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Post by northerndragon on Mar 30, 2013 21:29:17 GMT
Just checked twitter and an Arsenal forum and Ramsey is getting a lot of plaudits for his performance today. When he scored that penalty against Scotland, the first thing I thought was how he needed a powerful strike like that to inject some confidence into him. I read a comment on twitter saying today he was barking instructions at the rest of the Arsenal midfield which is good to hear. Also after the sending off, i'm hoping that demonstrated he's found a bit more venum which is what central midfielder in todays game needs and something he was painfully lacking before.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 31, 2013 18:12:13 GMT
Certainly was fantastic against Reading.
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Post by stu on Mar 31, 2013 19:14:35 GMT
That bit at 3:30. Awesome.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 31, 2013 19:31:39 GMT
That video summed up his contribution against Scotland- very tidy, but nothing there that you would not expect of any other midfielder really. Short passes to players in space, not much creativity on display. Could have really dispensed with most of it and just shown the interplay at 3:30 which was the highlight.
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Post by alarch on Mar 31, 2013 21:04:07 GMT
I don't want to sound too disrespectful storm, because you make a lot of thoughtful contributions to this board, but wtf? I'm sorry, but that's the sort of comment you would expect from ignorant Liverpool fans regarding Allen. What Ramsey and Allen do so well is deliver the perfectly weighted and directed short pass, with a very high completion rate. Although both have offensive capabilities, they are in their respective sides to win the ball, and be the fulcrum of the side. Ramsey clearly did that to a very high standard against Scotland and Reading. He also delivered a fair number of killer balls in the Reading game - which the other Arsenal players failed to capitalize on.
To be fair, it's easy to underestimate the contribution of the likes of Ramsey and Allen. I did so with Speed, who consistently had one of the highest pass completion rates in the Premier League. They have an understated role, but a crucial one. They are the metronome - the game controllers if you like.
One other thing, Ramsey has this remarkable ability, which is very rare, of stilling the opposition. What I mean by this, is when the ball comes near him his confidence and close control is such that the opposition are reluctant to dive in, for fear of him spinning away. The upshot is to slow the opposition down, sometimes to a standstill - you can see it in the Ramsey clips from both recent games. This is what Barcelona do so well as a team - but Ramsey has the same quality. It's a rare quality, and not obvious - but it goes a long way to explaining why Wenger has perservered with him, when ignorant others "don't get him".
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Post by alarch on Mar 31, 2013 21:06:56 GMT
One of the reasons I'm so exited about Joniesta is that his drive perfectly complements the qualities of Allen and Ramsey. That trio together will be a trio of the highest quality. That's the main reason for confidence going forward - because for the first time in our history we have the possibility of possessing an engine room that will compare favourably with the best in the world.
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Post by alarch on Mar 31, 2013 21:07:18 GMT
And I completely forgot about Bale...
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Post by alarch on Mar 31, 2013 21:07:34 GMT
Silly me...
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Post by Deleted on Mar 31, 2013 21:59:36 GMT
If its a skill to play those sorts of passes then I must, I admit, be a bit of a philistine because to me what Ramsey is doing there is bread and butter stuff for a top level Premier League player. Imo I think it cuts the other way too and we laud players simply for doing the basics, a sort of emperors new clothes so to speak. Perhaps we have all been exposed to too much Stoke- in which case I can understand that a British player who can play a simple pass perhaps stands out. But a lot of those passes in that video are to players 5 yards away in space when Ramsey himself is under no pressure- we would be cursing far more loudly than praising if he screwed them up. And as we have seen when Ramsey (and also Allen) are put under pressure and don't have any time on the ball their passing accuracy (and effectiveness) are greatly diminished. Thats when metronomic passing comes into its own- not against a poor outfit like Reading who give you all the time and space in the world.
