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Post by SLAMMER on Dec 16, 2015 11:22:17 GMT
what they want.
I've seen numerous posts about 'its not fair' 'its a joke' 'i'm more loyal than you'.
So, i can't think of a fair way of doing ticket allocations for a limited number of tickets where people will always feel justified that they should get one rather than someone else.
Can anyone think of the 'perfect way' it should be done?
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Post by jbt95 on Dec 16, 2015 11:32:58 GMT
I honestly think how long you've been on the database and how many memberships you'd have should play a part.
Now I know I have been on the database for an awful long time and have held the 3 memberships they are on about (maybe more I am unsure) so people will think that's why I am saying it because it suits me but it isn't, that has to count for something in my opinion or it is making a mockery of 'being loyal'. I followed the rules and guidance of members would be able to gain access for finals tickets even when realistically there was a very small chance we would reach a tournament. I didn't have the attitude (or maybe I should said my father as I was still in my early teens) of 'theres plenty of seats I won't bother booking in advance or be on the database'.
Away regulars have nothing to worry about in my opinion. Somebody who is an away regular would have got tickets for Bosnia, and a few more would have just missed out by one or two games (wasn't it 6 of the last 8 aways?) maybe. Especially those with TTs or a booking history of most if not all home matches should be going to France. Away regulars didn't start going in September 2014 even if they did all 5 of the away matches.
I'd be very annoyed to miss out to somebody, who only joined when we starting doing well, because they went away every game in 2014-15. That's not loyalty, that is being the utmost plastic going.
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Post by cymroircarn on Dec 16, 2015 11:36:47 GMT
I honestly think how long you've been on the database and how many memberships you'd have should play a part. Now I know I have been on the database for an awful long time and have held the 3 memberships they are on about (maybe more I am unsure) so people will thinking that's why I am saying it because it suits me but it isn't, that has to count for something in my opinion or it is making a mockery of 'being loyal'. I followed the rules and guidance of members would be able to gain access for finals tickets even when realistically there was a very small chance we would reach a tournament. I didn't have the attitude (or maybe I should said my father as I was still in my early teens) of 'theres plenty of seats I won't bother booking in advance or be on the database'. Away regulars have nothing to worry about in my opinion. Somebody who is an away regular would have got tickets for Bosnia, and a few more would have just missed out by one or two games (wasn't it 6 of the last 8 aways?) maybe. Away regulars didn't start going in September 2014 even if they did all 5 of the away matches. Especially them with TTs or a booking history of most if not all home matches should be going to France. I'd be very annoyed to miss out to somebody who only joined when we starting doing well because they went away every game in 2014-15. That's not loyalty, that is being the utmost plastic going. I agree 100% which is why the FAW have got it more or less spot on. Just need a bit more clarity on a few points. Remember the 2 tickets per member is a UEFA scheme and not FAW |
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Post by eppingblue on Dec 16, 2015 11:49:12 GMT
I think the points system over the last 3 tournaments. One ticket per member but I accept that's out of their control.To be really fair reward an away game with the same loyalty points as home games. At the moment someone attending one away game could earn the same points as someone who attends the 5 home games. Surely that's not right. There are people who went to the England game and to the Scotland game who need have done no more than purchase a membership this time round - they could be at the top of the pile.
I got my tickets for Bosnia and should be ok.
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Post by jbt95 on Dec 16, 2015 11:56:13 GMT
I think the points system over the last 3 tournaments. One ticket per member but I accept that's out of their control.To be really fair reward an away game with the same loyalty points as home games. At the moment someone attending one away game could earn the same points as someone who attends the 5 home games. Surely that's not right. There are people who went to the England game and to the Scotland game who need have done no more than purchase a membership this time round - they could be at the top of the pile.
I got my tickets for Bosnia and should be ok.
"There are people who went to the England game and to the Scotland game who need have done no more than purchase a membership this time round - they could be at the top of the pile." What do you mean by that? The home matches? |
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Post by bringbackelmo on Dec 16, 2015 12:00:37 GMT
For me it is less about the system and more about a) clarity and b) consistency.
