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Post by dai on Nov 8, 2018 11:34:07 GMT
Based on recent performances, Smith is pushing Ampadu close, and I would have no hesitation in starting Smith over him against Denmark. He's been playing regular football for one, so will probably be fitter and sharper.
I wouldn't be surprised if we'll see Lawrence at some point against Denmark, Giggs seems to like capping players as soon as possible!
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Post by cymroircarn on Nov 8, 2018 11:53:16 GMT
A poster above would disagree as he wants to see King start Chris Coleman's got an account on here it seems. 😂
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Post by rossyjones on Nov 8, 2018 14:15:43 GMT
Chris Coleman's got an account on here it seems. 😂 Would love to know the merits of starting Andy King
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Post by cymroircarn on Nov 8, 2018 14:21:36 GMT
Would love to know the merits of starting Andy King I asked the same, especially as he has hardly played for Leicester this season (certainly not in the league anyway)
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Post by welshiron on Nov 8, 2018 14:23:44 GMT
Wouldn't start king myself, however experience can be important at the highest level. Wouldn't be the biggest shock if he played although more likely to be used from the bench then play in Albania
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Post by cadno on Nov 8, 2018 16:52:57 GMT
On what basis though as it’s November and he is yet to play this season? He's still training, not injured
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Post by cadno on Nov 8, 2018 17:00:19 GMT
Would love to know the merits of starting Andy King Lol - people don't blink an eye if Ampadu is suggested but he hasn't played a minute for Chelsea either!! The fact is King is more experienced than Ampadu and Smith, and he has hardly ever let us down. Ampadu struggled a little bit against Denmark, Smith did well against Ireland but I think Denmark's midfield is a lot better. If all 3 were playing regularly then I would opt for Ampadu, but King edges it over Smith right now IMO.
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Post by cadno on Nov 8, 2018 17:05:08 GMT
Taylor has been starting for Aston Villa recently, I don't think there's much between him and Dummett. Given that Smith is playing regularly and King isn't, I can see how Smith could be a more logical option.But I think if King is fit enough then we could really use his experience against a very good Denmark midfield. Matt Smith and Ampadu are going to be huge for us, but I'd rather see King alongside Allen and Ramsey for this game. I'm a bit disappointed there's no Lee Evans yet again. Nice to see Shaun Macdonald back in Wigan's squad the other day. What's up with Ledley, is he injured?? Ledley had major surgery last month and is said to be out til the New Year.
I've seen enough of Smith to assure you that he isn't the future for Wales - he is the right now ;-) Compared to a fully fit Ampadu, Ethan has a slight edge - but Ampadu right now is far from match fit.
Also seen Taylor the last two weeks and agree with you, he can start for me as well.
Thanks for clearing that up i.e Ledley, we miss him. I don't think Smith is quite ready especially against a side as good as Denmark's but I'll be more than happy to be proven wrong!
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Post by cadno on Nov 8, 2018 17:36:20 GMT
A poster above would disagree as he wants to see King start Chris Coleman's got an account on here it seems. Ampadu struggled a bit against Denmark and Spain - fact. Smith did well against Ireland but Denmark's midfield are a different class - fact. King is more experienced than both, and he hardly ever lets us down (I can only think of the red card vs Cyprus?) - fact.
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Post by erasedcitizen on Nov 8, 2018 17:39:43 GMT
Chris Coleman's got an account on here it seems. Ampadu struggled a bit against Denmark and Spain - fact. Smith did well against Ireland but Denmark's midfield are a different class - fact. King is more experienced than both, and he hardly ever lets us down (I can only think of the red card vs Cyprus?) - fact. King's hardly let us down because no one's had any expectation of him. I can hardly remember a game where he was above average for ourselves and most of the time I thought he was rather poor. Next you'll be clamouring for Sam Vokes to start. Ampadu had an outstanding game against Ireland at home, that's one more than King's ever had for us.
