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Post by bobbyghoul on Dec 1, 2020 21:24:12 GMT
Has played decently outside of the assist too. Certainly much improved.
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Post by dai on Dec 1, 2020 21:34:25 GMT
Great to hear, that assist will do his confidence a world of good. (and keep the knobs at bay)
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Post by iot on Dec 1, 2020 21:58:07 GMT
Played very well, particularly in the second half where he showed really good skill! Delighted for him and he needed that!
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Post by quetzal on Dec 6, 2020 18:40:15 GMT
Turn off twitter
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Post by manulike on Dec 6, 2020 19:58:15 GMT
Didn't see this latest yellow ... and far be it for me to give you my 2p worth ...
... But if you are seeking inner calm and transcendental tranquillity ...
Thomas Lawrence isn't the man to ask tips from ;-)
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Post by iot on Dec 6, 2020 20:12:58 GMT
He'll be pleased with that half, he's been slightly caught out a couple of times but solid on the whole. TAA's on the bench, so presumably will come back in after this game, but if Neco can see this one out with another assured half he will have regained a lot of trust from Klopp
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Post by foxmulder on Dec 7, 2020 13:26:38 GMT
Once upon a time, the internet used to be a place where just the nerds would hang out. They'd talk about movies and tv shows, give themselves funny handles and lived their lives like that. The outside world would mock them. But they didn't care. Now everyone on the planet has the internet. They literally have it in their pockets. So every person that knows cock-all about football and doesn't know how to address people with respect, can simply go on twitter and spout shit. So honestly, don't worry about twitter. There's nothing to gain! |
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Post by allezlesrouges on Dec 7, 2020 16:22:43 GMT
Already 2 games away from equalling last seasons total no. of games for Liverpool, and it’s not even the new year yet
Most Premier League players get caught out at some point during a game, except for the top top players. So it doesn’t bother me to hear that he’s made a couple of mistakes. He’s started the game against a very good Wolves team, up against a few in form wingers & they came away with a clean sheet. That tells me all I need to know really
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Post by robin1864 on Dec 10, 2020 2:01:21 GMT
I see Neco didn't play against Midgetland despite Klopp using 5 subs. Klopp not trust our kid or something?   |
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Post by bobbyghoul on Dec 10, 2020 23:23:36 GMT
I see Neco didn't play against Midgetland despite Klopp using 5 subs. Klopp not trust our kid or something? Ha, Klopp was playing TAA back into match fitness and TAA also captained the side so would have been harsh to sub him. I'm sure Neco will get other opportunities, hopefully Liverpool will have a good couple of cup runs this season. |
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Post by allezlesrouges on Dec 13, 2020 18:01:46 GMT
Trent having a poor game - Neco on to replace him for the last 25 mins. Liverpool a goal down
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Post by gimli on Dec 17, 2020 11:14:39 GMT
I'd like to see Neco tried in midfield. I'm not sure he has the pace or trickery to be a winger, but I could see him develop into a Rambo-esque midfielder if given a chance in that position.
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Post by allezlesrouges on Dec 17, 2020 12:02:40 GMT
I'd like to see Neco tried in midfield. I'm not sure he has the pace or trickery to be a winger, but I could see him develop into a Rambo-esque midfielder if given a chance in that position. Very rare that a transition like this happens and can’t see it myself. There’s a huge difference between the game being played in front of you and being played behind you. Hence why Klopp will never play TAA in midfield like so many suggest. He’s great when he has his head up and time to pick a pass, but can’t see him being able to take the ball on the half turn in the middle of the park and having the decision making of an elite-level centre mid. Same goes for Neco I’m afraid |
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Post by gimli on Dec 17, 2020 12:27:30 GMT
I'd like to see Neco tried in midfield. I'm not sure he has the pace or trickery to be a winger, but I could see him develop into a Rambo-esque midfielder if given a chance in that position. Very rare that a transition like this happens and can’t see it myself. There’s a huge difference between the game being played in front of you and being played behind you. Hence why Klopp will never play TAA in midfield like so many suggest. He’s great when he has his head up and time to pick a pass, but can’t see him being able to take the ball on the half turn in the middle of the park and having the decision making of an elite-level centre mid. Same goes for Neco I’m afraid I was talking about Neco btw, not Roberts. And I think Neco's skillset is better suited to midfield than to fullback to be honest. He doesn't seem to be fast enough to be a modern fullback, and since defending isn't his strong suit, he'd need pace to make up for that if he was to be a top quality fullback. I'm sure I read that he played midfield/number 10 during his development too, and that it's only relatively recently that he's been moved to fullback. Regarding decision making, that's something that comes with time and experience anyway. If we're being totally honest, he'll probably never get the chance to fully break through at Liverpool. He'll always be second fiddle to TAA at rightback, and I can't see him getting a chance anywhere else in their team. But I think, when he inevitably moves to a mid-table/bottom half club, it'd be good to see him tried out in the middle of the pitch. |