I'm sure that the FAW will use a fair system but they haven't communicated it well enough at all - especially regarding the 'second tickets'. In terms of consistency, they seem to amend the criteria for every high profile game, which is a bit annoying but as long as it is clearly communicated I don't mind.
So yeah, it's not so much about the system but making sure everyone knows what the system is!
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Post by eppingblue on Dec 16, 2015 12:04:28 GMT
I think the points system over the last 3 tournaments. One ticket per member but I accept that's out of their control.To be really fair reward an away game with the same loyalty points as home games. At the moment someone attending one away game could earn the same points as someone who attends the 5 home games. Surely that's not right. There are people who went to the England game and to the Scotland game who need have done no more than purchase a membership this time round - they could be at the top of the pile.
I got my tickets for Bosnia and should be ok.
"There are people who went to the England game and to the Scotland game who need have done no more than purchase a membership this time round - they could be at the top of the pile." What do you mean by that? The home matches? No the away games. 2 games 1 each falling into the last 2 tournaments requiring 2 memberships. Buy the membership this time and your laughing. Clearly there's unlikely to be many if any fitting this extreme profile, but its possible. There are certainly people who went to the England and Scotland away games and very little else during those particular tournaments. |
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Post by jbt95 on Dec 16, 2015 12:20:52 GMT
"There are people who went to the England game and to the Scotland game who need have done no more than purchase a membership this time round - they could be at the top of the pile." What do you mean by that? The home matches? No the away games. 2 games 1 each falling into the last 2 tournaments requiring 2 memberships. Buy the membership this time and your laughing. Clearly there's unlikely to be many if any fitting this extreme profile, but its possible. There are certainly people who went to the England and Scotland away games and very little else during those particular tournaments. Do you literally mean they went away just those two and very few homes? Those are the only two away games I've been too because they were cheap and required no passport. I'd love to go to every Wales game but I have been unable in the past due to my age and therefore income. The memberships weren't bought to go away, they were bought at the start of the tournament with the tournament tickets. |
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Post by kingstonred on Dec 16, 2015 12:22:35 GMT
Do we know if loyal fans that have been to, for example: ALL HOME AND AWAY GAMES LAST 2 CAMPAIGNS are going to get ALL TICKETS IN FRANCE 2016, or are they likely to share them out - So everyone that applies and has say been to at least 1 away game, gets to go to at least one match in France?
Fair enough Loyal fans should get tickets, but I'd personally like to see all members that apply, getting to see at least 1 game!
I've been to Scotland, Belgium, Israel and Bosnia and all the home games, so I'm confident about getting tickets myself
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Post by Steve-o on Dec 16, 2015 12:32:46 GMT
Old school.. Whack the members in a spread-sheet, sort the members by 'FAW points', If we are allocated 5,000 tickets, offer the tickets to the top 5,000 point holders (who have applied). If any are left, offer them to the highest point scorers who applied for 2 tickets. Job done.
I think it's great that the FAW introduced the points system, and it was introduced at exactly the right time! I don't agree with people slating the FAW on here, seems that the FAW are in the dark with a lot of the questions being posed but I'm sure they will do all they can to reward loyal fans. To be fair, this is new to them (for obvious reasons...)
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Post by jbt95 on Dec 16, 2015 12:38:24 GMT
Do we know if loyal fans that have been to, for example: ALL HOME AND AWAY GAMES LAST 2 CAMPAIGNS are going to get ALL TICKETS IN FRANCE 2016, or are they likely to share them out - So everyone that applies and has say been to at least 1 away game, gets to go to at least one match in France? Fair enough Loyal fans should get tickets, but I'd personally like to see all members that apply, getting to see at least 1 game! I've been to Scotland, Belgium, Israel and Bosnia and all the home games, so I'm confident about getting tickets myself How did you get tickets for Bosnia? That's only 3 of the previous 8. Wasn't it 4 (or 6?) of the last 8? |
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Post by eppingblue on Dec 16, 2015 13:02:50 GMT
No the away games. 2 games 1 each falling into the last 2 tournaments requiring 2 memberships. Buy the membership this time and your laughing. Clearly there's unlikely to be many if any fitting this extreme profile, but its possible. There are certainly people who went to the England and Scotland away games and very little else during those particular tournaments. Do you literally mean they went away just those two and very few homes? Those are the only two away games I've been too because they were cheap and required no passport. I'd love to go to every Wales game but I have been unable in the past due to my age and therefore income. The memberships weren't bought to go away, they were bought at the start of the tournament with the tournament tickets.
