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Post by foxmulder on Sept 11, 2013 20:39:59 GMT
Either way, someone is lying and this is unacceptable.
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Post by Tim P on Sept 11, 2013 21:02:58 GMT
I'm not 100% sold on Collins' choice of words, especially how he specifies the date of the Serbia match... it gives the impression of some kind of technicality in his defence. That said, if Coleman lied, he should explain himself immediately.
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Post by Tim P on Sept 11, 2013 21:04:49 GMT
As I said on the other thread: Collins' statement seems too carefully worded. But Coleman needs to respond to this ASAP and very clearly.
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Post by welshwizard79 on Sept 11, 2013 21:12:43 GMT
I don't like the way he says "play for them".
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Post by njdragon on Sept 11, 2013 21:20:52 GMT
They Can't both be telling the truth, given Colemans dodgy stories in the past it and the concise nature of Collins statement i'd say Coleman has f**ked this one up.
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Post by rushy on Sept 11, 2013 21:34:01 GMT
This is not doing Welsh football and especially Coleman any good .
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Post by yanto on Sept 12, 2013 6:55:42 GMT
I do think that Jimbos statement holds true - actually nice to see him affirm his welshness. More interestingly, Collins could have actually threatened cookie with legal action if it is untrue - hes stepped back from that so far.
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Post by alarch on Sept 12, 2013 8:19:07 GMT
The devil is in the detail here. Both are probably telling the truth. Did Coleman categorically state that Collins had been invited to play for Wales for the Serbia match, and that he declined? I don't think so. As usual the truth lies somewhere in the middle. Regardless of other issues I'm behind Coleman on this one. I don't think Collins would have been omitted without good reason, just as Bale would definitely have played out in Macedonia if there weren't other issues lurking in the background. We should judge Coleman on his decisions (such as playing players out of position where there is good reason to play them in their best role), not on spurious tittle tattle.
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Post by njdragon on Sept 12, 2013 9:02:40 GMT
The devil is in the detail here. Both are probably telling the truth. Did Coleman categorically state that Collins had been invited to play for Wales for the Serbia match, and that he declined? I don't think so. As usual the truth lies somewhere in the middle. Regardless of other issues I'm behind Coleman on this one. I don't think Collins would have been omitted without good reason, just as Bale would definitely have played out in Macedonia if there weren't other issues lurking in the background. We should judge Coleman on his decisions (such as playing players out of position where there is good reason to play them in their best role), not on spurious tittle tattle. The same Coleman who claimed he was late for a press conference because a washing machine flooded his flat but then to later admit he'd been out late 'somewhere he shouldn't have been. Collins statement 'I am proud to play for Wales and even prouder to pull on the red shirt of my country so the suggestion that I would ever refuse to play for them is plainly wrong' Bold statement to put out if he did refuse surely |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 12, 2013 9:10:11 GMT
The devil is in the detail here. Both are probably telling the truth. Did Coleman categorically state that Collins had been invited to play for Wales for the Serbia match, and that he declined? I don't think so. As usual the truth lies somewhere in the middle. Regardless of other issues I'm behind Coleman on this one. I don't think Collins would have been omitted without good reason, just as Bale would definitely have played out in Macedonia if there weren't other issues lurking in the background. We should judge Coleman on his decisions (such as playing players out of position where there is good reason to play them in their best role), not on spurious tittle tattle. The same Coleman who claimed he was late for a press conference because a washing machine flooded his flat but then to later admit he'd been out late 'somewhere he shouldn't have been. Collins statement 'I am proud to play for Wales and even prouder to pull on the red shirt of my country so the suggestion that I would ever refuse to play for them is plainly wrong' Bold statement to put out if he did refuse surely The guy loves playing "for them" so much that he gave the ROI game a miss despite playing for West Ham either side of the Wednesday- so the pair f them have form for lying and being shysters. Coleman may have fucked up here and will deserve the book thrown at him...but that will still not change the fact that Collins has been a shit servant to his country and is better off left out for all the commitment we get out of him. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 12, 2013 9:18:45 GMT
The issue here is that both Coleman and Collins can't be trusted and this is the outcome.
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Post by welshiron on Sept 12, 2013 9:42:45 GMT
Collins passed a late fitness test before the Cardiff game so on that occasion I accept he wasn't fit, he has failed to turn up on a few occasions but only he knows how genuine these are.
