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Post by cantonwelsh79 on Jul 21, 2016 15:57:51 GMT
Not really his fault though, there's no Welsh cricket team ..but that's probably for another thread. As a former international disabled cricketer, that would make me an Uncle Tom myself, it really is not our fault. But as Picton says, issue for another thread. Sorry - it was a toungue in cheek coment, wouldn't have said it if we were talking about Crofty, Huw Morris or Steve Watkin- I just like Simon Jones! |
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Post by cantonwelsh79 on Jul 21, 2016 15:58:57 GMT
As a former international disabled cricketer, that would make me an Uncle Tom myself, it really is not our fault. But as Picton says, issue for another thread. Sorry - it was a toungue in cheek coment, wouldn't have said it if we were talking about Crofty, Huw Morris or Steve Watkin- I just like Simon Jones! * don't like that should've said! |
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Post by welwyn on Jul 21, 2016 16:05:15 GMT
Sorry - it was a toungue in cheek coment, wouldn't have said it if we were talking about Crofty, Huw Morris or Steve Watkin- I just like Simon Jones! * don't like that should've said! What is it you don't like about Jones? |
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Post by cantonwelsh79 on Jul 21, 2016 16:10:56 GMT
* don't like that should've said! What is it you don't like about Jones? I always got the impression he thought he was too good for Glamorgan- he also threw his teddy out of the pram when he was in the England squad got sent back and Glamorgan stuck with their form bowlers from the few previous weeks (Wharf & Harrison). He left for Worcester not too long after that. He was a good bowler mind, especially in the 2005 ashes. |
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Post by welwyn on Jul 21, 2016 16:23:29 GMT
What is it you don't like about Jones? I always got the impression he thought he was too good for Glamorgan- he also threw his teddy out of the pram when he was in the England squad got sent back and Glamorgan stuck with their form bowlers from the few previous weeks (Wharf & Harrison). He left for Worcester not too long after that. He was a good bowler mind, especially in the 2005 ashes. To be fair, he left to try and get games, which he needed to try and get fit again. He did return though and the One-Day Final 2013 he produced his best bowling performance since the injuries in 2005. He literally left every last ounce he had in his career out there in that game. |
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Post by cantonwelsh79 on Jul 21, 2016 16:32:19 GMT
I always got the impression he thought he was too good for Glamorgan- he also threw his teddy out of the pram when he was in the England squad got sent back and Glamorgan stuck with their form bowlers from the few previous weeks (Wharf & Harrison). He left for Worcester not too long after that. He was a good bowler mind, especially in the 2005 ashes. To be fair, he left to try and get games, which he needed to try and get fit again. He did return though and the One-Day Final 2013 he produced his best bowling performance since the injuries in 2005. He literally left every last ounce he had in his career out there in that game. I seem to remember though, he only came back to us because we were in such a mess at the time we were the only ones who would take a chance on him. Yes he was good in that final but you could count on one hand the other performances he put in in that spell at the club. I s'pose I may be being a bit harsh......but I hold a grudge - the twat!!! |
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Post by larslagerback on Jul 21, 2016 21:55:53 GMT
All well and good but I don't see him as an Uncle Tom.
He was playing for the England and Wales Cricket Board.