In theory it could be those away 2 games and no other games home or away in the " now " last 3 campaigns. They would have had to purchase a membership but not necessarily attended a game this time around. As I said there are unlikely to be many who fit that profile but there were probably a number who did coming into this tournament.
It would be fairer in my opinion if all games counted equally - home or away. Perhaps even reduce the benefit of the membership to a point or 2. Its half the cost of a single home game. Basically reward people better for attending.
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Post by eppingblue on Dec 16, 2015 13:06:55 GMT
Do we know if loyal fans that have been to, for example: ALL HOME AND AWAY GAMES LAST 2 CAMPAIGNS are going to get ALL TICKETS IN FRANCE 2016, or are they likely to share them out - So everyone that applies and has say been to at least 1 away game, gets to go to at least one match in France? Fair enough Loyal fans should get tickets, but I'd personally like to see all members that apply, getting to see at least 1 game! I've been to Scotland, Belgium, Israel and Bosnia and all the home games, so I'm confident about getting tickets myself How did you get tickets for Bosnia? That's only 3 of the previous 8. Wasn't it 4 (or 6?) of the last 8?
I think it was 4 out of 6. I'd done those 3 plus Cyprus. Missed Andorra and the friendly in Holland
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Post by yanto on Dec 16, 2015 13:27:59 GMT
Which ever system it is just needs to be clear so that fans know before they apply what are realistic chances of qualifying for a ticket, as you can be confident that the first 2500 will apply, I don't think this is an unreasonable request. I have 3 memberships, TTs, 2 aways Scotland and Belgium (won't bore you/me) with all the other shite)and have to concede that its touch and go (at best) whether I will get tickets. This is though almost entirely down to the 2 ticket rule. I really can't see how difficult it is to produce the aforementioned spreadsheet (which must already exist) and let us know? Yes, I have obvious self interest not just that I have booked everything to go......I have to concede that I have been very, very naïve in thinking that qualifying to get tickets for Belgium put me into the mix for 1 in 5000 tickets. DOH!!! Certainly, if we ever qualify again I will approach it very differently. Yo.
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Post by cymruramdcfc on Dec 16, 2015 13:30:16 GMT
Simple and fairness way is points system, if you go to more games more points and then have database with you total .... At end of every year we could have a big cheer for the man... Or woman who is top  |
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Post by cymroircarn on Dec 16, 2015 13:52:45 GMT
Simple and fairness way is points system, if you go to more games more points and then have database with you total .... At end of every year we could have a big cheer for the man... Or woman who is top The above on a rolling 6 year basis so the regulars get tickets (I prefer regulars to loyal) |
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Post by eppingblue on Dec 16, 2015 14:23:16 GMT
Which ever system it is just needs to be clear so that fans know before they apply what are realistic chances of qualifying for a ticket, as you can be confident that the first 2500 will apply, I don't think this is an unreasonable request. I have 3 memberships, TTs, 2 aways Scotland and Belgium (won't bore you/me) with all the other shite)and have to concede that its touch and go (at best) whether I will get tickets. This is though almost entirely down to the 2 ticket rule. I really can't see how difficult it is to produce the aforementioned spreadsheet (which must already exist) and let us know? Yes, I have obvious self interest not just that I have booked everything to go......I have to concede that I have been very, very naïve in thinking that qualifying to get tickets for Belgium put me into the mix for 1 in 5000 tickets. DOH!!! Certainly, if we ever qualify again I will approach it very differently. Yo. You'll be ok. If they go with the 3 membership initial criteria then you'll be at the top. If they don't you will have amassed enough points to get to get tickets.
We've been very unlucky with the draw. 3 small grounds with similar capacities / allocations. It will be pretty much the same 5,000 at each of the games. If we had just got one larger stadium then a few thousand more could of got to see at least one of the games.
I cant see the Slovakia clash appealing to many outside the respective countries so there's a good chance that very significant numbers end up on the resale portal. People who don't get tickets need to be active on that.
