantee a World Cup play off spot. It’s the 4 best placed nation league teams that fail to come first or second in the World Cup qualifiers who will get a play off spot. It’s the four best group winners who do not finish top 2 of their qualifying group for the World Cup. It’s a pretty safe bet that the four League A winners will finish top two, so winning our Nations League group is a strong back up. There's an argument for not wanting to go up this time and relying on the play offs for the world cup. And that's not the advantage of seeding but the position we could be in come the 26/27 nations league. If we go up then we'd almost certainly gain one of the UK / Ireland host places. If we go up now then realistically we're likely to get relegated then although with all these play offs that's less clear. But given the choice I'd sooner a host place for 28 than a play off for 26 |
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Post by jbt95 on Jul 14, 2024 11:09:53 GMT
It’s the four best group winners who do not finish top 2 of their qualifying group for the World Cup. It’s a pretty safe bet that the four League A winners will finish top two, so winning our Nations League group is a strong back up. There's an argument for not wanting to go up this time and relying on the play offs for the world cup. And that's not the advantage of seeding but the position we could be in come the 26/27 nations league. If we go up then we'd almost certainly gain one of the UK / Ireland host places. If we go up now then realistically we're likely to get relegated then although with all these play offs that's less clear. But given the choice I'd sooner a host place for 28 than a play off for 26 The next euro qualifying format has not been confirmed. The format has to change due to the new Nations League format. I imagine the 5 host countries will be pot 1, and they may split pot 2 into stronger and weaker sides ensuring we get a weak pot 2 team. |
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Post by rushy on Jul 14, 2024 11:34:51 GMT
IF Bellamy copies Kompany in style of play that has to be a concern, Burnley got relegated simply because Kompany refused to change and accept his system didn't work.
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Post by 1gwaunview on Jul 14, 2024 11:59:09 GMT
I hope he doesn't make tactics too complicated for the players, we're not a club side. With limited times together as has been mentioned above, simplicity should be the order of the day. Look where Burnley's season ended.
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Post by cogancoronation31 on Jul 14, 2024 16:19:06 GMT
I agree with 1gwaunview!
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Post by ccfcwelshlad on Aug 3, 2024 8:41:05 GMT
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Post by surge on Aug 3, 2024 14:05:53 GMT
There's a report on Wales online now too.
Reading the report, I think recently the Premier League has been the best league in the world and the least like international football. That might change over next few years but for now it's a case of how to manage two games in a window and get the results needed.
But it's early days and we need some excitement pumped back into Welsh football. I do think we're at our best when enjoying the process, including committing to good habits, and making sure we have grass routes strong and ensuring our nation's children are comfortable with healthy health and fitness goals before they join an academy/outside the time spent at an academy.
I also agree that we have plenty of reasons to be excited going forward in terms of players who haven't yet shown their full potential and how nations as small as ours have made a mark in tournaments.
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Post by morg on Aug 3, 2024 17:46:59 GMT
Saying/doing the right things for me so far.
Using the likes of 2002 South Korea as an example of a successful template of what a 'smaller' nation can achieve.
Wants to bring the highest standards of professionalism to the set up.
Our squad's stats show that a high energy game plan is possible.
Name checks Brennan as someone he effectively wants to build the team around.
Limited games doesn't mean that this is anything less than a full time job. He sees himself as being the head of Welsh football not just the 1st Team.
Gives the impression of retaining all his passion but with a far more considered approach.
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Post by pontyrugby on Aug 3, 2024 18:35:31 GMT
Saying/doing the right things for me so far. Using the likes of 2002 South Korea as an example of a successful template of what a 'smaller' nation can achieve. Wants to bring the highest standards of professionalism to the set up. Our squad's stats show that a high energy game plan is possible. Name checks Brennan as someone he effectively wants to build the team around. Limited games doesn't mean that this is anything less than a full time job. He sees himself as being the head of Welsh football not just the 1st Team. Gives the impression of retaining all his passion but with a far more considered approach. If he thinks a nation of 52 million is a smaller nation, he's in for shock when he finds out the population of Cymru. |
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Post by athenempadu on Aug 3, 2024 23:10:41 GMT
All valid points, and I'd already made the point about Ampadu dropping back between the centre backs. But you still have to make choices about the players you select. I suspect Bellamy will select 4 notional defenders (e.g. Davies, Rodon, Neco and Mepham) rather than 5 (also Roberts). That article I linked to certainly indicates that Kompany's Burnley played last season with 2 notional centre backs. It will be interesting to see if Bellamy is pressed for further clarity on this, or will we just have to wait and see what unfolds. For what it's worth I agree. But I'd add that it will be 2 notional CBs plus Ampadu & Ben Davies who can both play CB + another position - that creates a lot of opportunities for overloads/movement I wonder where Owen Beck will fit in, these modern tactics seem to suit him. |
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