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Post by alarch on Nov 16, 2018 22:34:39 GMT
It's good to have high standards but I think Denmark are the better side. A few chances for Wales to take the lead. Kasper Schmichael is an underrated keeper. Don't really see the point in you concentrating on defending at home when a win is needed to top the group. Giggs needs a result against a bigger team but I don't see there being anything to worry about from this game. The young guys will be a year older next yeat. Patience will pay off. Perhaps - but you still need a coherent style of play. What's our footballing identity? It clearly doesn't involve controlling the middle of the park. Perhaps that will change with the emergence of Ampadu and Smith - we certainly need to put more emphasis on collective endevour (as Denmark demonstrated twice) than on individual brilliance.
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Post by saints19 on Nov 16, 2018 22:35:37 GMT
It's good to have high standards but I think Denmark are the better side. A few chances for Wales to take the lead. Kasper Schmichael is an underrated keeper. Don't really see the point in you concentrating on defending at home when a win is needed to top the group. Giggs needs a result against a bigger team but I don't see there being anything to worry about from this game. The young guys will be a year older next yeat. Patience will pay off. It's not exactly urging over-concentration on defence to say we should be able to stop basic soft goals like a lot of them have been recently.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 16, 2018 23:00:43 GMT
IMO playing Ampadu at centre-back was not the right decision tonight. Funny how we look at it differently- I think he’s a shoe in for centre back. All that pace, strength,confidence and ability to stretch the play with a raking long ball. He’s only going to get faster stronger and bigger and already has that don’t fuck with me attitude. Someone’s got to step in there. Ashley’s finished at this level.
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Post by rushlegend on Nov 16, 2018 23:03:49 GMT
IMO playing Ampadu at centre-back was not the right decision tonight.
Jeepers!!! - no other centre-backs left bar Lockyer who was 2 inexperienced - who would you have put there otherwise???
I do despair sometimes with your posts i really do!!!
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Post by saints19 on Nov 16, 2018 23:04:27 GMT
Funny how we look at it differently- I think he’s a shoe in for centre back. All that pace, strength,confidence and ability to stretch the play with a raking long ball. He’s only going to get faster stronger and bigger and already has that don’t fuck with me attitude. Someone’s got to step in there. Ashley’s finished at this level. His passing ability is great, but he lost his head a bit tonight, and turned his back for the second goal. In my view Ash may well have blocked that. Add in the handball to concede a penalty in the away game, and I don't think he's ready to play that position at international level yet. Now, on the other hand, as a midfielder against lower-ranked teams, I think he can be very useful.
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Post by saints19 on Nov 16, 2018 23:04:47 GMT
IMO playing Ampadu at centre-back was not the right decision tonight. Jeepers!!! - no other centre-backs left bar Lockyer who was 2 inexperienced - who would you have put there otherwise??? I do despair sometimes with your posts i really do!!! Lockyer and James Lawrence. At least they have played centre-back at club level a lot more than Ampadu, even if at a lower level.
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Post by alarch on Nov 16, 2018 23:08:57 GMT
He may have done better for the second goal, but Ampadu showed his class on other occasions. Given the alternative options I'm reluctant to criticise Giggs on this one.
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Post by zenith on Nov 16, 2018 23:10:57 GMT
Hennessey - 5 C Roberts - 6 Chester - 5 Williams - 6 Dummett - 6 Allen - 8 Ramsey - 5 Bale - 6 Brooks - 7 Lawrence - 5 T Roberts - 6
Gunter - 6 Ampadu - 6 Wilson - 5
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Post by robin1864 on Nov 16, 2018 23:12:22 GMT
Reality check here though, they've got a PL-winning keeper between the sticks (and it's shown), Eriksen is a top class player, Poulsen & Delaney are regulars for Germany's best clubs and Christensen is better than anyone we've got at centre back. We've got a bunch of eager but still naive kids trying to compliment Bale, Ramsey, Allen and an out of sorts Williams. Fantasy to think we'd come away with anything more than a draw. I don't think there's much between the sides on paper. Denmark have the edge in terms of steel and in terms of being difficult to beat. We just don't look difficult to beat at the moment. We are relying on a favourable draw to get to the Euros or a miraculous defensive improvement which I can't see Giggs achieving. IMO playing Ampadu at centre-back was not the right decision tonight. There's a massive difference between the teams on paper - Denmark have players at Ajax, Chelsea, Dortmund, Leipzig, Leicester and Spurs, playing in top competitions week in, week out, whilst our lot are mainly from Stoke, Villa and Swansea. We fielded largely inexperienced young players in key positions, see Roberts and Ampadu for instance. Our lads might be ones for the future, but we need players capable of fighting for the present.