What happens beyond the group stage. It's possible that people who are unsuccessful in the group stages get tickets ( potential ) for the rounds following.
A couple of slightly bigger potential stadiums in Lille and Parc de Princes along with a number who go to the group games knowing they cant spare the time or funds to stay longer. More tickets are likely to be available. So taking this one step further if you apply for tickets beyond the group stage your more likely to be successful for those tickets and be relieved of your money pending the tournament. What's then a kick in the teeth, would be your team reaching that stage and you still not getting a ticket cause its in a smaller stadium even though they've taken the cash. Some right operators UEFA and FIFA.
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Post by yanto on Dec 16, 2015 14:52:38 GMT
Hope your right mr eppingblue, its a long motorcycle ride to sit in a bar!! There again......
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Post by toshfan on Dec 16, 2015 16:03:46 GMT
Do we know if loyal fans that have been to, for example: ALL HOME AND AWAY GAMES LAST 2 CAMPAIGNS are going to get ALL TICKETS IN FRANCE 2016, or are they likely to share them out - So everyone that applies and has say been to at least 1 away game, gets to go to at least one match in France? Fair enough Loyal fans should get tickets, but I'd personally like to see all members that apply, getting to see at least 1 game! I've been to Scotland, Belgium, Israel and Bosnia and all the home games, so I'm confident about getting tickets myself I will be in the Kings Tun on Clarence Streettonight with a fellow Welsh Football Fan. Message me if you there. |
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Post by yanto on Dec 16, 2015 18:22:55 GMT
Hope your right mr eppingblue, its a long motorcycle ride to sit in a bar!! There again......
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Post by cholista on Dec 16, 2015 19:43:22 GMT
Thought I'd post ground capacities from the UEFA site:
Lens 35,000 (16% allocation = 5,600)
Bordeaux 42,000 (16% allocation = 6,720)
Toulouse 33,000 (16% allocation = 5,280)
(of possible last 16 grounds, Nice is exactly the same as Lens; the others are more than Bdx)
I'd have thought that anyone who made the Belgium cut will definitely get whatever ticket (FYT or individuals) they apply for even if 100% of pobl who went to Belgium bought two tickets - which is hardly likely. I base this on halving the Toulouse total - 2,640 - because this figure is more than our Belgium allocation was (2,400).
Am I missing something?
If not, and barring a totally new (and unfair) approach to the loyalty system (which I 100% do NOT expect), then all Heysel Nov. 14 attendees are covered. That doesn't solve things for everyone else, I know. But, unless I am forgetting something, at least members who got a Belg away ticket can sleep comfortably.
I think we need to bear in mind too that 1) only a certain % of people will apply on behalf of a second person, and 2) some (I hope everyone) doing so will be applying on behalf of two gold members.
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Post by welwyn on Dec 16, 2015 20:55:48 GMT
Thought I'd post ground capacities from the UEFA site: Lens 35,000 (16% allocation = 5,600) Bordeaux 42,000 (16% allocation = 6,720) Toulouse 33,000 (16% allocation = 5,280) (of possible last 16 grounds, Nice is exactly the same as Lens; the others are more than Bdx) I'd have thought that anyone who made the Belgium cut will definitely get whatever ticket (FYT or individuals) they apply for even if 100% of pobl who went to Belgium bought two tickets - which is hardly likely. I base this on halving the Toulouse total - 2,640 - because this figure is more than our Belgium allocation was (2,400). Am I missing something? If not, and barring a totally new (and unfair) approach to the loyalty system (which I 100% do NOT expect), then all Heysel Nov. 14 attendees are covered. That doesn't solve things for everyone else, I know. But, unless I am forgetting something, at least members who got a Belg away ticket can sleep comfortably. I think we need to bear in mind too that 1) only a certain % of people will apply on behalf of a second person, and 2) some (I hope everyone) doing so will be applying on behalf of two gold members. There are those that are home regulars that don't do home games though. I only have this gold membership, Belgium & Cyprus away plus all the home games bar Bosnia. I doubt that will be enough. |
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Post by eppingblue on Dec 16, 2015 21:24:44 GMT