I believe he is our best centre half alongside Williams and the fact that Blake and Ricketts have been picked ahead of him is plainly wrong in my opinion.
Maybe he hasn't turned up in the passed as he knows he is going to be benched for inferior players something which is hard for anyone to take.
If Coleman has lied this must be the final straw and he must get sacked.
I would say we need Collins more than Coleman
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Post by llannerch on Sept 12, 2013 11:47:41 GMT
Maybe he hasn't turned up in the passed as he knows he is going to be benched for inferior players something which is hard for anyone to take. If he's been benched, or likely to be benched, it's because he's not played in previous games. That the player in possession of the shirt is first choice is a received wisdom of the game. He should have sucked it up and got on with it. It's what a "good honest pro", which Collins apologists will no doubt refer to him as before long, ought to do. |
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Post by welshiron on Sept 12, 2013 12:37:17 GMT
I agree to a degree Llanerch, but Blake was never going to be a top centre half, despite the odd good game and Ricketts had been poor at centre half when played there, ironically though I thought he did pretty well in Macedonia
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Post by flynnfan on Sept 12, 2013 12:39:54 GMT
The outcome of all this is that either Collins or Coleman is lying. If its Collins, he should never play for Wales again. If its Coleman, he has to resign.
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Post by toshfan on Sept 12, 2013 12:44:08 GMT
The outcome of all this is that either Collins or Coleman is lying. If its Collins, he should never play for Wales again. If its Coleman, he has to resign. Or is the outcome that it is one man's word against another? Not a good position to be in, I accept. Can either prove what their positions were? |
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Post by squatter1 on Sept 12, 2013 13:22:01 GMT
Ball very firmly in Coleman's court now. Like Trendy says, he needs to respond, and respond very clearly or else his credibility is shot right through.
As I saw somewhere on Twitter, perhaps Collins had Coleman's passport all along.
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Post by alarch on Sept 12, 2013 13:26:36 GMT
People are ignoring the semantics here. Has anyone lied? Do their statements contradict each other? The comments of both were carefully crafted. A career in politics beckons for both. Then again perhaps not...
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Post by Bass Drum Barry on Sept 12, 2013 13:42:32 GMT
I doubt anyone has lied outright. I think it's more likely that Coleman's words have been taken slightly out of context. Whatever the case, it's more embarrassment for Coleman unfortunately.
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Post by njdragon on Sept 12, 2013 14:11:27 GMT
I doubt anyone has lied outright. I think it's more likely that Coleman's words have been taken slightly out of context. Whatever the case, it's more embarrassment for Coleman unfortunately. Not sure how this can be taken out of context. Why aren't the press asking questions here? It needs to be answered |
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Post by welshiron on Sept 12, 2013 14:16:54 GMT
Question 1 Chris did you phone Collins up and ask him to play against Serbia
Question 2 James, did Chris phone you up and ask you to play against Serbia
Can't both answer yes
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Post by Tim P on Sept 12, 2013 15:12:53 GMT
Question 1 Chris did you phone Collins up and ask him to play against Serbia Question 2 James, did Chris phone you up and ask you to play against Serbia Can't both answer yes I agree totally. The folks on here that are on Twitter should all tweet the FAW / Bananaman / Delme to make sure this doesn't get 'forgotten about' before the contract is signed. |
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Post by Bass Drum Barry on Sept 12, 2013 15:16:43 GMT
I doubt anyone has lied outright. I think it's more likely that Coleman's words have been taken slightly out of context. Whatever the case, it's more embarrassment for Coleman unfortunately. Not sure how this can be taken out of context. Why aren't the press asking questions here? It needs to be answered It does need to be answered, you're right. Total shambles. My point was that Coleman isn't directly quoted in that BBC article (http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/24042840) as saying he spoke to Collins after the Macedonia game. I know it's ridiculous to be picking at the minor details of this. |
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Post by Tim P on Sept 12, 2013 15:24:10 GMT
