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Post by corky on Aug 9, 2016 12:53:38 GMT
Thanks to our friends at the Football Supporters Europe (FSE) We now believe that the allocation of away tickets for World cup qualifying games is worked out like this. FIFA Safety Regulation determines no standard percentage but leaves it up to the organising committee of each event to determine the ticket allocations. Hence, since the continental football federations are formally in charge of World Cup Qualifiers for FIFA, the UEFA 5% away ticket rule applies for all WC Qualifiers taking place between European teams. The away allocation can only be increased, if the FAs of the two national teams agree to do so. This means we are likely to only get 5% of tickets for games away unless the FAW can do a deal to increase that number ...meaning we could only be allocated 2,500 for Austria and a similar amount for Ireland, please bear this in mind before you book flights. Although exact figures are not known to us yet I think its important that you know the regulations... Moldova, Georgia and Serbia will be much less so bear that in mind.
It is possible to get more than 5% but not less unless there are severe police and security issues.
The venues of the matches shall be fixed by the host association concerned and the matches may only be played in stadiums that have been inspected and approved by the confederation. The opponents and the FIFA general secretariat shall be notified by the host association at least three months before the match in question is due to be played. In principle, the venue is to be located at a maximum distance of 150km, which shall not exceed a maximum two-hour drive, from the nearest international airport. The host association shall inform its opponents of the kick-off time at least 60 days before the match in question is due to be played. If the host association requests a change, the written approval of the visiting team must be obtained by 30 days before the match at the latest. After this deadline, only FIFA may approve a late change of kick-off time based on well-founded and documented reasons for up to seven days prior to the match
There are now over 23,500 members and over 9,600 tournament tickets sold, when stage four opens there is expected to be a big demand
We have set up a group for North Wales fans if you would be interested in joining please contact me Ppaul69@aol.com
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Post by sleepy on Aug 9, 2016 12:59:28 GMT
Great thanks Paul. Let's hope the FAW use the loyalty scheme throughout the campaign.
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Post by bringbackelmo on Aug 9, 2016 15:11:39 GMT
I know this comes up time and time again but if you could do anything to push the FAW on releasing details of allocations it would be hugely helpful. A lot of the time we are completely in the dark so any information helps.
Also thanks for clarifying on the 5%. Are Georgia not playing their games at the Dinamo stadium? That holds over 50k so we would get a decent allocation there too I would think?
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Post by cymruramdcfc on Aug 9, 2016 15:16:39 GMT
Thanks corky,
On a down side, 2500 tickets fir austria,
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Post by corky on Aug 9, 2016 17:18:30 GMT
I know this comes up time and time again but if you could do anything to push the FAW on releasing details of allocations it would be hugely helpful. A lot of the time we are completely in the dark so any information helps. Also thanks for clarifying on the 5%. Are Georgia not playing their games at the Dinamo stadium? That holds over 50k so we would get a decent allocation there too I would think? We do try but it always depends on the number of tickets we have, but we have asked for a survey e mail to be sent out again to see how many members may attend Austria and Ireland
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Post by sleepy on Aug 9, 2016 17:25:50 GMT
I know this comes up time and time again but if you could do anything to push the FAW on releasing details of allocations it would be hugely helpful. A lot of the time we are completely in the dark so any information helps. Also thanks for clarifying on the 5%. Are Georgia not playing their games at the Dinamo stadium? That holds over 50k so we would get a decent allocation there too I would think? We do try but it always depends on the number of tickets we have, but we have asked for a survey e mail to be sent out again to see how many members may attend Austria and Ireland Your position in the queue really should not be dependant on the number of tickets though should it. E.g. I'd expect to be 736th in line whether there are 500 tickets, 1500 or 10000. Thanks for all your work as always Corky.
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worsy
the carls
Posts: 99
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Post by worsy on Aug 9, 2016 17:57:26 GMT
The only problem I can see going forward is people buying tickets just for points and not using them. Will make it a closed shop imo.
