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Post by njdragon on Sept 12, 2013 17:00:41 GMT
Iwan Roberts Tweeted back to say he Questions should be asked and He cant imagine Collins would come out with a statement like that if he had told Coleman No
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Post by Deleted on Sept 12, 2013 17:06:38 GMT
Iwan Roberts Tweeted back to say he Questions should be asked and He cant imagine Collins would come out with a statement like that if he had told Coleman No Dutch Ray likes this. |
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Post by njdragon on Sept 12, 2013 17:10:22 GMT
@pjcadden
FAW not making any comment. Say it's between Chris Coleman and James Collins.
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Post by squatter1 on Sept 12, 2013 17:25:36 GMT
Don't believe the Trendy hype! He's just filling in the blanks with assumptions that suit his predisposition towards Collins. The Sept 10 date is a red herring - lawyer/pr speak.
Collins said in his statement:
1. I was not contacted after the Macedonia game.
2. I didn't say I wouldnt play, whether before or after the Macedonia game.
3. I would never refuse to play if asked.
He says these things very clearly, without equivication.
Coleman has accused him of all three of the above.
We now need to wait for Coleman's response, not take a few guesses and then all talk like we know exactly what happened.
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Post by njdragon on Sept 12, 2013 17:30:53 GMT
faw not making a statement apparently... Guilty as charged!
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Post by Deleted on Sept 12, 2013 17:35:13 GMT
What? There not supporting what Coleman said? JESUS.
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Post by njdragon on Sept 12, 2013 17:48:48 GMT
What? There not supporting what Coleman said? JESUS. Said its between Coleman and Collins, even though Coleman came out on national tv to state it to all welsh fans. Think the paying supporters deserve the truth and not lies. |
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Post by njdragon on Sept 12, 2013 17:51:52 GMT
@iwanwroberts: Good show tonight on @bbcradiowales 7-8 all about the Colman v Collins debacle!who's said what where and when?!
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Post by Deleted on Sept 12, 2013 18:49:54 GMT
This is quite important though - "I did have a conversation with Chris to try to seek clarification on why I had been left out of the initial squad for both the Macedonia and the Serbia matches. "But at no stage did I state that I would refuse to play for Wales Let's try and push this with the welsh media? @chriswathan @jasonmbbc @mpearlo @pjcadden @robphillipshere @markpitman1 With any luck it was a short conversation: "because you are a ****" would have been a pretty accurate reason. |
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Post by Tim P on Sept 12, 2013 19:07:14 GMT
Don't believe the Trendy hype! He's just filling in the blanks with assumptions that suit his predisposition towards Collins. The Sept 10 date is a red herring - lawyer/pr speak. Collins said in his statement: 1. I was not contacted after the Macedonia game. 2. I didn't say I wouldnt play, whether before or after the Macedonia game. 3. I would never refuse to play if asked. He says these things very clearly, without equivication. Coleman has accused him of all three of the above. We now need to wait for Coleman's response, not take a few guesses and then all talk like we know exactly what happened. Predisposition TOWARDS Collins? No, no, not I! Time will surely tell. Can't believe the FAW think it's between Coleman and Collins - if someone is not wanting to play for Wales then it's totally their business. To me, that sounds like they suspect Coleman fibbed / was very inarticulate to the point of mischief. |
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Post by squatter1 on Sept 12, 2013 23:11:58 GMT
Meant predisposition AGAINST naturally!
Listened to the BBC Wales show tonight. Pretty good actually.
Journalist said the fact Collins has done this, as a 40+ caps player and former captain, means he cares. He wants to play for Wales. But things are obviously fucked between him and Coleman. They said they invited Coleman and/or anyone from the FAW to comment, saying they could do it pre-recorded at any point during the day or live on the show, and they all refused. Chris Coleman has just been called a liar by James Collins and he won't take the stage to clear his name. He's making mistake after mistake. And there's only one obvious conclusion from the silence.
It also got me to thinking: there's a James Collins witch-hunt on this forum which I'd love to join - but what's the case against him? That's the thing I've never really seen - why should we despise him. Forget the bad performances, all our players have had them. Why else does he deserve such scorn on here?
