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Post by aberbeeg on Jun 19, 2023 22:06:32 GMT
Out of his depth at this level tbh
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Post by aberbeeg on Jun 19, 2023 22:08:21 GMT
The group looks shocking !!
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Post by conwy10 on Jun 19, 2023 22:15:38 GMT
When things aren't going well the level that a player plays at can become that much more apparent, never more so for Joe than the previous two games, maybe even his previous three given how costly his mistake against Latvia could have been. We can't afford errors if we want to qualify, for too long we've been full of them. He isnt the best, but who would we have instead? He's better in that position than Smith, Levitt, Ramsey. Our well is completely empty. Hopefully James can come through or Savage, but at the moment out of the ones who have had half a chance in a Wales shirt hes a better option than. |
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Post by ddirpytnop on Jun 19, 2023 22:25:40 GMT
I think Morrell's red card was probably deserved on the way that such challenges are ref'd in football - but in terms of endangering an opposing player, Ozcan's challenge on Ampadu whilst he was in the air was much worse. And it was deliberate whilst Joe's was accidental (but reckless admittedly). To put it into context, in rugby union, a game that is obviously much more physical than football, such a challenge would have resulted in a straight red because of the risk it brings of serious neck or head injury. You don't see reds given in football for that sort of challenge but I think you should.
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Post by allezlesrouges on Jun 19, 2023 23:38:46 GMT
I think Morrell's red card was probably deserved on the way that such challenges are ref'd in football - but in terms of endangering an opposing player, Ozcan's challenge on Ampadu whilst he was in the air was much worse. And it was deliberate whilst Joe's was accidental (but reckless admittedly). To put it into context, in rugby union, a game that is obviously much more physical than football, such a challenge would have resulted in a straight red because of the risk it brings of serious neck or head injury. You don't see reds given in football for that sort of challenge but I think you should. Roberts took an intentional hand in the face as well, we got lucky in a lot of ways tonight, but in terms of the red card incidents overall we were unlucky |
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Post by ontheroadagain2 on Jun 28, 2023 9:17:01 GMT
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Post by garynysmon on Jun 28, 2023 12:02:52 GMT
Out of his depth at this level tbh As he should though, tbh. I mean, he's in his prime and playing in League One. I've always been nervous about placing so much emphasis on a player most nations who reached the last World Cup wouldn't even consider selecting. I get our player pool is small, but that's his level. |
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Post by talyfan on Jun 28, 2023 12:55:40 GMT
I'd agree too. Unfortunately we're not spoilt for choice of pure central and holding midfielders and instead try haemorrhage Wilson and Ramsey who at times shown very little defensive discipline for us in recent games.
People question Morrells ability and well within the right too.
Just to consider though.
Armenia midfield two consisted of a highly promising midfielder for FC Krasnodar and the other plying their trade in the Armenia league.
Iran had a midfield trio playing in Denmark, UAE and Greece.
Player for player similar situation to us in a sense but a system that gets them playing beyond the sum of to their parts. Not ground breaking stuff
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Post by njdragon on Jun 28, 2023 15:16:20 GMT
this is exactly the reason we should bust a gut to get allen back - we have no one else playing at a decent club level. Doing a job like allen can, so there is no downside to him coming back. Levitt just been relegated, matt smith, morrell, vaulks we are seriously lacking in midfield right now.
Or i think we are just planning for the future and its a back to a minor rebuild. Allen would at least give us a chance of qualification and with that comes more experience for the side!
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Post by fiveattheback on Jun 28, 2023 15:23:34 GMT
We could give Jordan James a proper run out for once. Has he even played 10 minutes in total for us?
