James Collins

[Tim P]

Collins played well and given the injuries we had, he was certainly our best option. However, he still looked extremely reckless and better players would have exposed his 'all heart' style of defending.

I'm happy for him to keep turning up and being selected, but we really need someone better to come along or develop into that position.

[Deleted]

Oct 12, 2013 11:45:25 GMT squatter1 said:

Oct 12, 2013 10:42:29 GMT @storm said:

I presume the express can look forward to being sued by Collins now if this is not the truth?

www.express.co.uk/sport/football/435648/Wales-manager-Chris-Coleman-heals-his-rift-with-James-Collins

Errrr..... This just confirms that Collins made the first move to come back, the opposite of what you've come on here spouting about?

Wasn't Coleman accused of being a liar for claiming that he called Collins up but Collins wasn't interested? That article categorically states that Collins turned down a call up before the Serbia game.

I find it hard to believe that Collins would come back on the agreement that Coleman gets to save face and call him a liar in explicit terms in the pre-match press conference. It suggests that Coleman was telling the truth and that Collins turned Wales down when asked by Coleman, Collins recognised he was in the wrong and made amends. In light of this damn right that Collins should make the first move. Collins gate was all about the Coleman witch hunt and who was the liar. Seems likely now that Coleman was telling the truth, yet this all seems to have been brushed under the carpet now Collins has been cast in an unfavourable light.

[squatter1]

"Collins gate was all about the Coleman witch hunt and who was the liar."

I'm not engaged in a witch hunt against Coleman. Never have been. Just interested in highlighting the ridiculousness of your views on Collins and your desire that he never plays for Wales again. Such a wish is basically wishing that our team is weaker. You are the witch hunter general here my friend.

"Seems likely now that Coleman was telling the truth, yet this all seems to have been brushed under the carpet now Collins has been cast in an unfavourable light."

Both parties have left conflicting versions of events hanging, and we likely wont know exactly what happened until the autobiographies come out. The Express are just quoting Coleman, doesn't establish any facts.

What stands is:

a) Coleman left Collins out against Macedonia/Serbia squad. We may have beaten Macedonia with Collins.
b) Collins has demonstrated both his desire to play for us, and his quality.
c) Coleman has done the right thing by reconcilling with Collins, and ultimately may have saved his job by doing so.
d) The double standards in judging Collins compared to all the other players who miss games is a joke.
e) The belief on here that Collins should be left out because he's had bad games is also a joke given how poor our other defensive options are.
f) The calls on here for Coleman to respond to Collins' statement were obviously correct. To criticise that is ludicrous.
g) Overall it's ended well, but Collins' exclusion has been to the detriment of the team.
h) Let us all welcome Collins back and be thankful. Qualification next time around would be practically over now without him.

[Deleted]

Oct 12, 2013 18:06:05 GMT squatter1 said:

"Collins gate was all about the Coleman witch hunt and who was the liar."

I'm not engaged in a witch hunt against Coleman. Never have been. Just interested in highlighting the ridiculousness of your views on Collins and your desire that he never plays for Wales again. Such a wish is basically wishing that our team is weaker. You are the witch hunter general here my friend.

"Seems likely now that Coleman was telling the truth, yet this all seems to have been brushed under the carpet now Collins has been cast in an unfavourable light."

Both parties have left conflicting versions of events hanging, and we likely wont know exactly what happened until the autobiographies come out. The Express are just quoting Coleman, doesn't establish any facts.

What stands is:

a) Coleman left Collins out against Macedonia/Serbia squad. We may have beaten Macedonia with Collins.
b) Collins has demonstrated both his desire to play for us, and his quality.
c) Coleman has done the right thing by reconcilling with Collins, and ultimately may have saved his job by doing so.
d) The double standards in judging Collins compared to all the other players who miss games is a joke.
e) The belief on here that Collins should be left out because he's had bad games is also a joke given how poor our other defensive options are.
f) The calls on here for Coleman to respond to Collins' statement were obviously correct. To criticise that is ludicrous.
g) Overall it's ended well, but Collins' exclusion has been to the detriment of the team.
h) Let us all welcome Collins back and be thankful. Qualification next time around would be practically over now without him.

I don't think Collins is singled out moreso than others, I have spoken previously of my annoyance at Ramsey pulling out despite playing either saturday of an international. Of all our current squad Collins is more prominent than others due to him having missed games before and then playing for his club literally the next game. Personally I don't think its acceptable that players play only when they feel like it, it puts them in a position where they are bigger than the Welsh international football team and I think that is a dangerous road to go down. What alternative is there to dropping them and depriving the team of top players? There has to be some solution because to pander to it is, imo, not an option. Even some no-mark who plays for Shrewsbury is at it now. Should he be recalled and treated like nothing has happened when the next game rolls round?