Not sure how this can be taken out of context. Why aren't the press asking questions here? It needs to be answered It does need to be answered, you're right. Total shambles. My point was that Coleman isn't directly quoted in that BBC article (http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/24042840) as saying he spoke to Collins after the Macedonia game. I know it's ridiculous to be picking at the minor details of this. Ok, so in other words: Coleman spoke with Collins prior to Macedonia and may have told him to be ready for a call up in case of injury. Collins wasn't having it. Coleman wasn't happy either. Coleman then makes his statement and implies that Collins refused to turn up for Serbia, when in fact his rejection was of any kind of call up during this international window. It explains the very careful wording of Collins' statement: (paraphrasing here) - I never said I wouldn't turn up to play Serbia on the 10th of September. So, Coleman in the wrong in so much as he botched what he was trying to communicate (I don't think he's smart enough to be intentionally disingenuous). Collins an absolute twat. |
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Post by Bass Drum Barry on Sept 12, 2013 15:33:33 GMT
It does need to be answered, you're right. Total shambles. My point was that Coleman isn't directly quoted in that BBC article (http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/24042840) as saying he spoke to Collins after the Macedonia game. I know it's ridiculous to be picking at the minor details of this. Ok, so in other words: Coleman spoke with Collins prior to Macedonia and may have told him to be ready for a call up in case of injury. Collins wasn't having it. Coleman wasn't happy either. Coleman then makes his statement and implies that Collins refused to turn up for Serbia, when in fact his rejection was of any kind of call up during this international window. It explains the very careful wording of Collins' statement: (paraphrasing here) - I never said I wouldn't turn up to play Serbia on the 10th of September. So, Coleman in the wrong in so much as he botched what he was trying to communicate (I don't think he's smart enough to be intentionally disingenuous). Collins an absolute twat. As mental as it seems, I think this scenario is a genuine possibility. |
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Post by njdragon on Sept 12, 2013 15:51:52 GMT
This is quite important though -
"I did have a conversation with Chris to try to seek clarification on why I had been left out of the initial squad for both the Macedonia and the Serbia matches.
"But at no stage did I state that I would refuse to play for Wales
Let's try and push this with the welsh media?
@chriswathan
@jasonmbbc
@mpearlo
@pjcadden
@robphillipshere
@markpitman1
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Post by Deleted on Sept 12, 2013 15:54:49 GMT
It does need to be answered, you're right. Total shambles. My point was that Coleman isn't directly quoted in that BBC article (http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/24042840) as saying he spoke to Collins after the Macedonia game. I know it's ridiculous to be picking at the minor details of this. Ok, so in other words: Coleman spoke with Collins prior to Macedonia and may have told him to be ready for a call up in case of injury. Collins wasn't having it. Coleman wasn't happy either. Coleman then makes his statement and implies that Collins refused to turn up for Serbia, when in fact his rejection was of any kind of call up during this international window. It explains the very careful wording of Collins' statement: (paraphrasing here) - I never said I wouldn't turn up to play Serbia on the 10th of September. So, Coleman in the wrong in so much as he botched what he was trying to communicate (I don't think he's smart enough to be intentionally disingenuous). Collins an absolute twat. Yes - that's it. |
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Post by luke on Sept 12, 2013 16:37:54 GMT
TP has worked out what happened,
Either way, this is testing my patience. They need to resolve Collins' status. We joke about Collins but he is a Premiership centre back and West Ham's player of the month for the first month of the season (voted for by fans), which included one or two clean sheets IIRC. We can't seriously have a situation where Wales aren't using him, for at least another few seasons.
His errors have been an issue but before he got sent off against Belgium I remember him making some superb challenges. West Ham don't pick him for a laugh! He's solid for them (relatively speaking).
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Post by njdragon on Sept 12, 2013 16:49:45 GMT
Hmmm
Journalist mpearlo just tweeted back thats he's been told there be a response from the FAW!
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Post by njdragon on Sept 12, 2013 16:50:47 GMT
TP has worked out what happened, Either way, this is testing my patience. They need to resolve Collins' status. We joke about Collins but he is a Premiership centre back and West Ham's player of the month for the first month of the season (voted for by fans), which included one or two clean sheets IIRC. We can't seriously have a situation where Wales aren't using him, for at least another few seasons. His errors have been an issue but before he got sent off against Belgium I remember him making some superb challenges. West Ham don't pick him for a laugh! He's solid for them (relatively speaking). James Collins: West Ham centre-back Collins has played more passes (47) into the final third than any other player in the PL this season Also west Ham player of the month |
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