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Post by njdragon on Jun 28, 2023 15:37:00 GMT
We could give Jordan James a proper run out for once. Has he even played 10 minutes in total for us? we, may have to. Morrell has been found out and i can't see him starting many more games for us, FairPlay to him he is playing well above his level. I dont know much about james but looked here and they have his passing down as weak which is a must in the old allen role. No significant strengths www.whoscored.com/Players/427469/Show/Jordan-Jamescompared with allen - no significant weaknesses www.whoscored.com/Players/23444/Show/Joe-Allen |
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Post by fiveattheback on Jun 29, 2023 11:13:44 GMT
We could give Jordan James a proper run out for once. Has he even played 10 minutes in total for us? we, may have to. Morrell has been found out and i can't see him starting many more games for us, FairPlay to him he is playing well above his level. I dont know much about james but looked here and they have his passing down as weak which is a must in the old allen role. No significant strengths www.whoscored.com/Players/427469/Show/Jordan-Jamescompared with allen - no significant weaknesses www.whoscored.com/Players/23444/Show/Joe-AllenI'd take the idea that any professional footballer has no significant strengths with more than a pinch of salt, as well as the idea that any of them have no significant weaknesses. I don't think that tells us much. Allen isn't the player he was, we saw that toward the end of his Wales career. If he doesn't want to do it then that's that. We need to look to the future, not the past and bring in players like Taylor, James, Levitt etc. First things first we need to pick a squad with adequate midfield cover and stop picking a million general forwards, half of which we know are never going to get on the pitch |
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Post by njdragon on Jun 29, 2023 11:31:16 GMT
I'd take the idea that any professional footballer has no significant strengths with more than a pinch of salt, as well as the idea that any of them have no significant weaknesses. I don't think that tells us much. Allen isn't the player he was, we saw that toward the end of his Wales career. If he doesn't want to do it then that's that. We need to look to the future, not the past and bring in players like Taylor, James, Levitt etc. First things first we need to pick a squad with adequate midfield cover and stop picking a million general forwards, half of which we know are never going to get on the pitch yes it was just the first site i saw but there are some interesting comparisons - for instance our only players that have passing strengths are morrell and levitt. They just aren't playing at the level we need. We dont have a player in his mould who can pick up the ball from the defence and just pass it like allen. There is no one anywhere near that quality in the squad. end of his wales career he played the world cup after coming back from injury - probably too soon for him. I think he would have made a big difference if he was fit. If we are looking at the future then we have to accept that we are writing off the next few campaigns. I mean people mentioned playing Johnson instead of bale before the world cup. I'm not sure what people think of him now but the whole buzz in wales seems to have cooled, and the last 2 performances suggest we miss bale more than ever. Even an unfit one. |
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Post by fiveattheback on Jun 29, 2023 12:02:54 GMT
I'd take the idea that any professional footballer has no significant strengths with more than a pinch of salt, as well as the idea that any of them have no significant weaknesses. I don't think that tells us much. Allen isn't the player he was, we saw that toward the end of his Wales career. If he doesn't want to do it then that's that. We need to look to the future, not the past and bring in players like Taylor, James, Levitt etc. First things first we need to pick a squad with adequate midfield cover and stop picking a million general forwards, half of which we know are never going to get on the pitch yes it was just the first site i saw but there are some interesting comparisons - for instance our only players that have passing strengths are morrell and levitt. They just aren't playing at the level we need. We dont have a player in his mould who can pick up the ball from the defence and just pass it like allen. There is no one anywhere near that quality in the squad. end of his wales career he played the world cup after coming back from injury - probably too soon for him. I think he would have made a big difference if he was fit. If we are looking at the future then we have to accept that we are writing off the next few campaigns. I mean people mentioned playing Johnson instead of bale before the world cup. I'm not sure what people think of him now but the whole buzz in wales seems to have cooled, and the last 2 performances suggest we miss bale more than ever. Even an unfit one. Toward the end it was clear Allen wasn't the player he was, there's no shame in that and there's no point us pretending we'll get or were getting 2016 Joe Allen if he were to come back. He's getting older and has suffered injuries, it's natural. Ar the potential replacements as good as he was? No. Do we need them to be for us to be competitive and not get embarrassed by the likes of Armenia? Also no. It isn't a zero sum game between Allen and failure. On the point in bold, I completely disagree. This isn't the Toshack era and anyone suggesting it's a transition anything like that baffles me. We have a group of players who are certainly good enough to compete and we shouldn't be writing off this campaign, never mind the "next few". The bulk of our starters have successfully qualified for and played in 2 tournaments, most of our team out in Turkey beat them at the Euros in 2021. Of course Bale is a miss, but the last 2 performances aren't down to him, the last 2 performances show we miss proper structure and possibly a certain amount of belief |
