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Post by johnoster on Sept 19, 2019 16:28:14 GMT
So do you think he's good or not?
You seem to think it's reputations that "drag teams over the line".
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Post by CrackityJones on Sept 19, 2019 16:28:54 GMT
Yeah your views on Ramsey's contribution to the WC campaign are well documented throughout this thread, some of which I agree with.
However, I'm specifically taking about the impact he will have playing in Giggs' side over the next four games. He will be the missing link in the final third and if deployed correctly, should be the catalyst to us qualifying.
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Post by cadno on Sept 19, 2019 19:00:41 GMT
Looks like he's bulked a bit?
His energetic running was good to see, can't wait for him to be back in a Welsh shirt.
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Post by insertname on Sept 19, 2019 23:10:50 GMT
So do you think he's good or not? You seem to think it's reputations that "drag teams over the line". Well, if his reputation could put on a pair of boots it would be a world beater. The actual reality, at least in a Welsh shirt (and that’s a key distinction that needs to be made) sadly usually flatters to deceive in key games where it falls on him to make things happen- excepting the Euros where we saw what can happen when a Wales team has the chance to play a number of games over a short period of time like a club side. That particular moment in time he did live up to the hype. All I’m saying is I feel his reputation goes before him, at least on this forum when it comes to Wales. It was very conspicuous that ROI made a beeline straight for Allen. Once he had gone off they didn’t bother giving any punishment to Ramsey because they could see he was positively helping them by wilting under the expectation. Contrast that with Eriksen who made that raggle taggle Irish side his bitch. Perhaps Ramsey’s real value lies somewhat beyond flashy performances as I will totally concede that there were some numbers churned on Wales victories mid way through the WC campaign (IIRC) that suggested that we won more games when Ramsey played than Bale. Fair enough. So perhaps looking for him to give all action performances is asking too much and his influence is far more subtle? However reading some of the opinions on here you would be forgiven for expecting him to be the sort of player that takes games by the scruff of the neck and single handedly win them on his own. Dragging his team mates along with him. |
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Post by allezlesrouges on Sept 20, 2019 8:42:28 GMT
So do you think he's good or not? You seem to think it's reputations that "drag teams over the line". Well, if his reputation could put on a pair of boots it would be a world beater. The actual reality, at least in a Welsh shirt (and that’s a key distinction that needs to be made) sadly usually flatters to deceive in key games where it falls on him to make things happen- excepting the Euros where we saw what can happen when a Wales team has the chance to play a number of games over a short period of time like a club side. That particular moment in time he did live up to the hype. All I’m saying is I feel his reputation goes before him, at least on this forum when it comes to Wales. It was very conspicuous that ROI made a beeline straight for Allen. Once he had gone off they didn’t bother giving any punishment to Ramsey because they could see he was positively helping them by wilting under the expectation. Contrast that with Eriksen who made that raggle taggle Irish side his bitch. Perhaps Ramsey’s real value lies somewhat beyond flashy performances as I will totally concede that there were some numbers churned on Wales victories mid way through the WC campaign (IIRC) that suggested that we won more games when Ramsey played than Bale. Fair enough. So perhaps looking for him to give all action performances is asking too much and his influence is far more subtle? However reading some of the opinions on here you would be forgiven for expecting him to be the sort of player that takes games by the scruff of the neck and single handedly win them on his own. Dragging his team mates along with him. ROI targeted Allen to stop quality ball getting to Ramsey, i.e you stop the build up play from working properly then you don’t have to defend players like Ramsey in dangerous areas. Also you can afford to double up on him if there is no threat anywhere else on the pitch. This game did show however, that Ramsey on his own he can’t lift the team like Bale could at that time. This isn’t surprising, football is a team game. Have a think about this, when was the last time Ramsey started in the number 10 position for us, in the 4-2-3-1 we now favour? Answer; the 4-1 win against Ireland, our best attacking performance under Giggs. The reason I think he is the most important player for us now is that his qualities are exactly what this team is currently missing, the one that perfectly links together attack and defence in and out of possession. In all honesty we don’t have anyone else like him who can fill in that role, and when he’s not in the squad we are going to struggle to be more coherent. I’m hoping my hypothesis is tested against Slovakia, and I expect our best performance of the campaign IF we can field James-Ramsey-Bale, with Allen in behind at the very least. |
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Post by alarch on Sept 20, 2019 9:33:08 GMT
There's lots I agree with in your post but I can't agree with this: "his qualities are exactly what this team is currently missing, the one that perfectly links together attack and defence in and out of possession". Joniesta provided that in both of the recent games. Yes, he currently lacks the final ball and goalscoring capability of Ramsey, but Jonny Williams made the difference in attack and defence that secured both victories recently. That's not to say we couldn't do with both being available, and, if there was a straight choice between Ramsey and Jonny Williams at number 10, then Ramsey would be selected.
