|
|
Post by jackanapes on Feb 28, 2023 11:23:06 GMT
There are huge issues at Swansea. Partly it’s the absentee owners who appear to have no plan to build a team to challenge for promotion and are unwilling to back the manager. Partly it’s down to some poor recruitment - Here the blame is shared as Martin has bought some duds but the club have also bought players he didn’t want and refuses to use.
By now a big factor appears to be Martin himself. Whatever his qualities (and he has at times got the team playing some great football) he has made things difficult for himself with poor man management and tactical inflexibility. There’s a sense that the team are overcoached and lack spontaneity in attack, while we create huge problems for ourselves defensively by playing suicidal football when under pressure in our defensive third. Players don’t seem to have the discretion to deviate from our general approach when it really is needed.
Finally he seems to have lost the players confidence. As individuals and a collective they are playing much worse than their potential, and it’s getting worse from game to game. Players who came into the team with a spark have been gradually neutered and drained of confidence. Sometimes a manager runs out of road with a group of players. I think Martin could actually do well at a club that backed him but he’s also young and has a lot to learn. The players could also do a lot better with a coach that played to the strengths of the group, rather than trying to micromanage a style that doesn’t suit many of them. I can’t see things improving without a managerial change.
I wouldn’t doubt Cooper though - he’s been great this season with his energy and dynamism. He’s suffering now just as the team is suffering but there’s a quality player there.
|
|
|
|
Post by allezlesrouges on Feb 28, 2023 12:30:37 GMT
Young players will go up and down in form, I'm not worried about that. As clubs form goes up and down, it would take a special player to continue to do brilliantly in spite of that
The fact that Oli is getting a full season as a regular is great - it's what he needs now that he's 23. Minutes minutes minutes. With Premier League players around he him be also improve
|
|
|
|
Post by cadno on Feb 28, 2023 13:38:12 GMT
I went to watch the Swans last week. Stoke got the better of them tactically, Morgan fox having a decent game as cb in a back 4. The swans are predictable and easy to play against now, teams press and get in their faces and they have no answers.
Oli Cooper was one of the only highlights, he was brilliant as a 10, getting out of tight areas with great skill.
I’m worried for the Swans going forward, they desperately need the owners to invest and bring players in.
|
|
|
|
Post by iot on Feb 28, 2023 17:00:36 GMT
There are huge issues at Swansea. Partly it’s the absentee owners who appear to have no plan to build a team to challenge for promotion and are unwilling to back the manager. Partly it’s down to some poor recruitment - Here the blame is shared as Martin has bought some duds but the club have also bought players he didn’t want and refuses to use. By now a big factor appears to be Martin himself. Whatever his qualities (and he has at times got the team playing some great football) he has made things difficult for himself with poor man management and tactical inflexibility. There’s a sense that the team are overcoached and lack spontaneity in attack, while we create huge problems for ourselves defensively by playing suicidal football when under pressure in our defensive third. Players don’t seem to have the discretion to deviate from our general approach when it really is needed. Finally he seems to have lost the players confidence. As individuals and a collective they are playing much worse than their potential, and it’s getting worse from game to game. Players who came into the team with a spark have been gradually neutered and drained of confidence. Sometimes a manager runs out of road with a group of players. I think Martin could actually do well at a club that backed him but he’s also young and has a lot to learn. The players could also do a lot better with a coach that played to the strengths of the group, rather than trying to micromanage a style that doesn’t suit many of them. I can’t see things improving without a managerial change. I wouldn’t doubt Cooper though - he’s been great this season with his energy and dynamism. He’s suffering now just as the team is suffering but there’s a quality player there. For me, the nub of the issue is that bit highlighted in bold. You will have watched them a lot more than me, but I'm not a fan of that line of thinking - it's something that pundits and commentators bang on about all the time when teams play that type of football (whether it's Man City or Swansea) - 'there's a time and a place for it', 'sometimes you just need to know when to put your foot through it' etc. I think it misses the point to a large extent. Some people seem to think that it's all well and good playing that football when given space, but when the opposition are pressing high that they should adjust their approach and go more direct. That misses the point - the main purpose is to invite the pressure, to draw the opposition onto them, and if they do it well enough they can play around them and open up a whole load of space. It's easy to deride the approach when it goes wrong, and a ball gets intercepted deep in their own half, but if Swansea were to start playing a lot more direct every time the opposition were applying a press, they wouldn't be able to play that style at all. I think there's a massive amount of misunderstanding within the fanbase on that, which is why Swansea fans start whistling now every time the defenders and sitting midfielders string a few passes together under pressure, which just places more pressure on them. For me, the issue isn't about sticking rigidly to that style, it's just that they're not playing in that style well enough and are getting picked off. I don't think the fans are helping the situation at all. |
|
|
|
Post by jackanapes on Feb 28, 2023 17:26:20 GMT
I understand your perspective but I think you need to bear in mind that the fans have seen similar tactics applied effectively by managers like Martinez, Rogers, Laudrup and even Potter. The difference here is some of the players aren’t as technically gifted as their predecessors (even at Championship level). Second is that under previous managers we had a strategy - if we couldn’t play through the press we’d play over it. A full back would push up or a winger would drop into the space vacated by the opposition to receive the ball in space on the touchline. We also had players (like Ashley Williams) capable if playing long diagonal passes. There was a flexibility built in to the system and the players had the intelligence and courage to make the calls.
