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Post by underwood on Sept 26, 2022 12:08:36 GMT
Greece & Cyprus have been giving each other 12 points at the Eurovision Song Contest ever since it started.
Not surprising that the mainland rolled over at the weekend,
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Post by garynysmon on Sept 26, 2022 12:26:39 GMT
A return of one point is poor, let's be honest. You can be unlucky in one off games but when its a constant pattern of single goal defeats then its a bit more than luck isn't it.
Not sure that the almost propaganda-esque way that some Wales fan outlets want to find positives in everything and that every Wesh player, decision and performance is wonderful is entirely healthy either.
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Post by allezlesrouges on Sept 26, 2022 12:31:06 GMT
A return of one point is poor, let's be honest. You can be unlucky in one off games but when its a constant pattern of single goal defeats then its a bit more than luck isn't it. Not sure that the almost propaganda-esque way that some Wales fan outlets want to find positives in everything and that every Wesh player, decision and performance is wonderful is entirely healthy either. If we could have fielded 1st teams in the opening 3 games and still come out with 1 point then I'd say fair enough. As it was, we ran 3 top international sides close with our B, and sometimes C team. It would be extremely harsh to say our overall performances are indicative of some pattern. We're an upper B/lower A team who on another day could have comfortably stayed up if we were given an equitable crack at doing it |
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Post by conwy10 on Sept 26, 2022 12:43:53 GMT
Was going to like this post until you said you wanted to see NI relegated. Can’t see they happening anyway. Greece already up and Cyprus would have to beat Kosovo away and they are pretty decent, and even if they did finish bottom it’s only a play-out place. To be fair to Northern Ireland I watched the two games in that group after the Wales game. I thought Cyprus vGreece would be a fiery passionate match but the stadium was nowhere near full I found it confusing. Then I loaded up N Ire v Kosovo and much to my surprise it’s a sell out. Fair play to them The National Team in Cyprus is not very well supported. It needs a major overhaul there. I don't think it's a lack of fans but a lack of effort from the FA to connect with them. |
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Post by dai on Sept 26, 2022 13:30:17 GMT
A return of one point is poor, let's be honest. You can be unlucky in one off games but when its a constant pattern of single goal defeats then its a bit more than luck isn't it. Not sure that the almost propaganda-esque way that some Wales fan outlets want to find positives in everything and that every Wesh player, decision and performance is wonderful is entirely healthy either.Spot on, and you'll find that sort of mentality on here too. I agree that this has been a poor campaign - which cannot be helped by the complications of the play offs and injuries. But......we should never have let a draw slip twice against the Netherlands. Same against Poland. And we need to beat teams like Poland at home otherwise we'll be going nowhere. I mentioned a few days go that I don't think we're good enough for League A, and last nights loss confirms it. Poland were not great, a bunch of cheating b*stards, but if we cannot beat our like for like at home we don't deserve to be there. |
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Post by allezlesrouges on Sept 26, 2022 13:49:48 GMT
A return of one point is poor, let's be honest. You can be unlucky in one off games but when its a constant pattern of single goal defeats then its a bit more than luck isn't it. Not sure that the almost propaganda-esque way that some Wales fan outlets want to find positives in everything and that every Wesh player, decision and performance is wonderful is entirely healthy either.Spot on, and you'll find that sort of mentality on here too. I agree that this has been a poor campaign - which cannot be helped by the complications of the play offs and injuries. But......we should never have let a draw slip twice against the Netherlands. Same against Poland. And we need to beat teams like Poland at home otherwise we'll be going nowhere. I mentioned a few days go that I don't think we're good enough for League A, and last nights loss confirms it. Poland were not great, a bunch of cheating b*stards, but if we cannot beat our like for like at home we don't deserve to be there. We deserved to be there because we were promoted. We've been unlucky in terms of external forces impacting on our campaign to stay up. Who knows if we would have stayed up if all things were fair? Impossible to say really. I think it's overly harsh to say we deserved relegation, but by the books we have been relegated so for now B level is what we've earned |
