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Post by barneycat1 on Nov 11, 2023 21:40:25 GMT
Let him loose against Armenia. He is on fire
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Post by hooky on Nov 12, 2023 1:46:31 GMT
He always gives 100% for us and as I have said - in the last 4 years or so - he has been our most effective player on a consistent basis. He should get far more praise from our fans
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Post by iantov on Nov 12, 2023 3:48:46 GMT
He always gives 100% for us and as I have said - in the last 4 years or so - he has been our most effective player on a consistent basis. He should get far more praise from our fans I have been one of his biggest critics over the years, certainly not in terms of his application and work rate but I always felt that he didn't have a natural football brain. His decision making, final pass, finishing and 'naiveness' annoyed and sometimes exasperated me as I felt he could be so much better. However, the change in him has been absolutely fabulous, off the scale, and he now looks like he would be an asset to any team, he's at Premiership level now.
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Post by allezlesrouges on Nov 12, 2023 10:42:32 GMT
He always gives 100% for us and as I have said - in the last 4 years or so - he has been our most effective player on a consistent basis. He should get far more praise from our fans I have been one of his biggest critics over the years, certainly not in terms of his application and work rate but I always felt that he didn't have a natural football brain. His decision making, final pass, finishing and 'naiveness' annoyed and sometimes exasperated me as I felt he could be so much better. However, the change in him has been absolutely fabulous, off the scale, and he now looks like he would be an asset to any team, he's at Premiership level now. I still don't think we can say this until we see him doing it at Premiership level tbh. I've been an advocate for him dropping down for a while now, and it seems to be a good thing for him. However, I think regular minutes in a strong team within the league is what he needs. If he goes up a level he won't be getting that, it's back against the wall defending - which he's good at but reduces his output a lot I'd say
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Post by superunknown on Nov 12, 2023 11:08:20 GMT
I have been one of his biggest critics over the years, certainly not in terms of his application and work rate but I always felt that he didn't have a natural football brain. His decision making, final pass, finishing and 'naiveness' annoyed and sometimes exasperated me as I felt he could be so much better. However, the change in him has been absolutely fabulous, off the scale, and he now looks like he would be an asset to any team, he's at Premiership level now. I still don't think we can say this until we see him doing it at Premiership level tbh. I've been an advocate for him dropping down for a while now, and it seems to be a good thing for him. However, I think regular minutes in a strong team within the league is what he needs. If he goes up a level he won't be getting that, it's back against the wall defending - which he's good at but reduces his output a lot I'd say Yeah it’s a difficult one isn’t it. While it’s nice having players in probably the best league in the world, it doesn’t do much for us if players: 1. Aren’t getting minutes; 2. Are losing confidence because they’re getting battered every week or 3. Can’t impose themselves on games as much as the quality is so high. Don’t get me wrong it’s great if they’re in that league playing against the best in the world as we’re obviously going to come up against those types of players/teams in qualifiers and tournaments and it’s important to have that experience. But I think it’s more important players are getting regular minutes and building up their confidence.
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Post by morg on Dec 9, 2023 14:41:42 GMT
3rd goal in 3 games and another win for Yorkshire Welsh. Ipswich have Leicester and Leeds to play over Christmas so could get interesting.
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Post by hooky on Dec 9, 2023 17:10:44 GMT
He was in good form before our recent double header but Page for some strange reason chose to play 2 players who had not played for their clubs for about a month instead.
Hope Page gets it right for the play offs!
Good to see James showing what an excellent player he is!