Anyway, I would tentatively say that in this particular scenario I think this may have had a positive effect. More likely is that had Collins played vs Macedonia and Serbia he would have stunk the place out like he often does. As it is he came back last night off his own back with a point to prove and gave a very good account of himself, with hardly any need to slide in on his ass. I couldn't imagine the James Collins who played last night pulling that suicidal lunge that he displayed v Belgium.

Maybe this will serve to 'concentrate the mind' and he will go on from here with renewed commitment and use of his head and we will see the James Collins that we hear about at club level. So maybe, in this instance, calling him out on his absences has actually lead to some long term benefit for Wales?

[Deleted]

Heard he put in brilliant shift tonight against Tottenham.

[squatter1]

Dec 18, 2013 23:49:42 GMT alternativewales said:

Heard he put in brilliant shift tonight against Tottenham.

I watched the game and he was immense, no question.

He's our best defender.

Collison looked decent too - he should replace Ledley in our starting lineup.

[alarch]

"He's our best defender." You're kidding right? Sure, at his best Collins is a very good player - but how often is he at his best? As Wales fans we know all too well the answer to that question - "not very often". If he can add consistency to his undoubted raw talent (some chance this late in his career), then he might well deserve the "best defender" tag. As it is, I'd have Williams and Davies ahead of him - simply because they rarely put a foot wrong.

[squatter1]

Dec 19, 2013 9:51:13 GMT alarch said:

"He's our best defender." You're kidding right? Sure, at his best Collins is a very good player - but how often is he at his best? As Wales fans we know all too well the answer to that question - "not very often". If he can add consistency to his undoubted raw talent (some chance this late in his career), then he might well deserve the "best defender" tag. As it is, I'd have Williams and Davies ahead of him - simply because they rarely put a foot wrong.

Based on Premier League form this season, Collins is currently our best defender.

[alarch]

Debatable. But even if it were true that he was the best individual on form, he definitely isn't the best defender in a Welsh context, given the way we are trying to play. This is the problem that England have as well as Wales - they may have players who are excellent individually, but who detract from the collective. Gerrard springs for Liverpool and England to mind. He undoubtedly has great strengths - his leadership, dead ball delivery, and goal getting. But does he function well in a Rodgers team for instance? Not as well as Lucas with Allen and Henderson in my opinion - but time will tell. Same with Collins, Gunter and Matthews for Wales. Decent players at club level - but do they fit in a possession style game? If Pulis was Wales manager Collins would be probably the best fit to the sort of football we would try and play. But thankfully, we're not faced with that particularly odious experiment.

[squatter1]

Dec 19, 2013 17:14:33 GMT alarch said:

Debatable. But even if it were true that he was the best individual on form, he definitely isn't the best defender in a Welsh context, given the way we are trying to play. This is the problem that England have as well as Wales - they may have players who are excellent individually, but who detract from the collective. Gerrard springs for Liverpool and England to mind. He undoubtedly has great strengths - his leadership, dead ball delivery, and goal getting. But does he function well in a Rodgers team for instance? Not as well as Lucas with Allen and Henderson in my opinion - but time will tell. Same with Collins, Gunter and Matthews for Wales. Decent players at club level - but do they fit in a possession style game? If Pulis was Wales manager Collins would be probably the best fit to the sort of football we would try and play. But thankfully, we're not faced with that particularly odious experiment.

I know what you are saying and if we had the luxury of a crop of premiership CBs then maybe you'd find one who's more comfortable than Collins on the ball.

But we don't. So not picking Collins would be madness, and actually he's not bad on the ball anyways. On a level with, say, Terry at least.

[alarch]

I don't disagree much with that assessment. The frustrating thing about Collins is that if he played anywhere near his best on a consistent basis he'd be playing for a Champions League contender. As it is, his form is very erratic, veering from the sublime to the ridiculous from one game to the next. Technically, he's got a lot of quality. In fact many of this qualities are very similar to Ashley Williams' - excellent in the air, great at blocks, comfortable on the ball - with good long balls (perhaps I should re-phrase that...). Collins' problems are entirely in his head. The last two campaigns have been virtually ruined from the off by Collins' recklessness - the penalty conceded against England at the Millennium after only 7 minutes, and the harsh but foolish red card against Belgium (why take risks when there's no immediate danger?). They're not the only examples.

If Collins can cut out the stupid mistakes late in this career he will be a real asset for Wales no question. Unfortunately, there's too much history there to suggest that's likely.

