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Post by iot on Aug 23, 2024 9:18:03 GMT
I'm wondering what the main objective will be for Bellamy and his 'forward thinking' coaches when we begin our new campaign in a few weeks time. The ultimate goal (excuse the pun}, should be qualification of whichever competition we enter, but coaches today appear more obsessed with style of play over achieving results. I don't think experimenting in different systems with players who are mostly not at the top level is the way to go and could be disastrous for us, with the probability of conceding more goals inevitable imo. This is not meant to be negative towards anyone, I just hope the approach and attitude of Bellamy and his team of coaches realise that every result matters in international football and should be the priority , and not just aesthetically pleasing to a certain few. I think this is a bit of an exaggeration. I definitely think there's some truth in it - that a lot of managers and coaches take pride in their style of play and want to play a certain way. But it's primarily driven by what has proven to be the most successful and effective way of playing football, not some principled position. Football is continually evolving - I bet 30 years ago there would have been very little attention to having different strategies for how to press the opposition - sure, 'pressing' isn't exactly a novel invention, but some decades ago I'm guessing it would have been much more sporadic and led by individuals as opposed to being coordinated, underpinned by strategies to set traps etc. The managers who don't keep up with current trends get found out. Without meaning to be disparaging, I think some fans in the older generation (my dad is like this) don't really get why most teams persist with trying to play through the lines, passing it around the back etc. You get a lot of it in Cardiff City games too where at any time there's say five passes played around the back you'll get numerous blokes shouting impatiently 'FORWARD'. But the point they're missing (and I think you're missing here) is that they're not doing it for the aesthetics, or because they think they're better than they are, or out of some principled position - they're doing it because that's how you beat the press and generally win football games. Very few managers play old-school direct football these days and with good reason. Like it or not, Bellamy is 100% going to adopt a progressive style of football where there will be a lot of passing around the back, interchanging positions and attempts to create overloads in different parts of the pitch - and wanting to have that style of play and wanting to achieve results are not mutually exclusive things (the opposite in fact). If we don't get results early on, you're going to be disappointed if you think he and the rest of his coaching staff will suddenly drop all of that for a more old-school, direct approach. They'll simply redouble their efforts. I think there's a good chance it will take some time for things to really click, and I just hope that us fans can be patient with it. |
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Post by winsumluzsum on Aug 23, 2024 10:00:01 GMT
I'm wondering what the main objective will be for Bellamy and his 'forward thinking' coaches when we begin our new campaign in a few weeks time. The ultimate goal (excuse the pun}, should be qualification of whichever competition we enter, but coaches today appear more obsessed with style of play over achieving results. I don't think experimenting in different systems with players who are mostly not at the top level is the way to go and could be disastrous for us, with the probability of conceding more goals inevitable imo. This is not meant to be negative towards anyone, I just hope the approach and attitude of Bellamy and his team of coaches realise that every result matters in international football and should be the priority , and not just aesthetically pleasing to a certain few. I think this is a bit of an exaggeration. I definitely think there's some truth in it - that a lot of managers and coaches take pride in their style of play and want to play a certain way. But it's primarily driven by what has proven to be the most successful and effective way of playing football, not some principled position. Football is continually evolving - I bet 30 years ago there would have been very little attention to having different strategies for how to press the opposition - sure, 'pressing' isn't exactly a novel invention, but some decades ago I'm guessing it would have been much more sporadic and led by individuals as opposed to being coordinated, underpinned by strategies to set traps etc. The managers who don't keep up with current trends get found out. Without meaning to be disparaging, I think some fans in the older generation (my dad is like this) don't really get why most teams persist with trying to play through the lines, passing it around the back etc. You get a lot of it in Cardiff City games too where at any time there's say five passes played around the back you'll get numerous blokes shouting impatiently 'FORWARD'. But the point they're missing (and I think you're missing here) is that they're not doing it for the aesthetics, or because they think they're better than they are, or out of some principled position - they're doing it because that's how you beat the press and generally win football games. Very few managers play old-school direct football these days and with good reason. Like it or not, Bellamy is 100% going to adopt a progressive style of football where there will be a lot of passing around the back, interchanging positions and attempts to create overloads in different parts of the pitch - and wanting to have that style of play and wanting to achieve results are not mutually exclusive things (the opposite in fact). If we don't get results early on, you're going to be disappointed if you think he and the rest of his coaching staff will suddenly drop all of that for a more old-school, direct approach. They'll simply redouble their efforts. I think there's a good chance it will take some time for things to really click, and I just hope that us fans can be patient with it. This exactly how I see it, although you expressed it a lot better than I could. It never ceases to amaze me the number of Swansea fans want a more direct style and to set up in a 4-4-2. As if Martinez, Rodgers, Laudrup and Potter had never managed the club. To be fair Martin did take things to an extreme which did seem to indicate an obsession with possession over results. However, that's not an argument for the polar opposite. |
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Post by allezlesrouges on Aug 23, 2024 11:28:13 GMT
Piet Cremers has also part of Bellamy's staff. Info about him below sounds promising
"Dutchman Cremers was head of performance analysis and insights at Manchester City under Guardiola for four years, before working alongside Bellamy as an assistant coach to Vincent Kompany at Burnley."
