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Post by jimexotic on Mar 25, 2022 20:04:44 GMT
Can we get a Welsh boxing thread going? Lee Selby is in Argentina tomorrow taking a fight against the 27-0 Gustavo Daniel Lemos.
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Post by allezlesrouges on Mar 26, 2022 0:22:12 GMT
Can we get a Welsh boxing thread going? Lee Selby is in Argentina tomorrow taking a fight against the 27-0 Gustavo Daniel Lemos. That would be great - always love reminiscing about Joe Calzaghe fights |
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Post by saturn9 on Mar 26, 2022 19:15:00 GMT
Can we get a Welsh boxing thread going? Lee Selby is in Argentina tomorrow taking a fight against the 27-0 Gustavo Daniel Lemos. That would be great - always love reminiscing about Joe Calzaghe fights Vastly overrated against mostly no names or washed up boxers. He would have been outclassed by the top American boxers of the mid 90's. A prime RJones jnr, a prime James Tony, Michael Nunn. Mike Mccullum would have schooled him. |
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Post by gwernybwch on Mar 26, 2022 21:05:37 GMT
That would be great - always love reminiscing about Joe Calzaghe fights Vastly overrated against mostly no names or washed up boxers. He would have been outclassed by the top American boxers of the mid 90's. A prime RJones jnr, a prime James Tony, Michael Nunn. Mike Mccullum would have schooled him. I'm not sure that a prime Eubank, Lacy & Kessier were 'no names'? Hopkins dodged losing to the white boy, until he got called out in front of the boxing fraternity. Roy Jones Jnr didn't exactly go looking for it either. |
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Post by saturn9 on Mar 27, 2022 10:09:56 GMT
Vastly overrated against mostly no names or washed up boxers. He would have been outclassed by the top American boxers of the mid 90's. A prime RJones jnr, a prime James Tony, Michael Nunn. Mike Mccullum would have schooled him. I'm not sure that a prime Eubank, Lacy & Kessier were 'no names'? Hopkins dodged losing to the white boy, until he got called out in front of the boxing fraternity. Roy Jones Jnr didn't exactly go looking for it either. Personally never rated Hopkins. He was schooled by a mid twenties RJjnr as a middleweight in 94. My interest in boxing started to fade to zero at that time, once I discovered the likes of Ken Shamrock, Severn, and Bas Rutten in pancrase and early Ufc's |
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Post by jimexotic on Mar 27, 2022 14:55:41 GMT
Can we get a Welsh boxing thread going? Lee Selby is in Argentina tomorrow taking a fight against the 27-0 Gustavo Daniel Lemos. That would be great - always love reminiscing about Joe Calzaghe fights Oh man, what a boxer, what an absolute class act. To say I'm a huge fan of Joe Calzaghe is an understatement! I watch the DVD's of the Lacy and Kessler fights whenever I can, taking the 0's of World Champions in their absolute prime and delivering a mastrclass with it and with broken hands and little if any sparring. Imagine how good the man would have been coming into his prime years if he didn't have those injuries although it could be argued that it's exactly that that took him to another level as he had to adapt his style. The way he physically and mentally destroyed Lacy was incredible, Lacy a heavy favourite and an absolute wrecking machine just completely and utterly taken apart. Gutted for Lee Selby, it's over for those brothers now. Considering their background and what they came from both did very well but could have achieved more, especially Andrew who just never had the backing and was victim of the bent system, watching Charlie Edwards get a title shot before him against the guy he had absolutely schooled (Roasales) was hard for me to stomach so god knows what it did to him. |
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Post by allezlesrouges on Mar 27, 2022 17:01:34 GMT
That would be great - always love reminiscing about Joe Calzaghe fights Vastly overrated against mostly no names or washed up boxers. He would have been outclassed by the top American boxers of the mid 90's. A prime RJones jnr, a prime James Tony, Michael Nunn. Mike Mccullum would have schooled him. Sorry but that's absolute nonsense. How do you beat a man that's capable of throwing 1000 punches per fight, and no one was able to knock out. Not only did he beat Roy Jones jnr when they were both out of their prime - he embarrassed him. Would have been much closer when both were in their prime but Calzaghe is underrated not overrated |
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Post by jimexotic on Mar 27, 2022 18:14:05 GMT
Seeing as there is a Rugby thread I thought we could have one for Welsh boxing where we can discuss the past, present and future of Welsh boxing.