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Post by bale-droed on Jul 21, 2016 22:43:48 GMT
I was talking about this to an aussie in Canada yesterday oddly enough. Everytime you have to explain why Wales doesn't have a cricket team you realize how utter bullshit it is
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Post by cantonwelsh79 on Jul 22, 2016 10:05:14 GMT
All well and good but I don't see him as an Uncle Tom. He was playing for the England and Wales Cricket Board. No I don't reckon he is. I've heard Croft say that the players see playing for Glamorgan is like playing for Wales and see England as the British Lions. The problem with us having a team would be we would almost certainly lose Glamorgan. |
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Post by georgetm1 on Jul 22, 2016 11:58:18 GMT
All well and good but I don't see him as an Uncle Tom. He was playing for the England and Wales Cricket Board. No I don't reckon he is. I've heard Croft say that the players see playing for Glamorgan is like playing for Wales and see England as the British Lions. The problem with us having a team would be we would almost certainly lose Glamorgan. Why would we lose Glamorgan if we had a national team? Correct me if I am wrong, but didn't the Welsh government wipe out £4.2 million of their debt, and those a-holes still have the nerve to deny the rest of Wales a national team? Basically, each Welsh person has paid about £1.50 each to them not to have a national team. A bit of gratitude would be nice. |
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Post by holmesdaleultra on Jul 22, 2016 13:42:05 GMT
Simon Jones some ex cricketer toff who was talking on talk sport. How is he an Uncle Tom though? He was a guest on talk sport from Cardiff with Adrian durham and he said rugby was the biggest sport in Wales, rubbished talk of Wales being an independent cricket nation and also does not sound Welsh a bit dim but posh I think. |
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Post by cantonwelsh79 on Jul 22, 2016 14:14:21 GMT
No I don't reckon he is. I've heard Croft say that the players see playing for Glamorgan is like playing for Wales and see England as the British Lions. The problem with us having a team would be we would almost certainly lose Glamorgan. Why would we lose Glamorgan if we had a national team? Correct me if I am wrong, but didn't the Welsh government wipe out £4.2 million of their debt, and those a-holes still have the nerve to deny the rest of Wales a national team? Basically, each Welsh person has paid about £1.50 each to them not to have a national team. A bit of gratitude would be nice. I can't see the English keeping the county in their league system if they're not a feeder for England. They're looking for an excuse to cut the number of counties as it is. And if Glamorgan aren't in the championship I can't see how they survive. I'd love a national side. We'd really struggle mind, but so be it. We'd also have the problem that Ireland have had -whenever they get a decent player the traiterous bastards fuck off to play for England! Now THAT would make them uncle Toms!! |
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Post by caeboy on Jul 22, 2016 15:30:47 GMT
All well and good but I don't see him as an Uncle Tom. He was playing for the England and Wales Cricket Board. This old line always makes me laugh. List of why "Welsh people" say it's the England and Wales team: The board is called the England and Wales Cricket Board. List of why it's clearly the England team; - The board's abbreviation is the ECB (not the E&WCB) - The flag is England's St.George, (not the Union Jack.) - The emblem is England's 3 lions - You're far more likely to find a Saffa or even an Irish man in the England team than a (UT) 'Welshman' - Their anthem is ENGLAND'S Green and pleasant land. - THE TEAM IS CALLED ''ENGLAND'!!! I could go on. Its pathetic that at a time when so many people are pointing out the benefits of a Wales national football team competing in international competition, that Welsh people can't see the benefits (economic and otherwise) of having a national cricket team. |
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Post by cantonwelsh79 on Jul 22, 2016 16:00:54 GMT
Spot on Cae boy. I wasn't going to go into it but you've pretty much summed it up.
Where as i'd never support England- it must be difficult for test quality Welsh players though - it's the only option they have open to them (although personally I would be looking for New Zealand or Bangladeshi grand parents!!)
It would be an immense task to set up a Welsh team- and as I said I would worry it would cost us Glamorgan. But There's no reason we couldn't get to at least the level Scotland have in one dayers. Couldnt ever see us getting test status mind.
Anyway I've spouted enough about cricket now on a football forum, sorry!!
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Post by Deleted on Jul 22, 2016 16:08:34 GMT
All well and good but I don't see him as an Uncle Tom. He was playing for the England and Wales Cricket Board. This old line always makes me laugh. List of why "Welsh people" say it's the England and Wales team: The board is called the England and Wales Cricket Board. List of why it's clearly the England team; - The board's abbreviation is the ECB (not the E&WCB) - The flag is England's St.George, (not the Union Jack.) - The emblem is England's 3 lions - You're far more likely to find a Saffa or even an Irish man in the England team than a (UT) 'Welshman' - Their anthem is ENGLAND'S Green and pleasant land. - THE TEAM IS CALLED ''ENGLAND'!!! I could go on. Its pathetic that at a time when so many people are pointing out the benefits of a Wales national football team competing in international competition, that Welsh people can't see the benefits (economic and otherwise) of having a national cricket team. Spot on. If it looks like a duck, swims like a duck, and quacks like a duck, then it probably is a duck. And we could have a test team - NZ do - similar size. Its an anachronism in the 21st century. |
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Post by larslagerback on Jul 23, 2016 10:45:58 GMT
Yes but how does that make him an uncle tom? Did he turn his back on the Wales team?