I don't know what it is with Jonny Williams, but his contribution to the Welsh cause has been consistently underestimated over the years. I can only think that his lengthy absences and his club status make people underestimate his consistent high level contribution to the Welsh cause. The only game I can think of where he didn't have an impact was the Euro semi-final. Against Slovakia, England and Northern Ireland he made an important contribution.
Whether or not Jonny Williams starts in the forthcoming double-header will depend on the form and match fitness of the likes of Ampadu and Ramsey (as well as his own of course...). But it would be entirely unsurprising if we reflect in a month's time on a decisive contribution from Jonny Williams, whether from the start, or off the bench.
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Post by johnoster on Sept 20, 2019 10:10:15 GMT
Ramsey isn't a natural 10. He's creative but doesn't have the vision or composure to dictate from there.
In a deeper midfield position he's susceptible to giving the ball away in bad areas.
I think he is a vital player for us, but his role needs to be understood better and expectations tempered.
I don't think Giggs is the man to get the best out of him.
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Post by alarch on Sept 20, 2019 10:41:07 GMT
Ramsey isn't a natural 10. He's creative but doesn't have the vision or composure to dictate from there. In a deeper midfield position he's susceptible to giving the ball away in bad areas. I think he is a vital player for us, but his role needs to be understood better and expectations tempered. I don't think Giggs is the man to get the best out of him. I hope you're wrong, but suspect you're right. |
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Post by johnoster on Sept 20, 2019 10:53:32 GMT
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Post by allezlesrouges on Sept 20, 2019 13:06:11 GMT
There's lots I agree with in your post but I can't agree with this: "his qualities are exactly what this team is currently missing, the one that perfectly links together attack and defence in and out of possession". Joniesta provided that in both of the recent games. Yes, he currently lacks the final ball and goalscoring capability of Ramsey, but Jonny Williams made the difference in attack and defence that secured both victories recently. That's not to say we couldn't do with both being available, and, if there was a straight choice between Ramsey and Jonny Williams at number 10, then Ramsey would be selected. I don't know what it is with Jonny Williams, but his contribution to the Welsh cause has been consistently underestimated over the years. I can only think that his lengthy absences and his club status make people underestimate his consistent high level contribution to the Welsh cause. The only game I can think of where he didn't have an impact was the Euro semi-final. Against Slovakia, England and Northern Ireland he made an important contribution. Whether or not Jonny Williams starts in the forthcoming double-header will depend on the form and match fitness of the likes of Ampadu and Ramsey (as well as his own of course...). But it would be entirely unsurprising if we reflect in a month's time on a decisive contribution from Jonny Williams, whether from the start, or off the bench. I was very encouraged by Jonny’s performances recently, and I would be more than happy for him to play 10 in future when Ramsey is not available. I don’t underestimate him, he’s always been able to perform at international level and I’m very happy he’s back in the squad an effecting games. In an ideal world we could have had Jonny and Ramsey start against Azerbaijan, and I think we’d have been a lot better in central areas if we had done this. With this in mind, I do think Ramsey just offers that game defining quality that so far Jonny hasn’t provided to the same degree, despite his all round good play. I think that star quality is what we’re missing at the moment. Also factor in Ramsey’s engine, meaning instead of playing as an out and out no.10, he can be almost an 8.5. I think this is what makes him world class. |
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Post by alarch on Sept 20, 2019 14:34:57 GMT
I don't disagree with any of that, but what is a shame is that we haven't seen Jonny Williams play in a central three, because I think that could be his most influential position for Wales. We need players who are very comfortable on the ball, tenacious defensively and offer us a way of progressing the ball into attacking areas - Jonny Williams ticks all those boxes.