Once again, I am not saying that Ramsey or Allen are not talented players- but for me, they are ultimately in the side because they have the potential to play a defence splitting pass at the crucial moment. The other aspects of their game, namely retaining possession, is the baseline of what they should bring to the team and they won't win any extra plaudits from me personally for doing that when they keep the game simple.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 1, 2013 10:10:49 GMT
I don't want to sound too disrespectful storm, because you make a lot of thoughtful contributions to this board, but wtf? I'm sorry, but that's the sort of comment you would expect from ignorant Liverpool fans regarding Allen. What Ramsey and Allen do so well is deliver the perfectly weighted and directed short pass, with a very high completion rate. Although both have offensive capabilities, they are in their respective sides to win the ball, and be the fulcrum of the side. Ramsey clearly did that to a very high standard against Scotland and Reading. He also delivered a fair number of killer balls in the Reading game - which the other Arsenal players failed to capitalize on. To be fair, it's easy to underestimate the contribution of the likes of Ramsey and Allen. I did so with Speed, who consistently had one of the highest pass completion rates in the Premier League. They have an understated role, but a crucial one. They are the metronome - the game controllers if you like. One other thing, Ramsey has this remarkable ability, which is very rare, of stilling the opposition. What I mean by this, is when the ball comes near him his confidence and close control is such that the opposition are reluctant to dive in, for fear of him spinning away. The upshot is to slow the opposition down, sometimes to a standstill - you can see it in the Ramsey clips from both recent games. This is what Barcelona do so well as a team - but Ramsey has the same quality. It's a rare quality, and not obvious - but it goes a long way to explaining why Wenger has perservered with him, when ignorant others "don't get him". Absolutely spot on. The game controller controls the game and this is Ramsey's greatest attribute. If the other team does not have the ball they cannot score. The less time they have the ball the less likely you are to lose. At his best Ramsey is the heartbeat, and he is returning to his best. Add to this Ramsey's capability going forward with assists and goals (they will surely come back to his game soon) and you have a player who is more important to Wales than Bale. On some of the Arsenal forums the Ramsey haters are disappearing up the cracks of their own arses. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 1, 2013 10:12:35 GMT
One of the reasons I'm so exited about Joniesta is that his drive perfectly complements the qualities of Allen and Ramsey. That trio together will be a trio of the highest quality. That's the main reason for confidence going forward - because for the first time in our history we have the possibility of possessing an engine room that will compare favourably with the best in the world. I am going to nominate you for poster of the year Alarch! This is spot on and it is the main reason why I am so optimistic for the next few years. If I could describe Joniesta in one word it would be incisive. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 1, 2013 13:15:15 GMT
One of the reasons I'm so exited about Joniesta is that his drive perfectly complements the qualities of Allen and Ramsey. That trio together will be a trio of the highest quality. That's the main reason for confidence going forward - because for the first time in our history we have the possibility of possessing an engine room that will compare favourably with the best in the world. I am going to nominate you for poster of the year Alarch! This is spot on and it is the main reason why I am so optimistic for the next few years. If I could describe Joniesta in one word it would be incisive. Yes!! Also Tom Lawrence, Emyr Huws and Chris Dawson are very talented midfielders coming through. Future is exciting!! |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 1, 2013 16:26:01 GMT
One of the reasons I'm so exited about Joniesta is that his drive perfectly complements the qualities of Allen and Ramsey. That trio together will be a trio of the highest quality. That's the main reason for confidence going forward - because for the first time in our history we have the possibility of possessing an engine room that will compare favourably with the best in the world. Spot on Alarch! |
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Post by alarch on Apr 1, 2013 18:51:23 GMT
"If its a skill to play those sorts of passes then I must, I admit, be a bit of a philistine because to me what Ramsey is doing there is bread and butter stuff for a top level Premier League player. Imo I think it cuts the other way too and we laud players simply for doing the basics, a sort of emperors new clothes so to speak."
No, no and no. This again misses the point. What Ramsey and Allen do so well isn't just complete a high percentage of their passes, but so many of their balls are delivered with exactly the right weight and direction. This is no trivial matter, as it is crucial to being able to transition play from defence to attack. Look again at those videos of the Scotland and Reading games and you will see how many perfectly weighted and directed passes Ramsey delivers.