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Post by Gary Williams on Aug 9, 2016 18:02:58 GMT
We do try but it always depends on the number of tickets we have, but we have asked for a survey e mail to be sent out again to see how many members may attend Austria and Ireland Your position in the queue really should not be dependant on the number of tickets though should it. E.g. I'd expect to be 736th in line whether there are 500 tickets, 1500 or 10000. Thanks for all your work as always Corky. thats true but its about there management of administration for example austria away you have window open for everyone to apply and then it takes lot of admin to sort everyone in order of loyalty and remember theyres the confusion of people with different loyalty on same application other fas have theyre own back office facilities to do this but like england have big ticketing department as they sell out wembley every game and have membership scheme thats generates a lot of money at 75 pound a pop as people join just to get to home games we do not have that luxury we have reasonable priced membership scheme and be under no illusion if we suddenly start performing badly we will not sell out cardiff city stadium in the future so what they generally do is say theyre 2500 tickets they do a window for the top 2000 members as per loyalty as they can just take money and issue these and then second window say for next 650 and again highly likely just issue these then they get to third window they say next 750 members know this group may not all get ticket so its only 750 they have to sort through and not 5000 because some will realize they will not a ticket like bosnia away last year and not bother applying etc
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Post by Gary Williams on Aug 9, 2016 18:07:08 GMT
The only problem I can see going forward is people buying tickets just for points and not using them. Will make it a closed shop imo. There are ways to stop this happening get data from other FA about who used theyre tickets and also as england do you can ramdonaly select say 500 fans every game who have to collect ticket with id and should anyone be found to not be using or collecting or wrong person collecting you can sanction them against getting tickets in the future
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Post by sleepy on Aug 9, 2016 18:14:11 GMT
Your position in the queue really should not be dependant on the number of tickets though should it. E.g. I'd expect to be 736th in line whether there are 500 tickets, 1500 or 10000. Thanks for all your work as always Corky. they do a window for the top 2000 members as per loyalty So somehow they know the top 2000? Care to share how with the rest of us? As said before, it doesn't take a huge team of people to decide on your criteria and make it public.
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Post by manulike on Aug 9, 2016 18:15:29 GMT
Are Georgia not playing their games at the Dinamo stadium? That holds over 50k so we would get a decent allocation there too I would think? Yes. Georgia have announced that both their home games this year (Austrai and even the game v Moldova) will be at the 54k Dynamo stadium. Worsy, I can't imagine too many people actually going to Russia even if we do qualify - so i feel that your fear of people trying to accumulate loyalty points is misplaced. This soon after the Euros, I'd be quite surprised if there will actually be more than 1,500 wanting to go to Austria. Maybe i am wrong, but can only imagine a ticket issue for our Moldova and Ireland games. As always, many thanks Paul, for your great work - much appreciated!