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Post by Deleted on Sept 13, 2013 0:39:19 GMT
Meant predisposition AGAINST naturally! Listened to the BBC Wales show tonight. Pretty good actually. Journalist said the fact Collins has done this, as a 40+ caps player and former captain, means he cares. He wants to play for Wales. But things are obviously fucked between him and Coleman. They said they invited Coleman and/or anyone from the FAW to comment, saying they could do it pre-recorded at any point during the day or live on the show, and they all refused. Chris Coleman has just been called a liar by James Collins and he won't take the stage to clear his name. He's making mistake after mistake. And there's only one obvious conclusion from the silence. It also got me to thinking: there's a James Collins witch-hunt on this forum which I'd love to join - but what's the case against him? That's the thing I've never really seen - why should we despise him. Forget the bad performances, all our players have had them. Why else does he deserve such scorn on here? Because he has a very poor attendance record despite playing for his club in and around the international fixtures. I believe this culminated in the alleged 'injury' which ruled him out of the ROI game despite him playing for West Ham either side of the midweek game. As a result it appears that Coleman (quite rightly) got tired of this and as well as talking tough on a casual attitude to international football he made an example of Collins by not picking him, Any other place and time this would really be a total non-story, however it's proving a useful situation to try and leverage Coleman out of the job so all of a sudden the previously much maligned and disliked James Collins seems to have become some kind of champion of the people in the battle against the forces of Coleman. Can't see it lasting for long, as soon as Coleman is gone the man who is being talked up at the moment as a premiership quality centre back will go back to being what he always was, a clumsy oaf at international level who was allowed to take the piss out of Wales for far too long. |
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Post by welshiron on Sept 13, 2013 8:12:41 GMT
Meant predisposition AGAINST naturally! Listened to the BBC Wales show tonight. Pretty good actually. Journalist said the fact Collins has done this, as a 40+ caps player and former captain, means he cares. He wants to play for Wales. But things are obviously fucked between him and Coleman. They said they invited Coleman and/or anyone from the FAW to comment, saying they could do it pre-recorded at any point during the day or live on the show, and they all refused. Chris Coleman has just been called a liar by James Collins and he won't take the stage to clear his name. He's making mistake after mistake. And there's only one obvious conclusion from the silence. It also got me to thinking: there's a James Collins witch-hunt on this forum which I'd love to join - but what's the case against him? That's the thing I've never really seen - why should we despise him. Forget the bad performances, all our players have had them. Why else does he deserve such scorn on here? Because he has a very poor attendance record despite playing for his club in and around the international fixtures. I believe this culminated in the alleged 'injury' which ruled him out of the ROI game despite him playing for West Ham either side of the midweek game. As a result it appears that Coleman (quite rightly) got tired of this and as well as talking tough on a casual attitude to international football he made an example of Collins by not picking him, Any other place and time this would really be a total non-story, however it's proving a useful situation to try and leverage Coleman out of the job so all of a sudden the previously much maligned and disliked James Collins seems to have become some kind of champion of the people in the battle against the forces of Coleman. Can't see it lasting for long, as soon as Coleman is gone the man who is being talked up at the moment as a premiership quality centre back will go back to being what he always was, a clumsy oaf at international level who was allowed to take the piss out of Wales for far too long. Collins wasn't fit for the Ireland game, he passed a late fitness test to be able to play the following Saturday. Had West Ham had a game that Wednesday he wouldn't of played. Yes his record of showing up isn't great but as I said before it is human nature to be pissed off when inferior players are picked ahead of you, any niggle will then be used as an excuse not to show. Gabbidon retired under Toshack but seems to have been accepted back by everyone. |
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Post by squatter1 on Sept 13, 2013 8:24:18 GMT
Good point about Gabbs. The anti-Collins campaign is nothing but twisted gingerism.
And Storm if your Victorian discipline was applied we'd have already dropped Ramsey. And Rooney would now never play for england again. We must get our best players on the pitch, dropping them all for alleged feigned injuries isn't going to achieve that. Toshack applied the old school rules and it lost him half his senior pros.
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Post by njdragon on Sept 13, 2013 11:36:38 GMT
Coleman - Afterwards he said of Collins: “James explained to me that he didn’t want to come into the squad after being on standby because psychologically he was disappointed. But that’s not the attitude I’m looking for. Latest from the FAW - The Western Mail understands that a member of Coleman’s backroom team attempted to contact Collins at the weekend, but there was no answer so a message was left on his mobile phone. “We just need to find out what’s gone wrong, get an explanation... then we move on,” said Lloyd-Hughes. www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/welsh-football-chiefs-seek-answers-5922672haha whats a joke! |
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Post by welshiron on Sept 13, 2013 11:50:08 GMT
So Coleman didn't phone Collins, if that is the case he should resign, the Bale fiasco, his passport and now Collins all in a week
And not forgetting 2 very poor results
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Post by Deleted on Sept 13, 2013 12:02:19 GMT
The Welsh National football team is back in the gutter. The FAW and Coleman have taken us back there in less than 18 months like I knew they would. At this point in time I really couldn't give a shit about Macedonia or Belgium. This campaign is over and the future beyond that is nothing but bleak.
All this against a thriving club scene.
To the FAW - once you start losing lifelong diehard fans you have nowhere to go but oblivion.
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Post by alarch on Sept 13, 2013 12:09:28 GMT
When Coleman stated: "James explained to me that he didn’t want to come into the squad after being on standby" he didn't say when James Collins gave that "explanation", he's probably referring to before the Macedonia game. Coleman didn't say he refused to come, just that "he didn't want to come". There's plenty of semantic wriggle room there. Collins' statement was very carefully worded, making me wonder whether you got a lawyer to draft it. So it's quite possible that Collins could have got very irate, and yet not actually refused to come at any point.
One thing is pretty certain, James Collins will not play for Wales under Coleman. There's too much damage to bridge, and too little humilty on either part. Not that I'm a fan of Collins' (hardly), but Wales is the big loser here.
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Post by njdragon on Sept 13, 2013 12:20:08 GMT
Collins statement was probably worded with the clubs help - it was an official statement. It clearly says 'at no stage did I state that I would refuse to play for Wales' and 'the suggestion that I would ever refuse to play for them is plainly wrong'
where's the semantic wriggle room there???