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Post by allezlesrouges on Aug 23, 2024 12:02:19 GMT
I'm wondering what the main objective will be for Bellamy and his 'forward thinking' coaches when we begin our new campaign in a few weeks time. The ultimate goal (excuse the pun}, should be qualification of whichever competition we enter, but coaches today appear more obsessed with style of play over achieving results. I don't think experimenting in different systems with players who are mostly not at the top level is the way to go and could be disastrous for us, with the probability of conceding more goals inevitable imo. This is not meant to be negative towards anyone, I just hope the approach and attitude of Bellamy and his team of coaches realise that every result matters in international football and should be the priority , and not just aesthetically pleasing to a certain few. In his talk he did in Cardiff recently he said something like this, I will be paraphrasing... "People talk about playing out from the back and keeping possession as if we're doing it to give ourselves a pat on the back for looking pretty. No, it's not about that. Everything we ask the team to do on the pitch is about increasing the chance of us scoring a goal or being more effective" His philosophy isn't to just keep the ball for the sake of it, it's about offensive and defensive control Keep the ball more and get up the pitch into better areas - you increase your chance of scoring & decrease time on the ball for the opposition Press higher and defend higher - you limit the space the opposition can play in and take the initiative more We may end up conceding goals from playing out, but is that really worse than conceding because we got penned in and had to keep lumping it up to the big man? Old heads think that's not as bad because of how it looks, but a goal conceded is a goal conceded, and if you play the percentages better then you increase your chance of winning Excited to see what Bellamy can do! |
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Post by surge on Aug 23, 2024 12:57:25 GMT
Giggs tried to do something similar when he staeted and our crowd didn't really know how to react.
It's a lot easier to make noise when watching 'up-and-at-em' football than 5-10 mins of controlled passing.