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Post by dai on Sept 26, 2022 14:27:52 GMT
Spot on, and you'll find that sort of mentality on here too. I agree that this has been a poor campaign - which cannot be helped by the complications of the play offs and injuries. But......we should never have let a draw slip twice against the Netherlands. Same against Poland. And we need to beat teams like Poland at home otherwise we'll be going nowhere. I mentioned a few days go that I don't think we're good enough for League A, and last nights loss confirms it. Poland were not great, a bunch of cheating b*stards, but if we cannot beat our like for like at home we don't deserve to be there. We deserved to be there because we were promoted. We've been unlucky in terms of external forces impacting on our campaign to stay up. Who knows if we would have stayed up if all things were fair? Impossible to say really. I think it's overly harsh to say we deserved relegation, but by the books we have been relegated so for now B level is what we've earned Never said we didn't deserve to be there. We got promoted to go up, and deserved that, but we've not been good enough to stay there. It's all well and good saying we only just lost to the Netherlands, and somewhat Belgium, but we didn't pick up points. We threw away a commanding position to the Poles away and lost at home to them. That's not good enough. |
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Post by rangers15 on Sept 26, 2022 15:14:51 GMT
its not good enough to stay in League A - and I'm overly fine with that to be honest (especially giving the constraints with the play-off).
what I am happy with is that we were competitive in this campaign (especially giving the constraints with the play-off).
I don't buy into this propaganda/everything is wonderful stuff... and I don't think anyone does. However, I'm still buzzing about getting to the first world cup in my lifetime and I just don't see the point in being overly negative before we leave for Qatar.
Of course we shouldn't have conceded last minute goals, twice. I also think we should go with a 3 in midfield even if it means dropping 2 attacking players to the bench. its football, and Wales... so it'll never be perfect. I've come to terms with that decades ago... so now I'm just enjoying our relative success whilst it last.
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Post by underwood on Sept 26, 2022 15:36:09 GMT
its not good enough to stay in League A - and I'm overly fine with that to be honest (especially giving the constraints with the play-off). what I am happy with is that we were competitive in this campaign (especially giving the constraints with the play-off). I don't buy into this propaganda/everything is wonderful stuff... and I don't think anyone does. However, I'm still buzzing about getting to the first world cup in my lifetime and I just don't see the point in being overly negative before we leave for Qatar. Of course we shouldn't have conceded last minute goals, twice. I also think we should go with a 3 in midfield even if it means dropping 2 attacking players to the bench. its football, and Wales... so it'll never be perfect. I've come to terms with that decades ago... so now I'm just enjoying our relative success whilst it last. Hurrah to that. The last 8 years have been as good as it is going to get EVER. I intend to lap it up for all that it is worth. |
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Post by fiveattheback on Sept 26, 2022 19:15:54 GMT
A return of one point is poor, let's be honest. You can be unlucky in one off games but when its a constant pattern of single goal defeats then its a bit more than luck isn't it. Not sure that the almost propaganda-esque way that some Wales fan outlets want to find positives in everything and that every Wesh player, decision and performance is wonderful is entirely healthy either. You find that with all these social media fan outlets, the forced positivity is really bizarre and unhelpful |
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Post by garynysmon on Sept 27, 2022 0:38:48 GMT
