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Post by chief on Mar 31, 2022 21:43:22 GMT
17 appearances in the championship this season. I can see absolutely no logical reason not to call him up to an underachieving u21 squad who's qualifying campaign was basically already over. Very frustrating. I can - Paul Bodin! Of course we're assuming that an u21 call up would have prevented the defection. But Bodin is doing a poor job besides this also. |
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Post by rangers15 on Apr 1, 2022 7:53:30 GMT
I'm just being realistic. If he's playing Premier League football at 24 and he wants to play for Wales then this board will be begging him to come back on board I think people are taking Twitter far too seriously I won’t be. Even a small nation like Wales should never think so little of itself as to accept the most pathetic crumbs from anyone else’s plate. seriously? so (and forget social bloody media) you must hate Kieffer playing for us then? A middle-aged (in football terms) Englishman in the lower leagues for the most part, that had absolutely no connection with the Welsh set up beforehand. Ashley Williams? Hal Robson Kanu played for England youth teams. Sam Vokes didn't even know he was eligible for Wales when he was called up to the U21s. "Crumbs" the lot of them... and all welsh legends now. We need to be honest and admit that in all likelihood these guys would have chosen to play for England if they had been given the chance. I'm sorry to labour the point, as I can see that James' Dad has really got your back up, but IMO being a small country means we need to consider every eligible player available to us. They still have to be good enough, and the right personality (thinking not Vinnie Jones) but if they are good enough, fit into the system/squad, fill a hole (like Kieffer for example) then they are more than welcome to play for us. |
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Post by insertname on Apr 1, 2022 10:21:57 GMT
I won’t be. Even a small nation like Wales should never think so little of itself as to accept the most pathetic crumbs from anyone else’s plate. seriously? so (and forget social bloody media) you must hate Kieffer playing for us then? A middle-aged (in football terms) Englishman in the lower leagues for the most part, that had absolutely no connection with the Welsh set up beforehand. Ashley Williams? Hal Robson Kanu played for England youth teams. Sam Vokes didn't even know he was eligible for Wales when he was called up to the U21s. "Crumbs" the lot of them... and all welsh legends now. We need to be honest and admit that in all likelihood these guys would have chosen to play for England if they had been given the chance. I'm sorry to labour the point, as I can see that James' Dad has really got your back up, but IMO being a small country means we need to consider every eligible player available to us. They still have to be good enough, and the right personality (thinking not Vinnie Jones) but if they are good enough, fit into the system/squad, fill a hole (like Kieffer for example) then they are more than welcome to play for us. They are all a completely different case and I have already said that I have no problem with our current policy of letting kids try out for England, the difference is that those kids who have done so don’t appear to have rubbed our noses in it when they did. That’s the issue here. After re-reading the thread I totally forgot the bit where the player himself was also all over Wales calling it “my country”, being all proud to be Welsh and now he and his dad do a bait and switch. None of the players you mention (at least to my knowledge) disrespected the country like that. That’s what it comes down to for me- respect. We have to have some respect surely or will we just let anyone walk all over the privilege of playing for Wales because we are so desperate to (forgive the phrase but it’s how strongly I feel about this) whore ourselves out to anyone who will play for us? We’ve qualified for two Euros and are now a game away from a World Cup, we shouldn’t have to beg for players to declare for Wales any more. We have earned the right for playing for Wales to be an attractive proposition in it’s own right. If Anglo-related players want to declare for Wales later in their career then fine, but the scenario where players and their families who switch back and for whilst making a public song and dance about it is disrespectful and we should not be desperate enough to give people who act like that a second chance because it dilutes the merits of a Welsh cap for everyone else. I’d be seriously pissed off on behalf of any player who has stood by Cymru and turned up only to later be dropped because this kid has turned 24 and decided he’s now Welsh again because he hasn’t had any further phone calls from Southgate. That’s a completely different proposition to, say, Matondo getting dropped because Moore discovers he’s eligible for Wales. |
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Post by hooky on Apr 1, 2022 10:45:36 GMT
Goodness lets ditch our insecurity over England
Reminds me of the pathetic servant chants of 'are you watching England'!
He's a kid, his dad loves his kid before country like we all do!
I'd have him back tomorrow! Whatever anyone says Bodin has not helped us with holding up the talent conveyor belt - we have hardly progressed his development
Who is mentioning Hill who seems to have ditched us for Ireland?
We are lucky to have players like Brennan and lets be honest if England showed him a lot of love when he was 18 or 19 he surely would have been tempted. Lets just be grateful of the players who want to play for us and that give their all. If Jordan decides to do that in the future then all power to him.