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Post by saints19 on Nov 16, 2018 23:18:39 GMT
I don't think there's much between the sides on paper. Denmark have the edge in terms of steel and in terms of being difficult to beat. We just don't look difficult to beat at the moment. We are relying on a favourable draw to get to the Euros or a miraculous defensive improvement which I can't see Giggs achieving. IMO playing Ampadu at centre-back was not the right decision tonight. There's a massive difference between the teams on paper - Denmark have players at Ajax, Chelsea, Dortmund, Leipzig, Leicester and Spurs, playing in top competitions week in, week out, whilst our lot are mainly from Stoke, Villa and Swansea. We fielded largely inexperienced young players in key positions, see Roberts and Ampadu for instance. Our lads might be ones for the future, but we need players capable of fighting for the present. There's hardly a massive difference between the two sides. We have players from Real Madrid, Arsenal, Spurs (albeit Davies didn't play tonight), Bournemouth (top 8 PL side at the moment - and Brooks could probably play for a bigger team on current form). We're maybe one top class CB short of them, but that's it, in other areas we are pretty much even.
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Post by pendragon on Nov 16, 2018 23:24:16 GMT
Very disappointed. Started off well enough and created a good few chances in the first 30 minutes.
Seems it all started to go wrong for us when Dummett had to leave the field.
I've got to hand it to them, Denmark took their chances when they got them but that first goal was a poor one to concede. They were gifted acres of space.
There was some cynical tackling going on by the Danes too and Tyler Roberts taken down near the penalty area. They should definitely have been penalised more than they were though it seems the ref started putting his foot down towards the end.
Onwards and upwards. Plenty of positives to take from that game. Certainly improving and they were able to make space in between the Danish defence. Gave them a good game at times. The younger players will improve. As someone else has said, a year or so from now, we'll look back and reflect how far they've come (look at Denmark now, who failed to qualify for Euro 2016).
Disappointment aside, Denmark have certainly deserved their promotion to League A. Hopefully, we will next year too.
Bring on the Euro qualifiers in 2019 😀🖒
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Post by robin1864 on Nov 16, 2018 23:29:39 GMT
There's a massive difference between the teams on paper - Denmark have players at Ajax, Chelsea, Dortmund, Leipzig, Leicester and Spurs, playing in top competitions week in, week out, whilst our lot are mainly from Stoke, Villa and Swansea. We fielded largely inexperienced young players in key positions, see Roberts and Ampadu for instance. Our lads might be ones for the future, but we need players capable of fighting for the present. There's hardly a massive difference between the two sides. We have players from Real Madrid, Arsenal, Spurs (albeit Davies didn't play tonight), Bournemouth (top 8 PL side at the moment - and Brooks could probably play for a bigger team on current form). We're maybe one top class CB short of them, but that's it, in other areas we are pretty much even. We're a keeper, centre back & striker short of them. If they played Sisto, we'd be a left winger short too. Schmeichel was superb tonight and I hope Danny is making notes.
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Post by zenith on Nov 16, 2018 23:30:14 GMT
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Post by hooky on Nov 16, 2018 23:31:14 GMT
Its interesting to reflect how many decent chances we blew Chester - did not even hit the target twice when he had a free header and once he denied Bale who was in a better position. Why oh why are so many chances falling to the wrong player Bale failed to get a free header on target when very close to the goal Brooks missed an open goal albeit the ball had come in with great pace Bale's free kick touched onto the post by the keeper
Stats: We had 18 shots to their 10 We had 7 shots on target to their 3
Its very strange. It feels like our lack of defence and a midfield lost us the game BUT It was arguable our lack of being clinical in front of goal
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Post by pendragon on Nov 16, 2018 23:36:28 GMT
There's a massive difference between the teams on paper - Denmark have players at Ajax, Chelsea, Dortmund, Leipzig, Leicester and Spurs, playing in top competitions week in, week out, whilst our lot are mainly from Stoke, Villa and Swansea. We fielded largely inexperienced young players in key positions, see Roberts and Ampadu for instance. Our lads might be ones for the future, but we need players capable of fighting for the present. There's hardly a massive difference between the two sides. We have players from Real Madrid, Arsenal, Spurs (albeit Davies didn't play tonight), Bournemouth (top 8 PL side at the moment - and Brooks could probably play for a bigger team on current form). We're maybe one top class CB short of them, but that's it, in other areas we are pretty much even. Nice to see a positive post on the Wales team from you Saints 😆 I think what we're certainly missing in comparison to Denmark is experience - referring in particular to Brooks, Wilson, T. Roberts, Ampadu etc. Just that "awareness" and the clinical finishing. I think that will certainly come. Even a year or so from now, I feel we'll be reflecting on this result. Defence also still needs some work and is a bit suspect so that's another area we don't fare as well, compared to Denmark. They are a very experienced and battle-hardened side. I think that was certainly reflected in their ability to capitalise on their chances.