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Post by njdragon on Dec 9, 2023 23:26:50 GMT
He was in good form before our recent double header but Page for some strange reason chose to play 2 players who had not played for their clubs for about a month instead. Hope Page gets it right for the play offs! Good to see James showing what an excellent player he is! And for months/years all we heard from fans is how shit James is and how he should never be starting. Shows how fickle we all are and how we know sweet FA
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Post by hooky on Dec 9, 2023 23:51:51 GMT
Well I am on the record here many times that he has been Wales most consistently effective/excellent player for Wales over the last few years. He always gives 100% and has also produced quality in attack at key moments for us He is such a whole hearted guy I really hope he enjoys the best 5+ years of his career - as we can see he has quality - I think his confidence got hit in the Premiership but look at him right now
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Post by iot on Dec 10, 2023 11:22:25 GMT
He was in good form before our recent double header but Page for some strange reason chose to play 2 players who had not played for their clubs for about a month instead. Hope Page gets it right for the play offs! Good to see James showing what an excellent player he is! This constant rewriting of history is so tiresome. The front 3 of Moore/Brooks/Wilson were brilliant against Croatia and all the talk was that we'd stumbled across our best system and starting xi. There was recognition that James is a very different tyoe of player, not suited to the 10 role, and that having those two 10s was a big reason for good, recent performances. The vast majority were calling for no changes going into Armenia, and that's exactly what Page did. When James did make it off the bench, his impact was very disappointing unfortunately. It's so disingenuous to now say that Page should 100% have started James in the last game when very few were calling for it.
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Post by morg on Dec 10, 2023 11:26:32 GMT
He was in good form before our recent double header but Page for some strange reason chose to play 2 players who had not played for their clubs for about a month instead. Hope Page gets it right for the play offs! Good to see James showing what an excellent player he is! This constant rewriting of history is so tiresome. The front 3 of Moore/Brooks/Wilson were brilliant against Croatia and all the talk was that we'd stumbled across our best system and starting xi. There was recognition that James is a very different tyoe of player, not suited to the 10 role, and that having those two 10s was a big reason for good, recent performances. The vast majority were calling for no changes going into Armenia, and that's exactly what Page did. When James did make it off the bench, his impact was very disappointing unfortunately. It's so disingenuous to now say that Page should 100% have started James in the last game when very few were calling for it. Agree. Agree also that Wales benefit from Dan James being in the starting 11. Bring him in for Connor at wing back.
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Post by reyrey on Dec 10, 2023 14:46:26 GMT
Not a wing back at all imo
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Post by melynwy on Dec 10, 2023 14:57:24 GMT
Not a wing back at all imo Can you expand on that? He has a skill set very suited to a wing-back. Why do you think he's not suited at all? I know he doesn't have a history of playing there, but that's not to say he doesn't fit the mould.
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Post by winsumluzsum on Dec 10, 2023 15:16:28 GMT
There's only one way to find out, and that's to experiment in a friendly or two. Remember Victor Moses being successfully converted to a wing back for Chelsea?
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Post by morg on Dec 10, 2023 15:22:27 GMT
I think it's worth looking at. We seem to be better with 3 at the back. If that's the case, your width comes from your wing backs. DJ is at his most threatening for us out wide plus it allows us to play two 10s. He's got great work rate plus if we played him on the left, (with Neco going right) he'd have Ben Davies as support.
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Post by hooky on Dec 10, 2023 15:23:05 GMT
He was in good form before our recent double header but Page for some strange reason chose to play 2 players who had not played for their clubs for about a month instead. Hope Page gets it right for the play offs! Good to see James showing what an excellent player he is! This constant rewriting of history is so tiresome. The front 3 of Moore/Brooks/Wilson were brilliant against Croatia and all the talk was that we'd stumbled across our best system and starting xi. There was recognition that James is a very different tyoe of player, not suited to the 10 role, and that having those two 10s was a big reason for good, recent performances. The vast majority were calling for no changes going into Armenia, and that's exactly what Page did. When James did make it off the bench, his impact was very disappointing unfortunately. It's so disingenuous to now say that Page should 100% have started James in the last game when very few were calling for it. I do not agree. The way you start and how a game evolves effects the momentum of a match. I agree that James and Johnson disappointing when they came on but Moore and Brooks were mostly ineffective in the Armenia match - Moore did incredibly well 2-3 times running the flank and getting the ball in the box but James or Johnson would have skinned the fullback and be running on goal in that scenario and one of the two would be quick and attack minded enough to get on the end of the cross - no one was in the box let us not forget! Pace is such an important weapon away from home against a lower ranked team that needs a result and needs to take the initiative in a game Their ineffectiveness is not because of attitude but because they had hardly had a kick of a football for a month at league level. I just do not understand after the lesson we learned in the WC why you play so many presumably unfit players in a team in key matches AGAIN, especially when you had James back to top form and Brennan who had had a good game for Spurs just before. I still disagree with the decision and this kind of thing concerns me about Page's ability to manage effectively - he basically picked the same team that did amazingly against Croatia a month earlier, which for me is lazy and uninformed, rather than tweak things for the fact we were facing totally different opposition, away from home (counter attack time - I wonder which 2 players should be best placed in that type of game) and the fact that Moore and Brooks had not kicked the ball since the Croatia game. Wishful thinking does not work at this level - we tanked again did we not?