I reckon Collins will play again, Coleman wont have the balls to leave him out after this and i think Collins is the type to turn up to make a point.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 13, 2013 12:24:37 GMT
When Coleman stated: "James explained to me that he didn’t want to come into the squad after being on standby" he didn't say when James Collins gave that "explanation", he's probably referring to before the Macedonia game. Coleman didn't say he refused to come, just that "he didn't want to come". There's plenty of semantic wriggle room there. Collins' statement was very carefully worded, making me wonder whether you got a lawyer to draft it. So it's quite possible that Collins could have got very irate, and yet not actually refused to come at any point. One thing is pretty certain, James Collins will not play for Wales under Coleman. There's too much damage to bridge, and too little humilty on either part. Not that I'm a fan of Collins' (hardly), but Wales is the big loser here. Only because its a problem position. In the grand scheme of things Collins has offered Wales very little. Questionable commitment, his club form has never translated to the international stage. You never know when he will turn up and when he does its like he leaves his brain in the dressing room. Why did Gary Speed prefer Blake over Collins? That surely tells us something. Belgium at home should have been his big comeback and then he fucks our campaign up almost before its started with his usual nonsensical bollocks. There is a lot wrong with Wales at international level at this point in time, but the thought of Collins never pulling on a Wales short again is one positive, in my book. I'll never get over that red card v Belgium, a totally ****ish move. |
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Post by squatter1 on Sept 13, 2013 12:36:53 GMT
"I'll never get over that red card v Belgium, a totally ****ish move."
So you'd be dumping a host of players had they been Welsh - Maradonna, Zidane, Suarez, Ibrahimavich etc - who have all got themselves far more stupid and avoidable red cards than Collins. Ramsey at Scotland for another.
Bad tackles and red cards happen in football, get over it.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 13, 2013 13:01:06 GMT
It was HOW Collins went against Belgium still irritates me, until his clumsy sending off he had been brilliant.
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Post by squatter1 on Sept 13, 2013 14:13:30 GMT
You know what, it really pissed me off too. Couldn't believe it. But because I want my football team to win matches in the future, it didn't make me think "I would rather we play a league 1 right back out of position at CB from now on".
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Post by Tim P on Sept 13, 2013 17:06:14 GMT
So you'd be dumping a host of players had they been Welsh - Maradonna, Zidane, Suarez, Ibrahimavich etc - who have all got themselves far more stupid and avoidable red cards than Collins. Ramsey at Scotland for another. Spot the odd one out. |
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Post by toshfan on Sept 13, 2013 20:00:56 GMT
It was HOW Collins went against Belgium still irritates me, until his clumsy sending off he had been brilliant. He was indeed having a good game. I had a cracking view of the incident in the Ninian Park stand of the challenge and said straight away that the referee would send him off. It was a red. Lots of moaning in the stand but at Half Time, a majority conceded that it was a correct decision from the referee. I remember him coming on against Germany at the Millenium when we lost 0-2 and he picked up a very silly yellow card. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 13, 2013 21:03:12 GMT
He's a liability, it must be very bad times indeed if we are not only clam outing for a liability, but one with questionable attitude at that.
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Post by welshiron on Sept 16, 2013 9:16:30 GMT
If anyone watched West Ham yesterday you saw everything there is about Collins in 90 minutes.
West Ham have conceded 1 goal in 4 games (a long range free kick)and he got player of the month I think
However yesterday, he tripped over the ball (probably would of cost Wales a goal, missed a great chance but got his head on almost everything with a few good blocks/tackles.
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Post by squatter1 on Sept 16, 2013 12:12:44 GMT
So what's going on vis-à-vis the Collins v Coleman spat?
If Coleman leaves it as it is and doesn't say anything, then only the following conclusions are valid:
James Collins never said he wouldn't play for Wales.
James Collins would always accept invitation to play for country when it is given.
Chris Coleman, national manager of Wales, lied on camera about a Welsh player in order to deflect attention after two defeats on the bounce.
What's it gonna be Cookie?
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Post by dai on Sept 16, 2013 13:44:43 GMT
Coleman needs to make a statement asap, the longer he leaves it the more it looks like he's trying to find a way out of the hole he's dug. Collins immediate reply following the accusations make him look a lot more legit to me. I just can't believe how this has been pretty much brushed under the carpet. If this story applied to the national rugby team, the media would go nuts.
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Post by alarch on Sept 16, 2013 15:19:31 GMT
I'm sorry, you're being a bit naive hear in putting so much faith in Collins' statement. It was so carefully worded I'd be amazed if it wasn't written with legal advice. All it states that he didn't refuse to play for Wales. But it's quite possible he gave every impression of not wanting to play for Wales in the double header without explicitly saying so. There are plenty of reasons to be unhappy with Coleman, and there's no doubt that his post-match comments were intended to deflect attention from the display, but fundamentally I'm with Coleman on this one. The bottom line is that Coleman would have wanted Collins in the squad at least, so the fact that he fails to turn up must be down to a spat between the two.
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