Barry's finest, Lee Selby, lost in Argentina last night to the unbeaten and ruthless prospect, Gustavo Daniel Lemos, father time appearing to catch up with the ex IBF World Champion who in his prime was a fantastic boxer at 126, a weight he arguably stayed at for a year or two too many.
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Post by welshrover on Mar 27, 2022 18:45:32 GMT
Must admit I know nothing about boxing and didn't know the story of Steve Robinson until watching the recent TV series Legends of Welsh Sport.
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Post by allezlesrouges on Mar 27, 2022 19:56:17 GMT
That would be great - always love reminiscing about Joe Calzaghe fights Oh man, what a boxer, what an absolute class act. To say I'm a huge fan of Joe Calzaghe is an understatement! I watch the DVD's of the Lacy and Kessler fights whenever I can, taking the 0's of World Champions in their absolute prime and delivering a mastrclass with it and with broken hands and little if any sparring. Imagine how good the man would have been coming into his prime years if he didn't have those injuries although it could be argued that it's exactly that that took him to another level as he had to adapt his style. The way he physically and mentally destroyed Lacy was incredible, Lacy a heavy favourite and an absolute wrecking machine just completely and utterly taken apart. Gutted for Lee Selby, it's over for those brothers now. Considering their background and what they came from both did very well but could have achieved more, especially Andrew who just never had the backing and was victim of the bent system, watching Charlie Edwards get a title shot before him against the guy he had absolutely schooled (Roasales) was hard for me to stomach so god knows what it did to him. Couldn't agree more. I love the HBO coverage of one of his fights (I think it's against Lacy) up on youtube. The contrast between Lacy's camp which is all glitz and glamour, and then Calzaghe's camp and how simplistic it is - I absolutely love the cultural contrast. And I love how Calzaghe used the culture to his advantage of the quieter side of Welsh life. The sky sports brigade & Olympic committees weren't that interested in him because of his background, but he used that to his advantage to prepare himself perfectly and become better for it Lacy's slapdown was the best performance I've seen from a boxer on these isles. His last against Roy Jones was a work of art |
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Post by aberbeeg on Mar 28, 2022 4:06:04 GMT
I remember 15 of us travelling out to Vegas to watch Calzage Vs Hopkins there were 10 thousand travelling fans inside the arena that night. Brilliant atmosphere and Welsh filled the strip for about 5 days.
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Post by allezlesrouges on Mar 28, 2022 9:14:53 GMT
I remember 15 of us travelling out to Vegas to watch Calzage Vs Hopkins there were 10 thousand travelling fans inside the arena that night. Brilliant atmosphere and Welsh filled the strip for about 5 days. I was too young to go at the time, but have heard since that Vegas turned into Wales away back then - it's funny we seem to have this great camaraderie in every sport when we play abroad |
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Post by aberbeeg on Mar 29, 2022 13:10:28 GMT
I remember 15 of us travelling out to Vegas to watch Calzage Vs Hopkins there were 10 thousand travelling fans inside the arena that night. Brilliant atmosphere and Welsh filled the strip for about 5 days. I was too young to go at the time, but have heard since that Vegas turned into Wales away back then - it's funny we seem to have this great camaraderie in every sport when we play abroad It was probably the best “away” trip I’ve ever been on ( including over 50 Welsh football trips). We stayed in the MGM Grand and the bar was always bursting with Welsh no matter what timed we went in. The famous Studio 54 nightclub was exactly the same each night too. Plus like I said the whole strip seemed to full with Welsh for about 5 whole days. Brilliant trip. calzage was definitely underrated as a boxer in my opinion. |
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Post by dai on Mar 29, 2022 13:31:21 GMT
I don't know what to make of Calzaghe's career to be honest.
Unfortunately for me, there were a lot of American fights that could/should have happened. Calzaghe vs a younger Hopkins, Jermaine Taylor, up and coming Chad Dawson, Antonio Tarver etc.
Jeff Lacy was vastly over rated and didn't fight anyone of note, and lost half of his matches after Calzaghe so I wouldn't class that as a big win. The Hopkins win was legit though as Hopkins went on to defeat Pavlik, who was up and coming and highly rated.
I really wanted him to face Carl Froch, but Froch was up and coming and Calzaghe was planning retirement.
The question is, did he dodge some fights, or did his opponents dodge him? We'll never know all of them.
He's definitely a Welsh boxing great, the best ever perhaps, but I don't think he can be labeled as an all time great - to me, I felt he (or Warren) picked his fights too carefully.