Ramsey offers the cutting edge up top, but I think any combination of fully fit Allen, Ampadu and Joniesta could complement Ramsey's more offensive capabilities, in a middle three. I take iot's point about familiarity with the role, and so the conservative selection, if all are fit and in form, would be to go with an Ampadu, Allen, Ramsey midfield combo, but Joniesta needs to be more at the front of Giggs' thinking rather than an afterthought. His performances in the last two games may well have changed the way Giggs views him, if not the Welsh fanbase.
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Post by allezlesrouges on Sept 20, 2019 16:44:54 GMT
I don't disagree with any of that, but what is a shame is that we haven't seen Jonny Williams play in a central three, because I think that could be his most influential position for Wales. We need players who are very comfortable on the ball, tenacious defensively and offer us a way of progressing the ball into attacking areas - Jonny Williams ticks all those boxes. Ramsey offers the cutting edge up top, but I think any combination of fully fit Allen, Ampadu and Joniesta could complement Ramsey's more offensive capabilities, in a middle three. I take iot's point about familiarity with the role, and so the conservative selection, if all are fit and in form, would be to go with an Ampadu, Allen, Ramsey midfield combo, but Joniesta needs to be more at the front of Giggs' thinking rather than an afterthought. His performances in the last two games may well have changed the way Giggs views him, if not the Welsh fanbase. His return to the fold certainly makes me feel more confident about our options in the middle of the pitch. Suddenly now we have 4 CM's who all offer different qualities and can claim to deserve a starting berth when fit. Morrell another option who could well be important in the absence of Allen etc. Hopefully Matt Smith progresses after a slow start at QPR. If all stay fit and continue on current trajectory CM suddenly doesn't become too much of a problem area for us. |
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Post by cadno on Sept 20, 2019 20:53:37 GMT
One Juve website has put Ramsey in their 'probable' line-up for tomorrow's game.
We'll wait and see 💪
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Post by iot on Sept 20, 2019 22:20:19 GMT
Ramsey isn't a natural 10. He's creative but doesn't have the vision or composure to dictate from there. In a deeper midfield position he's susceptible to giving the ball away in bad areas. I think he is a vital player for us, but his role needs to be understood better and expectations tempered. I don't think Giggs is the man to get the best out of him. Mostly agree with this. I've followed ramsey really closely since the 2012/13 season because, when on form, he's such an enjoyable player to watch. What I can say is, when on form, he's a complete midfield player who can do everything - industrious, making excellent and numerous defensive contributions, distribution and the final third cutting edge. The main season that showed this was 2013/14 where he played alongside arteta and behind ozil. As well as scoring 18 goals and recording 7 assists that season, before his injury around christmas time he was top of the table for tackles made and (I believe) kms covered. This report nicely summaries the impact he had in all areas of the pitch: "Ramsey’s scoring success has not in any way compromised his position in the back of the field. In 18 Premier League games, Ramsey has been responsible for 66 tackles and 19 interceptions. Additionally, Ramsey is a passing machine, completing 434 passes successfully in the first three months of the season. That tally ranked 169 passes ahead of Ramsey’s next closest teammate." bleacherreport.com/articles/1923625-why-aaron-ramsey-has-been-arsenals-mvp-thus-far-in-the-2013-14-season This compilation perfectly encapsulates what he's all about in a single performance - in defence, midfield and attack: www.youtube.com/watch?v=SI34qaOn5BIFor a longer view of what he's all about, if you're sad enough this 25min+ compilation of his 2013/14 performance is a joy to watch. www.youtube.com/watch?v=h_xbCWMQCt0What I'm trying to get across is, contrary to the common myth ramsey isn't an out and out 10. He's far more effective when he's playing deeper, where he can enter 'god mode' as some arsenal fans put it in getting the tackles in, dictating play, running from deep on and off the ball. The goals and assists are the cherry on top. He's not half as comfortable when he receives the ball higher up the pitch with limited space and several defenders on him. To get the best out of him, we need to play a 433 with adefensive mid behind him and allen on the other side. |
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Post by fiveattheback on Sept 20, 2019 23:33:21 GMT
13/14 Ramsey was something else, a glimpse of his true talent. He's a top player anyway, had he avoided injuries (Particularly THAT injury) he would be incredible
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Post by abwales on Sept 21, 2019 15:11:59 GMT
Ramsey starts!