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Post by Gary Williams on Aug 9, 2016 18:39:28 GMT
they do a window for the top 2000 members as per loyalty So somehow they know the top 2000? Care to share how with the rest of us? As said before, it doesn't take a huge team of people to decide on your criteria and make it public. From theyre records of tournament ticket and away ticket purchases how else example should say moldova have exactly same away allocation we recieved for bosnia anyone who went to bosnia last year and purchase a tournament tickets this year and goes to every away before fixture theoretically if they all apply they would all get a ticket and no one else would but its not as straight forward as that as some may not apply some may not have gone to bosnia but went everywhere else and has enough loyalty but didnt go it would be easier if everyone had points total on eticketing and they could just say if you have ex points more you can apply in this window reason they dont say criteria is they dont know allocation and will not until other FA tells them its a mimimum of 5 percent they offer more and thats why they do email thing to try and see if they should request more as FAs who regluarly sell out to theyre own fans will only give us extra if we agree that we can sell them and pay for them regardless whether they do or not and our FA is not going to want to hand over cash for nothing theyre are trying to give as many as chance as possible to go with minimal risk to theyre finances they could just say they take 5 percent announce criteria months before and say bad luck if you dont get but they dont they try and secure enough tickets for demand not always successful as some FAs will only give 5 percent
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Post by sleepy on Aug 9, 2016 18:58:40 GMT
So somehow they know the top 2000? Care to share how with the rest of us? As said before, it doesn't take a huge team of people to decide on your criteria and make it public. From theyre records of tournament ticket and away ticket purchases how else example should say moldova have exactly same away allocation we recieved for bosnia anyone who went to bosnia last year and purchase a tournament tickets this year and goes to every away before fixture theoretically if they all apply they would all get a ticket and no one else would but its not as straight forward as that as some may not apply some may not have gone to bosnia but went everywhere else and has enough loyalty but didnt go it would be easier if everyone had points total on eticketing and they could just say if you have ex points more you can apply in this window reason they dont say criteria is they dont know allocation and will not until other FA tells them its a mimimum of 5 percent they offer more and thats why they do email thing to try and see if they should request more as FAs who regluarly sell out to theyre own fans will only give us extra if we agree that we can sell them and pay for them regardless whether they do or not and our FA is not going to want to hand over cash for nothing theyre are trying to give as many as chance as possible to go with minimal risk to theyre finances they could just say they take 5 percent announce criteria months before and say bad luck if you dont get but they dont they try and secure enough tickets for demand not always successful as some FAs will only give 5 percent Ok well thanks for your reply. In most areas I can't commend the FAW enough but I think they could quite easily do a better job on their ticketing allocations. Would be happy to help out (for free). Guess we'll have to disagree on this area.
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Post by Gary Williams on Aug 9, 2016 19:11:06 GMT
From theyre records of tournament ticket and away ticket purchases how else example should say moldova have exactly same away allocation we recieved for bosnia anyone who went to bosnia last year and purchase a tournament tickets this year and goes to every away before fixture theoretically if they all apply they would all get a ticket and no one else would but its not as straight forward as that as some may not apply some may not have gone to bosnia but went everywhere else and has enough loyalty but didnt go it would be easier if everyone had points total on eticketing and they could just say if you have ex points more you can apply in this window reason they dont say criteria is they dont know allocation and will not until other FA tells them its a mimimum of 5 percent they offer more and thats why they do email thing to try and see if they should request more as FAs who regluarly sell out to theyre own fans will only give us extra if we agree that we can sell them and pay for them regardless whether they do or not and our FA is not going to want to hand over cash for nothing theyre are trying to give as many as chance as possible to go with minimal risk to theyre finances they could just say they take 5 percent announce criteria months before and say bad luck if you dont get but they dont they try and secure enough tickets for demand not always successful as some FAs will only give 5 percent Ok well thanks for your reply. In most areas I can't commend the FAW enough but I think they could quite easily do a better job on their ticketing allocations. Would be happy to help out (for free). Guess we'll have to disagree on this area. Sleepy i think we can agree on them being able to do better healthy debate is good just cant let stand when people think that they just do these things to piss people off and that there isnt reasoning might not like the reasoning but there is always a reason and normally falls down to money
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Post by ontheroadagain on Aug 9, 2016 19:13:34 GMT
Many thanks Corky for the update.
Will the FSF be pushing the FAW to finalise the criteria for getting away tickets after consultation with the FSF. Also if as suggested earlier in the thread a list is produced so everyone knows where they stand and with the ticket allocation roughly known fans can plan in the knowledge whether or not they can get a ticket.
No more changing the critetia for every game. If I was cynical I would say it is changed to suit so that some people who wouldn't otherwise get a ticket can get one. It would be interesting to see who got tickets for the EURO qualifiers and who would have got tickets if one set of criteria was adopted.
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Post by manulike on Aug 9, 2016 19:18:02 GMT
Agree with you completely, Gary W. The work that Lucy and Mathew at the FAW ticket office do is commendable. I can imagine, that over the last 12 years or so, the exact same 600 or 700 names come up again and again, and they just put an instinctive tick next to their name...