The reason why this is so important is that Allen and Ramsey have been copping a lot of undeserved flak for their clubs, which has probably contributed to their poor form. Allen started well for Liverpool, but was given a more conservative brief than he had at Swansea, owing to the absence of Lucas, and the lack of other available options (unlike at Swansea, where the conservative brief is Britton's). I was expecting Allen to blossom on Lucas' return, and was surprised to see his downturn in form. This was probably in part down to his shoulder-injury, but the completely undeserved criticism he was getting from ignorant Liverpool fans and the likes of Shearer probably didn't help. If you constantly get slagged off for doing exactly what the manager asks of you, it's going to be tempting to go beyond your brief, and try too hard to impress. You could see this also in Ramsey's play earlier in the season, especially against Serbia. You couldn't fault him for effort, in fact the problem was that he was trying too hard, and forgetting about doing the simple things right.
I'm going to continue to hammer away at all the stupid, ignorant criticism that Ramsey and Allen get - because it can make things worse. For me, if both these players do the basics of winning possession and initiating attacking play to the standard exhibited by Ramsey in the last couple of games that is more than enough. But cut them some slack, and appreciate what they bring to the table and I'm sure we will see the full flowering of their talents, that will translate their performances from the recent 8's out of 10 to 9's and 10's.
One other thing, in that Reading game Ramsey could have had 4 assists, had his fellow players finished off moves in which he delivered the final pass.
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Post by flynnfan on Apr 2, 2013 13:36:23 GMT
"If its a skill to play those sorts of passes then I must, I admit, be a bit of a philistine because to me what Ramsey is doing there is bread and butter stuff for a top level Premier League player. Imo I think it cuts the other way too and we laud players simply for doing the basics, a sort of emperors new clothes so to speak." No, no and no. This again misses the point. What Ramsey and Allen do so well isn't just complete a high percentage of their passes, but so many of their balls are delivered with exactly the right weight and direction. This is no trivial matter, as it is crucial to being able to transition play from defence to attack. Look again at those videos of the Scotland and Reading games and you will see how many perfectly weighted and directed passes Ramsey delivers. The reason why this is so important is that Allen and Ramsey have been copping a lot of undeserved flak for their clubs, which has probably contributed to their poor form. Allen started well for Liverpool, but was given a more conservative brief than he had at Swansea, owing to the absence of Lucas, and the lack of other available options (unlike at Swansea, where the conservative brief is Britton's). I was expecting Allen to blossom on Lucas' return, and was surprised to see his downturn in form. This was probably in part down to his shoulder-injury, but the completely undeserved criticism he was getting from ignorant Liverpool fans and the likes of Shearer probably didn't help. If you constantly get slagged off for doing exactly what the manager asks of you, it's going to be tempting to go beyond your brief, and try too hard to impress. You could see this also in Ramsey's play earlier in the season, especially against Serbia. You couldn't fault him for effort, in fact the problem was that he was trying too hard, and forgetting about doing the simple things right. I'm going to continue to hammer away at all the stupid, ignorant criticism that Ramsey and Allen get - because it can make things worse. For me, if both these players do the basics of winning possession and initiating attacking play to the standard exhibited by Ramsey in the last couple of games that is more than enough. But cut them some slack, and appreciate what they bring to the table and I'm sure we will see the full flowering of their talents, that will translate their performances from the recent 8's out of 10 to 9's and 10's. One other thing, in that Reading game Ramsey could have had 4 assists, had his fellow players finished off moves in which he delivered the final pass. Excellent post. Its worth reading Steve Claridge's scouting report from when Rambo was 17 again: www.guardian.co.uk/football/2008/may/06/cardiffcity.championship'The thing that leaps out at you from his game is his appreciation of a pass. It was second to none. When a team-mate received the ball from him, the pass almost told him where his opponent was. It had all the information on it that you would need and it was, invariably, the right ball' |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 2, 2013 15:35:35 GMT
I'm not criticising him or Allen for keeping it simple, I just don't see the point in lavishing praise over a 3 minute video where most of the passes I would expect a lot of prem footballers to be able to make given they are at the peak of their profession. The jury, for me, is still out on whether Ramsey (and Allen) can play in a midfield where they are denied time and space on the ball- this was evident under Speed yet our opponents were slow to pick up on it. Bosnia seemed to target us in that respect and our midfield fulcrum was taken out of the game. Given that a lot of our play is based around short passing that can pretty much dismantle our game plan in one fell swoop. That's always been my worry going forward with those two in a midfield partnership, close them both down quickly and they are not half as effective as they struggle without time on the ball- hence why i have lone advocated under Speed that we have a plan B, I still think this is relevant now.