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Post by allezlesrouges on Mar 29, 2022 14:01:27 GMT
I don't know what to make of Calzaghe's career to be honest. Unfortunately for me, there were a lot of American fights that could/should have happened. Calzaghe vs a younger Hopkins, Jermaine Taylor, up and coming Chad Dawson, Antonio Tarver etc. Jeff Lacy was vastly over rated and didn't fight anyone of note, and lost half of his matches after Calzaghe so I wouldn't class that as a big win. The Hopkins win was legit though as Hopkins went on to defeat Pavlik, who was up and coming and highly rated. I really wanted him to face Carl Froch, but Froch was up and coming and Calzaghe was planning retirement. The question is, did he dodge some fights, or did his opponents dodge him? We'll never know all of them. He's definitely a Welsh boxing great, the best ever perhaps, but I don't think he can be labeled as an all time great - to me, I felt he (or Warren) picked his fights too carefully. Hindsight's 20-20. Lacy was undefeated and the Americans were bigging him up as the next big thing. If you watch the ITV full fight on youtube the commentator says about halfway through that when he predicted a Calzaghe win to his American colleagues they literally laughed out loud at him and thought he was a wind up. That's how heavily favoured Lacy was. Later in the fight the commentator remarks that he's looking over at them and their jaws are on the floor - absolutely brilliant! Sometimes when boxers take that level of a beating they never recover, and I think Lacy was actually a good and exciting (yet overhyped) fighter who never recovered after a 12 round slap down Overall I think fighters either dodged him, or didn't consider him enough of a payday/draw/worthwhile risk to come over here and fight. It annoys me that the Americans consider their fighters to be the best in the divisions, and yet staunchly claims that fighters need to come over to America to prove they are better. If your boys are better why don't they have an away day over here and see if they can do it out of their comfort zone? Calzaghe just gave them a taste of their own medicine in that sense, insisting that they came the the UK if they were so confident The fact that when Calzaghe finally did go over and fight two of their greats at similar stages of their careers he beat them both comfortably tells me at the very least they'd be close in their primes. It partially comes down to style as well, as after all styles make fights. I don't think Jones ever threw enough to out point Calzaghe, and no one ever proved they could hit Joe hard enough to take his legs away Whilst there was an element of carefully picking, Calzaghe took big risks against Eubank, Lacy, Kessler, Roy Jones and Hopkins. Most fighters only have a handful of fights that define their career, the rest are potential banana skins you have to avoid losing to - which Calzaghe also did |
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Post by Albert on Mar 29, 2022 14:40:55 GMT
I don't know what to make of Calzaghe's career to be honest. Unfortunately for me, there were a lot of American fights that could/should have happened. Calzaghe vs a younger Hopkins, Jermaine Taylor, up and coming Chad Dawson, Antonio Tarver etc. Jeff Lacy was vastly over rated and didn't fight anyone of note, and lost half of his matches after Calzaghe so I wouldn't class that as a big win. The Hopkins win was legit though as Hopkins went on to defeat Pavlik, who was up and coming and highly rated. I really wanted him to face Carl Froch, but Froch was up and coming and Calzaghe was planning retirement. The question is, did he dodge some fights, or did his opponents dodge him? We'll never know all of them. He's definitely a Welsh boxing great, the best ever perhaps, but I don't think he can be labeled as an all time great - to me, I felt he (or Warren) picked his fights too carefully. Hindsight's 20-20. Lacy was undefeated and the Americans were bigging him up as the next big thing. If you watch the ITV full fight on youtube the commentator says about halfway through that when he predicted a Calzaghe win to his American colleagues they literally laughed out loud at him and thought he was a wind up. That's how heavily favoured Lacy was. Later in the fight the commentator remarks that he's looking over at them and their jaws are on the floor - absolutely brilliant! Sometimes when boxers take that level of a beating they never recover, and I think Lacy was actually a good and exciting (yet overhyped) fighter who never recovered after a 12 round slap down Overall I think fighters either dodged him, or didn't consider him enough of a payday/draw/worthwhile risk to come over here and fight. It annoys me that the Americans consider their fighters to be the best in the divisions, and yet staunchly claims that fighters need to come over to America to prove they are better. If your boys are better why don't they have an away day over here and see if they can do it out of their comfort zone? Calzaghe just gave them a taste of their own medicine in that sense, insisting that they came the the UK if they were so confident The fact that when Calzaghe finally did go over and fight two of their greats at similar stages of their careers he beat them both comfortably tells me at the very least they'd be close in their primes. It partially comes down to style as well, as after all styles make fights. I don't think Jones ever threw enough to out point Calzaghe, and no one ever proved they could hit Joe hard enough to take his legs away Whilst there was an element of carefully picking, Calzaghe took big risks against Eubank, Lacy, Kessler, Roy Jones and Hopkins. Most fighters only have a handful of fights that define their career, the rest are potential banana skins you have to avoid losing to - which Calzaghe also did He turned up to the weigh in or a press conference wearing an England football shirt looking for a wind up! That Lacy fight woke the Americans up as the kessler fight was on at 3-4am in a freezing millennium stadium for the American audience |