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Post by gwernybwch on Aug 9, 2016 20:54:46 GMT
Agree with you completely, Gary W. The work that Lucy and Mathew at the FAW ticket office do is commendable. I can imagine, that over the last 12 years or so, the exact same 600 or 700 names come up again and again, and they just put an instinctive tick next to their name... I have to say that I don't always get this love-in that some fans have with the FAW's ticket office.
Over the last 12 months they have seemed to have changed the ticketing criteria on several occasions, resisted calls to introduce a system where each fan would know their own point score, balls up the sale of the WC 2018 TT and totally ignored the advice from the FSF on the matter (Although on my own personal dealings with them, they have been excellent).
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Post by yanto on Aug 10, 2016 6:39:21 GMT
Producing a priority list must be beneficial to both faw and to us, it should then make faw's job relatively easy at application time (scan the list, find member, tick). And it shows respect to the fans to ensure they do not spend money on flights, hotels when they have no chance of a ticket. I suspect the police in each country would encourage it too as they don't want loads of ticketless fans turning up. I have booked flights and hotel for Austria and despite the 2500 capacity think i have a reasonable chance of a ticket on past criteria. However, i am also realistic that i may not get a ticket. If this happens its probably the last time i will take a gamble as its not going to be possible to increase my loyality given the same 700 that went to bosnia will always get tickets. I estimate i sit somewhere between 1500 and 3000 in my points loyality, meaning the most vulnerable area for getting a ticket.
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Post by cymruramdcfc on Aug 10, 2016 9:24:55 GMT
Producing a priority list must be beneficial to both faw and to us, it should then make faw's job relatively easy at application time (scan the list, find member, tick). And it shows respect to the fans to ensure they do not spend money on flights, hotels when they have no chance of a ticket. I suspect the police in each country would encourage it too as they don't want loads of ticketless fans turning up. I have booked flights and hotel for Austria and despite the 2500 capacity think i have a reasonable chance of a ticket on past criteria. However, i am also realistic that i may not get a ticket. If this happens its probably the last time i will take a gamble as its not going to be possible to increase my loyality given the same 700 that went to bosnia will always get tickets. I estimate i sit somewhere between 1500 and 3000 in my points loyality, meaning the most vulnerable area for getting a ticket. Agree if I don't get ticket I wont be booking in advance again. Im not into traveling across Europe to watch on a tv that's for sure, I cant what all complications with this loyalty schee sure they could put on you membership site that your ranked 20th or 20,000 so that you know how much chance you have . Its simple really when you log on to site its there. I have no problem's with FAW ticketing and to be honest they bern fair. Its booking in advance for flights is my problem
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Aug 10, 2016 10:07:19 GMT
Producing a priority list must be beneficial to both faw and to us, it should then make faw's job relatively easy at application time (scan the list, find member, tick). And it shows respect to the fans to ensure they do not spend money on flights, hotels when they have no chance of a ticket. I suspect the police in each country would encourage it too as they don't want loads of ticketless fans turning up. I have booked flights and hotel for Austria and despite the 2500 capacity think i have a reasonable chance of a ticket on past criteria. However, i am also realistic that i may not get a ticket. If this happens its probably the last time i will take a gamble as its not going to be possible to increase my loyality given the same 700 that went to bosnia will always get tickets. I estimate i sit somewhere between 1500 and 3000 in my points loyality, meaning the most vulnerable area for getting a ticket. Agree if I don't get ticket I wont be booking in advance again. Im not into traveling across Europe to watch on a tv that's for sure, I cant what all complications with this loyalty schee sure they could put on you membership site that your ranked 20th or 20,000 so that you know how much chance you have . Its simple really when you log on to site its there. I have no problem's with FAW ticketing and to be honest they bern fair. Its booking in advance for flights is my problem I agree, due to my location in the UK it is a logistical nightmare to go to home games. I would rather use the annual leave I would have to take to just go to the away games but I'm now worried I will miss out on Serbia Georgia and Moldova- it would be really helpful to have an idea in advance of what allocation we will get and demand for tickets. I am loathe to book anything only to find myself travelling all that way to watch on TV.