A return of one point is poor, let's be honest. You can be unlucky in one off games but when its a constant pattern of single goal defeats then its a bit more than luck isn't it. Not sure that the almost propaganda-esque way that some Wales fan outlets want to find positives in everything and that every Wesh player, decision and performance is wonderful is entirely healthy either. You find that with all these social media fan outlets, the forced positivity is really bizarre and unhelpful I get being positive and trust me, I don't want to go back to the days when the fanbase was toxic in its negativity. But some silly things are said and our players are bigged up to a level way beyond their ability or even potential. We can support Ben Cabango and hope he does well without trying to make out he's the new Franco Baresi. Its just disingenious, we have players in Leagues 1 and 2 for goodness sake. |
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Post by mrpicton79 on Sept 27, 2022 4:24:51 GMT
A return of one point is poor, let's be honest. You can be unlucky in one off games but when its a constant pattern of single goal defeats then its a bit more than luck isn't it. Not sure that the almost propaganda-esque way that some Wales fan outlets want to find positives in everything and that every Wesh player, decision and performance is wonderful is entirely healthy either. Saying "we only got one point in six games = not good enough" just seems like such a lazy way to summarise the whole NL campaign. It was a very tough group yet we were competitive in every single game, despite being ravaged by key withdrawals throughout. We could have easily picked up a few more draws or even a couple of wins and stayed up. Your avatar suggests, like me and many others, you are old enough to remember the dark days. You know damn well if we'd faced opposition like that during the Mike Smith era we'd have got bent over every game and ended up with a goal difference San Marino would have been ashamed of. I don't understand why people can't just appreciate when we overachieve and experience something of a golden period. I'm sure we'll be back to being ranked amongst the minnows soon enough, then you and Dai will have something to complain about. |
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Post by mrpicton79 on Sept 27, 2022 4:34:31 GMT
And just for the record of course I found last night's result desperately disappointing, but I think League B is still a good standard for us. I maintain we'd have been playing at a lower standard than that had the Nations League existed in previous eras.
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Post by Dubai Reds on Sept 27, 2022 5:41:33 GMT
And just for the record of course I found last night's result desperately disappointing, but I think League B is still a good standard for us. I maintain we'd have been playing at a lower standard than that had the Nations League existed in previous eras. Agreed, In the Mike Smith, Gould, Toshack era we would be also-rans in League C, with any aspiration of getting into League B would have been a success. Currently, we are a League B, with the possibility of getting promoted to League A with a good draw (Finland, Bulgaria and Rep Ireland was very fortunate due to restructuring of the format). In the previous campaign, we lost to Denmark, who are now in the finals. Its a campaign we can write off due to the playoff but if we return to League A soon, I expect us to be better and at least pick up a home win against the 3rd seed (Poland) as a bare minimum, and whether we can pick up a draw or 2 to ensure we don't get relegated. We are in between B and A, we need to look at the likes of Denmark and Switzerland as the benchmark, and that will be our ceiling with a natural cyclical drop-off. We have already achieved that by getting to the Semi-Final with our 2016 squad at its peak. We are not too far off, just waiting for the next peak of the current crop and seeing where that takes us - Could be a World Cup QF, Euro Semi, Nations League Finals. That would be the same as winning a tournament for us, and the same goes for the other "2nd" seed group of Nations. |
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Post by bobbyghoul on Sept 27, 2022 6:27:24 GMT
Sorry but I don't agree we're between league A and B. We're a B team in my opinion, albeit a good B side.
If we have post world cup retirements then we won't threaten promotion to league A for a while unless we get a particularly lucky draw.