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Post by iot on Nov 8, 2018 17:40:51 GMT
Would love to know the merits of starting Andy King Lol - people don't blink an eye if Ampadu is suggested but he hasn't played a minute for Chelsea either!! The fact is King is more experienced than Ampadu and Smith, and he has hardly ever let us down. Ampadu struggled a little bit against Denmark, Smith did well against Ireland but I think Denmark's midfield is a lot better. If all 3 were playing regularly then I would opt for Ampadu, but King edges it over Smith right now IMO. "he has hardly ever let us down" Yes he has, in about 95% of the games he's featured in where he hasn't contributed anything. Not his fault, but he isn't good enough. I don't get your logic where you say if all are fit ampadu edges it, but with neither ampadu nor King playing that King edges it? I would definitely go for Smith. He's the only one playing regularly and had a decent performance against Ireland. Ampadu is the better player, but he needs to be playing regularly and hopefully seeing Smith start ahead of him will be what he needs to demand he either's more involved at chelsea, or gets a loan move in Jan.
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Post by erasedcitizen on Nov 8, 2018 17:45:13 GMT
Based on a mixture of form and talent, I'd go for:
Hennessey
Roberts Williams Chester Dummett
Ampadu Allen
Brooks Ramsey Lawrence
Bale
I'd say there's some leeway for the players in bold, Chester could come out for Mepham as there doesn't seem to be a lot between the two right now, Dummett could come out for Taylor due to form and Lawrence could come out for Wilson if he's comfortable playing on the left hand side. If Ampadu's fit there's no option but to start him as he has talent in abundance, but Smith replaces him otherwise. Due to the danger Eriksen possesses, I'd like to see Ampadu sit just in front of the defence for most of the game. Allen has to do the covering when Ampadu gets forward.
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Post by TheWelshWay on Nov 8, 2018 17:46:25 GMT
I can see him starting to get a 50th cap and shave the Number into his hair a la Jones v Slovakia ... but in the real world Smith to start.
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Post by cadno on Nov 8, 2018 19:06:11 GMT
Lol - people don't blink an eye if Ampadu is suggested but he hasn't played a minute for Chelsea either!! The fact is King is more experienced than Ampadu and Smith, and he has hardly ever let us down. Ampadu struggled a little bit against Denmark, Smith did well against Ireland but I think Denmark's midfield is a lot better. If all 3 were playing regularly then I would opt for Ampadu, but King edges it over Smith right now IMO. "he has hardly ever let us down" Yes he has, in about 95% of the games he's featured in where he hasn't contributed anything. Not his fault, but he isn't good enough. I don't get your logic where you say if all are fit ampadu edges it, but with neither ampadu nor King playing that King edges it?
I would definitely go for Smith. He's the only one playing regularly and had a decent performance against Ireland. Ampadu is the better player, but he needs to be playing regularly and hopefully seeing Smith start ahead of him will be what he needs to demand he either's more involved at chelsea, or gets a loan move in Jan. I don't get your logic where you say if all are fit ampadu edges it, but with neither ampadu nor King playing that King edges it? lol - GOOD point. disagree i.e 95% of the games, that's absolute nonsense sorry mate, he was superb against Austria away last campaign, and his positioning is very good, he fills in gaps and makes us difficult to break down.
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Post by cadno on Nov 8, 2018 19:08:34 GMT
Ampadu struggled a bit against Denmark and Spain - fact. Smith did well against Ireland but Denmark's midfield are a different class - fact. King is more experienced than both, and he hardly ever lets us down (I can only think of the red card vs Cyprus?) - fact. King's hardly let us down because no one's had any expectation of him. I can hardly remember a game where he was above average for ourselves and most of the time I thought he was rather poor. Next you'll be clamouring for Sam Vokes to start. Ampadu had an outstanding game against Ireland at home, that's one more than King's ever had for us. King was superb against Austria away last campaign! Ireland are a piss poor side compared to Denmark. King is more experienced and better equipped to handle the Danish midfield imo!
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Post by cymroircarn on Nov 8, 2018 19:09:49 GMT
King's hardly let us down because no one's had any expectation of him. I can hardly remember a game where he was above average for ourselves and most of the time I thought he was rather poor. Next you'll be clamouring for Sam Vokes to start. Ampadu had an outstanding game against Ireland at home, that's one more than King's ever had for us. King was superb against Austria away last campaign! Ireland are a piss poor side compared to Denmark. King is more experienced and better equipped to handle the Danish midfield imo! Agree with what you are saying ref Austria away but that was 2 years ago and he’s hardly played since......