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Post by iot on Jun 29, 2023 12:50:52 GMT
yes it was just the first site i saw but there are some interesting comparisons - for instance our only players that have passing strengths are morrell and levitt. They just aren't playing at the level we need. We dont have a player in his mould who can pick up the ball from the defence and just pass it like allen. There is no one anywhere near that quality in the squad. end of his wales career he played the world cup after coming back from injury - probably too soon for him. I think he would have made a big difference if he was fit. If we are looking at the future then we have to accept that we are writing off the next few campaigns. I mean people mentioned playing Johnson instead of bale before the world cup. I'm not sure what people think of him now but the whole buzz in wales seems to have cooled, and the last 2 performances suggest we miss bale more than ever. Even an unfit one. Toward the end it was clear Allen wasn't the player he was, there's no shame in that and there's no point us pretending we'll get or were getting 2016 Joe Allen if he were to come back. He's getting older and has suffered injuries, it's natural. Ar the potential replacements as good as he was? No. Do we need them to be for us to be competitive and not get embarrassed by the likes of Armenia? Also no. It isn't a zero sum game between Allen and failure. On the point in bold, I completely disagree. This isn't the Toshack era and anyone suggesting it's a transition anything like that baffles me. We have a group of players who are certainly good enough to compete and we shouldn't be writing off this campaign, never mind the "next few". The bulk of our starters have successfully qualified for and played in 2 tournaments, most of our team out in Turkey beat them at the Euros in 2021. Of course Bale is a miss, but the last 2 performances aren't down to him, the last 2 performances show we miss proper structure and possibly a certain amount of belief I don't really agree with your assessment on Allen. I don't think we can judge him on his WC performances. If we look back to his last performance before then, the Ukraine game, he was very good. He was also the best player on the pitch for Swansea in his last game of the season, before getting banned for ending up in a fight with the opposition manager! If he could be persuaded to return for the remaining qualifiers and playoffs, I think we should definitely attempt it. The truth is, all of our other options are either not ready or not good enough. I don't think we're far off a midfielder breaking through, so one more year from Allen would be massive. |
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Post by allezlesrouges on Jun 29, 2023 13:54:29 GMT
We could give Jordan James a proper run out for once. Has he even played 10 minutes in total for us? I know he's not a guaranteed starter for Birmingham, but if he can start games for them and hold his own in the Championship then I feel we need to be taking a risk on him at this point, such is the dearth fo options. Morrell banned and Ramsey not really suiting it means I think we have to see if he can sink or swim |
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Post by iot on Jun 29, 2023 14:03:12 GMT
We could give Jordan James a proper run out for once. Has he even played 10 minutes in total for us? I know he's not a guaranteed starter for Birmingham, but if he can start games for them and hold his own in the Championship then I feel we need to be taking a risk on him at this point, such is the dearth fo options. Morrell banned and Ramsey not really suiting it means I think we have to see if he can sink or swim I don't think any of us have seen him enough to know what he offers and whether he's good enough. It's all well and good looking at the 50+ championship appearances, but that misses a whole load of context and I don't think it's particularly convincing. He got his first few games the season before last when Birmingham were really struggling with injuries and they were fairly safe in the table if I recall correctly. He then started a couple of games at the beginning of last season, but the club obviously saw it as an aspect to improve because they went out to loan a couple of man united youngsters (I think) to play ahead of him. After those first few games, I don't think he started more that 4 or 5 games for the rest of the season, again mostly when they were already safe. He also got 20-30 sub appearances which has made it look good, but that was often at 80+mins. So I think he's far from established himself as a championship quality midfielder and I don't think any of us actually know how good he is. |
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Post by talyfan on Jun 29, 2023 16:50:42 GMT
We should have some decent options. People say what they like about Vaulks but the likes of Levitt, Lee Evans and Terry Taylor all should be playing at a decent level next season too. Joe Allen out of the question. Can't see him coming back and tarnish his legacy even more.