[rushlegend]

Ashley Williams - "excellent in the air"

That's debatable to say the least - times he has been all over the shop when defending high balls in the box, which Collins does better IMO

[squatter1]

Dec 20, 2013 21:06:11 GMT rushlegend said:

Ashley Williams - "excellent in the air"

That's debatable to say the least - times he has been all over the shop when defending high balls in the box, which Collins does better IMO

No question one area where Collins is definitely better than Williams is in the air.

[alarch]

True, but don't underestimate Williams' ability in that department too. Collins has an advantage in height - but Williams wins more than his fair share of aerial duels.

If both Williams and Collins consistently perform to their ability in the next campaign, and we get a fair amount of luck with player availability then I'm confident that we'll at least make the play-offs. There's just too much ability in our squad now for that not to be a likelihood.

[hookd]

Dec 21, 2013 11:55:32 GMT alarch said:

True, but don't underestimate Williams' ability in that department too. Collins has an advantage in height - but Williams wins more than his fair share of aerial duels.

If both Williams and Collins consistently perform to their ability in the next campaign, and we get a fair amount of luck with player availability then I'm confident that we'll at least make the play-offs. There's just too much ability in our squad now for that not to be a likelihood.

Yous say that but we never look comfortable in any game for a sustained period of time, no matter the quality of the opposition. Putting Collins ahead of Ricketts and Gunter, both of which are not the greatest defenders on the flanks never mind in the heart of the defence, is clearly a massive step in the right direction.

However, there is a systematic problem or a problem in midfield. For periods in games, we seem to get swarmed over and our defence seems to be left extremely vulnerable for a sustained period of time, even at home, something that is rarely seen at international level except against the very top teams. Why us this? I wish we could say we are too attack minded but as has been mentioned we move the ball sideways and backwards a lot, which has had dire consuences when average players have been caught in possession close to our penalty area.

[alarch]

Injuries go a long way to explaining things. With our best 10 players playing less than half of the time during the last campaign it's hardly surprising that we've been poor at times, particularly with Allen being out for much of the campaign. Add to that Coleman's insistence on playing defenders who are weak defensively (i.e. Gunter) and players who could add something to the defensive midfield duties out of position (i.e. Ledley) - and that gives you 90% of the explanation. Coleman's deficiencies as a manager probably account for the remaining 10%.

[welshiron]

Not sure how many of you have noticed that West Ham have now kept 13 clean sheets this season, the majority of which Collins has played.

Their recent upturn in form has also coincided with his return to the team, even getting a vital goal last night.

I know he makes some poor mistakes but the number of blocks, headers and tackles he makes is immense

Vital he stays fit for our next qualifiers

[Deleted]

Its even more vital that he stays interested. Nothing summed up his Wales career like the way he turned up and put in a hell of a shift against Belgium.....and then was nowhere to be seen against Finland.

I always worry with Collins that the best we will ever get out of him is 2 or 3 games a campaign when he fancies it. For long term stability and building a proper defensive partnership between Williams & A.N Other you have to question whether that contribution is worth it (not that we are drowning in replacements for Collins, admittedly).

[welshiron]

I personally think he got pissed off being dropped for inferior players like Blake and Ricketts, not saying that is right but understandable

[squatter1]

He has recently stated his commitment to Wales and desire to play, so we should take him at his word and plan for him and Ash to take us through the next campaign.

He is I believe our best Centre Back, and if he's not then he's second best by a country mile.

We desperately need him, and without him our chances of qualifying will be much less.

Collins along with Bale, Ramsey and Ash Williams are now our most important players I'd say. We can live without others (incl Allen at the mo), but we can't adequately replace any of these four.

[Deleted]

Feb 12, 2014 15:34:33 GMT squatter1 said:

He has recently stated his commitment to Wales and desire to play, so we should take him at his word and plan for him and Ash to take us through the next campaign.

He is I believe our best Centre Back, and if he's not then he's second best by a country mile.

We desperately need him, and without him our chances of qualifying will be much less.

Collins along with Bale, Ramsey and Ash Williams are now our most important players I'd say. We can live without others (incl Allen at the mo), but we can't adequately replace any of these four.

Agreed, I just don't think he has the heart. He was a rock against Belgium yet iirc was out of the Finland game through injury yet played either side for his club, which he has a history of.

Disappointing really. It wasn't any kind of loss before as his bullshit performances against England and Belgium at home were fresh in the memory, Belgium away reminded us that he is still very much an asset. He hasn't got the appetite, doubtful whether he ever did.

[yanto]

I reckon he will prove the doubters wrong in this next campaign - him and ash together to be the lynch pin of qualification!

[alarch]

"He is I believe our best Centre Back". Really? Very selective memory there. Every player drops a clanger from time to time, but Collins is in a league of his own in that respect, especially for Wales. At this very best he's excellent - but the variation in his form is such that it's hard to have confidence that he won't mess up at some point during the qualification campaign. The other problem for Collins is that he's very much a traditional British centre half. He does well playing for an Allardyce team, but does he fit in well with the more cultured approach of the Welsh national team. Obviously not.