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Post by hooky on Dec 10, 2023 15:24:52 GMT
I think it's worth looking at. We seem to be better with 3 at the back. If that's the case, your width comes from your wing backs. DJ is at his most threatening for us out wide plus it allows us to play two 10s. He's got great work rate plus if we played him on the left, (with Neco going right) he'd have Ben Davies as support. He definitely can do it because his attitude and work rate is first class. However, now is not the time for that AND we have such a dearth of firepower that we need him in advanced positions until other do more heavy lifting He is currently scoring goals for fun at Leeds - quality goals too!
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Post by iot on Dec 10, 2023 18:55:46 GMT
This constant rewriting of history is so tiresome. The front 3 of Moore/Brooks/Wilson were brilliant against Croatia and all the talk was that we'd stumbled across our best system and starting xi. There was recognition that James is a very different tyoe of player, not suited to the 10 role, and that having those two 10s was a big reason for good, recent performances. The vast majority were calling for no changes going into Armenia, and that's exactly what Page did. When James did make it off the bench, his impact was very disappointing unfortunately. It's so disingenuous to now say that Page should 100% have started James in the last game when very few were calling for it. I do not agree. The way you start and how a game evolves effects the momentum of a match. I agree that James and Johnson disappointing when they came on but Moore and Brooks were mostly ineffective in the Armenia match - Moore did incredibly well 2-3 times running the flank and getting the ball in the box but James or Johnson would have skinned the fullback and be running on goal in that scenario and one of the two would be quick and attack minded enough to get on the end of the cross - no one was in the box let us not forget! Pace is such an important weapon away from home against a lower ranked team that needs a result and needs to take the initiative in a game Their ineffectiveness is not because of attitude but because they had hardly had a kick of a football for a month at league level. I just do not understand after the lesson we learned in the WC why you play so many presumably unfit players in a team in key matches AGAIN, especially when you had James back to top form and Brennan who had had a good game for Spurs just before. I still disagree with the decision and this kind of thing concerns me about Page's ability to manage effectively - he basically picked the same team that did amazingly against Croatia a month earlier, which for me is lazy and uninformed, rather than tweak things for the fact we were facing totally different opposition, away from home (counter attack time - I wonder which 2 players should be best placed in that type of game) and the fact that Moore and Brooks had not kicked the ball since the Croatia game. Wishful thinking does not work at this level - we tanked again did we not? This isn't a debate about how well those players played in the last double header (they were all equally poor against Armenia if you ask me), it's calling you out for describing it a 'strange decision' in yet another dig at Page, when the vast majority of fans were calling for the exact same thing and there was obviously a strong case for doing so after the Croatia game. It's these constant digs and need to twist things / rewrite history in order to do so is what frustrates me. As for Dan James, I've been one of his biggest supporters on here and almost always had him in my starting xi choice, up until the last games where I preferred sticking with the same personnel we saw against Croatia. It's going to be a difficult choice against Finland with three to pick from Ramsey, Wilson, Brooks, DJ, Johnson, and Moore. No matter who you choose, you'll have an equal number of people preferring other players, and that will inevitably be used as a stick to beat Page with - No Johnson, how can you leave out our best player who's doing fantastically for high-flying Spurs and cost £45m - No Wilson, how can you leave out arguably our best player over the last year - No Moore, how can you leave out our only out and out CF - No DJ, he's ripping it up in the Championship scoring every week - No Ramsey, how can you leave out our best, most creative player in such a huge game If we win, all will be glossed over and previous team selection criticisms ignored. Fail to win and the knives will be out with some disingenuous bullshit. Without checking, I really don't think you were saying these things before the game, so seems like a lot of stuff being said with the benefit of hindsight. Obviously gametime is one consideration, but we went into the Croatia games with that xi having much less gametime. There's also all sorts of other considerations around the system, using two 10s to pack the midfield, and a whole host of other things.