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Post by maelor on Jul 23, 2016 11:40:52 GMT
This old line always makes me laugh. List of why "Welsh people" say it's the England and Wales team: The board is called the England and Wales Cricket Board. List of why it's clearly the England team; - The board's abbreviation is the ECB (not the E&WCB) - The flag is England's St.George, (not the Union Jack.) - The emblem is England's 3 lions - You're far more likely to find a Saffa or even an Irish man in the England team than a (UT) 'Welshman' - Their anthem is ENGLAND'S Green and pleasant land. - THE TEAM IS CALLED ''ENGLAND'!!! I could go on. Its pathetic that at a time when so many people are pointing out the benefits of a Wales national football team competing in international competition, that Welsh people can't see the benefits (economic and otherwise) of having a national cricket team. Spot on. If it looks like a duck, swims like a duck, and quacks like a duck, then it probably is a duck. And we could have a test team - NZ do - similar size. Its an anachronism in the 21st century. Agree entirely with both the above comments. Over the years I have come to dislike the England cricket team more than the England football and rugby teams. At least the football and rugby teams are what they say on the tin. The England cricket team is an insult to Welsh nationhood. Anyone who defends Welsh players having to play for a team called England is, in my view, by definition an Uncle Tom. No self respecting nation would put up with such a situation. |
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Post by cacenwy on Jul 23, 2016 15:26:08 GMT
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Post by quetzal on Jul 23, 2016 22:56:05 GMT
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Post by bale-droed on Jul 23, 2016 23:44:50 GMT
Yes but how does that make him an uncle tom? Did he turn his back on the Wales team? Could've had a backbone and shown some pride and said "I'm not playing for England because i'm Welsh and I want Wales to have it's own team" but instead money is lovely |
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Post by welwyn on Jul 24, 2016 0:06:33 GMT
Yes but how does that make him an uncle tom? Did he turn his back on the Wales team? Could've had a backbone and shown some pride and said "I'm not playing for England because i'm Welsh and I want Wales to have it's own team" but instead money is lovely And what if the option was between International (disabled) cricket and no international cricket? Would you still say no? |
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Post by bale-droed on Jul 24, 2016 5:50:11 GMT
Could've had a backbone and shown some pride and said "I'm not playing for England because i'm Welsh and I want Wales to have it's own team" but instead money is lovely And what if the option was between International (disabled) cricket and no international cricket? Would you still say no? I respect your achievment and you but we're all different and have different views and IMO i'd still say no in fact it's an easier no because life chnging money is not involved. I imagine playing for a Wales cricket team would mean the world to you over an England one and that's only going to happen if Welsh people who are of quality refuse to play for England whether it's disabled cricket or not. But just an opinion |
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Post by bracklablue72 on Jul 24, 2016 7:26:17 GMT
And what if the option was between International (disabled) cricket and no international cricket? Would you still say no? I respect your achievment and you but we're all different and have different views and IMO i'd still say no in fact it's an easier no because life chnging money is not involved. I imagine playing for a Wales cricket team would mean the world to you over an England one and that's only going to happen if Welsh people who are of quality refuse to play for England whether it's disabled cricket or not. But just an opinion I've got to agree with this, until high profile talented Welshman who are called up to play for England refuse and grab newspaper headlines by doing so, this situation will never improve and Wales will never get a long overdue representative side. |
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Post by caeboy on Jul 24, 2016 14:21:31 GMT
I respect your achievment and you but we're all different and have different views and IMO i'd still say no in fact it's an easier no because life chnging money is not involved. I imagine playing for a Wales cricket team would mean the world to you over an England one and that's only going to happen if Welsh people who are of quality refuse to play for England whether it's disabled cricket or not. But just an opinion I've got to agree with this, until high profile talented Welshman who are called up to play for England refuse and grab newspaper headlines by doing so, this situation will never improve and Wales will never get a long overdue representative side. While I don't see this currently being a realistic happening for professional sports people with ambitions to reach the highest level of their sport and families to finance, there is nothing stopping the likes of Simon Jones and other retired players now coming out and saying they would rather have been representing a Wales national team, and that young Welsh cricketers should be given the chance to do so in the near future in ODIs at least. Sadly they don't, instead such players, and the likes of Tony Lewis have offered nothing but self interest and the same poor excuses. I'd also be really interested to hear Prof.Laura MacAllister's view on what would have the biggest impact on the country Wales winning the rugby World Cup, Wales at a major football championship, or Wales at the cricket World Cup? With the counties like India having majorly developing economies and being obsessed with the sport, strangling things have influenced decisions like whether to close particular steelwork plants. |
