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Post by robin1864 on Mar 28, 2022 19:18:37 GMT
Actually digging back through his dad's twitter account, there's a few Welsh based tweets, this when the Euro's was on. I've also seen a tweet on his dad's account where he refers to Wales as 'home' when talking about living in Hereford. What the hell's happened then? I'm wondering if he's been tapped up by England, and made a decision based on the fact he can't get into a seriously shite Welsh u20's squad. I don't like to blame Bodin and the coaches for this one, as it may be a genuine change of heart, but a country our size can't afford to lose these sort of players. Get rid of them now. Tournament Welshmen? You wouldn't catch them cheering us on in a dreary qualifier against Estonia. |
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Post by insertname on Mar 28, 2022 19:51:26 GMT
There’s obviously been a lot of horse trading going on in the background which we aren’t privy too. Most likely a bit of agent pimping to boot.
If the selectors of the youth squads have caught wind of this then imo they were right not to call him up. It all seems very opportunistic on the part of the player and his old man and there may even have been some brinksmanship too- promoting Wales etc to force England’s hand and a better deal.
I really don’t like the way these players are Welsh one minute, English the next. Club football should be where the mercenaries operate, international football should be about where your heart lies. As such these kids should be free to commit as and when they see fit not pounced upon as soon as possible to try and lock them down so they have the space to make the decision based on a heritage they have pride in rather than career opportunism. As it is I don’t think the way this has panned out has done this guy many favours- he comes out of it looking worse than anyone. It’s still his choice though so leave him to it I say. If he makes anything of himself we’ll probably see him move from Celtic to Rangers one day, or some similar such move.
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Post by vaulksthrowfanclub on Mar 30, 2022 12:29:51 GMT
8 minutes for Jordan last night for England’s u20s. 10 mins total across their 2 games.
Big choice ahead for him. Wish him all the best in whichever direction he chooses.
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Post by dai on Mar 30, 2022 13:53:50 GMT
Tweet from him his dad again:
Sorry, but how can someone (both him and his dad) go from tweeting about Wales to all of a sudden be all about England? I was wrong earlier in the thread, he has played for a lot of FAW youth setups. His dad even has strong links with Wales and Welsh clubs.
Either he's now grown up and feels English or they've both been using Wales all along. Strange.
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Post by iot on Mar 30, 2022 14:07:27 GMT
Sorry, but how can someone (both him and his dad) go from tweeting about Wales to all of a sudden be all about England? I was wrong earlier in the thread, he has played for a lot of FAW youth setups. His dad even has strong links with Wales and Welsh clubs. Either he's now grown up and feels English or they've both been using Wales all along. Strange. I don't think they're the only two possible explanations. He / they might just feel part Welsh part English, so representing either are proud moments for them. He might feel primarily English, but also proud of his Welsh roots, so is proud to represent us if that's his only option, but then choose England when they come calling. I don't think he can be blamed for that. |
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Post by insertname on Mar 30, 2022 14:18:47 GMT
Tweet from him his dad again: Sorry, but how can someone (both him and his dad) go from tweeting about Wales to all of a sudden be all about England? I was wrong earlier in the thread, he has played for a lot of FAW youth setups. His dad even has strong links with Wales and Welsh clubs. Either he's now grown up and feels English or they've both been using Wales all along. Strange. He needs to wind his neck in, he was Welsh 10 minutes ago. Pretty shameless |
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Post by insertname on Mar 30, 2022 14:22:01 GMT
Sorry, but how can someone (both him and his dad) go from tweeting about Wales to all of a sudden be all about England? I was wrong earlier in the thread, he has played for a lot of FAW youth setups. His dad even has strong links with Wales and Welsh clubs. Either he's now grown up and feels English or they've both been using Wales all along. Strange. I don't think they're the only two possible explanations. He / they might just feel part Welsh part English, so representing either are proud moments for them. He might feel primarily English, but also proud of his Welsh roots, so is proud to represent us if that's his only option, but then choose England when they come calling. I don't think he can be blamed for that. That sounds like a PC way of saying “he’ll take the best offer available to him”. |
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Post by jimexotic on Mar 30, 2022 14:28:15 GMT
I'm going to stick my neck out and say this early on that he'll never play for the full England side.