Thought I'd post ground capacities from the UEFA site: Lens 35,000 (16% allocation = 5,600) Bordeaux 42,000 (16% allocation = 6,720) Toulouse 33,000 (16% allocation = 5,280) (of possible last 16 grounds, Nice is exactly the same as Lens; the others are more than Bdx) I'd have thought that anyone who made the Belgium cut will definitely get whatever ticket (FYT or individuals) they apply for even if 100% of pobl who went to Belgium bought two tickets - which is hardly likely. I base this on halving the Toulouse total - 2,640 - because this figure is more than our Belgium allocation was (2,400). Am I missing something? If not, and barring a totally new (and unfair) approach to the loyalty system (which I 100% do NOT expect), then all Heysel Nov. 14 attendees are covered. That doesn't solve things for everyone else, I know. But, unless I am forgetting something, at least members who got a Belg away ticket can sleep comfortably. I think we need to bear in mind too that 1) only a certain % of people will apply on behalf of a second person, and 2) some (I hope everyone) doing so will be applying on behalf of two gold members. Since Belgium a lot have bought half season tickets, a lot have bought membership and lot went to Cyprus. There could have been quite some movement in loyalty and that may well impact on those who just made the Belgium cut and have done little since. |
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Post by cymruramdcfc on Dec 16, 2015 21:41:52 GMT
Thought I'd post ground capacities from the UEFA site: Lens 35,000 (16% allocation = 5,600) Bordeaux 42,000 (16% allocation = 6,720) Toulouse 33,000 (16% allocation = 5,280) (of possible last 16 grounds, Nice is exactly the same as Lens; the others are more than Bdx) I'd have thought that anyone who made the Belgium cut will definitely get whatever ticket (FYT or individuals) they apply for even if 100% of pobl who went to Belgium bought two tickets - which is hardly likely. I base this on halving the Toulouse total - 2,640 - because this figure is more than our Belgium allocation was (2,400). Am I missing something? If not, and barring a totally new (and unfair) approach to the loyalty system (which I 100% do NOT expect), then all Heysel Nov. 14 attendees are covered. That doesn't solve things for everyone else, I know. But, unless I am forgetting something, at least members who got a Belg away ticket can sleep comfortably. I think we need to bear in mind too that 1) only a certain % of people will apply on behalf of a second person, and 2) some (I hope everyone) doing so will be applying on behalf of two gold members. There are those that are home regulars that don't do home games though. I only have this gold membership, Belgium & Cyprus away plus all the home games bar Bosnia. I doubt that will be enough. You should be well ok for ticket |
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Post by kingstonred on Dec 16, 2015 22:53:00 GMT
Do we know if loyal fans that have been to, for example: ALL HOME AND AWAY GAMES LAST 2 CAMPAIGNS are going to get ALL TICKETS IN FRANCE 2016, or are they likely to share them out - So everyone that applies and has say been to at least 1 away game, gets to go to at least one match in France? Fair enough Loyal fans should get tickets, but I'd personally like to see all members that apply, getting to see at least 1 game! I've been to Scotland, Belgium, Israel and Bosnia and all the home games, so I'm confident about getting tickets myself I will be in the Kings Tun on Clarence Streettonight with a fellow Welsh Football Fan. Message me if you there. Unfortunately not - Hopefully we can have some French beer rather than the £2.09 Carlsberg come June! |
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Post by jbt95 on Dec 17, 2015 0:35:25 GMT
Thought I'd post ground capacities from the UEFA site: Lens 35,000 (16% allocation = 5,600) Bordeaux 42,000 (16% allocation = 6,720) Toulouse 33,000 (16% allocation = 5,280) (of possible last 16 grounds, Nice is exactly the same as Lens; the others are more than Bdx) I'd have thought that anyone who made the Belgium cut will definitely get whatever ticket (FYT or individuals) they apply for even if 100% of pobl who went to Belgium bought two tickets - which is hardly likely. I base this on halving the Toulouse total - 2,640 - because this figure is more than our Belgium allocation was (2,400). Am I missing something? If not, and barring a totally new (and unfair) approach to the loyalty system (which I 100% do NOT expect), then all Heysel Nov. 14 attendees are covered. That doesn't solve things for everyone else, I know. But, unless I am forgetting something, at least members who got a Belg away ticket can sleep comfortably. I think we need to bear in mind too that 1) only a certain % of people will apply on behalf of a second person, and 2) some (I hope everyone) doing so will be applying on behalf of two gold members. Since Belgium a lot have bought half season tickets, a lot have bought membership and lot went to Cyprus. There could have been quite some movement in loyalty and that may well impact on those who just made the Belgium cut and have done little since. Would that equate to the same as a membership and a full TT? I imagine half of the Belgium away fans went to Cyprus at least. |