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Post by allezlesrouges on Mar 29, 2022 17:01:19 GMT
Hindsight's 20-20. Lacy was undefeated and the Americans were bigging him up as the next big thing. If you watch the ITV full fight on youtube the commentator says about halfway through that when he predicted a Calzaghe win to his American colleagues they literally laughed out loud at him and thought he was a wind up. That's how heavily favoured Lacy was. Later in the fight the commentator remarks that he's looking over at them and their jaws are on the floor - absolutely brilliant! Sometimes when boxers take that level of a beating they never recover, and I think Lacy was actually a good and exciting (yet overhyped) fighter who never recovered after a 12 round slap down Overall I think fighters either dodged him, or didn't consider him enough of a payday/draw/worthwhile risk to come over here and fight. It annoys me that the Americans consider their fighters to be the best in the divisions, and yet staunchly claims that fighters need to come over to America to prove they are better. If your boys are better why don't they have an away day over here and see if they can do it out of their comfort zone? Calzaghe just gave them a taste of their own medicine in that sense, insisting that they came the the UK if they were so confident The fact that when Calzaghe finally did go over and fight two of their greats at similar stages of their careers he beat them both comfortably tells me at the very least they'd be close in their primes. It partially comes down to style as well, as after all styles make fights. I don't think Jones ever threw enough to out point Calzaghe, and no one ever proved they could hit Joe hard enough to take his legs away Whilst there was an element of carefully picking, Calzaghe took big risks against Eubank, Lacy, Kessler, Roy Jones and Hopkins. Most fighters only have a handful of fights that define their career, the rest are potential banana skins you have to avoid losing to - which Calzaghe also did He turned up to the weigh in or a press conference wearing an England football shirt looking for a wind up! That Lacy fight woke the Americans up as the kessler fight was on at 3-4am in a freezing millennium stadium for the American audience Lacy was before Kessler, but I remember Manny Steward was already very impressed with Calzaghe before the Kessler fight, but after that he began putting him up there in the pound for pound conversation - he was someone who knew what he was talking about |
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Post by jimexotic on Mar 29, 2022 21:46:47 GMT
I don't know what to make of Calzaghe's career to be honest. Unfortunately for me, there were a lot of American fights that could/should have happened. Calzaghe vs a younger Hopkins, Jermaine Taylor, up and coming Chad Dawson, Antonio Tarver etc. Jeff Lacy was vastly over rated and didn't fight anyone of note, and lost half of his matches after Calzaghe so I wouldn't class that as a big win. The Hopkins win was legit though as Hopkins went on to defeat Pavlik, who was up and coming and highly rated. I really wanted him to face Carl Froch, but Froch was up and coming and Calzaghe was planning retirement. The question is, did he dodge some fights, or did his opponents dodge him? We'll never know all of them. He's definitely a Welsh boxing great, the best ever perhaps, but I don't think he can be labeled as an all time great - to me, I felt he (or Warren) picked his fights too carefully. People say that about Lacy a lot but I think that does Joe a lot of discredit, he absolutely took apart what was previously a wrecking ball touted as a Super Middleweight Mike Tyson, the odds on favourite on the night, he absolutely destroyed him, took something out of him that he never got back. It wasn't like it was close at any point and Joe gradually wore him down, from the first minute to the last he absolutely schooled him, battered him, played with him, a guy that people were running scared of just completely outclassed by a man with broken hands who couldn't spar and trained in a shed with his dad. I don't think Joe dodged anyone, people like to make out he did but he wanted Jones Jnr earlier in his career and there was no point in fighting Froch at the time and had the two met Froch would have been outclassed. There's a narrative that Joe went through his career fighting nobodies and then fought a bum in Lacy, an average World Champion in Kessler and an over the hill Hopkins. Forget the Jones Jnr fight, it was an exhibition, the others though, he beat a better version of Kessler than the one that Froch lost too and Hopkins was far from done at the time. The Hopkins win wasn't as convincing as it could have been because of the ridiculous tactics employed by Hopkins, headbutting, running headbutting, non stop clinching, just really awful on the eye fighting that although effective was absolutely rubbish to watch and deserved to lose. Make no mistake, there's some easy fights on Joe's resume but Lacy and Kessler were career defining performances and prior to them there's a number of wins that never quite got the recognition they deserved. |
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Post by zakbaby on Mar 30, 2022 0:43:54 GMT
There will always be doubters in regards to Joe. That's human nature to nit pick. Just ask any pro or ex pro boxer about Joe and the answer is always the same. Up there with the very best of all time.