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Post by hooky on Dec 10, 2023 19:02:27 GMT
Think you'll find I did ...........
Nov 18, 2023 at 1:35pm hooky said: Me too. You don't pick the same team as a reward for how they performed in the last match
Brooks was outstanding against Croatia but he has not played since. So Wilson could have played in his position and James out wide. I love Brooks but how many times do we need to learn the lesson in terms of picking players that are playing regularly and playing very well over players that did something in the last match or past?
Hope we don't regret it. It was perhaps the easy decision to make and fits in with the loyalty first approach of Page but not sure its the smartest decision, especially as Dan James is on fire right now. The work rate of James is epic too and we have decided to do without that
You could argue our best two players are on the bench!
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Post by hooky on Dec 10, 2023 19:05:39 GMT
We both have opinions - that is fine and I am no manager and may be wrong. However, Page is getting paid to make calls and when we questions some of them and it goes badly wrong then there is an argument that he is not making a positive difference. The worst thing is I see (from my view) him making the same mistakes
I really hope he delivers a tactical master class in the playoffs and gets us qualified. I will be delighted. Unfortunately based on the evidence 'I see' to date, he is our weakest link
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Post by iot on Dec 10, 2023 19:26:04 GMT
Think you'll find I did ........... Nov 18, 2023 at 1:35pm hooky said: Me too. You don't pick the same team as a reward for how they performed in the last match Brooks was outstanding against Croatia but he has not played since. So Wilson could have played in his position and James out wide. I love Brooks but how many times do we need to learn the lesson in terms of picking players that are playing regularly and playing very well over players that did something in the last match or past? Hope we don't regret it. It was perhaps the easy decision to make and fits in with the loyalty first approach of Page but not sure its the smartest decision, especially as Dan James is on fire right now. The work rate of James is epic too and we have decided to do without that You could argue our best two players are on the bench! And before then, earlier in the thread you said 'We are blessed with decent options in forward positions with Moore, Wilson, Brooks, Ramsey, Brennan & DJ - from which we should pick 3. I would start with the same 3 in Armenia, the only issue being that Dan James is the hardest working of the lot.' Fair enough you changed your mind as the weeks went by. Having James starting may have made a difference, or he may have started as ineffectively as he was when he came on (which I would argue is a better indicator of how things would have panned out) - either way, we'll never know. But as I've said, I have no objection to people debating the merits of starting some of those forward players over others, what I do object to is the cheap jibes and making out like it was a ridiculous call by Page to start Wilson and Brooks against Armenia, when they were brilliant against Croatia (Brooks with hardly any gametime going into that too) and when it was what most fans were calling for.
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Post by hooky on Dec 10, 2023 20:14:14 GMT
Yes because by the time of the game those 2 had played something like 10 mins between them for their clubs! Dan James in particular looked an odd one to me.
I am just a bit concerned about whether we are using the science available properly? Several times to the lazy eye at least - we have picked players for big games through an extended period who you'd assume would be nowhere near match fit and we know you cannot risk that with 2 let alone 3 or 4 players unless you have no choice. So if they are monitored closely and they somehow are exceptionally fit then fair enough. However, what we see are players knackered after 30-45 mins right? The same thing in games when momentum is obviously against us after 10+ mins, why aren't the alarm bells ringing? I see the guy with his laptop at the games close to Page but can someone with knowledge reassure us that they are using the science closely like everyone else is at the elite level? If they are then fair enough but I just want some sign that things are being done professionally with all the tools and science available being used to good effect!