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Post by yanto on Dec 17, 2015 6:55:10 GMT
Since Belgium a lot have bought half season tickets, a lot have bought membership and lot went to Cyprus. There could have been quite some movement in loyalty and that may well impact on those who just made the Belgium cut and have done little since. Would that equate to the same as a membership and a full TT? I imagine half of the Belgium away fans went to Cyprus at least. Not sure thats loyality but proverbial bandwagon, if this were to influence priority i would have serious concerns as to why i have bothered with any memberships/tts, for what i say?! |
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Post by welwyn on Dec 17, 2015 9:24:57 GMT
Since Belgium a lot have bought half season tickets, a lot have bought membership and lot went to Cyprus. There could have been quite some movement in loyalty and that may well impact on those who just made the Belgium cut and have done little since. Would that equate to the same as a membership and a full TT? I imagine half of the Belgium away fans went to Cyprus at least. I was kind of explaining why those who went to Belgium might not all be ok. The reason I didn't have a membership before this campaign is because I used to work in Sports Broadcasting in a role that meant I was working during the same period we were playing (the same reason I couldn't do Bosnia home and therefore didn't get a TT). I have no qualms in missing out if I can't go. In some ways seeing us qualifying was almost enough (live at least, would be very disappointed if we didn't make it out the group). |
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Post by readingfcwelshman on Dec 17, 2015 11:51:38 GMT
Thought I'd post ground capacities from the UEFA site: Lens 35,000 (16% allocation = 5,600) Bordeaux 42,000 (16% allocation = 6,720) Toulouse 33,000 (16% allocation = 5,280) (of possible last 16 grounds, Nice is exactly the same as Lens; the others are more than Bdx) I'd have thought that anyone who made the Belgium cut will definitely get whatever ticket (FYT or individuals) they apply for even if 100% of pobl who went to Belgium bought two tickets - which is hardly likely. I base this on halving the Toulouse total - 2,640 - because this figure is more than our Belgium allocation was (2,400). Am I missing something? If not, and barring a totally new (and unfair) approach to the loyalty system (which I 100% do NOT expect), then all Heysel Nov. 14 attendees are covered. That doesn't solve things for everyone else, I know. But, unless I am forgetting something, at least members who got a Belg away ticket can sleep comfortably. I think we need to bear in mind too that 1) only a certain % of people will apply on behalf of a second person, and 2) some (I hope everyone) doing so will be applying on behalf of two gold members. There are those that are home regulars that don't do home games though. I only have this gold membership, Belgium & Cyprus away plus all the home games bar Bosnia. I doubt that will be enough. The criteria for Belgium wasn't particularly strict though. I think it was having a membership plus at least one of Tournament Ticket, Andorra away or Netherlands away. If they set that as the criteria then there will be thousands that can apply! I, for instance, did Andorra away but didn't apply for Belgium as I couldn't make that game, and I'm sure there are many others who were in the same boat. What would be nice was if they were prioritise fans that have had an active away support recently - I suspect if it were one per ticket then they would easily be able to accommodate anyone that went to any away game this campaign, but with it now at two per member then I would imagine they would have enough for fans that did two (or even three) aways - those in Bosnia, Andorra or Israel were unlikely to have only done one trip this campaign. However, only the FAW have the numbers, and without those it really is anyone's guess |
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Post by cymroircarn on Dec 17, 2015 12:10:31 GMT
Remember it is over a number of campaigns not just this one to ensure the regulars are looked after.
I believe only 1500 have had a membership for the last 3 campaigns and less than 700 of these have been to 4 of the last 8 aways (as per the Bosnia criteria)
I believe the regular who has been a member for 3 campaigns with an away here and there is more "loyal" than someone who has done all games this campaign
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