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Post by rangers15 on Sept 27, 2022 6:42:51 GMT
You find that with all these social media fan outlets, the forced positivity is really bizarre and unhelpful I get being positive and trust me, I don't want to go back to the days when the fanbase was toxic in its negativity. But some silly things are said and our players are bigged up to a level way beyond their ability or even potential. We can support Ben Cabango and hope he does well without trying to make out he's the new Franco Baresi. Its just disingenious, we have players in Leagues 1 and 2 for goodness sake. well i have never seen anyone make Cabango out to be the new Baresi - I tend to see people saying he has done enough to get into the WC squad but not in our top 4 centre-halves... so not exactly Baresi material. It ridiculous to moan about people going over the top about certain players level and state something so over the top as this. I totally agree some of us (and i include myself in this) can get a bit over-excited about a young prospect coming through, and big up their level. But i think that's part of the hope of international football, esp for a small country like us. |
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Post by iot on Sept 27, 2022 13:01:57 GMT
A return of one point is poor, let's be honest. You can be unlucky in one off games but when its a constant pattern of single goal defeats then its a bit more than luck isn't it. Not sure that the almost propaganda-esque way that some Wales fan outlets want to find positives in everything and that every Wesh player, decision and performance is wonderful is entirely healthy either.I mentioned a few days go that I don't think we're good enough for League A, and last nights loss confirms it. You did mention it a few days ago, to which you received this very god response from pclaude: 'Odd thing to say. 16 in league A. We reached the last 16 of the last euros, and one of 13 UEFA teams to qualify for the wc. I’d say that league A is very much our level.' I notice you didn't reply to that, presumably because you can hardly disagree with such a factual post, and yet you still want to make out that we're not good enough for League A, again trying to gloss over the context of this campaign. Just feels like you're deliberately trying to be negative for some weird reason, even though the weakness of your argument has been so clearly highlighted in pclaude's post. Suspect you're just venting frustration after the loss, but don't get why you'd make the same negative post again after it's been quite clearly shown to be wrong |
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Post by iot on Sept 27, 2022 13:08:59 GMT
Sorry but I don't agree we're between league A and B. We're a B team in my opinion, albeit a good B side. If we have post world cup retirements then we won't threaten promotion to league A for a while unless we get a particularly lucky draw. Again that's overly negative. Look at it objectively, factually - pclaude said it much better than I could. There's 16 teams in the league, all the best metrics suggests we are towards the lower end of the best 16 teams in Europe - be it as one of 13 European qualifiers for the world cup, making it to the last 16 of the Euros, or the world rankings (haven't checked, but pretty sure we're up there or close enough anyway!). |
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Post by iot on Sept 27, 2022 13:15:12 GMT
A return of one point is poor, let's be honest. You can be unlucky in one off games but when its a constant pattern of single goal defeats then its a bit more than luck isn't it. Not sure that the almost propaganda-esque way that some Wales fan outlets want to find positives in everything and that every Wesh player, decision and performance is wonderful is entirely healthy either. Saying "we only got one point in six games = not good enough" just seems like such a lazy way to summarise the whole NL campaign. It was a very tough group yet we were competitive in every single game, despite being ravaged by key withdrawals throughout. We could have easily picked up a few more draws or even a couple of wins and stayed up. Your avatar suggests, like me and many others, you are old enough to remember the dark days. You know damn well if we'd faced opposition like that during the Mike Smith era we'd have got bent over every game and ended up with a goal difference San Marino would have been ashamed of. I don't understand why people can't just appreciate when we overachieve and experience something of a golden period. I'm sure we'll be back to being ranked amongst the minnows soon enough, then you and Dai will have something to complain about. Great post, I'll probably be accused of this 'forced positivity', but it just irks me a bit that people are trying to make out like we're a worse team than we are, and that we don't deserve to be in League A because it completely ignores the context of this campaign and what the factual evidence actually suggests. Particularly annoys me that older fans who remember the dark days are saying this. We will only have a few years in our lives where Wales are competing at such a high level, and it could come to an end very soon (though I don't think it will), so it's disappointing to see fans even within this golden period trying to downplay our achievements. |