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Post by iot on Dec 10, 2023 20:48:08 GMT
Yes because by the time of the game those 2 had played something like 10 mins between them for their clubs! Dan James in particular looked an odd one to me. I am just a bit concerned about whether we are using the science available properly? Several times to the lazy eye at least - we have picked players for big games through an extended period who you'd assume would be nowhere near match fit and we know you cannot risk that with 2 let alone 3 or 4 players unless you have no choice. So if they are monitored closely and they somehow are exceptionally fit then fair enough. However, what we see are players knackered after 30-45 mins right? The same thing in games when momentum is obviously against us after 10+ mins, why aren't the alarm bells ringing? I see the guy with his laptop at the games close to Page but can someone with knowledge reassure us that they are using the science closely like everyone else is at the elite level? If they are then fair enough but I just want some sign that things are being done professionally with all the tools and science available being used to good effect! 'Yes because by the time of the game those 2 had played something like 10 mins between them for their clubs! Dan James in particular looked an odd one to me.' Nah that's not correct. Wilson had started two and come off the bench in three games (253 mins combined) and Brooks had started one and made another sub appearance. Did you also think it was wrong to start Brooks against Croatia? By the same logic, you must do, and yet he was phenomenal that night. you keep forgetting they're different types of players. We've struggled in midfield for a long time, so we now had a system where we could make up for those deficiencies through having the two 10s on the pitch. It worked perfectly against Croatia. Bringing James in would have created a completely different dynamic. All of this is besides the point for me. It's entirely fair to favour one player over the other, I just think it's wrong to make out that it was a ludicrous decision at the time and use it to have an unnecessary dig. As for the rest of your post, I think you're being paranoid in the extreme if you think the set-up lacks the basic competence of keeping on top of players' fatigue levels.
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Post by hooky on Dec 10, 2023 22:14:15 GMT
Yes because by the time of the game those 2 had played something like 10 mins between them for their clubs! Dan James in particular looked an odd one to me. I am just a bit concerned about whether we are using the science available properly? Several times to the lazy eye at least - we have picked players for big games through an extended period who you'd assume would be nowhere near match fit and we know you cannot risk that with 2 let alone 3 or 4 players unless you have no choice. So if they are monitored closely and they somehow are exceptionally fit then fair enough. However, what we see are players knackered after 30-45 mins right? The same thing in games when momentum is obviously against us after 10+ mins, why aren't the alarm bells ringing? I see the guy with his laptop at the games close to Page but can someone with knowledge reassure us that they are using the science closely like everyone else is at the elite level? If they are then fair enough but I just want some sign that things are being done professionally with all the tools and science available being used to good effect! 'Yes because by the time of the game those 2 had played something like 10 mins between them for their clubs! Dan James in particular looked an odd one to me.' Nah that's not correct. Wilson had started two and come off the bench in three games (253 mins combined) and Brooks had started one and made another sub appearance. Did you also think it was wrong to start Brooks against Croatia? By the same logic, you must do, and yet he was phenomenal that night. you keep forgetting they're different types of players. We've struggled in midfield for a long time, so we now had a system where we could make up for those deficiencies through having the two 10s on the pitch. It worked perfectly against Croatia. Bringing James in would have created a completely different dynamic. All of this is besides the point for me. It's entirely fair to favour one player over the other, I just think it's wrong to make out that it was a ludicrous decision at the time and use it to have an unnecessary dig. As for the rest of your post, I think you're being paranoid in the extreme if you think the set-up lacks the basic competence of keeping on top of players' fatigue levels. My issue was with Moore and Brooks not Wilson - sorry if that was not clear - I thought it was - I noted that Wilson could play where Brooks played right? Brooks was played a couple of times by his club before Croatia (not a great deal though) - and was gone after 55 mins after having a great impact, but he hardly had minutes after nor did Moore. Look lets agree to disagree - I see too many matches where sometimes 4-5 players have not been match fit - that is half a team almost! I know we don't have alternatives for all of them but there was a clear alternative for 2 of the front players and I stand by my point that we did not have enough energy again (or pace which seemed required for that game) starting that Armenia game. Ward, Neco, Roberts, Mepham, James, Brooks and Moore were hardly getting minutes with their clubs. Out of those 7 - we had decent options in 2 of the forward positions and this resonated with what happened in the WC debacle - both James and Johnson were getting game time. I believe 100% it was the wrong decision - we ended up with 2 points when we needed 6pts did we not, but Armenia (again) was the match that really, really screwed us! I do not mind us failing but I do want us to learn from what I see as obvious mistakes. Anyway I appreciate your viewpoint and you come back with evidence to back up your comments, but I just disagree with you on this one.