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Post by eppingblue on Aug 10, 2016 10:21:04 GMT
On the upside the impression of our fans following the euro's will be fantastic. If they can accommodate any extra fans I'm sure they will. We should try and strike an early 5,000 each deal with the ROI. Austria seem to pretty nearly sell out their qualifiers and we're now an attractive fixture. Moldova will be difficult due to the size of their ground but it's a mighty difficult place to get to. Hopefully the Serbia and georgia games will be in Belgrade and Tbilisi and should be ok. Haven't made up my mind about Austria. In Gran Canaria at the mo on a family holiday, just about recharged the batteries after three and half weeks in France, but the finances ain't what they could and I'm starting to piss off some clients. I've offered the wife a couple of days in Vienna but she tumbled me in a second. So it's a probable no.
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Post by cymro on Aug 10, 2016 10:59:00 GMT
Question about Georgia: I know they have that big 50k stadium but am I right in thinking they usually have a reduced capacity, therefore we wouldn't get the expected 2.5k (roughly) allocation? Not that I think we'd take 2.5k to Georgia anyway.
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Post by daearegwr on Aug 10, 2016 11:08:20 GMT
Question about Georgia: I know they have that big 50k stadium but am I right in thinking they usually have a reduced capacity, therefore we wouldn't get the expected 2.5k (roughly) allocation? Not that I think we'd take 2.5k to Georgia anyway. They're playing Austria at home on 5th September so will keep an eye on the capacity from that match to gauge whether they do reduce the capacity or not
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Post by corky on Aug 10, 2016 11:31:37 GMT
All good points and great to get this feedback,Gary Williams is correct in what he says and at the moment it is not as simple as it should be but that must be put down to the size of the Ticketting team compared to other countries and the finances.
The ideal scenario for us would be for the FAW to employ some young computor experts to go through all the records that are available concerning Ticket buying history of members both home and away plus their membership history and allocate the relevant points to those members. That would mean we could log on to the ticket page and it would say our name, member number and most importantly TOTAL POINTS. If that was set up then it could be programmed to automatically update when members buy membership or home and away tickets and the FAW would be able to use the system to work out ticket criteria.
The draw back is the initial cost of setting that up and the time it would take to complete, the fact that records have been lost for some members, many members also bought home tickets without there being a record of it, for example through the Clubs and schools scheme etc.
So we are where we are but we do know that this campaign Lucy and her team have done a reciprocal deal to get between 5-10% of the tickets for the away games we are playing,but again this would depend on how many we are able to offer in return, should we give 7% of our 34,000 (2,380) to Ireland in return for 7% of the Aviva stadium 50,000 (3,500)? If we did we would lose some home seating but not too much but I doubt we could allowc 10% 3,400 to be given to the Irish
So you can see the FAW ticketting have many things to take into account but it would be great if we could come to a system that would allow fans more confidence when booking away travel, because at the moment there maybe quite a few booked for Vienna who may not get tickets, but its hard to tell untill we get the applications in.