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Post by dai on Sept 27, 2022 13:18:08 GMT
I mentioned a few days go that I don't think we're good enough for League A, and last nights loss confirms it. You did mention it a few days ago, to which you received this very god response from pclaude: 'Odd thing to say. 16 in league A. We reached the last 16 of the last euros, and one of 13 UEFA teams to qualify for the wc. I’d say that league A is very much our level.' I notice you didn't reply to that, presumably because you can hardly disagree with such a factual post, and yet you still want to make out that we're not good enough for League A, again trying to gloss over the context of this campaign. Just feels like you're deliberately trying to be negative for some weird reason, even though the weakness of your argument has been so clearly highlighted in pclaude's post. Suspect you're just venting frustration after the loss, but don't get why you'd make the same negative post again after it's been quite clearly shown to be wrong Not trying to be deliberately negative at all, and not venting the loss at all. I'm just a bit more of a realist than some of the fans who've started to believe our own hype. Just because we qualified for League A doesn't make us League A standard. We punch above our weight regularly though. |
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Post by allezlesrouges on Sept 27, 2022 13:24:58 GMT
Sorry but I don't agree we're between league A and B. We're a B team in my opinion, albeit a good B side. If we have post world cup retirements then we won't threaten promotion to league A for a while unless we get a particularly lucky draw. Again that's overly negative. Look at it objectively, factually - pclaude said it much better than I could. There's 16 teams in the league, all the best metrics suggests we are towards the lower end of the best 16 teams in Europe - be it as one of 13 European qualifiers for the world cup, making it to the last 16 of the Euros, or the world rankings (haven't checked, but pretty sure we're up there or close enough anyway!). We're the 12th highest ranked European team in the FIFA world rankings The following are ahead of us; Belgium, France, England, Spain, Italy, Netherlands, Portugal, Denmark, Germany, Croatia, Switzerland We're currently ranked above; Sweden, Serbia, Poland, Ukraine, Czechia, Austria, Russia, Norway, Hungary Feels about right - you could argue about Poland/Sweden/Serbia maybe being higher than us. But that still puts us in the top 16 in Europe (League A standard). We've beaten Ukraine/Czechia/Austria/Hungary recently as well |
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Post by iot on Sept 27, 2022 13:25:50 GMT
You did mention it a few days ago, to which you received this very god response from pclaude: 'Odd thing to say. 16 in league A. We reached the last 16 of the last euros, and one of 13 UEFA teams to qualify for the wc. I’d say that league A is very much our level.' I notice you didn't reply to that, presumably because you can hardly disagree with such a factual post, and yet you still want to make out that we're not good enough for League A, again trying to gloss over the context of this campaign. Just feels like you're deliberately trying to be negative for some weird reason, even though the weakness of your argument has been so clearly highlighted in pclaude's post. Suspect you're just venting frustration after the loss, but don't get why you'd make the same negative post again after it's been quite clearly shown to be wrong Not trying to be deliberately negative at all, and not venting the loss at all. I'm just a bit more of a realist than some of the fans who've started to believe our own hype. Just because we qualified for League A doesn't make us League A standard. If people here genuinely believe that we're in the same bracket as your Germany's, France, Italy's, Netherlands etc, then we're up our own arses even more than I thought. Someone once said that realists are basically pessimists. I suspect that person was a pessimist! I don't think you're being a realist here, because what pclaude said is actually based on facts, whereas your thinking seems to be more based on emotion. 'If people here genuinely believe that we're in the same bracket as your Germany's, France, Italy's, Netherlands etc, then we're up our own arses even more than I thought.' Again that's a very weak argument. It's like saying Aston Villa or Crystal Palace don't deserve to be in the Premier League because they're not in the same bracket as Man City or Liverpool. No one's saying we're as good as France and Germany, we're saying we are good enough for League A, which goes right down to the 16th best team in Europe (in theory). |
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Post by iot on Sept 27, 2022 13:27:11 GMT