I pray him and his dad don't read this thread as this will make their decision easy for them! For God sake a family does not kit themselves all out in Welsh shorts unless they have a strong affinity for a country. Leave them alone!
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Post by rangers15 on Apr 1, 2022 11:39:26 GMT
seriously? so (and forget social bloody media) you must hate Kieffer playing for us then? A middle-aged (in football terms) Englishman in the lower leagues for the most part, that had absolutely no connection with the Welsh set up beforehand. Ashley Williams? Hal Robson Kanu played for England youth teams. Sam Vokes didn't even know he was eligible for Wales when he was called up to the U21s. "Crumbs" the lot of them... and all welsh legends now. We need to be honest and admit that in all likelihood these guys would have chosen to play for England if they had been given the chance. I'm sorry to labour the point, as I can see that James' Dad has really got your back up, but IMO being a small country means we need to consider every eligible player available to us. They still have to be good enough, and the right personality (thinking not Vinnie Jones) but if they are good enough, fit into the system/squad, fill a hole (like Kieffer for example) then they are more than welcome to play for us. They are all a completely different case and I have already said that I have no problem with our current policy of letting kids try out for England, the difference is that those kids who have done so don’t appear to have rubbed our noses in it when they did. That’s the issue here. After re-reading the thread I totally forgot the bit where the player himself was also all over Wales calling it “my country”, being all proud to be Welsh and now he and his dad do a bait and switch. None of the players you mention (at least to my knowledge) disrespected the country like that. That’s what it comes down to for me- respect. We have to have some respect surely or will we just let anyone walk all over the privilege of playing for Wales because we are so desperate to (forgive the phrase but it’s how strongly I feel about this) whore ourselves out to anyone who will play for us? We’ve qualified for two Euros and are now a game away from a World Cup, we shouldn’t have to beg for players to declare for Wales any more. We have earned the right for playing for Wales to be an attractive proposition in it’s own right. If Anglo-related players want to declare for Wales later in their career then fine, but the scenario where players and their families who switch back and for whilst making a public song and dance about it is disrespectful and we should not be desperate enough to give people who act like that a second chance because it dilutes the merits of a Welsh cap for everyone else. I’d be seriously pissed off on behalf of any player who has stood by Cymru and turned up only to later be dropped because this kid has turned 24 and decided he’s now Welsh again because he hasn’t had any further phone calls from Southgate. That’s a completely different proposition to, say, Matondo getting dropped because Moore discovers he’s eligible for Wales. I can see how strongly you feel about this, and you know my feelings (or lack of). I'll just say you don't see the nuance on social media... and luckily that stuff wasn't as prevalent when the older English players I mentioned decided to play for Wales, or there might have been more of the reaction similar to yours. Hal and his parents would have been as proud as anything when he played England age grade and would have probably covered twitter or whatever in pictures of him in his countries kit had it been more of a thing then. He wasn't good enough for England so "whored" himself out to Wales and stopped some Welsh born/breed player from getting a cap. and I for one am glad he did. We are talking about a kid here at the end of the day, and a very proud parent. |
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Post by insertname on Apr 1, 2022 12:21:24 GMT
They are all a completely different case and I have already said that I have no problem with our current policy of letting kids try out for England, the difference is that those kids who have done so don’t appear to have rubbed our noses in it when they did. That’s the issue here. After re-reading the thread I totally forgot the bit where the player himself was also all over Wales calling it “my country”, being all proud to be Welsh and now he and his dad do a bait and switch. None of the players you mention (at least to my knowledge) disrespected the country like that. That’s what it comes down to for me- respect. We have to have some respect surely or will we just let anyone walk all over the privilege of playing for Wales because we are so desperate to (forgive the phrase but it’s how strongly I feel about this) whore ourselves out to anyone who will play for us? We’ve qualified for two Euros and are now a game away from a World Cup, we shouldn’t have to beg for players to declare for Wales any more. We have earned the right for playing for Wales to be an attractive proposition in it’s own right. If Anglo-related players want to declare for Wales later in their career then fine, but the scenario where players and their families who switch back and for whilst making a public song and dance about it is disrespectful and we should not be desperate enough to give people who act like that a second chance because it dilutes the merits of a Welsh cap for everyone else. I’d be seriously pissed off on behalf of any player who has stood by Cymru and turned up only to later be dropped because this kid has turned 24 and decided he’s now Welsh again because he hasn’t had any further phone calls from Southgate. That’s a completely different proposition