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Post by Tommy32 on Nov 16, 2018 23:36:47 GMT
Its interesting to reflect how many decent chances we blew Chester - did not even hit the target twice when he had a free header and once he denied Bale who was in a better position. Why oh why are so many chances falling to the wrong player Bale failed to get a free header on target when very close to the goal Brooks missed an open goal albeit the ball had come in with great pace Bale's free kick touched onto the post by the keeper Stats: We had 18 shots to their 10 We had 7 shots on target to their 3 Its very strange. It feels like our lack of defence and a midfield lost us the game BUT It was arguable our lack of being clinical in front of goal It’s naive to think we’ll score all our chances. Setting up to win a game 4-2 is great when it works, however we’d be more successful keeping it a bit tighter instead of being so gung ho. 1 sitting midfielder against a team that has one of the best 10s in the world? What’s he doing
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Post by saints19 on Nov 16, 2018 23:38:52 GMT
There's hardly a massive difference between the two sides. We have players from Real Madrid, Arsenal, Spurs (albeit Davies didn't play tonight), Bournemouth (top 8 PL side at the moment - and Brooks could probably play for a bigger team on current form). We're maybe one top class CB short of them, but that's it, in other areas we are pretty much even. We're a keeper, centre back & striker short of them. If they played Sisto, we'd be a left winger short too. Schmeichel was superb tonight and I hope Danny is making notes. Is Sisto massively better than any of Brooks, Wilson, or Lawrence who can all play left wing? Assuming obviously we don't count Bale who can play anywhere across the front three? Is Schmeichel massively better than Hennessey? I would say he's better, but not massively so.
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Post by saints19 on Nov 16, 2018 23:41:18 GMT
There's hardly a massive difference between the two sides. We have players from Real Madrid, Arsenal, Spurs (albeit Davies didn't play tonight), Bournemouth (top 8 PL side at the moment - and Brooks could probably play for a bigger team on current form). We're maybe one top class CB short of them, but that's it, in other areas we are pretty much even. Nice to see a positive post on the Wales team from you Saints 😆 I think what we're certainly missing in comparison to Denmark is experience - referring in particular to Brooks, Wilson, T. Roberts, Ampadu etc. Just that "awareness" and the clinical finishing. I think that will certainly come. Even a year or so from now, I feel we'll be reflecting on this result. Defence also still needs some work and is a bit suspect so that's another area we don't fare as well, compared to Denmark. They are a very experienced and battle-hardened side. I think that was certainly reflected in their ability to capitalise on their chances. Well, can't be negative all the time I think you could say that experience is the difference, which is fair enough, but to lose both games is still a bit disappointing. Overall I'm content enough with how the NL went, but I'm not certain at this point we're going to qualify, so there is a lot of work to be done.
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Post by melynwy on Nov 16, 2018 23:57:10 GMT
Is Schmeichel massively better than Hennessey? I would say he's better, but not massively so. I think he is so far ahead of Hennessey in every aspect of the game that its not even worth the time thinking of comparing them.
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Post by quetzal on Nov 16, 2018 23:57:28 GMT
Cadno probably called it right when he said Andy King should start. More balance
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Post by robin1864 on Nov 16, 2018 23:57:44 GMT
We're a keeper, centre back & striker short of them. If they played Sisto, we'd be a left winger short too. Schmeichel was superb tonight and I hope Danny is making notes. Is Sisto massively better than any of Brooks, Wilson, or Lawrence who can all play left wing? Assuming obviously we don't count Bale who can play anywhere across the front three? Is Schmeichel massively better than Hennessey? I would say he's better, but not massively so. Plays regularly for Celta, blistering pace and a very direct player. Tore our U21's a new one. Yes, yes he is, and massively so. Schmeichel has won the Premier League, made it to World Cup Knock-Outs, came third place for FIFA's Best Goalkeeper award this year and has been repeatedly voted Denmark's player of the year - More crucially, however, he saved 6 out of 7 shots tonight. Wayne, on the other hand, won the Championship 10 years ago, Anglesey's most famous son award and plays for a PL team who's only ambition is to survive the drop, but more to the point, he let in 2 out of 3 shots put to him tonight.
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Post by myrddin on Nov 17, 2018 0:37:43 GMT
I would have played Bale up front, Ramsey at 10 (although he was poor tonight), Brookes and Wilson wide, Allen and Ampadu holding.
Middle of defence is lacking pace unfortunately. Missed a left footer on the left when Gunter came on. Missed Davies.
Plenty to be positive about though. The stats look good. Lots of chances created and I thought we deserved at least a draw. In terms of balance I think we need Allen and Ampadu as holding midfielders though.