Again that's overly negative. Look at it objectively, factually - pclaude said it much better than I could. There's 16 teams in the league, all the best metrics suggests we are towards the lower end of the best 16 teams in Europe - be it as one of 13 European qualifiers for the world cup, making it to the last 16 of the Euros, or the world rankings (haven't checked, but pretty sure we're up there or close enough anyway!). We're the 12th highest ranked European team in the FIFA world rankings The following are ahead of us; Belgium, France, England, Spain, Italy, Netherlands, Portugal, Denmark, Germany, Croatia, Switzerland We're currently ranked above; Sweden, Serbia, Poland, Ukraine, Czechia, Austria, Russia, Norway, Hungary Feels about right - you could argue about Poland/Sweden/Serbia maybe being higher than us. But that still puts us in the top 16 in Europe (League A standard). We've beaten Ukraine/Czechia/Austria/Hungary recently as well Good work - so yeah, on every conceivable metric we are League A standard Edit - well, apart from being relegated to League B of course! |
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Post by dai on Sept 27, 2022 13:27:54 GMT
Not trying to be deliberately negative at all, and not venting the loss at all. I'm just a bit more of a realist than some of the fans who've started to believe our own hype. Just because we qualified for League A doesn't make us League A standard. If people here genuinely believe that we're in the same bracket as your Germany's, France, Italy's, Netherlands etc, then we're up our own arses even more than I thought. Someone once said that realists are basically pessimists. I suspect that person was a pessimist! I don't think you're being a realist here, because what pclaude said is actually based on facts, whereas your thinking seems to be more based on emotion. 'If people here genuinely believe that we're in the same bracket as your Germany's, France, Italy's, Netherlands etc, then we're up our own arses even more than I thought.' Again that's a very weak argument. It's like saying Aston Villa or Crystal Palace don't deserve to be in the Premier League because they're not in the same bracket as Man City or Liverpool. No one's saying we're as good as France and Germany, we're saying we are good enough for League A, which goes right down to the 16th best team in Europe (in theory). If you want to talk about 'factual' stuff. We are the worst place team in League A, we were not good enough to stay in League A, we have been relegated to League B. So our standard is League B. We may qualify for league A again next year, but that doesn't mean we're League A standard. The rankings are a joke and have been for years. |
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Post by bobbyghoul on Sept 27, 2022 13:30:44 GMT
Sorry but I don't agree we're between league A and B. We're a B team in my opinion, albeit a good B side. If we have post world cup retirements then we won't threaten promotion to league A for a while unless we get a particularly lucky draw. Again that's overly negative. Look at it objectively, factually - pclaude said it much better than I could. There's 16 teams in the league, all the best metrics suggests we are towards the lower end of the best 16 teams in Europe - be it as one of 13 European qualifiers for the world cup, making it to the last 16 of the Euros, or the world rankings (haven't checked, but pretty sure we're up there or close enough anyway!). I see where you're coming from. But I don't consider yo-yo teams like Norwich to be top level. We went up and took one point from 18. Yes we had injuries and had to rest players but if you're a tier 1 side you can cope better with that. I'm not complaining though, I'd have bitten your hand off at one point to be even having this debate. I just see the glass as being a little emptier than you. |
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Post by iot on Sept 27, 2022 13:33:10 GMT
Someone once said that realists are basically pessimists. I suspect that person was a pessimist! I don't think you're being a realist here, because what pclaude said is actually based on facts, whereas your thinking seems to be more based on emotion. 'If people here genuinely believe that we're in the same bracket as your Germany's, France, Italy's, Netherlands etc, then we're up our own arses even more than I thought.' Again that's a very weak argument. It's like saying Aston Villa or Crystal Palace don't deserve to be in the Premier League because they're not in the same bracket as Man City or Liverpool. No one's saying we're as good as France and Germany, we're saying we are good enough for League A, which goes right down to the 16th best team in Europe (in theory). If you want to talk about 'factual' stuff. We are the worst place team in League A, we were not good enough to stay in League A, we have been relegated to League B. So our standard is League B. Yes, it ignores a lot of other facts such as the amount of squad withdrawals and the circumstances of the Ukraine game, but fair enough. Even so, with four relegation spots from League A, that makes us about 13th-16th and therefore very well placed to go back up to League A at the next opportunity. I see us as sort of the Fulham of international, European football. We're towards to bottom end of League A, and will go between the top two leagues, but hopefully eventually (like Fulham this season) we'll learn to be more competitive and stay up for a campaign or two. |