Another issue - in the past once we’d beaten the press we’d try to utilise the space to attack. Now we just recycle possession and wait for the opposition to drop back into their defensive shape. We therefore take on all the risks of playing through the press without accumulating any of the benefits. The fans aren’t irrational- they can see it isn’t working. It may be fair to say we are spoilt. We’ve had a long period with good players and managers. On the other hand Martin has had almost two seasons and we’re still seeing the same mistakes, and if anything they’re getting worse.
|
|
|
|
Post by manulike on Mar 11, 2023 20:34:44 GMT
with thanks to dragonsoccer Ollie Cooper was withdrawn at half-time of the defeat to Boro through injury, although Martin has allayed concerns over the fitness of the 23-year-old, who is hoping to be included in Rob Page's Wales squad this week. "He had a knock, he wasn't quite himself after he got a kick in the first half," Martin said of Cooper. "He felt he could go on but it just wasn't worth risking. He wasn't able to produce his best performance after he took a big whack. It was a bit of a precaution really. We've got two really important games coming up and obviously there's the Wales squad announcement as well which we hope he'll be in. |
|
|
|
Post by allezlesrouges on Mar 11, 2023 20:51:00 GMT
They know by now who has been called up, so reading between the lines that's confirmation that he's in
|
|
|
|
Post by jimexotic on Mar 12, 2023 17:34:59 GMT
So Oli is taking Johnny's place in the squad it seems.
|
|
|
|
Post by surge on Mar 12, 2023 19:39:50 GMT
So Oli is taking Johnny's place in the squad it seems. Extremely likeable - check Good technical skill - check Unlikely to be a starter - check Born in England but proud as punch to be Welsh - check Smaller in stature - check (Jonny was unlikely to be a starter largely due to injuries and Oli only unlikely to be starter immediately, but he's got a lot of potential left to grow into). |
|
|
|
Post by aboutaboy on Jun 28, 2023 9:22:09 GMT
Could he play in central midfield?
|
|
|
|
Post by iot on Jun 28, 2023 10:07:39 GMT
Could he play in central midfield? Not from what I've seen, he looks like a classic 10 / wide forward. To be honest, after a promising middle part of the season, he didn't do much at all in the last couple of months and was eventually dropped more often than not. I don't personally think he's going to be an important player for us, although hopefully a useful squad option. |
|
|
|
Post by janglingjack on Oct 7, 2023 15:28:48 GMT
The coopster is back
|
|
|
|
Post by saturn9 on Oct 7, 2023 17:47:39 GMT
Marked improvement in Swans when he came on v Norwich Wednesday night, far better option currently than Cullen. Congreve on the bench also👍 but should be looking at a loan now. |
|
|
|
Post by saturn9 on Nov 25, 2023 16:36:06 GMT
Starts today and an assist. According to my mate whos there v Hull , looks very lively.
|
|
|
|
Post by surge on Nov 25, 2023 20:43:59 GMT
Starts today and an assist. According to my mate whos there v Hull , looks very lively. Bit of a funny assist in that Jamie Patterson was still so far away from the goal....but it was Cooper's clever play which put him in such a good position with defence both short of numbers and backpedaling. |
|
|
|
Post by winsumluzsum on Nov 25, 2023 21:57:19 GMT
Lively performance today, but I don't think he's up to international standard. Nor is Cabango.
|
|
|
|
Post by manulike on Apr 29, 2024 11:21:28 GMT
An interesting interview with our World Cup squad member, last week on Swans TV. Has been playing really well this month.