We're up against Latvia. Main priority is keeping good shape off the ball and protecting us on the counter/transitions. Nothing too demanding on the individual coming in hopefully and frees up the attacking lads and shares the defensive weight with Ampadu.
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Post by jimexotic on Jun 29, 2023 21:05:00 GMT
Call me a knee-jerking nutcase but anything less than a win against Latvia and I'm probably writing off the next three years minimum. Whoever plays that game, we have a deep enough pool of talent and enough players with decent enough pedigree to be able to beat the likes of Latvia and Armenia, if we can't do that something drastic has to happen.
On Joe Morrell, I don't want to see him in a Wales shirt for a while, some others deserve a chance to show if they cannot make the mistakes that he's made recently, the red against Turkey was Hennessey levels of dumb.
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Post by fiveattheback on Jun 30, 2023 14:15:37 GMT
Call me a knee-jerking nutcase but anything less than a win against Latvia and I'm probably writing off the next three years minimum. Whoever plays that game, we have a deep enough pool of talent and enough players with decent enough pedigree to be able to beat the likes of Latvia and Armenia, if we can't do that something drastic has to happen. On Joe Morrell, I don't want to see him in a Wales shirt for a while, some others deserve a chance to show if they cannot make the mistakes that he's made recently, the red against Turkey was Hennessey levels of dumb.It wasn't quite in that league, Hennessey's was ridiculous, Morrell's was more unfortunate than stupid |
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Post by ddirpytnop on Jun 30, 2023 15:41:29 GMT
Call me a knee-jerking nutcase but anything less than a win against Latvia and I'm probably writing off the next three years minimum. Whoever plays that game, we have a deep enough pool of talent and enough players with decent enough pedigree to be able to beat the likes of Latvia and Armenia, if we can't do that something drastic has to happen. On Joe Morrell, I don't want to see him in a Wales shirt for a while, some others deserve a chance to show if they cannot make the mistakes that he's made recently, the red against Turkey was Hennessey levels of dumb.It wasn't quite in that league, Hennessey's was ridiculous, Morrell's was more unfortunate than stupid No where near the same league in my view. Morrell's red card was the result of a combination of a bit of misfortune together with his own clumsiness. But there was nothing malicious or particularly dangerous about the tackle. Wayne's was stupidly and needlessly reckless. His red card was fully deserved. |
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Post by ontheroadagain2 on Jul 12, 2023 10:34:48 GMT
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Post by ontheroadagain2 on Jul 12, 2023 21:17:41 GMT
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Post by janglingjack on Jul 12, 2023 21:29:03 GMT
surely the question should be why are we still clinging to joe,nothing against him but i would rather move on with anyone,fuck sake i'll play,i can run around and block some passes,is there really nobody better,that is the major very troubling question.
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Post by allezlesrouges on Jul 14, 2023 12:00:04 GMT
surely the question should be why are we still clinging to joe,nothing against him but i would rather move on with anyone,fuck sake i'll play,i can run around and block some passes,is there really nobody better,that is the major very troubling question. You're a professional footballer? Who do you play for? |
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Post by ontheroadagain2 on Jul 14, 2023 15:33:43 GMT
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Post by ontheroadagain2 on Jul 14, 2023 19:10:17 GMT
Joe has scored in tonight's friendly.
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Post by jimexotic on Sept 2, 2023 15:49:03 GMT
Sent off
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Post by njdragon on Sept 2, 2023 16:01:56 GMT
Must be pages fault again 😂 |
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Post by ontheroadagain2 on Sept 2, 2023 17:32:24 GMT
It was two yellows today rather than a straight red.
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