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Post by insertname on Mar 30, 2022 14:32:35 GMT
I'm going to stick my neck out and say this early on that he'll never play for the full England side. As long as he’s made his mind up for the last time about who he wants to play for then whether he wins a full cap or not is neither here nor there. A proud Englishman like himself would never dream of playing for anyone else even if he had the opportunity, I’m sure…. |
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Post by rangers15 on Mar 30, 2022 14:34:05 GMT
I find I mind boggling, esp considering the amount of anglos we have in our squad, that some people still don't realise you can have an affinity/link/love to more than 1 country.
he is still a kid FFS - leave him be. if he would rather play for England over wales good luck to him. If in 2/3 years time he doesn't get near the eng set up, I would still happily welcome him back to us (if he was good enough).
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Post by insertname on Mar 30, 2022 14:44:57 GMT
I find I mind boggling, esp considering the amount of anglos we have in our squad, that some people still don't realise you can have an affinity/link/love to more than 1 country. he is still a kid FFS - leave him be. if he would rather play for England over wales good luck to him. If in 2/3 years time he doesn't get near the eng set up, I would still happily welcome him back to us (if he was good enough). That’s as maybe (although I was brought up with a strong sense of national identity so for me it’s weird to countenance that other people’s families have a wishy washy approach to their heritage) but even then there is a way to go about such things with class and grace…living out your switch of allegiance on social media fails that yardstick by a long shot. |
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Post by dai on Mar 30, 2022 14:57:52 GMT
I find I mind boggling, esp considering the amount of anglos we have in our squad, that some people still don't realise you can have an affinity/link/love to more than 1 country. he is still a kid FFS - leave him be. if he would rather play for England over wales good luck to him. If in 2/3 years time he doesn't get near the eng set up, I would still happily welcome him back to us (if he was good enough). I get that, 17 is still incredibly young - I was still building tree houses at that age. But the one thing I don't get is how his father, being a mature adult, was one minute lauding all his Welsh achievements, to now celebrating his sons Englishness. It's just very strange. His father seems to have a reasonably strong Welsh link, and not to be sexist, but as a young man you'd normally look to your old man for guidance when it comes to sport and hobbies. Maybe they as a family do have an affinity with Wales and England, but the way it's been played on twitter is a bit crass imo. Especially when they've (or he, the players) had lots of Welsh support on twitter in the past. |
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Post by rangers15 on Mar 31, 2022 8:04:42 GMT
I find I mind boggling, esp considering the amount of anglos we have in our squad, that some people still don't realise you can have an affinity/link/love to more than 1 country. he is still a kid FFS - leave him be. if he would rather play for England over wales good luck to him. If in 2/3 years time he doesn't get near the eng set up, I would still happily welcome him back to us (if he was good enough). That’s as maybe (although I was brought up with a strong sense of national identity so for me it’s weird to countenance that other people’s families have a wishy washy approach to their heritage) but even then there is a way to go about such things with class and grace…living out your switch of allegiance on social media fails that yardstick by a long shot. I too was brought up with very strong sense of national identity, part of which was hating the English (generally and not just at sport)! however, both my children are born and live in England, and whilst they are brought up very much Welsh, to them it makes no sense when they see their parents happy when England lost to Italy or Croatia or whoever. I'm sure they will both grow up with a strong connection to England and I don't think its my place to force it out of them. if that is "wishy washy" then so be it. So if either of my kids went on to represent either country (or both) at any sport, would I be singing it from the hills! personally i see has nothing to do with allegiance but more to do with pride in your kids achievement. |
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Post by rangers15 on Mar 31, 2022 8:10:00 GMT