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Post by CrackityJones on Sept 21, 2019 16:34:08 GMT
GOOOOOOLAZO!
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Post by abwales on Sept 21, 2019 17:21:09 GMT
Off after 60 mins... good run out. Played well.
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Post by allezlesrouges on Sept 21, 2019 17:37:42 GMT
Fantastic start! It's brilliant hearing his name ring around the stadium like that.
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Post by pendragon on Sept 21, 2019 20:43:37 GMT
Way to go Ramsey!
What a brilliant debut, and almost eclipsed Ronaldo by bagging the first goal (his mate Bale would know all about that 😜).
Anyone know where I might be able to watch a replay of this game?
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Post by cadno on Sept 22, 2019 7:34:48 GMT
Ramsey isn't a natural 10. He's creative but doesn't have the vision or composure to dictate from there. In a deeper midfield position he's susceptible to giving the ball away in bad areas. I think he is a vital player for us, but his role needs to be understood better and expectations tempered. I don't think Giggs is the man to get the best out of him. Mostly agree with this. I've followed ramsey really closely since the 2012/13 season because, when on form, he's such an enjoyable player to watch. What I can say is, when on form, he's a complete midfield player who can do everything - industrious, making excellent and numerous defensive contributions, distribution and the final third cutting edge. The main season that showed this was 2013/14 where he played alongside arteta and behind ozil. As well as scoring 18 goals and recording 7 assists that season, before his injury around christmas time he was top of the table for tackles made and (I believe) kms covered. This report nicely summaries the impact he had in all areas of the pitch: "Ramsey’s scoring success has not in any way compromised his position in the back of the field. In 18 Premier League games, Ramsey has been responsible for 66 tackles and 19 interceptions. Additionally, Ramsey is a passing machine, completing 434 passes successfully in the first three months of the season. That tally ranked 169 passes ahead of Ramsey’s next closest teammate." bleacherreport.com/articles/1923625-why-aaron-ramsey-has-been-arsenals-mvp-thus-far-in-the-2013-14-season This compilation perfectly encapsulates what he's all about in a single performance - in defence, midfield and attack: www.youtube.com/watch?v=SI34qaOn5BIFor a longer view of what he's all about, if you're sad enough this 25min+ compilation of his 2013/14 performance is a joy to watch. www.youtube.com/watch?v=h_xbCWMQCt0What I'm trying to get across is, contrary to the common myth ramsey isn't an out and out 10. He's far more effective when he's playing deeper, where he can enter 'god mode' as some arsenal fans put it in getting the tackles in, dictating play, running from deep on and off the ball. The goals and assists are the cherry on top. He's not half as comfortable when he receives the ball higher up the pitch with limited space and several defenders on him. To get the best out of him, we need to play a 433 with adefensive mid behind him and allen on the other side. good post. here's clips of his performance... youtu.be/JLzPjKwfTXs |
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Post by welshiron on Sept 22, 2019 10:09:36 GMT
Great start for Ramsey. Cant believe some people thought the wouldn't get in the team
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Post by johnoster on Sept 23, 2019 8:13:14 GMT
Perfect start for Rambo.
Juventus should manage his game time better than Arsenal did too.
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Post by cadno on Sept 23, 2019 10:53:15 GMT
I can't wait for him to be back for us. Touch wood he won't pick any injuries up now.
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Post by manulike on Sept 23, 2019 21:05:38 GMT
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Post by abwales on Sept 24, 2019 15:06:08 GMT
In the squad for the game tonight against Brescia. Will be interesting to see how many minutes he plays and where he plays.
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Post by cadno on Sept 24, 2019 15:09:20 GMT
Some reports are suggesting Juve will play a 4-3-1-2, with Ramsey playing as the 1 behind the front 2. Ronaldo being rested? manulike Can you find any streams for the game?  |
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Post by abwales on Sept 24, 2019 15:17:23 GMT
Ronaldo has a slight knock, which is a shame cause he linked up well with him last game. Going away to a lesser team I don't think it'll end well if he's playing at #10.
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Post by cadno on Sept 24, 2019 18:08:05 GMT
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Post by abwales on Sept 24, 2019 18:58:29 GMT
Starts tonight!
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