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Post by reyrey on Dec 11, 2023 8:10:45 GMT
Not a wing back at all imo Can you expand on that? He has a skill set very suited to a wing-back. Why do you think he's not suited at all? I know he doesn't have a history of playing there, but that's not to say he doesn't fit the mould. Not one of his mangers have played him there and they see him train everyday. I also feel after watching him regularly that while he can and does work back, he hasn’t got any natural defence qualities and also lacks any aerial ability which would be a massive help when playing wing back. his strength is fronting up a full back and running at them with pace. his best position is getting him as far wide and forward as possible so he can use his pace to hurt teams like he is doing for Leeds this season.
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Post by allezlesrouges on Dec 11, 2023 10:24:28 GMT
I would like to see him tried at wing-back in the Nations League. His skill set is suited to it. Just look at Pedro Porro at Spurs, he's not even a wing-back he's a full back and he gets so far forward, he essentially plays as a second winger. Not saying we're as good as Spurs, but with the stability of a back 3 behind us we could really benefit in an attacking sense from having James on the pitch and combining with the likes of Brooks. I feel our right hand side has been hampered going forwards without Bale and with Roberts drop off in form for a while now
This could be a potential fix
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Post by zserty on Dec 11, 2023 19:17:37 GMT
I would like to see him tried at wing-back in the Nations League. His skill set is suited to it. Just look at Pedro Porro at Spurs, he's not even a wing-back he's a full back and he gets so far forward, he essentially plays as a second winger. Not saying we're as good as Spurs, but with the stability of a back 3 behind us we could really benefit in an attacking sense from having James on the pitch and combining with the likes of Brooks. I feel our right hand side has been hampered going forwards without Bale and with Roberts drop off in form for a while now This could be a potential fix Im not so sure it'd work to our benefit, having one winger at wingback only tends to work when countered with a more defensive minded player on the other flank. Otherwise it could leave us having our left and right sided centre halves drawn out to cover oposing wingers. Not so bad for Davies, but the other side would be a worry.
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Post by allezlesrouges on Dec 12, 2023 14:34:22 GMT
I would like to see him tried at wing-back in the Nations League. His skill set is suited to it. Just look at Pedro Porro at Spurs, he's not even a wing-back he's a full back and he gets so far forward, he essentially plays as a second winger. Not saying we're as good as Spurs, but with the stability of a back 3 behind us we could really benefit in an attacking sense from having James on the pitch and combining with the likes of Brooks. I feel our right hand side has been hampered going forwards without Bale and with Roberts drop off in form for a while now This could be a potential fix Im not so sure it'd work to our benefit, having one winger at wingback only tends to work when countered with a more defensive minded player on the other flank. Otherwise it could leave us having our left and right sided centre halves drawn out to cover oposing wingers. Not so bad for Davies, but the other side would be a worry. It's a fair point, but they're both talented players who have played at a high enough level to be able to position themselves well and see-saw well enough. There have been plenty of occasions where we have created chances fullback-to-fullback though from my memory and that hasn't left us exposed, it's just a case of doing it well. I see no inherent reason that James couldn't is all I'm trying to say But that's why I'd say test it in the NL rather than one of the upcoming important games
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Post by jbt95 on Dec 12, 2023 15:51:13 GMT
Im not so sure it'd work to our benefit, having one winger at wingback only tends to work when countered with a more defensive minded player on the other flank. Otherwise it could leave us having our left and right sided centre halves drawn out to cover oposing wingers. Not so bad for Davies, but the other side would be a worry. It's a fair point, but they're both talented players who have played at a high enough level to be able to position themselves well and see-saw well enough. There have been plenty of occasions where we have created chances fullback-to-fullback though from my memory and that hasn't left us exposed, it's just a case of doing it well. I see no inherent reason that James couldn't is all I'm trying to say But that's why I'd say test it in the NL rather than one of the upcoming important games The Nations League is very important. If we win promotion, that may see us get a play-off for the World Cup.
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Post by surge on Dec 12, 2023 22:01:43 GMT
Came off after 75 mins today but not the best game for any Leeds player.
Gnonto aside, Leeds don't have any players to come off the bench and make a difference. They're a team relegated from top tier with no depth. Good news for us that want to see our lads get minutes and bad news for those who want them promoted!
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