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Post by allezlesrouges on Aug 23, 2024 14:35:08 GMT
Giggs tried to do something similar when he staeted and our crowd didn't really know how to react. It's a lot easier to make noise when watching 'up-and-at-em' football than 5-10 mins of controlled passing. But I don't think Giggs is really coming from the same coaching school as Bellamy. Bellamy is more influenced by Guardiola, Arteta, Kompany & De Zerbi, whereas Giggs seemed to be more of your generic, tidy in possession, steady European approach In the latter it's more about keeping the ball for possessions sake at times. The other coaches are trying to specifically control aspects of the game, but it's not possession just for the sake of possession Not to forget, that Burnley side scored a record number of goals at Championship level - they weren't a bore! |
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Post by rushy on Aug 23, 2024 16:36:10 GMT
I'm wondering what the main objective will be for Bellamy and his 'forward thinking' coaches when we begin our new campaign in a few weeks time. The ultimate goal (excuse the pun}, should be qualification of whichever competition we enter, but coaches today appear more obsessed with style of play over achieving results. I don't think experimenting in different systems with players who are mostly not at the top level is the way to go and could be disastrous for us, with the probability of conceding more goals inevitable imo. This is not meant to be negative towards anyone, I just hope the approach and attitude of Bellamy and his team of coaches realise that every result matters in international football and should be the priority , and not just aesthetically pleasing to a certain few. I think this is a bit of an exaggeration. I definitely think there's some truth in it - that a lot of managers and coaches take pride in their style of play and want to play a certain way. But it's primarily driven by what has proven to be the most successful and effective way of playing football, not some principled position. Football is continually evolving - I bet 30 years ago there would have been very little attention to having different strategies for how to press the opposition - sure, 'pressing' isn't exactly a novel invention, but some decades ago I'm guessing it would have been much more sporadic and led by individuals as opposed to being coordinated, underpinned by strategies to set traps etc. The managers who don't keep up with current trends get found out. Without meaning to be disparaging, I think some fans in the older generation (my dad is like this) don't really get why most teams persist with trying to play through the lines, passing it around the back etc. You get a lot of it in Cardiff City games too where at any time there's say five passes played around the back you'll get numerous blokes shouting impatiently 'FORWARD'. But the point they're missing (and I think you're missing here) is that they're not doing it for the aesthetics, or because they think they're better than they are, or out of some principled position - they're doing it because that's how you beat the press and generally win football games. Very few managers play old-school direct football these days and with good reason. Like it or not, Bellamy is 100% going to adopt a progressive style of football where there will be a lot of passing around the back, interchanging positions and attempts to create overloads in different parts of the pitch - and wanting to have that style of play and wanting to achieve results are not mutually exclusive things (the opposite in fact). If we don't get results early on, you're going to be disappointed if you think he and the rest of his coaching staff will suddenly drop all of that for a more old-school, direct approach. They'll simply redouble their efforts. I think there's a good chance it will take some time for things to really click, and I just hope that us fans can be patient with it. At no point have I said I like 'hoofball', and irrespective of what generation I may be from there is a validity to my concerns in the methods Bellamy will use. In my experience managers have always assessed a squad of players and chose the best system to get the best out of them results wise, now the emphasis is on coaches with 'new' ideas, but implementing such systems take time. Therefore whether we have the players to adopt to such tactics and how quickly they can change will be interesting, but I don't believe we should sacrifice results over style, otherwise I really want Bellamy and his team to do well and he will prove himself worthy in this privileged position a manager. |
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Post by iot on Aug 28, 2024 13:18:59 GMT
Just watched his press conference. Gave an interesting answer at the end on what short and long term success looks like. Basically said that results are going to be a secondary priority over the course of Nations League games. His main priority is to use them as a way of forming a clear identity that the squad understands and that they become adaptable so that they can play in different ways and respond to different situations (as opposed to having to wait until half time to change shape). He's a very different type of manager to Page. Really not sure how it's going to go at this point.
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Post by rushy on Aug 28, 2024 14:03:46 GMT
I'll be watching from behind the sofa after listening to that PC. 😨
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Post by allezlesrouges on Aug 28, 2024 14:52:29 GMT
I've listened to it and it didn't give me the impression that he will sacrifice results to play a certain way. More that success to him in the short term is getting the team to play in line with his principles
When you right it down people will be scared, but it didn't come across like that, felt more like him saying the sooner we play in line with the principles the better
The bloke is obsessed with winning and had already analysed how Turkey play EIGHT times before his presser where he was unveiled. He's clearly not taking these games lightly