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Post by allezlesrouges on Dec 17, 2020 14:04:28 GMT
Very rare that a transition like this happens and can’t see it myself. There’s a huge difference between the game being played in front of you and being played behind you. Hence why Klopp will never play TAA in midfield like so many suggest. He’s great when he has his head up and time to pick a pass, but can’t see him being able to take the ball on the half turn in the middle of the park and having the decision making of an elite-level centre mid. Same goes for Neco I’m afraid I was talking about Neco btw, not Roberts. And I think Neco's skillset is better suited to midfield than to fullback to be honest. He doesn't seem to be fast enough to be a modern fullback, and since defending isn't his strong suit, he'd need pace to make up for that if he was to be a top quality fullback. I'm sure I read that he played midfield/number 10 during his development too, and that it's only relatively recently that he's been moved to fullback. Regarding decision making, that's something that comes with time and experience anyway. If we're being totally honest, he'll probably never get the chance to fully break through at Liverpool. He'll always be second fiddle to TAA at rightback, and I can't see him getting a chance anywhere else in their team. But I think, when he inevitably moves to a mid-table/bottom half club, it'd be good to see him tried out in the middle of the pitch. Yeah I know that’s why I said same goes for Neco Pace isn’t essential to be a good modern fullback. Trent isn’t rapid, but he’s considered world class. Usually to compensate for pace you have to have good positional play, which Trent has, so does someone like Joshua Kimmich, or Dani Carvajal. Neco can work on this, as well as other aspects of defending to become a capable defensive fullback in the future. I’d also wager that compared to the average 19 year old right back Neco is comparatively a better defender. It’s reasonable to expect his defensive positional play to improve as full back is one of the easier positions to learn positional play, midfield on the other hand is the hardest To be an elite level central midfielder your positioning has to be spot on for 90 mins or else your team will struggle to control the game. It’s true he used to be a no.10 but it’s one thing playing that position in your youth and playing it at elite professional level. It’s likely that the Liverpool youth saw that he was better when switched to being an attacking full back than play as a 10 Decision making as a midfielder in possession is also much harder as you need to be able to play in a 360 degree view. As a full back you never play the ball beyond your right side so the game is simplified playing at 180 degrees. Usually this means you have 1 or 2 choices to play forward and an easy choice to play a simple back pass. In the middle of the park you need the special awareness to know where the space is, whether to dribble, pass, which angle etc... just gets a lot more complicated. I can’t personally see Neco doing it as I haven’t seen evidence that he can play 360 degrees like that. Especially with his back to goal. It’s not 8mpossible, up very few successfully make that transition; Kimmich, Roberto Carlos, Zanetti, Lahm, Milner some of the few I can think of that can do both - none of which particularly attacking either |
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Post by gimli on Dec 17, 2020 15:53:15 GMT
I was talking about Neco btw, not Roberts. And I think Neco's skillset is better suited to midfield than to fullback to be honest. He doesn't seem to be fast enough to be a modern fullback, and since defending isn't his strong suit, he'd need pace to make up for that if he was to be a top quality fullback. I'm sure I read that he played midfield/number 10 during his development too, and that it's only relatively recently that he's been moved to fullback. Regarding decision making, that's something that comes with time and experience anyway. If we're being totally honest, he'll probably never get the chance to fully break through at Liverpool. He'll always be second fiddle to TAA at rightback, and I can't see him getting a chance anywhere else in their team. But I think, when he inevitably moves to a mid-table/bottom half club, it'd be good to see him tried out in the middle of the pitch. Yeah I know that’s why I said same goes for Neco Pace isn’t essential to be a good modern fullback. Trent isn’t rapid, but he’s considered world class. Usually to compensate for pace you have to have good positional play, which Trent has, so does someone like Joshua Kimmich, or Dani Carvajal. Neco can work on this, as well as other aspects of defending to become a capable defensive fullback in the future. I’d also wager that compared to the average 19 year old right back Neco is comparatively a better defender. It’s reasonable to expect his