I find I mind boggling, esp considering the amount of anglos we have in our squad, that some people still don't realise you can have an affinity/link/love to more than 1 country. he is still a kid FFS - leave him be. if he would rather play for England over wales good luck to him. If in 2/3 years time he doesn't get near the eng set up, I would still happily welcome him back to us (if he was good enough). I get that, 17 is still incredibly young - I was still building tree houses at that age. But the one thing I don't get is how his father, being a mature adult, was one minute lauding all his Welsh achievements, to now celebrating his sons Englishness. It's just very strange. His father seems to have a reasonably strong Welsh link, and not to be sexist, but as a young man you'd normally look to your old man for guidance when it comes to sport and hobbies. Maybe they as a family do have an affinity with Wales and England, but the way it's been played on twitter is a bit crass imo. Especially when they've (or he, the players) had lots of Welsh support on twitter in the past. I think it might be more to do with parental pride for his sons achievements rather celebrating "englishness". but hey ho, that my opinion. I wonder if there would be this backlash if the other country wasn't England? |
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Post by dai on Mar 31, 2022 8:21:41 GMT
I get that, 17 is still incredibly young - I was still building tree houses at that age. But the one thing I don't get is how his father, being a mature adult, was one minute lauding all his Welsh achievements, to now celebrating his sons Englishness. It's just very strange. His father seems to have a reasonably strong Welsh link, and not to be sexist, but as a young man you'd normally look to your old man for guidance when it comes to sport and hobbies. Maybe they as a family do have an affinity with Wales and England, but the way it's been played on twitter is a bit crass imo. Especially when they've (or he, the players) had lots of Welsh support on twitter in the past. I think it might be more to do with parental pride for his sons achievements rather celebrating "englishness". but hey ho, that my opinion. I wonder if there would be this backlash if the other country wasn't England? Maybe you're right. If they don't feel strongly about either nationality, then fair enough. But the father seems more elated by the English call up than his Wales achievements. Regarding your second comment. I think it depends on the country, but obviously there's going to be backlash that it's England more than anyone else. They have one of the biggest pools of players to choose from in the world, probably 50 times that of ours. Losing a player to your bitter rivals is of course going to create some backlash. |
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Post by iot on Mar 31, 2022 9:04:32 GMT
That’s as maybe (although I was brought up with a strong sense of national identity so for me it’s weird to countenance that other people’s families have a wishy washy approach to their heritage) but even then there is a way to go about such things with class and grace…living out your switch of allegiance on social media fails that yardstick by a long shot. I too was brought up with very strong sense of national identity, part of which was hating the English (generally and not just at sport)! however, both my children are born and live in England, and whilst they are brought up very much Welsh, to them it makes no sense when they see their parents happy when England lost to Italy or Croatia or whoever. I'm sure they will both grow up with a strong connection to England and I don't think its my place to force it out of them. if that is "wishy washy" then so be it. So if either of my kids went on to represent either country (or both) at any sport, would I be singing it from the hills! personally i see has nothing to do with allegiance but more to do with pride in your kids achievement. Good post, and as a nation we need to get out of that sort of mentality, I think it holds us back. Thank God the 'Are you watching In-Ger-Land' chants have now stopped. |
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Post by insertname on Mar 31, 2022 13:32:22 GMT
I too was brought up with very strong sense of national identity, part of which was hating the English (generally and not just at sport)! however, both my children are born and live in England, and whilst they are brought up very much Welsh, to them it makes no sense when they see their parents happy when England lost to Italy or Croatia or whoever. I'm sure they will both grow up with a strong connection to England and I don't think its my place to force it out of them. if that is "wishy washy" then so be it. So if either of my kids went on to represent either country (or both) at any sport, would I be singing it from the hills! personally i see has nothing to do with allegiance but more to do with pride in your kids achievement. Good post, and as a nation we need to get out of that sort of mentality, I think it holds us back. Thank God the 'Are you watching In-Ger-Land' chants have now stopped. That’s a red herring, it’s not so much England, it’s the complete volte face from the old man. He seems to be acting like a hormonal teenage girl who is trying to make her ex boyfriend jealous on social media. For my sins (and others on here) we seem to be buying into it I guess so more fool us in that sense. I daresay if he had kept a reasonably low profile this thread would have sunk without trace but to deck your kids out in Welsh gear one week then be giving it the big one about another country a few weeks later….that’s going to make people feel like he’s celebrating the better offer. If one were to be really cynical one could suggest he is revelling in the potential windfall being an over rated English player invariably brings. Any way, best leave them to it. It will just be interesting in ten years time to look back and see how many more gushing posts the old man made about England if his son never makes the cut. |