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Post by iot on Aug 28, 2024 16:30:53 GMT
I've listened to it and it didn't give me the impression that he will sacrifice results to play a certain way. More that success to him in the short term is getting the team to play in line with his principles When you right it down people will be scared, but it didn't come across like that, felt more like him saying the sooner we play in line with the principles the better The bloke is obsessed with winning and had already analysed how Turkey play EIGHT times before his presser where he was unveiled. He's clearly not taking these games lightly I disagree. There's a choice to be made between prioritising results in the here and now and going for long term gain with potential short term pain. If he were prioritising results in these next games, he would probably take a more pragmatic and less ambitious approach. What I got strongly from his comments was that he's going to dive straight into the deep end with this new way of playing, accepting that some players will struggle with it initially, but there will be improvements from game to game with the hope that we will be able to play his way by the end of the 6-game period and in time for the qualifiers. The alternative would be to have a more transitional period from Page's more traditional set-up to the new way he wants us to play. For what it's worth, I agree with his approach. |
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Post by allezlesrouges on Aug 28, 2024 17:03:25 GMT
I've listened to it and it didn't give me the impression that he will sacrifice results to play a certain way. More that success to him in the short term is getting the team to play in line with his principles When you right it down people will be scared, but it didn't come across like that, felt more like him saying the sooner we play in line with the principles the better The bloke is obsessed with winning and had already analysed how Turkey play EIGHT times before his presser where he was unveiled. He's clearly not taking these games lightly I disagree. There's a choice to be made between prioritising results in the here and now and going for long term gain with potential short term pain. If he were prioritising results in these next games, he would probably take a more pragmatic and less ambitious approach. What I got strongly from his comments was that he's going to dive straight into the deep end with this new way of playing, accepting that some players will struggle with it initially, but there will be improvements from game to game with the hope that we will be able to play his way by the end of the 6-game period and in time for the qualifiers. The alternative would be to have a more transitional period from Page's more traditional set-up to the new way he wants us to play. For what it's worth, I agree with his approach. But he wants us to play that way cos he thinks it gives us the best chance of winning any given game. If the result goes well then great, and if we go too pragmatic then we don't move closer towards the ideal style of play. Halfway housing it would probably just be the worst of both worlds I think. I don't think a less ambitious approach necessarily increases the chance of a better result, so best to just go for it |
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Post by iot on Aug 28, 2024 17:12:23 GMT
I disagree. There's a choice to be made between prioritising results in the here and now and going for long term gain with potential short term pain. If he were prioritising results in these next games, he would probably take a more pragmatic and less ambitious approach. What I got strongly from his comments was that he's going to dive straight into the deep end with this new way of playing, accepting that some players will struggle with it initially, but there will be improvements from game to game with the hope that we will be able to play his way by the end of the 6-game period and in time for the qualifiers. The alternative would be to have a more transitional period from Page's more traditional set-up to the new way he wants us to play. For what it's worth, I agree with his approach. But he wants us to play that way cos he thinks it gives us the best chance of winning any given game. If the result goes well then great, and if we go too pragmatic then we don't move closer towards the ideal style of play. Halfway housing it would probably just be the worst of both worlds I think. I don't think a less ambitious approach necessarily increases the chance of a better result, so best to just go for it ‘But he wants us to play that way cos he thinks it gives us the best chance of winning any given game.’ Eventually when we get it right. But it’s going to take time to get it right, and I think he’s happy to sacrifice slightly results-wise to reach that point as quickly as possible. I think it’s pretty clear from the 3-4 min segment. He went on to say ‘of course I want to win every game, but…’ and spoke about making sure the squad could play his way by the end of the six game period was the main objective |
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Post by winsumluzsum on Aug 28, 2024 17:59:57 GMT
When Martinez took over at Swansea they were mid table, but they immediately stormed up the league and just missed out on the playoffs. Likewise when Potter took over, first game Swansea won at Sheffield United playing some superb football. If the coaching is good enough, the footballing concepts good enough, and there's buy in from the players then instant results are possible.
Being greedy, I think it's entirely possible we will get performances and results in the Nations League games.
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wft
savage
It's gone out for a throw in.
Posts: 111
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Post by wft on Aug 28, 2024 18:57:36 GMT
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Post by rushy on Aug 28, 2024 19:09:17 GMT
Bellamy will use the 6 Nation Lge. games to implement his ideas which may well not go as he would want results wise, but he intends to play HIS way no matter what.
I like his self confidence and enthusiasm and hope things work out for him.