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Post by osprey on Aug 10, 2016 12:45:39 GMT
On the upside the impression of our fans following the euro's will be fantastic. If they can accommodate any extra fans I'm sure they will. We should try and strike an early 5,000 each deal with the ROI. Austria seem to pretty nearly sell out their qualifiers and we're now an attractive fixture. Moldova will be difficult due to the size of their ground but it's a mighty difficult place to get to. Hopefully the Serbia and georgia games will be in Belgrade and Tbilisi and should be ok. Haven't made up my mind about Austria. In Gran Canaria at the mo on a family holiday, just about recharged the batteries after three and half weeks in France, but the finances ain't what they could and I'm starting to piss off some clients. I've offered the wife a couple of days in Vienna but she tumbled me in a second. So it's a probable no. Ditto regards family holiday, recharged batteries, finances and pissing off clients. Still working on Austria game though
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worsy
the carls
Posts: 99
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Post by worsy on Aug 10, 2016 18:03:48 GMT
All good points and great to get this feedback,Gary Williams is correct in what he says and at the moment it is not as simple as it should be but that must be put down to the size of the Ticketting team compared to other countries and the finances. The ideal scenario for us would be for the FAW to employ some young computor experts to go through all the records that are available concerning Ticket buying history of members both home and away plus their membership history and allocate the relevant points to those members. That would mean we could log on to the ticket page and it would say our name, member number and most importantly TOTAL POINTS. If that was set up then it could be programmed to automatically update when members buy membership or home and away tickets and the FAW would be able to use the system to work out ticket criteria. The draw back is the initial cost of setting that up and the time it would take to complete, the fact that records have been lost for some members, many members also bought home tickets without there being a record of it, for example through the Clubs and schools scheme etc. So we are where we are but we do know that this campaign Lucy and her team have done a reciprocal deal to get between 5-10% of the tickets for the away games we are playing,but again this would depend on how many we are able to offer in return, should we give 7% of our 34,000 (2,380) to Ireland in return for 7% of the Aviva stadium 50,000 (3,500)? If we did we would lose some home seating but not too much but I doubt we could allowc 10% 3,400 to be given to the Irish So you can see the FAW ticketting have many things to take into account but it would be great if we could come to a system that would allow fans more confidence when booking away travel, because at the moment there maybe quite a few booked for Vienna who may not get tickets, but its hard to tell untill we get the applications in. Reciprocal deals are v.good idea like you say our 7% is less tickets than say Ireland or austria
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Post by yanto on Aug 10, 2016 18:52:14 GMT
Corky, much of the initial work must already be complete as every time there is an away game and the euro's applications will have generated alot of valid information. Given the proceeds from the euros spending 10 to 20k should be easy to find, particuarly when it offsets the number of hours Lucy and co put in each time. In business terms its a complete no fucking brainer.
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Post by CymruFach on Aug 10, 2016 22:34:33 GMT
A solution could be to offer the tickets for sale (if qty is known) at the beginning of the tournament, so ppl can order and tickets allocated early and then transport etc can be booked with confidence. I realise this would not be possible always due to, for example Countries not saying where games are going to be played until late on.
There is though the disheartening feeling of the same persons getting the tickets every time so you do then end up with a closed shop like at Man Utd a few try ago where season tickets with big loyalty were passed down through the family.. Difficult.
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Post by gwernybwch on Aug 11, 2016 7:59:00 GMT
There is though the disheartening feeling of the same persons getting the tickets every time so you do then end up with a closed shop like at Man Utd a few try ago where season tickets with big loyalty were passed down through the family.. Difficult. A closed shop? The 'shop' has been open since time began and was selling the relatively inexpensive Macedonia, Scotland, Belgium and Netherlands products. The same people did buy them and it was a pretty small shop back then, but lots of them went to waste.
However many that shopped there regularly are now broke, therefore I'm sure for those that have only ever been in the shop from June onwards will be able to buy products for at least Austria and maybe also Ireland.
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Post by vandenhauwe on Aug 11, 2016 8:19:39 GMT
There is though the disheartening feeling of the same persons getting the tickets every time so you do then end up with a closed shop like at Man Utd a few try ago where season tickets with big loyalty were passed down through the family.. Difficult. A closed shop? The 'shop' has been open since time began and was selling the relatively inexpensive Macedonia, Scotland, Belgium and Netherlands products. The same people did buy them and it was a pretty small shop back then, but lots of them went to waste.
However many that shopped there regularly are now broke, therefore I'm sure for those that have only ever been in the shop from June onwards will be able to buy products for at least Austria and maybe also Ireland.
Spot on!!! Can't remember being nagged for tickets for skopje,novi sad,Osijek etc
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