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Post by insertname on Mar 31, 2022 13:37:07 GMT
That’s as maybe (although I was brought up with a strong sense of national identity so for me it’s weird to countenance that other people’s families have a wishy washy approach to their heritage) but even then there is a way to go about such things with class and grace…living out your switch of allegiance on social media fails that yardstick by a long shot. I too was brought up with very strong sense of national identity, part of which was hating the English (generally and not just at sport)! however, both my children are born and live in England, and whilst they are brought up very much Welsh, to them it makes no sense when they see their parents happy when England lost to Italy or Croatia or whoever. I'm sure they will both grow up with a strong connection to England and I don't think its my place to force it out of them. if that is "wishy washy" then so be it. So if either of my kids went on to represent either country (or both) at any sport, would I be singing it from the hills! personally i see has nothing to do with allegiance but more to do with pride in your kids achievement. That’s fair enough but I still think my point still stands- I would like to think most sensible people wouldn’t be balls deep in both sides at almost the same time because it’s not a good look. It speaks to opportunism which isn’t a good thing. That being said I appreciate people lose sight of the bigger picture when it comes to their kids so maybe it’s just me being irrational in thinking the parents should exercise some restraint whilst their child has not officially committed to any particular country. It’s just good PR because I’m not sure whether he is officially tied to England now but if he isn’t from a Welsh perspective there is no way I’d have him back after all this carry should he not get picked again and suddenly realise that Wales is his route to furthering his career on the international stage. It’s not an England v Wales thing either- I’m all for the official Wales strategy of letting players try out the England setup before coming back, but not when the decision of allegiance is played out on social media in such a crass and gloating way. |
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Post by allezlesrouges on Mar 31, 2022 15:25:00 GMT
We'll know by the next camp where his loyalties lie
Either he comes straight back to us, and I wouldn't have a problem with that, or he plays for England again, in which case the ship will have sailed in terms of his loyalties
He may make himself available to us later in his career, would I be against that? I'm not sure.
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Post by fiveattheback on Mar 31, 2022 15:44:49 GMT
We'll know by the next camp where his loyalties lie Either he comes straight back to us, and I wouldn't have a problem with that, or he plays for England again, in which case the ship will have sailed in terms of his loyalties He may make himself available to us later in his career, would I be against that? I'm not sure. Depends if we have any better midfielders at the time tbh |
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Post by insertname on Mar 31, 2022 15:55:25 GMT
We'll know by the next camp where his loyalties lie Either he comes straight back to us, and I wouldn't have a problem with that, or he plays for England again, in which case the ship will have sailed in terms of his loyalties He may make himself available to us later in his career, would I be against that? I'm not sure. Depends if we have any better midfielders at the time tbh Pffft, you have to stand for something at some point. This is my issue with the whole situation, in a nutshell. If it wasn’t such a social media thing then there is a bridge still in place. The way this has been handled has to have burnt that bridge, if Welsh football has any self-respect left that is. |
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Post by rangers15 on Mar 31, 2022 16:12:10 GMT
if in 2/3 years time or whatever he decided to come back to wales because he cant get in the England squad and he will make our team/squad better than I for one will welcome him with open arms.
The social media stuff doesn't bother me one bit... and IMO is best ignored.
Does anyone care that Kieffer Moore is English? I certainly don't.