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Post by insertname on Aug 28, 2024 19:41:34 GMT
When Martinez took over at Swansea they were mid table, but they immediately stormed up the league and just missed out on the playoffs. Likewise when Potter took over, first game Swansea won at Sheffield United playing some superb football. If the coaching is good enough, the footballing concepts good enough, and there's buy in from the players then instant results are possible. Being greedy, I think it's entirely possible we will get performances and results in the Nations League games. And conversely Russell Martin at Swansea- never delivered on what he was brought in to do. But given better players at Southampton it all clicked. A similar story at my local club too- guy very similar to Bellamy comes in, new to management, highly rated championship coach, idealistic, wants to change the culture and play progressive football, wait and the results will come etc. ended up getting sacked with the worst win percentage in the clubs history. Went elsewhere with better players and had a great season restoring his reputation. Which is to my point: when you can’t bring the players you want in you can have all the idealism in the world but you are likely to be limited in what you can achieve and right now, sorry, but the Wales squad is mostly bang average. Mid table championship stuff. I would be doubtful Bellamy could get meaningful change within ten games week in week out let alone over 3 weeks in 3 months. It’s a huge ask. So I wish him luck because the odds of success feel low with the restrictions against him (time, fixed player base, new to management). The only shred of comfort I take from it is that he sounds like he has capped it at 6 games, so the nations league. He has to because if it doesn’t work at international level there just aren’t the games to sacrifice before you start losing play off berths and slide down the rankings and then you’re really in trouble. All it can take is one or two soft goals while trying high risk press escapology and your campaign is over. |
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Post by iot on Aug 28, 2024 19:43:42 GMT
When Martinez took over at Swansea they were mid table, but they immediately stormed up the league and just missed out on the playoffs. Likewise when Potter took over, first game Swansea won at Sheffield United playing some superb football. If the coaching is good enough, the footballing concepts good enough, and there's buy in from the players then instant results are possible. Being greedy, I think it's entirely possible we will get performances and results in the Nations League games. Can't remember how Martinez started and when he joined, but Potter had a pre-season and week after week with his squad to get his ideas across, whereas Bellamy will start that process a few days before our first nations league game and then the players will go back to club football for a month a few days later. They are two very different scenarios. It's just common sense. If you ask players to do what Bellamy wants them to do, to constantly change positions, change the way they play mid game, details around the pressing etc. - that is going to take time. I guess you can get the broad strokes in over a few days training and team meetings, but it takes much longer to get the detail right. Crofts spoke at length on EJFOF a few months ago about how De Zerbi was completely obsessive, and spent weeks and months drilling into the players where they needed to be positioned in any given scenario so that when it comes to the game, the man on the ball would know where his teammates are without having to think. Guardiola's the same - there's a reason why a lot of their new signings struggle initially and spend the first few weeks/months on the bench before they're trusted and become accustomed to his way of playing. I get the strong impression that Bellamy is in the same mould |
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Post by allezlesrouges on Aug 28, 2024 21:06:29 GMT
Remember Giggs first games? The difference in style was immediately noticeable from Cookie's reign, didn't take him long at all to get us looking very different
As complex as a fully formed Pep/De Zerbi team is, we won't become our full version of Bellamy's Wales in the first few games. However, I think you will immediately see a few key differences
- A co-ordinated high press
- Planned moves to play out from the back
- A focus on controlling the game through both increased possession and more territory
- Targeting the weaknesses of the opposition
It doesn't take months to implement those to a decent level, it takes longer to perfect it but as I said I don't think the change in style will be a drawn out process, I think we'll start seeing it quickly
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Post by allezlesrouges on Aug 28, 2024 21:07:41 GMT
Also to labour the point, De Zerbi & Pep have to get their teams to a higher standards as they are playing in the best league in the world. International football isn't that, the standard is lower. Therefore to get results we don't have to be THAT much better
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Post by allezlesrouges on Aug 28, 2024 21:09:30 GMT