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Post by pendragon on Nov 8, 2018 20:02:38 GMT
King's hardly let us down because no one's had any expectation of him. I can hardly remember a game where he was above average for ourselves and most of the time I thought he was rather poor. Next you'll be clamouring for Sam Vokes to start. Ampadu had an outstanding game against Ireland at home, that's one more than King's ever had for us. King was superb against Austria away last campaign! Ireland are a piss poor side compared to Denmark. King is more experienced and better equipped to handle the Danish midfield imo! I was watching the Wales v Spain game and Brooks was running towards the Spanish penalty box on the right wing, and was trying to find King on a couple of occasions, who was positioned towards the centre of the penalty area. King just didn't have the pace to keep up with him and even if he'd have been able to find him, I doubt King would have scored. Don't get me wrong, he still has a part to play but he isn't on the same level as some of the stronger members of the squad these days. We need to be starting our strongest possible starting XI and while he might be an effective sub or a starter against weaker opposition, I wouldn't be starting him against Denmark.
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Post by cadno on Nov 8, 2018 20:22:08 GMT
King was superb against Austria away last campaign! Ireland are a piss poor side compared to Denmark. King is more experienced and better equipped to handle the Danish midfield imo! I was watching the Wales v Spain game and Brooks was running towards the Spanish penalty box on the right wing, and was trying to find King on a couple of occasions, who was positioned towards the centre of the penalty area. King just didn't have the pace to keep up with him and even if he'd have been able to find him, I doubt King would have scored. Don't get me wrong, he still has a part to play but he isn't on the same level as some of the stronger members of the squad these days. We need to be starting our strongest possible starting XI and while he might be an effective sub or a starter against weaker opposition, I wouldn't be starting him against Denmark. I'll agree to disagree, just wish Ledley was fit to play!
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Post by iot on Nov 8, 2018 20:55:06 GMT
"he has hardly ever let us down" Yes he has, in about 95% of the games he's featured in where he hasn't contributed anything. Not his fault, but he isn't good enough. I don't get your logic where you say if all are fit ampadu edges it, but with neither ampadu nor King playing that King edges it?
I would definitely go for Smith. He's the only one playing regularly and had a decent performance against Ireland. Ampadu is the better player, but he needs to be playing regularly and hopefully seeing Smith start ahead of him will be what he needs to demand he either's more involved at chelsea, or gets a loan move in Jan. I don't get your logic where you say if all are fit ampadu edges it, but with neither ampadu nor King playing that King edges it? lol - GOOD point. disagree i.e 95% of the games, that's absolute nonsense sorry mate, he was superb against Austria away last campaign, and his positioning is very good, he fills in gaps and makes us difficult to break down. Each to their own. I might be missing what he brings to the team, I just don't see it.
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Post by Albert on Nov 8, 2018 21:21:21 GMT
I was watching the Wales v Spain game and Brooks was running towards the Spanish penalty box on the right wing, and was trying to find King on a couple of occasions, who was positioned towards the centre of the penalty area. King just didn't have the pace to keep up with him and even if he'd have been able to find him, I doubt King would have scored. Don't get me wrong, he still has a part to play but he isn't on the same level as some of the stronger members of the squad these days. We need to be starting our strongest possible starting XI and while he might be an effective sub or a starter against weaker opposition, I wouldn't be starting him against Denmark. I'll agree to disagree, just wish Ledley was fit to play! I was waiting for this , Next you're going to say you want Coleman back !! 🤔.
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Post by manulike on Nov 8, 2018 21:39:40 GMT
If we are having Coleman back, I insist on recalling Simon Church ;+)
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Post by pendragon on Nov 8, 2018 21:54:03 GMT
If we are having Coleman back, I insist on recalling Simon Church ;+) ....