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Post by iot on Sept 27, 2022 13:36:01 GMT
Again that's overly negative. Look at it objectively, factually - pclaude said it much better than I could. There's 16 teams in the league, all the best metrics suggests we are towards the lower end of the best 16 teams in Europe - be it as one of 13 European qualifiers for the world cup, making it to the last 16 of the Euros, or the world rankings (haven't checked, but pretty sure we're up there or close enough anyway!). I see where you're coming from. But I don't consider yo-yo teams like Norwich to be top level. We went up and took one point from 18. Yes we had injuries and had to rest players but if you're a tier 1 side you can cope better with that. I'm not complaining though, I'd have bitten your hand off at one point to be even having this debate. I just see the glass as being a little emptier than you. Potentially Norwich, but also potentially a Fulham who are very likely to stay up this season! I don't think that's outside the realms of possibility for us. I genuinely do think we would have finished higher than Poland had we been able to field something close to our first team every game. There will almost always be 2 or 3 players out, but we've been missing 5 or 6 practically every game, and 9 or 10 in a couple of games! |
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Post by dai on Sept 27, 2022 13:39:39 GMT
If you want to talk about 'factual' stuff. We are the worst place team in League A, we were not good enough to stay in League A, we have been relegated to League B. So our standard is League B. and the circumstances of the Ukraine game, but fair enough. Even so, with four relegation spots from League A, that makes us about 13th-16th and therefore very well placed to go back up to League A at the next opportunity. I see us as sort of the Fulham of international, European football. We're towards to bottom end of League A, and will go between the top two leagues, but hopefully eventually (like Fulham this season) we'll learn to be more competitive and stay up for a campaign or two. This has been the norm for probably 5/6 years now. We rarely field a consistent strong starting 11, and odds are that won't change for the foreseeable future. Another factor in my labelling of us as League B. I would also argue to be in League A you need world class players, even 1 (like Poland. And let's be honest, do we actually have world class players at the moment? Can you consider Bale as world class anymore? I don't think so. |
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Post by allezlesrouges on Sept 27, 2022 13:40:35 GMT
We're the 12th highest ranked European team in the FIFA world rankings The following are ahead of us; Belgium, France, England, Spain, Italy, Netherlands, Portugal, Denmark, Germany, Croatia, Switzerland We're currently ranked above; Sweden, Serbia, Poland, Ukraine, Czechia, Austria, Russia, Norway, Hungary Feels about right - you could argue about Poland/Sweden/Serbia maybe being higher than us. But that still puts us in the top 16 in Europe (League A standard). We've beaten Ukraine/Czechia/Austria/Hungary recently as well Good work - so yeah, on every conceivable metric we are League A standard Edit - well, apart from being relegated to League B of course! Well this was my point, we're an in between team because the bottom 4 from League A and the top 4 in League will always rotate by virtue of promotion/relegation. To either say we're not League A standard or that we're established League A standard are both wrong statements. My opinion, we're League A level, but currently not in the league |
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Post by allezlesrouges on Sept 27, 2022 13:43:17 GMT
Someone once said that realists are basically pessimists. I suspect that person was a pessimist! I don't think you're being a realist here, because what pclaude said is actually based on facts, whereas your thinking seems to be more based on emotion. 'If people here genuinely believe that we're in the same bracket as your Germany's, France, Italy's, Netherlands etc, then we're up our own arses even more than I thought.' Again that's a very weak argument. It's like saying Aston Villa or Crystal Palace don't deserve to be in the Premier League because they're not in the same bracket as Man City or Liverpool. No one's saying we're as good as France and Germany, we're saying we are good enough for League A, which goes right down to the 16th best team in Europe (in theory). If you want to talk about 'factual' stuff. We are the worst place team in League A, we were not good enough to stay in League A, we have been relegated to League B. So our standard is League B. We may qualify for league A again next year, but that doesn't mean we're League A standard. The rankings are a joke and have been for years. The rankings have changed in recent years and teams tend to move up and down less. That means if you have sustained success you will be near the top, if you have sustained failure you'll be near the bottom, and if you're inconsistent you'll be in the middle pack. We're near the top for a reason! |
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