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Post by vaulksthrowfanclub on Mar 31, 2022 16:18:06 GMT
Depends if we have any better midfielders at the time tbh Pffft, you have to stand for something at some point. This is my issue with the whole situation, in a nutshell. If it wasn’t such a social media thing then there is a bridge still in place. The way this has been handled has to have burnt that bridge, if Welsh football has any self-respect left that is. Yeah the social media use does, for me, signal that he’s fully in with England now. Very amusing to see how quickly his likes have gone from fully aiming for Cymru to then being a true Englishman. He’s 17 though. Can’t expect him to be totally polished in the media training sense. And in fairness, his dad is probably just proud of his son with regards to his social media output. |
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Post by insertname on Mar 31, 2022 16:33:05 GMT
if in 2/3 years time or whatever he decided to come back to wales because he cant get in the England squad and he will make our team/squad better than I for one will welcome him with open arms. The social media stuff doesn't bother me one bit... and IMO is best ignored. Does anyone care that Kieffer Moore is English? I certainly don't. I don’t think Kieffer or Kieffer senior, was all over social media bigging up how amazing England are after being called up by Wales. Stand to be corrected on that though! |
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Post by insertname on Mar 31, 2022 16:37:12 GMT
Pffft, you have to stand for something at some point. This is my issue with the whole situation, in a nutshell. If it wasn’t such a social media thing then there is a bridge still in place. The way this has been handled has to have burnt that bridge, if Welsh football has any self-respect left that is. Yeah the social media use does, for me, signal that he’s fully in with England now. Very amusing to see how quickly his likes have gone from fully aiming for Cymru to then being a true Englishman. He’s 17 though. Can’t expect him to be totally polished in the media training sense. And in fairness, his dad is probably just proud of his son with regards to his social media output. I don’t blame the player. And his dad might be proud, but to my mind it’s the first one where the family has “rubbed noses in it” so to speak. Eg was there this much commotion when Brooks (or any other lad) turned out for England? There’s a way to act. Most people get it, this lad’s dad doesn’t. That’s what it comes down to for me |
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Post by fiveattheback on Mar 31, 2022 16:58:32 GMT
Depends if we have any better midfielders at the time tbh Pffft, you have to stand for something at some point. This is my issue with the whole situation, in a nutshell. If it wasn’t such a social media thing then there is a bridge still in place. The way this has been handled has to have burnt that bridge, if Welsh football has any self-respect left that is. I'm just being realistic. If he's playing Premier League football at 24 and he wants to play for Wales then this board will be begging him to come back on board I think people are taking Twitter far too seriously |
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Post by insertname on Mar 31, 2022 17:31:44 GMT
Pffft, you have to stand for something at some point. This is my issue with the whole situation, in a nutshell. If it wasn’t such a social media thing then there is a bridge still in place. The way this has been handled has to have burnt that bridge, if Welsh football has any self-respect left that is. I'm just being realistic. If he's playing Premier League football at 24 and he wants to play for Wales then this board will be begging him to come back on board I think people are taking Twitter far too seriously I won’t be. Even a small nation like Wales should never think so little of itself as to accept the most pathetic crumbs from anyone else’s plate. |
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Post by chief on Mar 31, 2022 21:15:12 GMT
17 appearances in the championship this season.
I can see absolutely no logical reason not to call him up to an underachieving u21 squad who's qualifying campaign was basically already over.
Very frustrating.
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Post by hooky on Mar 31, 2022 21:17:45 GMT
17 appearances in the championship this season. I can see absolutely no logical reason not to call him up to an underachieving u21 squad who's qualifying campaign was basically already over. Very frustrating. I can - Paul Bodin! |
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Post by chief on Mar 31, 2022 21:42:40 GMT
17 appearances in the championship this season. I can see absolutely no logical reason not to call him up to an underachieving u21 squad who's qualifying campaign was basically already over. Very frustrating. I can - Paul Bodin! Of course we're assuming that an u21 call up would have prevented the defection. But Bodin is doing a poor job besides this also. |
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