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Post by cadno on Nov 9, 2018 12:56:32 GMT
I'll agree to disagree, just wish Ledley was fit to play! I was waiting for this , Next you're going to say you want Coleman back !! 🤔. It's class to have these youngsters coming through, but it's pretty laughable how some people believe we've outgrown our Ledley's, Gunter's etc. These are good players, we need these players, thats's a fact! "Rodon needs to start ahead of Williams" "Is Ramsey dropable in the next year?" "Ledley is past it" Total insanity!!
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Post by cymroircarn on Nov 9, 2018 13:59:22 GMT
I was waiting for this , Next you're going to say you want Coleman back !! 🤔. It's class to have these youngsters coming through, but it's pretty laughable how some people believe we've outgrown our Ledley's, Gunter's etc. These are good players, we need these players, thats's a fact! "Rodon needs to start ahead of Williams" "Is Ramsey dropable in the next year?" "Ledley is past it" Total insanity!! Agreed but King has never been at their level 😉
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Post by richierich333 on Nov 9, 2018 14:14:42 GMT
Chris Coleman's got an account on here it seems. Ampadu struggled a bit against Denmark and Spain - fact. Smith did well against Ireland but Denmark's midfield are a different class - fact. King is more experienced than both, and he hardly ever lets us down (I can only think of the red card vs Cyprus?) - fact. I don't think any of those can be labelled as facts but pretty accurate except the last one. King for me was a massive let down V Georgia at home against supposedly 'inferior' opposition in a must win game. The guy was anonymous for a whole hour and it wasn't just me saying that it in the stand. I have nothing at all against the guy personally but he doesn't start for me, ever again.
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Post by dai on Nov 9, 2018 14:16:44 GMT
I'd put money down on Smith starting over Ampadu against Denmark, providing Twente let him go that is.
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Post by richierich333 on Nov 9, 2018 14:20:53 GMT
King's hardly let us down because no one's had any expectation of him. I can hardly remember a game where he was above average for ourselves and most of the time I thought he was rather poor. Next you'll be clamouring for Sam Vokes to start. Ampadu had an outstanding game against Ireland at home, that's one more than King's ever had for us. King was superb against Austria away last campaign! Ireland are a piss poor side compared to Denmark. King is more experienced and better equipped to handle the Danish midfield imo! Sorry Cadno I cannot agree that King is more capable of handling the Danish midfield than the others. He brings nothing to the table and goes missing whether were playing good, average or bad sides. I can't even say he's played 'bad' for us purely because he's been completely anonymous. What does he bring to the team apart from 'one of the lads' 'years in the PL' 'lots of caps' etc...?
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Post by cadno on Nov 9, 2018 16:53:35 GMT
King was superb against Austria away last campaign! Ireland are a piss poor side compared to Denmark. King is more experienced and better equipped to handle the Danish midfield imo! Sorry Cadno I cannot agree that King is more capable of handling the Danish midfield than the others. He brings nothing to the table and goes missing whether were playing good, average or bad sides. I can't even say he's played 'bad' for us purely because he's been completely anonymous. What does he bring to the team apart from 'one of the lads' 'years in the PL' 'lots of caps' etc...? Players are only on the ball for average of 2 mins per game, King's positioning is very good, he's disciplined, keeps it very simple and makes it more difficult for teams to play through us. I agree he doesn't always stand out but he's an important part of the team when he does play, fair enough if you disagree.
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Post by fiveattheback on Nov 9, 2018 18:36:37 GMT
Hennessey
Roberts Williams Mepham Dummett
Smith Allen
Brooks Ramsey Wilson
Bale
I've never been a huge fan of King, but I can see where cadno is coming from, but Smith edges it for me
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Post by allezlesrouges on Nov 9, 2018 23:44:34 GMT
My predicted lineup for this one;
Hennessey
Roberts Williams Mepham Dummett
Ampadu Allen
Brooks Ramsey Wilson
Bale
I think in regards to the Smith vs Ampadu vs King debate, the answer is if Ampadu is fit he plays. No question. With respect to Smith and his performance in Dublin, Ampadu blew me away against Ireland in Cardiff, and he is currently a better player than Smith. Smith is definitely ahead of King, as his selection in Dublin proves, and I think Smith will come on for Ampadu after about 60 minutes of this one.
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