Certainly comes across as level-headed and well spoken.
|
|
|
|
Post by marsvolta on Apr 29, 2024 11:38:42 GMT
Lively performance today, but I don't think he's up to international standard. Nor is Cabango. Remember when our first World Cup squad announcement since ‘58 was overshadowed by his non inclusion after he put a run of 8 or 10 decent games together in the championship? I still reckon he could do a job for us in the future though, even as a Jonny Williams/Mark Harris type squad player who only mainly gets called up when it’s an extended 26 or 28 man squad. |
|
|
|
Post by iot on Apr 29, 2024 11:46:21 GMT
Lively performance today, but I don't think he's up to international standard. Nor is Cabango. Remember when our first World Cup squad announcement was overshadowed by his non inclusion after he put a run of 8 or 10 decent games together in the championship? I still reckon he could do a job for us in the future though, even as a Jonny Williams/Mark Harris type squad player who only mainly gets called up when it’s an extended 26 or 28 man squad. Yeah - the whole furore about Page selecting Gunter and Joniesta has stuck in people's heads and feeds into this wider narrative about Page's supposed conservatism and 'too loyal' + 'jobs for the boys' jibes. But when you actually unpack it, the omission of Oli Cooper was by far the biggest complaint. He had an average second half to the Championship season last year, hardly featured this season, and is now doing ok-ish at the tail end of the season. Puts it all in context doesn't it. I can definitely see us going full circle in a few years time when Cooper will have established himself as a decent fringe squad option, and everyone's going crazy we're selecting him ahead of a new face with a few weeks' decent form behind him. |
|
|
|
Post by cadno on Apr 29, 2024 12:48:39 GMT
Page’s mistake wasn’t taking Joniesta and Gunter to the World Cup, his mistake was not trusting them and giving them time on the pitch, both would’ve added valuable quality and experience.
Cooper should’ve gone too
Swans have played him out of position on a lot of occasions IMO, he’s a number 10, not a wing back
|
|
|
|
Post by winsumluzsum on Apr 29, 2024 19:59:42 GMT
Cooper's great at winning free kicks, (more per 90 minutes than any other Championship player). But other than the defensive side of things he doesn't offer an awful lot in possession. Can't see him getting many caps.
|
|
|
|
Post by marsvolta on Apr 30, 2024 7:47:47 GMT
Page’s mistake wasn’t taking Joniesta and Gunter to the World Cup, his mistake was not trusting them and giving them time on the pitch, both would’ve added valuable quality and experience. Cooper should’ve gone too Swans have played him out of position on a lot of occasions IMO, he’s a number 10, not a wing back I’m glad Page didn’t put them on the pitch, even for a few mins. They’re legends to most Wales fans who go to the games but they’d have been slaughtered by the social media mob looking for scapegoats. Both players didn’t deserve that. |
|
|
|
Post by manulike on Aug 17, 2024 14:17:48 GMT
Great to see Oli starting again.
Would love to see him push on from his great start a couple of years back
|
|
|
|
Post by surge on Aug 17, 2024 16:07:20 GMT
Most important thing today was Oli Cooper playing for 90 mins and playing well enough over full game to be pleased in his performance.
Previous good performances have been him being an energetic terrier for 60-65 mins before performance levels dipped and/or he was subbed off.
|
|
|
|
Post by manulike on Sept 21, 2024 17:02:59 GMT
Carries on with his great start to the season, for the Swans and for Wales.
Sweet strike from 13-14 yards for his goal. Ran with the ball a good 30 yards to create his own oppertunity.
Played well.
|
|
|
|
Post by winsumluzsum on Sept 21, 2024 19:03:19 GMT
Terrific out if possession and improving in possession. Back to his firm of a couple of seasons ago. Needs to improve further to realistically challenge for a starting place.
|
|
|
|
Post by dragon64 on Sept 21, 2024 23:45:29 GMT
Bellamy really likes him he has said so
will be used for sure under him, we do need to give him a go as CM is an area we are short of options in
|
|
|
|
Post by jbt95 on Sept 22, 2024 6:22:12 GMT
Needs to improve further to realistically challenge for a starting place. Cooper started v Montenegro, and with Ramsey being unavailable for the rest of the Nations League campaign, it’s a big chance for Cooper to make his case to be continually starting. |
|
|
|
Post by allezlesrouges on Sept 23, 2024 20:25:25 GMT
Nice to see that one of our weakest areas has sort of been transformed by virtue of Bellamy turning it into a more attacking position and calling on an area of strength to make that happen
|
|
|
|
Post by talyfan on Nov 2, 2024 12:58:58 GMT
|
|