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Post by alarch on Apr 2, 2013 16:47:56 GMT
The reality is that most British Premier League players can't consistently deliver the sort of passes that Ramsey and Allen deliver. This is why the likes of Henderson and Downing struggled so much when Rodgers took over at Liverpool. Months on the training ground is now delivering a more refined product, and I bet you anything that their completion rates have increased. Perhaps you should watch Swansea more, and then you might understand the value of players like Allen and Ramsey.
As for the likes of Allen and Ramsey being able to play in confined spaces - that's their forte. Obviously, any player who's off form can struggle, but in general both excel in comparison with their peers in precisely that regard. Ramsey was closed down against the Scots - but look at how many times he spins away with the ball, or delivers a perfect pass. The advantage of having players that can play their way out of confined spaces is that if the opposition close you down, once you get past the defensive cordon the pitch really opens up. With the likes of Bale and Joniesta in the team we will then be able to really hurt teams.
I have posted in the past on the need to have a critical mass of players who are able to play tiki taka. With the addition of Joniesta, we have now (subject to player availability of course) reached that critical mass - certainly in the middle of the park. What's great about our prospects going forward is the flexibility we have. We have the raw pace in Bale to hit teams on the break, and against anyone who dares to play a high defensive line. We also have the players to squeeze the life out of the opposition by passing them to a standstill. Happy days indeed.
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Post by rushlegend on Apr 3, 2013 20:08:01 GMT
I think the passes that Ramsey & Allen play has also given the rest of the players confidence to do this which has never happened before, Matthews (before injury), B Davies and even J Collins passed the ball around quite well against Croatia when able to.
Add the fact also that Ashley Williams can hit tremendous long passes from defence is another great weapon.
I can only remember long balls and crosses that gave Rush & Hughes amunition in the 1980's and no disrespect we could hardly string together more than two passes together in any of the teams from the 1970's to recent times.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 6, 2013 21:40:05 GMT
Last three matches he's played Arsenal are unbeaten. When he was replaced Diaby against the Swans he was like his old self again. If by May, Arsenal do not get fourth, it'll be his fault?
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Post by Deleted on Apr 13, 2013 17:50:07 GMT
Aaron Ramsey attempted the 2nd most passes in the Premier League today with 79. He made (6) tackles today, more than any other player on the pitch. MOTM on the Arsenal website poll.
He's been in very good form for Arsenal recently.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 13, 2013 20:30:56 GMT
Aaron Ramsey has won 94% of his 48 attempted tackles. 45/48.
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Post by welshiron on Apr 15, 2013 15:34:59 GMT
Had a very good game on Saturday, only 2 Arsenal players have played more than him this season
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Post by Deleted on Apr 16, 2013 21:28:34 GMT
Those gooners are starting to sound just like the spuds when Bale started turning things around.
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Post by squatter1 on Apr 17, 2013 9:03:43 GMT
Watching Ramsey last night - probably arsenals best or second best player. What's amazing is that he's psychologically getting over the leg break. He's finally now not shirking any contact - with or without the ball. He's not top form yet, but he's getting there. His stats tell a story - highest tackles won percentage of any midfielder in the league... www.eplindex.com/30520/aaron-ramsey-making-lost-time-arsenal-stats-analysis.html |
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Post by Tim P on Apr 17, 2013 10:28:39 GMT
His role definitely seems to be deep lying midfielder/ quarterback now, which actually works well for us. A top form Ramsey and Allen in the centre of the field is formidable.