to, say, Matondo getting dropped because Moore discovers he’s eligible for Wales. I can see how strongly you feel about this, and you know my feelings (or lack of). I'll just say you don't see the nuance on social media... and luckily that stuff wasn't as prevalent when the older English players I mentioned decided to play for Wales, or there might have been more of the reaction similar to yours. Hal and his parents would have been as proud as anything when he played England age grade and would have probably covered twitter or whatever in pictures of him in his countries kit had it been more of a thing then. He wasn't good enough for England so "whored" himself out to Wales and stopped some Welsh born/breed player from getting a cap. and I for one am glad he did. We are talking about a kid here at the end of the day, and a very proud parent. That’s a fair point about the prevalence of social media but the counter argument is, if it’s the done thing to carry on on social media like this why wasn’t there all this song and dance over Brooks or Ampadu or other players who turned out for England in the recent past? It seems to be only this lad who has flirted with social media to such a degree that it leaves a bad taste so on that basis I don’t think it’s a given to assume other older players would have done so too. As I say, if players want to switch to play for England fine. But there is a way of handling it with good PR and whilst I can understand others are all a bit “meh” about this whole situation would anyone argue that it’s been handled well? And yes I do feel strongly about it because it’s about having some pride and standing for something. If we are talking about Bobby Gould’s Wales then yeah, I guess it’s a different story but the place we are in now means that we are not (or should not) be beggars. It seems this lad and his dad have “chosen” England. That’s fair enough and their choice. Where I would get mad is if they then cynically decide that he is no longer “English first” and comes cap in hand to Wales wanting to play for us. That is so degrading to what it means to play for Wales. A few years on, no England senior caps, sees Wales qualifying for Euros and it’s all “England don’t want me so now I’m Welsh and want to take an opportunity off some lad who’s done all the hard work before hand”. I mean, I can’t even…. |
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Post by rangers15 on Apr 1, 2022 12:56:12 GMT
I can see how strongly you feel about this, and you know my feelings (or lack of). I'll just say you don't see the nuance on social media... and luckily that stuff wasn't as prevalent when the older English players I mentioned decided to play for Wales, or there might have been more of the reaction similar to yours. Hal and his parents would have been as proud as anything when he played England age grade and would have probably covered twitter or whatever in pictures of him in his countries kit had it been more of a thing then. He wasn't good enough for England so "whored" himself out to Wales and stopped some Welsh born/breed player from getting a cap. and I for one am glad he did. We are talking about a kid here at the end of the day, and a very proud parent. That’s a fair point about the prevalence of social media but the counter argument is, if it’s the done thing to carry on on social media like this why wasn’t there all this song and dance over Brooks or Ampadu or other players who turned out for England in the recent past? It seems to be only this lad who has flirted with social media to such a degree that it leaves a bad taste so on that basis I don’t think it’s a given to assume other older players would have done so too. As I say, if players want to switch to play for England fine. But there is a way of handling it with good PR and whilst I can understand others are all a bit “meh” about this whole situation would anyone argue that it’s been handled well? And yes I do feel strongly about it because it’s about having some pride and standing for something. If we are talking about Bobby Gould’s Wales then yeah, I guess it’s a different story but the place we are in now means that we are not (or should not) be beggars. It seems this lad and his dad have “chosen” England. That’s fair enough and their choice. Where I would get mad is if they then cynically decide that he is no longer “English first” and comes cap in hand to Wales wanting to play for us. That is so degrading to what it means to play for Wales. A few years on, no England senior caps, sees Wales qualifying for Euros and it’s all “England don’t want me so now I’m Welsh and want to take an opportunity off some lad who’s done all the hard work before hand”. I mean, I can’t even…. one of the fundamental differences in our view is I don't see it as PR necessarily. and you're right the tweets might not age well if Jordan was to actually play for Wales seniors in a few years time. As had been said before... good luck to the lad in whatever he does. This is what I cant get on board with... football is a meritocracy. there are plenty of welsh lads who've done all the hard work but have not got caps because an English (or wherever) born/breed player is better! even the best countries in the world do it... Costa was Brazilian but played in one of the best Spain teams of all time. I doubt Spain gave a shit about being beggars or taking crumbs when they were lifting trophies. |
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Post by insertname on Apr 1, 2022 13:46:52 GMT