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Post by larslagerback on Jul 24, 2016 18:01:58 GMT
Yes but how does that make him an uncle tom? Did he turn his back on the Wales team? Could've had a backbone and shown some pride and said "I'm not playing for England because i'm Welsh and I want Wales to have it's own team" but instead money is lovely That's easy to say if you're not a world class swing bowler. |
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Post by caeboy on Jul 24, 2016 18:27:44 GMT
Could've had a backbone and shown some pride and said "I'm not playing for England because i'm Welsh and I want Wales to have it's own team" but instead money is lovely That's easy to say if you're not a world class swing bowler. I'm guessing that neither are you. Doesn't stop you peddling that 'it's the England and Wales cricket team' crap though. |
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Post by bale-droed on Jul 24, 2016 18:43:39 GMT
Could've had a backbone and shown some pride and said "I'm not playing for England because i'm Welsh and I want Wales to have it's own team" but instead money is lovely That's easy to say if you're not a world class swing bowler. Yes it is and it would be een easier to say if I was a world class swing bowler knowing that inegrity means more and that if I made the statement of refusing to play for England it would have such a huge impact for my nation. But whatever I get in your more about money. |
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Post by larslagerback on Jul 24, 2016 22:23:37 GMT
That's easy to say if you're not a world class swing bowler. I'm guessing that neither are you. Doesn't stop you peddling that 'it's the England and Wales cricket team' crap though. Of course I'm not. Until we are it's impossible to say exactly what we'd do in another man's shoes. Which was my point. What was the point you were attempting to make? |
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Post by larslagerback on Jul 24, 2016 22:30:47 GMT
That's easy to say if you're not a world class swing bowler. Yes it is and it would be een easier to say if I was a world class swing bowler knowing that inegrity means more and that if I made the statement of refusing to play for England it would have such a huge impact for my nation. But whatever I get in your more about money. How do you know Jones made the decision based on money? How do you know I would base my decision on money? I might base my decision on what's best for me as a cricketer. Maybe Jones did the same. Perhaps he thought that publically turning down the cap would be an ultimately futile gesture. Who knows? Anyway, before I depart this debate (as playing the man, not the ball is not my style) I'll ask you 2 questions. Isn't Jones the same as Ramsey who donned the Team GB shirt? How did you feel when Ramsey scored against Russia, did you cheer? |
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Post by bale-droed on Jul 25, 2016 5:24:24 GMT
Yes it is and it would be een easier to say if I was a world class swing bowler knowing that inegrity means more and that if I made the statement of refusing to play for England it would have such a huge impact for my nation. But whatever I get in your more about money. How do you know Jones made the decision based on money? How do you know I would base my decision on money? I might base my decision on what's best for me as a cricketer. Maybe Jones did the same. Perhaps he thought that publically turning down the cap would be an ultimately futile gesture. Who knows? Anyway, before I depart this debate (as playing the man, not the ball is not my style) I'll ask you 2 questions. Isn't Jones the same as Ramsey who donned the Team GB shirt? How did you feel when Ramsey scored against Russia, did you cheer? No Ramsey donned a GB shirt not and England one and yes I cheered. I don't know what your trying to prove with those questions. I despise the lions and I hated team GB and the olympics and celebrated when South Korea scored. I am Welsh not English or British and as far as i'm concerned every Welsh athlete should only wear a Welsh jersey. What's best for you as a cricketer and what's best for Jones is selfish because you/he could of been the one with all that talent to change the whole nation's view to the sport you love. Kids could of worn Welsh jersey's and dreamt of playing cricket for Wales instead of wondering why they don't have a team like in the rugby and football |
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