defensive positional play to improve as full back is one of the easier positions to learn positional play, midfield on the other hand is the hardest To be an elite level central midfielder your positioning has to be spot on for 90 mins or else your team will struggle to control the game. It’s true he used to be a no.10 but it’s one thing playing that position in your youth and playing it at elite professional level. It’s likely that the Liverpool youth saw that he was better when switched to being an attacking full back than play as a 10 Decision making as a midfielder in possession is also much harder as you need to be able to play in a 360 degree view. As a full back you never play the ball beyond your right side so the game is simplified playing at 180 degrees. Usually this means you have 1 or 2 choices to play forward and an easy choice to play a simple back pass. In the middle of the park you need the special awareness to know where the space is, whether to dribble, pass, which angle etc... just gets a lot more complicated. I can’t personally see Neco doing it as I haven’t seen evidence that he can play 360 degrees like that. Especially with his back to goal. It’s not 8mpossible, up very few successfully make that transition; Kimmich, Roberto Carlos, Zanetti, Lahm, Milner some of the few I can think of that can do both - none of which particularly attacking either Maybe you're right, and fair enough you've put a lot more thought into your reply than I have, but I think young players are often pigeonholed as whatever position they get their first chance in, whereas behind the scenes in the academy their "position" is often more fluid. They usually play numerous positions, and the most talented ones will get promoted to the first team squad wherever the vacancy is, regardless of position (within reason). It's what happened with TAA, who was a midfielder in the academy, but the first opening in the Liverpool line up was at RB, so that's where he got his chance. It also seems a trend that youth players who aren't necessarily fullbacks get their first chance in that position (probably because it's seen as less of a risk because they only have to worry about the 180 degrees as you said). TAA and Kimmich are the obvious recent examples, but off the top of my head there's also Zinchenko who plays at left back for Man City, but really he's an attacking midfielder and plays there for Ukraine, and going back further David Alaba broke through as a left back for Bayern but was really a central midfielder and plays there for Austria (or at least he used to - he might play CB now?). Even Ramsey got a lot of his early minutes at Cardiff City playing right back. Another thing to consider is that, coming through one of the best academies in the world at Liverpool, Neco might not be considered good enough to play centre mid relative to their other youth players, but he would be for us. Had he come through Cardiff or Swansea's academy for example, I'm sure he'd be playing further up the pitch. Since Neco's one of our most talented prospects, it would seem a waste to play him at RB when we already have a good one in Roberts. We're lacking somewhat in midfield and there's no one coming through in the Ramsey mold, so I reckon it'd be worth trying Neco there while he's young and maleable before he "sets" as a full back. I have no idea if he'd actually be any good as a midfielder, but he seems talented and confident enough on the ball to give it a try. |
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Post by allezlesrouges on Dec 17, 2020 20:48:54 GMT
Yeah I know that’s why I said same goes for Neco Pace isn’t essential to be a good modern fullback. Trent isn’t rapid, but he’s considered world class. Usually to compensate for pace you have to have good positional play, which Trent has, so does someone like Joshua Kimmich, or Dani Carvajal. Neco can work on this, as well as other aspects of defending to become a capable defensive fullback in the future. I’d also wager that compared to the average 19 year old right back Neco is comparatively a better defender. It’s reasonable to expect his defensive positional play to improve as full back is one of the easier positions to learn positional play, midfield on the other hand is the hardest To be an elite level central midfielder your positioning has to be spot on for 90 mins or else your team will struggle to control the game. It’s true he used to be a no.10 but it’s one thing playing that position in your youth and playing it at elite professional level. It’s likely that the Liverpool youth saw that he was better when switched to being an attacking full back than play as a 10 Decision making as a midfielder in possession is also much harder as you need to be able to play in a 360 degree view. As a full back you never play the ball beyond your right side so the game is simplified playing at 180 degrees. Usually this means you have 1 or 2 choices to play forward and an easy choice to play a simple back pass. In the middle of the park you need the special awareness to know where the space is, whether to dribble, pass, which angle etc... just gets a lot more complicated. I can’t personally see Neco doing it as I haven’t seen evidence that he can play 360 degrees like that. Especially with his back to goal. It’s not 8mpossible, up very few successfully make that transition; Kimmich, Roberto Carlos, Zanetti, Lahm, Milner some of the few I can think of that can do both - none of which particularly attacking either Maybe you're right, and