That’s a fair point about the prevalence of social media but the counter argument is, if it’s the done thing to carry on on social media like this why wasn’t there all this song and dance over Brooks or Ampadu or other players who turned out for England in the recent past? It seems to be only this lad who has flirted with social media to such a degree that it leaves a bad taste so on that basis I don’t think it’s a given to assume other older players would have done so too. As I say, if players want to switch to play for England fine. But there is a way of handling it with good PR and whilst I can understand others are all a bit “meh” about this whole situation would anyone argue that it’s been handled well? And yes I do feel strongly about it because it’s about having some pride and standing for something. If we are talking about Bobby Gould’s Wales then yeah, I guess it’s a different story but the place we are in now means that we are not (or should not) be beggars. It seems this lad and his dad have “chosen” England. That’s fair enough and their choice. Where I would get mad is if they then cynically decide that he is no longer “English first” and comes cap in hand to Wales wanting to play for us. That is so degrading to what it means to play for Wales. A few years on, no England senior caps, sees Wales qualifying for Euros and it’s all “England don’t want me so now I’m Welsh and want to take an opportunity off some lad who’s done all the hard work before hand”. I mean, I can’t even…. one of the fundamental differences in our view is I don't see it as PR necessarily. and you're right the tweets might not age well if Jordan was to actually play for Wales seniors in a few years time. As had been said before... good luck to the lad in whatever he does. This is what I cant get on board with... football is a meritocracy. there are plenty of welsh lads who've done all the hard work but have not got caps because an English (or wherever) born/breed player is better! even the best countries in the world do it... Costa was Brazilian but played in one of the best Spain teams of all time. I doubt Spain gave a shit about being beggars or taking crumbs when they were lifting trophies. Again though, did Costa pose in a Spain shirt then pose in a Brazil shirt then go back to a Spain shirt? You seem to be conflating my issue that it’s one of a switch of allegiance when my point is that it’s the way it’s been handled that is the problem and it could be very problematic for the FAW in the future if he decides he is Welsh again because people will dig up those tweets and he will be hounded for it. As an analogy, that I don’t think other people will relate to but to me it feels appropriate, Nathan Blake was on the radio after the Austria game talking about how it wasn’t too long ago that we used to train on muddy fields and that it was frowned upon if you didn’t go out drinking. Then we got more professional and developed some standards and some pride in how we operated. For me this is just an extension of those standards: We are no longer ragbag Wales and if you want to try out for England, fine, but don’t do so in a crass way because we have some standards in who we will allow the privilege of representing Wales. Although it’s interesting you mention Costa, because Wiki had this to say about Brazil’s response to his request to change allegiance: On 29 October 2013, Costa declared that he wished to play international football for Spain, sending a letter to the Brazilian Football Confederation (CBF).[158] Following the news, Scolari commented, "A Brazilian player who refuses to wear the shirt of the Brazilian national team and compete in a World Cup in your country is automatically withdrawn. He is turning his back on a dream of millions, to represent our national team, the five-time champions in a World Cup in Brazil."[159] The CBF judicial director, Carlos Eugênio Lopes, said, "It's obvious that the reason he made that choice was financial. The chairman [of the CBF, José Maria Marin] authorised me to open a legal action at the Justice Ministry requesting that he loses his Brazilian citizenship, which Diego Costa has rejected... The chairman told me that Costa has proved he's not fit to be part of the Scolari family, that he would contaminate the family because he's not committed to Brazil, but to Spain. He rejected his Brazilian citizenship. Marin has asked me to study the situation deeply in order to keep him from ever playing for Spain. He told me that, from now on, Costa is 'persona non grata' at the national team and that the players themselves wouldn't welcome him because of that episode".[160] That’s a very strong reaction to being snubbed, maybe you should write to the Brazil FA and tell them that they should just let it go and not have any pride in their federation  |
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Post by rangers15 on Apr 1, 2022 14:21:59 GMT
one of the fundamental differences in our view is I don't see it as PR necessarily. and you're right the tweets might not age well if Jordan was to actually play for Wales seniors in a few years time. As had been said before... good luck to the lad in whatever he does. This is what I cant get on board with... football is a meritocracy. there are plenty of welsh lads who've done all the hard work but have not got caps because an English (or wherever) born/breed player is better! even the best countries in the world do it... Costa was Brazilian but played in one of the best Spain teams of all time. I doubt Spain gave a shit about being beggars or taking crumbs when they were lifting trophies. Again though, did Costa pose in a Spain shirt then pose in a Brazil shirt then go back to a Spain shirt? You seem to be conflating my issue that it’s one of a switch of allegiance when my point is that it’s the way it’s been handled that is the problem and it could be very problematic for the FAW in the future if he decides he is Welsh again because people will dig up those tweets and he will be hounded for it. As an analogy, that I don’t think other people will relate to but to me it feels appropriate, Nathan Blake was on the radio after the Austria game talking about how it wasn’t too long ago that we used to train on muddy fields and that it was frowned upon if you didn’t go out drinking. Then we got more professional and developed some standards and some pride in how we operated. For me this is just an extension of those standards: We are no longer ragbag Wales and if you want to try out for England, fine, but don’t do so in a crass way because we have some standards in who we will allow the privilege of representing Wales. Although it’s interesting you mention Costa, because Wiki had this to say about Brazil’s response to his request to change allegiance: On 29 October 2013, Costa declared that he wished to play international football for Spain, sending a letter to the Brazilian Football Confederation (CBF).