Collins is a player we have to put with because of the lack of options, but it takes rose-tinted specs to see him as a lynch pin of the team.

Also disagree with the statement "Collins along with Bale, Ramsey and Ash Williams are now our most important players I'd say. We can live without others (incl Allen at the mo), but we can't adequately replace any of these four." If we are to achieve anything at all in the next campaign we need a team of consistent quality. It's no good having 4 star names (if Collins is that...). In that respect the regular availability of Allen, Joniesta, Davies and Taylor are absolutely essential if we are to succeed.

The number one lesson from the last campaign, is that we are without many of our better players (less than 50% availabililty over the campaign) we struggle big time. We can even cope without the likes of Bale (e.g. Scotland away second half), as long as we have enough quality in the rest of the team.

[squatter1]

"Also disagree with the statement "Collins along with Bale, Ramsey and Ash Williams are now our most important players I'd say. We can live without others (incl Allen at the mo), but we can't adequately replace any of these four." If we are to achieve anything at all in the next campaign we need a team of consistent quality. It's no good having 4 star names (if Collins is that...). In that respect the regular availability of Allen, Joniesta, Davies and Taylor are absolutely essential if we are to succeed."

I just think that's crazy talk.

If Allen is unavailable we have Ledley/Collison/King/Crofts/Vaughan who can all come in. Allen is not performing at a level vastly above these players at the moment.

If Taylor (that bench warmer at Swansea) or Davies is unavailable we have John/Dummett/Matthews/Isgrove who can all come in. Even Ledley played left back for Palace last week.

However...

If Bale isn't available, we have absolutely nothing in the same class/position to come in. Robson Kanu? Has he even started a single game in the championship this season? How many goals did Bale score in the last campaign? Who was the next-nearest highest scorer?

Ditto Ramsey.

Ditto Collins. (care to name who you think should be playing CB instead of him btw?)

Ditto Ash Williams.

[alarch]

You're mis-representing my point. Of course Bale, Ramsey, Collins and Williams are very important players, but my point is that their availbility is a necessary but not sufficient condition for our success. We need a critical mass of quality, and in this respect the availability of a significant proportion of the likes of Allen, Joniesta, Davies and Taylor, AS WELL AS the likes of Bale, Ramsey, Williams and Collins, is crucial for our prospects.

Allen is a far better player than any of Ledley/Collison/King/Crofts/Vaughan and he will prove it in due course, for club and country. The likes of John, Dummett and Isgrove are at best exiting prospects, Davies and Taylor have both produced the goods consistently at Premier League level. There's a big difference between pedigree and promise. The exception being Joniesta... But then again, he has already produced the goods for Wales, albeit in just two out of two games.

[squatter1]

"You're mis-representing my point. Of course Bale, Ramsey, Collins and Williams are very important players, but my point is that their availbility is a necessary but not sufficient condition for our success."

Okay sure.

How about this for a (slightly pointless) question: If you could guarantee that Bale, Ramsey, Collins and Ash Williams would be available for every qualifier, but in return Davies, Taylor, Joniesta and Allen would be injured for every match, would you take it?

[alarch]

Our chances of achieving good results would be very slim with just four of our best players. On the other hand, if all of the above were present, apart from Bale, I would rate our chances of getting a result as quite high.

If there is any one player we could ill afford to be without, its Ramsey. Every time he plays we get a result of some sort - he is our talisman, and that's not just down to luck.

[welshiron]

I agree with squatter

Our 4 key players are

Bale and Ramsey - as they are our only top class players

Williams and Collins - as the drop in quality after them is massive.

We have cover in the full back positions Gunter, Davies, Taylo, Matthews, Dummett, John

The other 3 midfield positions could be filled by a combination of Allen, Ledley, J Williams, King, Huws, Robson-Kanu, Collison, Vaughan and even Crofts

At the moment Vokes is probably our 5th most important as I personally don't think Church is good enough

[llannerch]

Collins is a shoe-in in our first choice XI

[ivesmos]

Feb 14, 2014 11:03:01 GMT welshiron said:

I agree with squatter

Our 4 key players are

Bale and Ramsey - as they are our only top class players

Williams and Collins - as the drop in quality after them is massive.

We have cover in the full back positions Gunter, Davies, Taylo, Matthews, Dummett, John

The other 3 midfield positions could be filled by a combination of Allen, Ledley, J Williams, King, Huws, Robson-Kanu, Collison, Vaughan and even Crofts

At the moment Vokes is probably our 5th most important as I personally don't think Church is good enough