fair enough you've put a lot more thought into your reply than I have, but I think young players are often pigeonholed as whatever position they get their first chance in, whereas behind the scenes in the academy their "position" is often more fluid. They usually play numerous positions, and the most talented ones will get promoted to the first team squad wherever the vacancy is, regardless of position (within reason). It's what happened with TAA, who was a midfielder in the academy, but the first opening in the Liverpool line up was at RB, so that's where he got his chance. It also seems a trend that youth players who aren't necessarily fullbacks get their first chance in that position (probably because it's seen as less of a risk because they only have to worry about the 180 degrees as you said). TAA and Kimmich are the obvious recent examples, but off the top of my head there's also Zinchenko who plays at left back for Man City, but really he's an attacking midfielder and plays there for Ukraine, and going back further David Alaba broke through as a left back for Bayern but was really a central midfielder and plays there for Austria (or at least he used to - he might play CB now?). Even Ramsey got a lot of his early minutes at Cardiff City playing right back. Another thing to consider is that, coming through one of the best academies in the world at Liverpool, Neco might not be considered good enough to play centre mid relative to their other youth players, but he would be for us. Had he come through Cardiff or Swansea's academy for example, I'm sure he'd be playing further up the pitch. Since Neco's one of our most talented prospects, it would seem a waste to play him at RB when we already have a good one in Roberts. We're lacking somewhat in midfield and there's no one coming through in the Ramsey mold, so I reckon it'd be worth trying Neco there while he's young and maleable before he "sets" as a full back. I have no idea if he'd actually be any good as a midfielder, but he seems talented and confident enough on the ball to give it a try. That is a good point, and I can see what you're saying Surprised you think we don't have anyone coming through in the Ramsey mould though. Tyler Roberts/Brennan Johnson are attacking 10s, with Brennan coming deeper recently. You also have the likes of Burton, and possibly Chem Cambell as well - I think we will have enough in that position over the next 5 years |
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Post by gimli on Dec 18, 2020 11:49:42 GMT
That is a good point, and I can see what you're saying Surprised you think we don't have anyone coming through in the Ramsey mould though. Tyler Roberts/Brennan Johnson are attacking 10s, with Brennan coming deeper recently. You also have the likes of Burton, and possibly Chem Cambell as well - I think we will have enough in that position over the next 5 years Though he often plays at 10 for us I still hesitate to call Rambo an actual #10. I still think of him as more of a centre mid that gets forward a lot like a #8, so I don't really consider any of the players you listed as potential Ramsey heirs. Well definitely not Tyler Roberts who's more of a forward, nor Robbie Burton who's a sitting midfielder from what I gather. I didn't realise that Brennan Johnson had been playing deeper though, so maybe he can fill the void. I know next to nothing about Chem Campbell to be honest, but he doesn't seem to be anywhere near the first team at the moment so don't think we can count on him. |
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Post by erasedcitizen on Dec 18, 2020 13:04:03 GMT
Spot on posts there gimli. Was just about to post my thoughts but I looked back and saw you had said exactly what I had in mind, probably in a better way than I would have put across. |
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Post by erasedcitizen on Dec 18, 2020 13:08:27 GMT
I could see Neco being utilised as a winger for us in future. He has already performed there for us and talent-wise he is probably ahead of most players in that position, albeit behind Bale, Brooks and James. That's not to say he can't fight for one of those positions however as it would be criminal to leave either him or Roberts out.
Another way of looking at it is that over the course of two competitive matches in one window, we could have the advantage of fielding one player in one match and one in the other. This means we could have a fresh, top quality right back option for both matches. I know Roberts is a God of fitness but even the most fit players can struggle to play 180 minutes at the top of their game in such a short period. This could be especially important come play-off season, where extra-time can be chucked into the mix.
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Post by iot on Dec 18, 2020 13:12:46 GMT
My only comment would be that I can't see how it would be feasible for us to try and implement such a drastic change in his position, it would have to be initiated by his club. We usually only get him for a few days at a time, I can't see how we could try and evolve him into a high quality CM in that sort of time. We'll get more time as a squad during the euros, but I suspect that time together will focus on other priorities.
I have no idea whether he can play as a CM and there are far too many unknowns to say with any confidence that he's suited to the position. As far as I'm concerned, it's not something that's worth entertaining unless he's tested in that position at club level.