[158] Following the news, Scolari commented, "A Brazilian player who refuses to wear the shirt of the Brazilian national team and compete in a World Cup in your country is automatically withdrawn. He is turning his back on a dream of millions, to represent our national team, the five-time champions in a World Cup in Brazil."[159] The CBF judicial director, Carlos Eugênio Lopes, said, "It's obvious that the reason he made that choice was financial. The chairman [of the CBF, José Maria Marin] authorised me to open a legal action at the Justice Ministry requesting that he loses his Brazilian citizenship, which Diego Costa has rejected... The chairman told me that Costa has proved he's not fit to be part of the Scolari family, that he would contaminate the family because he's not committed to Brazil, but to Spain. He rejected his Brazilian citizenship. Marin has asked me to study the situation deeply in order to keep him from ever playing for Spain. He told me that, from now on, Costa is 'persona non grata' at the national team and that the players themselves wouldn't welcome him because of that episode".[160] That’s a very strong reaction to being snubbed, maybe you should write to the Brazil FA and tell them that they should just let it go and not have any pride in their federation  ha - i dont know where to start with that!!!! What i would say is if the FAW reacted like the CBF did in the costa case I would unbearably embarrassed. You must admit that the Brazilian FA is the one of the last countries we should be using as a shining example of how to behave. If Mooney was to insist that James' welsh heritage be denied because he played for another country that he has connection to I would be disgusted. I get the switching is your problem, but mainly the reaction of James and his Dad on social media because you feel they've rubbed your face in it.... because Brooks doing wasn't a problem I guess (And I know the whole story of he didn't get the call from Wales so went to England story - that was good PR!). But my point is people can have allegiance to more than one country and feel the same pride in representing either or both. I just feel you've taken this all a bit too personally. And in the spirit of this forum I can admit that I took your reaction to this situation personally because of my own circumstances. If James is instrumental in getting Wales to a world cup in 4 or 8 years time i'm sure the vast majority of Welsh wont give a flying f**k that he played for England U21s or about a few twitter posts from when before he was an adult. |
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Post by insertname on Apr 1, 2022 15:23:01 GMT
Again though, did Costa pose in a Spain shirt then pose in a Brazil shirt then go back to a Spain shirt? You seem to be conflating my issue that it’s one of a switch of allegiance when my point is that it’s the way it’s been handled that is the problem and it could be very problematic for the FAW in the future if he decides he is Welsh again because people will dig up those tweets and he will be hounded for it. As an analogy, that I don’t think other people will relate to but to me it feels appropriate, Nathan Blake was on the radio after the Austria game talking about how it wasn’t too long ago that we used to train on muddy fields and that it was frowned upon if you didn’t go out drinking. Then we got more professional and developed some standards and some pride in how we operated. For me this is just an extension of those standards: We are no longer ragbag Wales and if you want to try out for England, fine, but don’t do so in a crass way because we have some standards in who we will allow the privilege of representing Wales. Although it’s interesting you mention Costa, because Wiki had this to say about Brazil’s response to his request to change allegiance: On 29 October 2013, Costa declared that he wished to play international football for Spain, sending a letter to the Brazilian Football Confederation (CBF).[158] Following the news, Scolari commented, "A Brazilian player who refuses to wear the shirt of the Brazilian national team and compete in a World Cup in your country is automatically withdrawn. He is turning his back on a dream of millions, to represent our national team, the five-time champions in a World Cup in Brazil."[159] The CBF judicial director, Carlos Eugênio Lopes, said, "It's obvious that the reason he made that choice was financial. The chairman [of the CBF, José Maria Marin] authorised me to open a legal action at the Justice Ministry requesting that he loses his Brazilian citizenship, which Diego Costa has rejected... The chairman told me that Costa has proved he's not fit to be part of the Scolari family, that he would contaminate the family because he's not committed to Brazil, but to Spain. He rejected his Brazilian citizenship. Marin has asked me to study the situation deeply in order to keep him from ever playing for Spain. He told me that, from now on, Costa is 'persona non grata' at the national team and that the players themselves wouldn't welcome him because of that episode".