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Post by holmesdaleultra on Nov 17, 2018 1:09:28 GMT
Hennessey - 5 C Roberts - 6 Chester - 5 Williams - 6 Dummett - 6 Allen - 8 Ramsey - 5 Bale - 6 Brooks - 7 Lawrence - 5 T Roberts - 6 Gunter - 6 Ampadu - 6 Wilson - 5 Just back from the match with all that fog on the M4. Ramsey deserves a 2 ,1 point for turning up and one for singing the anthem he was woeful and deserves to be dropped and his place given t Woodburn Eriksen who is world class is on a different planet t Ramsey. Lawrence as well I would have given him a 3.
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Post by dai on Nov 17, 2018 1:21:24 GMT
The main problem tonight was that Allen was all by himself, he needed Smith as support. I see what Giggs is trying to do, in giving youngsters gametime and trying different ideas, but he needs to try and stick to a core base of players.
Second main problem was our serious lack of organisation and discipline off the ball. When Denmark lost the ball they quickly reverted to their defensive lines and were brilliant at closing down and holding a rigid formation. We just looked like headless chickens without the ball.
Giggs needs to seriously work on our off the ball work ethic and discipline. Ramsey was horrendus off ball tonight and left Allen with far too much to do. However blame falls on Giggs by playing him there.
Thought we'd have learnt more after Denmark away, seems we didnt learn anything.
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Post by conwy10 on Nov 17, 2018 4:16:48 GMT
Its interesting to reflect how many decent chances we blew Chester - did not even hit the target twice when he had a free header and once he denied Bale who was in a better position. Why oh why are so many chances falling to the wrong player Bale failed to get a free header on target when very close to the goal Brooks missed an open goal albeit the ball had come in with great pace Bale's free kick touched onto the post by the keeper Stats: We had 18 shots to their 10 We had 7 shots on target to their 3 Its very strange. It feels like our lack of defence and a midfield lost us the game BUT It was arguable our lack of being clinical in front of goal It’s naive to think we’ll score all our chances. Setting up to win a game 4-2 is great when it works, however we’d be more successful keeping it a bit tighter instead of being so gung ho. 1 sitting midfielder against a team that has one of the best 10s in the world? What’s he doing Surely we had 2 sitting midfielders in Allen and Ramsey, whether Ramsey fulfilled that role properly is debatable.
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Post by hooky on Nov 17, 2018 10:11:28 GMT
I don't get Ramsey. I know he loves Wales - he comes from 5 miles up the road from where I lived from Caerphilly and is passionate about Welsh rugby, etc.
So when he knows his greatest talent is his engine, box to box attributes and ability to see things in front of him, then why does he decide with all his experience to just goal hang up front, when we already have 4 forwards playing upfront? Who does he think he is? If he does not want to do the role that he should be most effective at and which is best for Wales then I'd rather not have him in the team. We just can't afford to carry him. Smith would have done a far better role than him and probably Ampadu too alongside Allen. He would probably retire if dropped to the bench but when he goes awol it is like having a first division player on the pitch.
Chester has missed 3 sitters and someone like Ramos would have nailed everyone. I guess that is the difference between top quality and championship level.
I think its clear we have needed more experience on the pitch. Unfortunately I think the players Giggs has snubbed are likely to retire. Vokes must be the most pissed off seeing Tyler Roberts hardly set the world alight but becoming a shoe in ahead of him. King must be considering things too following the emergence of Smith and Ampadu.
Am worried why Mepham keeps missing Wales games. If you noticed last time he missed the Ireland match and then played EVERY Brentford match, then he is injured for the big one versus Denmark. I bet you he starts for Brentford's next game. We can't allow this to happen. We need him to get experience as we need the replacement in place for one of Williams and Chester to gain as much experience as he can asap.
Think Dummett looked very solid when he started for us. We were so unlucky with all the defensive injuries we had I guess. My heart sunk when Gunter came on - he is honest and solid but I definitely had that its not gonna be our night feeling when he came on.
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Post by cymruramdcfc on Nov 17, 2018 10:33:55 GMT
Out with the old in with the new I think giggsy way... over all most pleased with the national league format and made friendlies more competitive but we building for the future.
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Post by pendragon on Nov 17, 2018 10:56:53 GMT
Think Dummett looked very solid when he started for us. We were so unlucky with all the defensive injuries we had I guess. My heart sunk when Gunter came on - he is honest and solid but I definitely had that its not gonna be our night feeling when he came on. This. I hate to say it but when Dummett came off and Gunter came on, I had a lot of doubts as to whether we could pull off a result, sadly.
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Post by fiveattheback on Nov 17, 2018 11:05:33 GMT
Lawrence was awful
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Post by jono on Nov 17, 2018 11:15:59 GMT
Denmark have mastered the art of doing absolutely nothing and getting comfortable wins. Ramsey offers nothing in a Wales shirt and Bale is so deep he's unable to influence a game. Despair when he's picking the ball up in the right back position. A very poor performance all round.
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