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Post by squatter1 on Apr 17, 2013 10:49:02 GMT
His role definitely seems to be deep lying midfielder/ quarterback now, which actually works well for us. A top form Ramsey and Allen in the centre of the field is formidable. That's true but don't you think it's a better use of our resources to play Ramsey as AM, or at least a box-to-box midfielder given 1: the relative weakness we have in the three positions behind the striker (Bale, Williams, Bellamy (not for much longer) and then we're into the likes of HRK and Collison) 2. The strength in depth we have in deep lying position (Allen, Vaughan, Ledley, King, Collison, Crofts) and 3. Perhaps we need a bit of physical presence in midfield from either Ledley/King/Collison/Crofts as we a little lightweight if we play a combo of, say, Allen/Ramsey/Vaughan/Williams in the central three? Hence, I reckon our first choice right now (not counting Bellamy) in midfield is: Bale Ramsey Williams Allen Ledley Ledley's my only doubt in that - could be Collison/King depending on form. |
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Post by flynnfan on Apr 17, 2013 14:29:07 GMT
'Ramsey's redemption continues he was very good again today, made a couple of errors but never in a defensively dangerous area. Good work and never stopped trying to make stuff happen'
'It's good to see us competing physically like that and for Ramsay to be out best player again after all the stick he has taken recently from our supposed fans'
'...I thought Aaron Ramsey was superb last night, and has been our hardest worker in the last few weeks. Who'd have thought he'd have something to give playing in central midfield eh? Shocker that one'
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All comments taken from the football365 mailbox- previously a mecca for the Rambo haters. He seems to be turning it round. Why? Simple: class is permanent.
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Post by Tim P on Apr 17, 2013 16:57:32 GMT
His role definitely seems to be deep lying midfielder/ quarterback now, which actually works well for us. A top form Ramsey and Allen in the centre of the field is formidable. That's true but don't you think it's a better use of our resources to play Ramsey as AM, or at least a box-to-box midfielder given 1: the relative weakness we have in the three positions behind the striker (Bale, Williams, Bellamy (not for much longer) and then we're into the likes of HRK and Collison) 2. The strength in depth we have in deep lying position (Allen, Vaughan, Ledley, King, Collison, Crofts) and 3. Perhaps we need a bit of physical presence in midfield from either Ledley/King/Collison/Crofts as we a little lightweight if we play a combo of, say, Allen/Ramsey/Vaughan/Williams in the central three? Hence, I reckon our first choice right now (not counting Bellamy) in midfield is: Bale Ramsey Williams Allen Ledley Ledley's my only doubt in that - could be Collison/King depending on form. Definitely see your point there, but he does seem to have a bit of edge now, which when you combine with his footballing skill marks him out as essential to be part of the midfield. When I say deep lying I don't mean Makalele, more like Xavi i.e. playmaking from a withdrawn position. But at least what we have now is options. Just need one more forward and a decent centre back! |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 17, 2013 17:15:04 GMT
'Ramsey's redemption continues he was very good again today, made a couple of errors but never in a defensively dangerous area. Good work and never stopped trying to make stuff happen' 'It's good to see us competing physically like that and for Ramsay to be out best player again after all the stick he has taken recently from our supposed fans' '...I thought Aaron Ramsey was superb last night, and has been our hardest worker in the last few weeks. Who'd have thought he'd have something to give playing in central midfield eh? Shocker that one' ------------ All comments taken from the football365 mailbox- previously a mecca for the Rambo haters. He seems to be turning it round. Why? Simple: class is permanent. Karma returns to bite them on the ass brilliant! |
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Post by morg on Apr 17, 2013 18:16:45 GMT
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