[160] That’s a very strong reaction to being snubbed, maybe you should write to the Brazil FA and tell them that they should just let it go and not have any pride in their federation ha - i dont know where to start with that!!!! What i would say is if the FAW reacted like the CBF did in the costa case I would unbearably embarrassed. You must admit that the Brazilian FA is the one of the last countries we should be using as a shining example of how to behave. If Mooney was to insist that James' welsh heritage be denied because he played for another country that he has connection to I would be disgusted. I get the switching is your problem, but mainly the reaction of James and his Dad on social media because you feel they've rubbed your face in it.... because Brooks doing wasn't a problem I guess (And I know the whole story of he didn't get the call from Wales so went to England story - that was good PR!). But my point is people can have allegiance to more than one country and feel the same pride in representing either or both. I just feel you've taken this all a bit too personally. And in the spirit of this forum I can admit that I took your reaction to this situation personally because of my own circumstances. If James is instrumental in getting Wales to a world cup in 4 or 8 years time i'm sure the vast majority of Welsh wont give a flying f**k that he played for England U21s or about a few twitter posts from when before he was an adult. What the Brazil/Costa issue shows is that it’s not just me that the subject of national allegiance brings out a strong reaction from. The people at the Brazilian FA obviously have very strong ideas on their national brand and the privilege that playing for Brazil confers. I don’t see it as any different for Wales really. There has to be a baseline standard of behaviour. I don’t know about that scenario you posted, wasn’t there a fuss on here a while back over a Welsh player who had been pictured in an England shirt?  I’d probably end up sitting on my hands if he was to turn out for Wales. I don’t expect anyone else to do the same, to me calling up someone who has done a decent job of burning their bridge on social media would make it very hard to cheer them on in a Welsh shirt. I mean again, he hasn’t indicated he’s going to switch back so hopefully this is all just hypothetical. In a more general sense I also take quite a dim view of people who horse trade their nationality at international level, like Diego Costa. Just commit to a country and stand by it, it makes it like club football otherwise. Players transferring in and out to enhance their career *cough* Declan Rice *cough*. Reading about his situation just makes me sad for international football, that players have to be courted like they are signing for a club. As you alluded to I’m probably falling into the trap of losing my objectivity and only speaking from my own experience. I was born in England but my dad made me very aware of my Welsh heritage so it was natural for me when playing football in the playground and everyone else was wanting to be Gascoigne or Lineker that I was Dave Phillips. I just don’t get how people don’t have a full command of what nationality they feel strongest about by the time they get to 17 or so. |
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Post by iot on Apr 1, 2022 15:47:04 GMT
ha - i dont know where to start with that!!!! What i would say is if the FAW reacted like the CBF did in the costa case I would unbearably embarrassed. You must admit that the Brazilian FA is the one of the last countries we should be using as a shining example of how to behave. If Mooney was to insist that James' welsh heritage be denied because he played for another country that he has connection to I would be disgusted. I get the switching is your problem, but mainly the reaction of James and his Dad on social media because you feel they've rubbed your face in it.... because Brooks doing wasn't a problem I guess (And I know the whole story of he didn't get the call from Wales so went to England story - that was good PR!). But my point is people can have allegiance to more than one country and feel the same pride in representing either or both. I just feel you've taken this all a bit too personally. And in the spirit of this forum I can admit that I took your reaction to this situation personally because of my own circumstances. If James is instrumental in getting Wales to a world cup in 4 or 8 years time i'm sure the vast majority of Welsh wont give a flying f**k that he played for England U21s or about a few twitter posts from when before he was an adult. What the Brazil/Costa issue shows is that it’s not just me that the subject of national allegiance brings out a strong reaction from. The people at the Brazilian FA obviously have very strong ideas on their national brand and the privilege that playing for Brazil confers. I don’t see it as any different for Wales really. There has to be a baseline standard of behaviour. I don’t know about that scenario you posted, wasn’t there a fuss on here a while back over a Welsh player who had been pictured in an England shirt?  