When Martinez took over at Swansea they were mid table, but they immediately stormed up the league and just missed out on the playoffs. Likewise when Potter took over, first game Swansea won at Sheffield United playing some superb football. If the coaching is good enough, the footballing concepts good enough, and there's buy in from the players then instant results are possible. Being greedy, I think it's entirely possible we will get performances and results in the Nations League games. I agree, I don't think it's always one or the other. I expect us to beat Montenegro home and away, the same for Iceland at home I think the campaign will boil down to Iceland away and the Turkey games. We might be able to take Turkey by surprise in the first game then we really will have impetus |
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Post by iot on Aug 28, 2024 21:14:50 GMT
Remember Giggs first games? The difference in style was immediately noticeable from Cookie's reign, didn't take him long at all to get us looking very different As complex as a fully formed Pep/De Zerbi team is, we won't become our full version of Bellamy's Wales in the first few games. However, I think you will immediately see a few key differences - A co-ordinated high press - Planned moves to play out from the back - A focus on controlling the game through both increased possession and more territory - Targeting the weaknesses of the opposition It doesn't take months to implement those to a decent level, it takes longer to perfect it but as I said I don't think the change in style will be a drawn out process, I think we'll start seeing it quickly Disagree on Giggs, there was no discernible style for most of his tenure - so much so that I remember him being pressed on it after losing out in Hungary and Croatia. He was asked to explain how he was trying to get us to play. He didn’t really manage to establish a clear style until Moore was brought in |
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Post by allezlesrouges on Aug 28, 2024 21:17:36 GMT
Remember Giggs first games? The difference in style was immediately noticeable from Cookie's reign, didn't take him long at all to get us looking very different As complex as a fully formed Pep/De Zerbi team is, we won't become our full version of Bellamy's Wales in the first few games. However, I think you will immediately see a few key differences - A co-ordinated high press - Planned moves to play out from the back - A focus on controlling the game through both increased possession and more territory - Targeting the weaknesses of the opposition It doesn't take months to implement those to a decent level, it takes longer to perfect it but as I said I don't think the change in style will be a drawn out process, I think we'll start seeing it quickly Disagree on Giggs, there was no discernible style for most of his tenure - so much so that I remember him being pressed on it after losing out in Hungary and Croatia. He was asked to explain how he was trying to get us to play. He didn’t really manage to establish a clear style until Moore was brought in We were far more possession oriented under Giggs, and that Ireland game where we spanked them we have 4 floating forwards. I think the change was quite considerable. Not saying it worked that well, but it was different |
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Post by iot on Aug 28, 2024 21:25:18 GMT
Disagree on Giggs, there was no discernible style for most of his tenure - so much so that I remember him being pressed on it after losing out in Hungary and Croatia. He was asked to explain how he was trying to get us to play. He didn’t really manage to establish a clear style until Moore was brought in We were far more possession oriented under Giggs, and that Ireland game where we spanked them we have 4 floating forwards. I think the change was quite considerable. Not saying it worked that well, but it was different I’ll match your Ireland performance and raise you the performances against Uruguay, Denmark, Hungary and Azerbaijan which seemed to be very muddled tactically and we didn’t seem to have any idea about how we wanted to hurt them |
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Post by hooky on Aug 28, 2024 23:44:32 GMT
Good luck Bellamy
No doubt he knows best but ...
Think Ramsey continuing as captain is a mistake. He is not a captain, he is fading and he is hardly ever fit, while there is a changing of the guard. Ampadu showed more leadership qualities than Ramsey aged 17! I was hoping Bellamy would be more ruthless. I would not even be starting Ramsey right now
Would have picked Da Silva personally
So, so depressing seeing players of the poor level of Sheehan, Cooper and Cullen in the squad - it just makes me sigh. A reflection as to how weak some of our back up is I guess. I'd rather go with Crew (who was dreadful against Gibralter) assuming he is as naturally talented as everyone in the know keeps saying he is. Copper is a non entity - what has he done in 2 years, Sheehan struggling against Gibralter sums him up, while Cullen may score the odd goals but is otherwise an ineffectual player. I know its harsh but while we have players like them as back up we are not going to get very far - same with Morrell, when he played he was an obvious weak link exploited by opposition teams.
Hope Craig turns out to be a massive upgrade on Page!