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Post by allezlesrouges on Dec 18, 2020 13:31:21 GMT
That is a good point, and I can see what you're saying Surprised you think we don't have anyone coming through in the Ramsey mould though. Tyler Roberts/Brennan Johnson are attacking 10s, with Brennan coming deeper recently. You also have the likes of Burton, and possibly Chem Cambell as well - I think we will have enough in that position over the next 5 years Though he often plays at 10 for us I still hesitate to call Rambo an actual #10. I still think of him as more of a centre mid that gets forward a lot like a #8, so I don't really consider any of the players you listed as potential Ramsey heirs. Well definitely not Tyler Roberts who's more of a forward, nor Robbie Burton who's a sitting midfielder from what I gather. I didn't realise that Brennan Johnson had been playing deeper though, so maybe he can fill the void. I know next to nothing about Chem Campbell to be honest, but he doesn't seem to be anywhere near the first team at the moment so don't think we can count on him. I think you can call Rambo's best positions either a defensive 10 or an offensive 8. He is a really unique player with his qualities though and I don't think we'd ever find a direct replacement like for like, even Arsenal are struggling to and they can actually buy players. Either way Ramsey plays as a 10 for us, and mostly as a 10 for Juve. So in terms of a replacement whilst I concede Roberts, Brooks et al are more conventional 10s, they are still the replacements because of the system we play Even someone like Burton I'd say is closer to being a Ramsey than Neco could be. Just my opinion on it |
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Post by erasedcitizen on Dec 18, 2020 14:45:15 GMT
I thought Burton played a bit deeper than a Ramsey role. Neco is certainly more attacking in my view.
I agree that we'll likely not find a Ramsey replacement though. I've never seen us with a player anything like him.
While some may argue the toss over Allen and Bale being our most important players in recent years, I'd argue our best performances have come when Ramsey has been on top form. Russia, Belgium, Ireland, Hungary etc.
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Post by erasedcitizen on Dec 18, 2020 14:50:51 GMT
My only comment would be that I can't see how it would be feasible for us to try and implement such a drastic change in his position, it would have to be initiated by his club. We usually only get him for a few days at a time, I can't see how we could try and evolve him into a high quality CM in that sort of time. We'll get more time as a squad during the euros, but I suspect that time together will focus on other priorities. I have no idea whether he can play as a CM and there are far too many unknowns to say with any confidence that he's suited to the position. As far as I'm concerned, it's not something that's worth entertaining unless he's tested in that position at club level. That's a fair comment. It's down to the club to implement him there and while he's at Liverpool he isn't getting a sniff in that role. Our best hope with Neco at Liverpool is that they move Trent into the midfield at some point and start Neco in the right back role. |
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Post by erasedcitizen on Jan 4, 2021 21:44:13 GMT
Trent Alexander-Arnold is having a torrid time at the moment. Astonished that Klopp has looked to Milner to win the game for him after taking Trent off rather than Neco.
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Post by iot on Jan 4, 2021 22:04:06 GMT
Trent Alexander-Arnold is having a torrid time at the moment. Astonished that Klopp has looked to Milner to win the game for him after taking Trent off rather than Neco. I think that's significant. They're searching for a goal and bring on a 35 year old midfielder to play right back instead of neco. Nothing too concerning, but just shows that it's way too early to get too carried away with the level neco's likely to reach. Klopp clearly rates him highly, but doesn't trust him when it matters at this stage. I don't think we can say he's liverpool's 2nd choice right back at this point, he only got his chance earlier in the season when all of TAA, Milner and Gomez were out, and even then he was brought off early in a couple of games. I would be surprised if he doesn't end up a premier league player, but he seems to be a fairly long way off having a real breakthrough season for Liverpool. |
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Post by fiveattheback on Jan 5, 2021 12:37:22 GMT
Trent doing his very best to give Neco a run in the team, bless him, he's been poor all season and was abysmal last night
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Post by allezlesrouges on Jan 5, 2021 14:26:31 GMT
And Neco is only 1 appearance away from playing the same number of games as he did last season. He might not be a starter for Liverpool but I think he's still in the right place.
Last year he played in 11 senior games. This season he's on track to double the amount of games he played for Liverpool
If you throw in games for us on top of that, he's played 6 so far and will probably play at least half of our remaining fixtures in 20-21. Let's say he plays 4 more times for us this season. That means he'll have played roughly 30 senior games this season, 3x more than last year
Whilst I know some people are eager for him to be firmly Klopp's no.2 RB, I think it's important to remember that he's trebling his games this year, and that's key to his development. My hope for him would be that by next season he makes less mistakes and really transitions into being a true senior. If that means for the time being Milner gets put on ahead of him in certain scenarios where Klopp thinks he needs experience, then so be it
Neco is getting there, we just need to be patient and let him grow. Plus we don't want him to burn out like TAA clearly is at the moment!
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Post by fiveattheback on Jan 8, 2021 19:46:50 GMT
Starts tonight
Could a good performance put him in the frame for a league spot? Alexander-Arnold has been poor this year
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Post by allezlesrouges on Jan 8, 2021 22:23:57 GMT
Seen a few comments saying he did well tonight, even favourable comparisons against TAA saying he's done himself no harm
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