I’d probably end up sitting on my hands if he was to turn out for Wales. I don’t expect anyone else to do the same, to me calling up someone who has done a decent job of burning their bridge on social media would make it very hard to cheer them on in a Welsh shirt. I mean again, he hasn’t indicated he’s going to switch back so hopefully this is all just hypothetical. In a more general sense I also take quite a dim view of people who horse trade their nationality at international level, like Diego Costa. Just commit to a country and stand by it, it makes it like club football otherwise. Players transferring in and out to enhance their career *cough* Declan Rice *cough*. Reading about his situation just makes me sad for international football, that players have to be courted like they are signing for a club. As you alluded to I’m probably falling into the trap of losing my objectivity and only speaking from my own experience. I was born in England but my dad made me very aware of my Welsh heritage so it was natural for me when playing football in the playground and everyone else was wanting to be Gascoigne or Lineker that I was Dave Phillips. I just don’t get how people don’t have a full command of what nationality they feel strongest about by the time they get to 17 or so. Many people are fiercely proud of their dual / multiple nationality, others have a more traditional view of their nationality. Both are ok, but I don't think either school of thought should be dismissed by others. If James and his family are very proud of their Welsh and English heritage, and have made a song and dance on Twitter over it, I don't think it's right for people to take a dim view on them for that. If it's been done as a PR stunt or worse still using Wales to just build their profile and in a cynical way to peak England's interest, then that's a different story. But there's no way for us to know what their true motivations are, so I prefer to give them the benefit of doubt. |
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Post by insertname on Apr 1, 2022 16:02:36 GMT
^^^ I think you’ve touched on why it bothers me so much in this case. The “over sharing” shall we say, on social media, is what tilts it for me from genuine dual nationality stuff to more cynical opportunism. We don’t know what happens in the background on these things and knowing what we already do about the world of football and how players use interest from other clubs as leverage it’s hard not to be cynical about this case.
It’s conspicuous that he’s vaulted from the weaker team to the better placed one. Again it’s a different look if he had done what that lad at Cardiff did by committing to a relatively minor African nation, it’s far easier to see that as being where the heart lies.
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Post by rangers15 on Apr 1, 2022 16:25:28 GMT
if nothing else I've enjoyed the debate... and a good distraction from work.
I'm about to crack open a beer and watch a world cup draw with the Wales (sort of) in it.
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Post by insertname on Apr 1, 2022 16:35:25 GMT
if nothing else I've enjoyed the debate... and a good distraction from work. I'm about to crack open a beer and watch a world cup draw with the Wales (sort of) in it. Yeah that’s how it should be- disagreeing but at least in a good natured way. And yeah it kills some time waiting for this sodding draw! Come on European Play off winner! |
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Post by georgetm1 on Apr 2, 2022 7:21:19 GMT
Goodness lets ditch our insecurity over England Reminds me of the pathetic servant chants of 'are you watching England'! He's a kid, his dad loves his kid before country like we all do! I'd have him back tomorrow! Whatever anyone says Bodin has not helped us with holding up the talent conveyor belt - we have hardly progressed his development Who is mentioning Hill who seems to have ditched us for Ireland? We are lucky to have players like Brennan and lets be honest if England showed him a lot of love when he was 18 or 19 he surely would have been tempted. Lets just be grateful of the players who want to play for us and that give their all. If Jordan decides to do that in the future then all power to him. I pray him and his dad don't read this thread as this will make their decision easy for them! For God sake a family does not kit themselves all out in Welsh shorts unless they have a strong affinity for a country. Leave them alone! Its a bit difficult when we have been under occupation by them for 800 years. |
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Post by manulike on Apr 3, 2022 13:45:37 GMT
Has Jordan injured himself on England duty?
Not in today's squad?
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Post by insertname on Apr 3, 2022 14:07:19 GMT
Has Jordan injured himself on England duty? Not in today's squad? It was suggested upthread that he is literally just injury cover and not really considered an actual first team squad member. |
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Post by dragonsoccer on Apr 3, 2022 14:08:57 GMT
played for the U23s on Friday evening against Fulham, were Luke Harris played and scored. Harris has been training with the Fulham first team as well
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Post by iot on Apr 3, 2022 19:24:13 GMT
played for the U23s on Friday evening against Fulham, were Luke Harris played and scored. Harris has been training with the Fulham first team as well Harris is the much better prospect. We really should fast track him into the u21s though, he's proving with Fulham that he's one of the stars at that level despite only turning 17 today! |
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Post by allezlesrouges on Apr 3, 2022 21:42:27 GMT
played for the U23s on Friday evening against Fulham, were Luke Harris played and scored. Harris has been training with the Fulham first team as well Great to hear, exciting player! |
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Post by dai on Jun 12, 2022 17:39:25 GMT
Saw him mentioned in the Tom Hill thread, and was wondering what the latest is with him? Noticed he hadn't been called up to any of the England squads this international window.