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Post by hooky on Aug 28, 2024 23:49:20 GMT
We were far more possession oriented under Giggs, and that Ireland game where we spanked them we have 4 floating forwards. I think the change was quite considerable. Not saying it worked that well, but it was different I’ll match your Ireland performance and raise you the performances against Uruguay, Denmark, Hungary and Azerbaijan which seemed to be very muddled tactically and we didn’t seem to have any idea about how we wanted to hurt them Have we forgotten about the perfect and dominant game we played at home against Hungary? How mad was it to see us totally control a key qualification game? We played confident, outstanding football. Who knows how we would have progressed from there but I definitely believe Giggs was a far better football manager than Page |
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Post by iot on Aug 29, 2024 7:07:52 GMT
I’ll match your Ireland performance and raise you the performances against Uruguay, Denmark, Hungary and Azerbaijan which seemed to be very muddled tactically and we didn’t seem to have any idea about how we wanted to hurt them Have we forgotten about the perfect and dominant game we played at home against Hungary? How mad was it to see us totally control a key qualification game? We played confident, outstanding football. Who knows how we would have progressed from there but I definitely believe Giggs was a far better football manager than Page We were talking about how long it takes to embed a new style of play, not about Giggs' overall quality as a manager and how we were playing under him 12-18 months into his tenure. That Hungary game was a great performance, as were the previous three games under him which followed several very poor performances full of muddled thinking. I would also add that whilst Giggs did move us to a slightly different style, what we ended up with wasn't that drastically different to the Coleman era and was not particularly innovative. He tried a fluid frontline initially which, with the exception of the Ireland performance, didn't work at all. He sort of abandoned that approach when he brought Moore in. Bellamy is going to attempt a much more radical change in style I think. The good thing is I think Bellamy has much greater clarity about what he wants to do than Giggs had which should make it easier to engrain in the players. Even still, it will be difficult for the players to master it after a few days of training as Bellamy said and I don't think he expects to produce great results and performances straight away |
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Post by allezlesrouges on Aug 29, 2024 8:08:12 GMT
We were far more possession oriented under Giggs, and that Ireland game where we spanked them we have 4 floating forwards. I think the change was quite considerable. Not saying it worked that well, but it was different I’ll match your Ireland performance and raise you the performances against Uruguay, Denmark, Hungary and Azerbaijan which seemed to be very muddled tactically and we didn’t seem to have any idea about how we wanted to hurt them It wasn't working well, but it was clear Giggs was trying something different to Coleman. The problem with it was we were trying to play tippy tappy football with no vocal point, Tom Lawrence up front a lot of the time. As soon as Kieffer came in it all made more sense but before then we were definitely trying to play progressive passing with rotating forwards making runs, very different from the counter attacking under Coleman in my opinion |
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Post by allezlesrouges on Aug 29, 2024 8:08:58 GMT
Good luck Bellamy No doubt he knows best but ... Think Ramsey continuing as captain is a mistake. He is not a captain, he is fading and he is hardly ever fit, while there is a changing of the guard. Ampadu showed more leadership qualities than Ramsey aged 17! I was hoping Bellamy would be more ruthless. I would not even be starting Ramsey right now Would have picked Da Silva personally So, so depressing seeing players of the poor level of Sheehan, Cooper and Cullen in the squad - it just makes me sigh. A reflection as to how weak some of our back up is I guess. I'd rather go with Crew (who was dreadful against Gibralter) assuming he is as naturally talented as everyone in the know keeps saying he is. Copper is a non entity - what has he done in 2 years, Sheehan struggling against Gibralter sums him up, while Cullen may score the odd goals but is otherwise an ineffectual player. I know its harsh but while we have players like them as back up we are not going to get very far - same with Morrell, when he played he was an obvious weak link exploited by opposition teams. Hope Craig turns out to be a massive upgrade on Page! Some players will improve under Bellamy. Sometimes a new coach with new ideas can get more out of players that seemed average under a previous manager |
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Post by jbt95 on Aug 29, 2024 12:16:39 GMT
Out of interest, was anybody at the IDLES gig in Bristol last Saturday?
If so, you will know what I mean and why I posted in this thread. Did make me laugh.
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