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Post by insertname on Jun 12, 2022 18:15:51 GMT
Saw him mentioned in the Tom Hill thread, and was wondering what the latest is with him? Noticed he hadn't been called up to any of the England squads this international window. As said above, the feeling was he was just injury cover and isn’t a strong contender to go far in an England shirt. Maybe he’ll change his mind in a few years. I’d struggle with that, perhaps not if it was a genuine swing to Welshness but it would most likely be because England give him the boot and international football with Wales would be a good shot in the arm for his career. |
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Post by dai on Jun 12, 2022 18:17:50 GMT
Saw him mentioned in the Tom Hill thread, and was wondering what the latest is with him? Noticed he hadn't been called up to any of the England squads this international window. As said above, the feeling was he was just injury cover and isn’t a strong contender to go far in an England shirt. Maybe he’ll change his mind in a few years. I’d struggle with that, perhaps not if it was a genuine swing to Welshness but it would most likely be because England give him the boot and international football with Wales would be a good shot in the arm for his career. Oh right. I misunderstood. I thought you were talking about him being injury cover for Birmingham - which I think has been the case as well. |
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Post by insertname on Jun 12, 2022 18:23:42 GMT
As said above, the feeling was he was just injury cover and isn’t a strong contender to go far in an England shirt. Maybe he’ll change his mind in a few years. I’d struggle with that, perhaps not if it was a genuine swing to Welshness but it would most likely be because England give him the boot and international football with Wales would be a good shot in the arm for his career. Oh right. I misunderstood. I thought you were talking about him being injury cover for Birmingham - which I think has been the case as well. I think it’s both. Basically iirc he’s been a bit overrated on here because he’s played a few senior club games (as cover) and been called up by England. Long way to go yet before he should be lamented as one that got away |
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Post by mortillsy on Jun 12, 2022 22:30:06 GMT
Saw him mentioned in the Tom Hill thread, and was wondering what the latest is with him? Noticed he hadn't been called up to any of the England squads this international window. Currently on holiday with his family so missed out on a call up this time around, but, heading back to play for Wales u21s/19s according to a Bodin. Still hasn’t played in a qualifier for either country so is still free to chose. |
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Post by redwallnews on Jul 15, 2022 18:32:24 GMT
Signed a new deal with Birmingham.
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Post by fiveattheback on Jul 15, 2022 18:56:03 GMT
3 year deal, Birmingham seem to be a bit of a mess at the moment so he could get plenty of opportunities this season
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Post by jimexotic on Jul 16, 2022 23:43:33 GMT
I think a couple of kids may have jumped in front of him in the queue to get in the Wales squad.
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Post by talyfan on Jul 17, 2022 6:20:00 GMT
I think a couple of kids may have jumped in front of him in the queue to get in the Wales squad. I don't think him, I think in the next round of fixtures beyond the World Cup the likes of Morrell, Smith and Levitt might find their opportunities limited if the likes of James, Savage etc. can feature for their clubs more. Will heavily caveat we've been in similar position before where we have promising youngsters earmarked to take us to that next level but ultimately don't reach the heights we predicted them to reach. Levitt and Smith are case in point of this. One is playing in Scotland and the other barely played in League One last season. Not to say they can't and won't have good careers but again might not have been the highest level we expected of them. |
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Post by insertname on Jul 17, 2022 13:06:30 GMT
I think a couple of kids may have jumped in front of him in the queue to get in the Wales squad. I don't think him, I think in the next round of fixtures beyond the World Cup the likes of Morrell, Smith and Levitt might find their opportunities limited if the likes of James, Savage etc. can feature for their clubs more. Will heavily caveat we've been in similar position before where we have promising youngsters earmarked to take us to that next level but ultimately don't reach the heights we predicted them to reach. Levitt and Smith are case in point of this. One is playing in Scotland and the other barely played in League One last season. Not to say they can't and won't have good careers but again might not have been the highest level we expected of them. It’s pretty grim though the thought of bombing out players who have been wholeheartedly committed to us in favour of someone who has flirted with and blown kisses at England in such a vulgar public display. Of course he isn’t the first and certainly won’t be the last to do so, but it’s the public “rubbing noses in it” manner of it all that will make me feel very annoyed on behalf of the players who will miss out to accommodate this one. |
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I’d probably end up sitting on my hands if he was to turn out for Wales. I don’t expect anyone else to do the same, to me calling up someone who has done a decent job of burning their bridge on social media would make it very hard to cheer them on in a Welsh shirt.
I’d probably end up sitting on my hands if he was to turn out for Wales. I don’t expect anyone else to do the same, to me calling up someone who has done a decent job of burning their bridge on social media would make it very hard to cheer them on in a Welsh shirt.