There is a great programme called The Gloves are off, middleweight special. It has Joe, Jones Jnr, Eubank, Woodall and Collins sitting around the table talking. All of them except Collins show so much respect to Joe, it tells it's own story. Well never see another like him.
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Post by saturn9 on Mar 30, 2022 10:54:50 GMT
In no particular order my top half a dozen.
5 of them were way before my time. 1 included because he was born not a million miles from where my Grandfather was born and raised.
Wilde
Driscol
Fred Welsh
Tom Thomas - born in Glynarthen - Cardiganshire.
Colin Jones, went to the states mixed with the top Yanks. Also has to be included for giving the Moriaty bros a proper thrashing.
Willy Davies
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Post by mrpicton79 on Mar 30, 2022 11:19:44 GMT
Joe had problems with his hands which no doubt affected his career, particularly later on. Nevertheless you can see where the doubters are coming from just with a closer peek at his record. The 46-0 sounds great until you realise that only 7 of his opponents were genuinely world level, and half of those were pretty shot by the time Joe fought them.
Definitely should have ventured to the 'states earlier to challenge the better fighters. Far too many Mario Veits and Tocker Pudwills on his resume to be considered one of the greatest of all time imo.
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Post by bale-droed on Mar 30, 2022 12:04:51 GMT
Joe had problems with his hands which no doubt affected his career, particularly later on. Nevertheless you can see where the doubters are coming from just with a closer peek at his record. The 46-0 sounds great until you realise that only 7 of his opponents were genuinely world level, and half of those were pretty shot by the time Joe fought them. Definitely should have ventured to the 'states earlier to challenge the better fighters. Far too many Mario Veits and Tocker Pudwills on his resume to be considered one of the greatest of all time imo. I agree but I also think he was managed well. Maybe as well as anyone ever. He was protected while his reputation and value rose leading to title fights, sold out stadiums and big ppv money. I loved every Calzaghe fight that I was old enough to watch. Such an event. The Roy Jones JNR fight was huge at the time. I remember leaving my mates house at about 4:30/5am and during the 30 minute walk home in the valleys I walked past 100s of people going home from friends houses. Not that many in Wales as far as I can remember have stayed up that late for a sporting event/ individual |
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Post by jimexotic on Mar 30, 2022 14:18:46 GMT
In no particular order my top half a dozen. 5 of them were way before my time. 1 included because he was born not a million miles from where my Grandfather was born and raised. Wilde Driscol Fred Welsh Tom Thomas - born in Glynarthen - Cardiganshire. Colin Jones, went to the states mixed with the top Yanks. Also has to be included for giving the Moriaty bros a proper thrashing. Willy Davies Colin Jones, the first man to stop Kirkland Laing and he did again before Laing would get his famous and career defining win over Duran. You could strongly argue that Jones deserved the Hands Of Stone tag. |
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Post by allezlesrouges on Mar 30, 2022 19:43:07 GMT
Joe had problems with his hands which no doubt affected his career, particularly later on. Nevertheless you can see where the doubters are coming from just with a closer peek at his record. The 46-0 sounds great until you realise that only 7 of his opponents were genuinely world level, and half of those were pretty shot by the time Joe fought them. Definitely should have ventured to the 'states earlier to challenge the better fighters. Far too many Mario Veits and Tocker Pudwills on his resume to be considered one of the greatest of all time imo. How many fighters in the modern era can you name that have had more than 7 fights at world level? There's not many |
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Post by gwernybwch on Mar 30, 2022 22:00:44 GMT
Joe had problems with his hands which no doubt affected his career, particularly later on. Nevertheless you can see where the doubters are coming from just with a closer peek at his record. The 46-0 sounds great until you realise that only 7 of his opponents were genuinely world level, and half of those were pretty shot by the time Joe fought them. Definitely should have ventured to the 'states earlier to challenge the better fighters. Far too many Mario Veits and Tocker Pudwills on his resume to be considered one of the greatest of all time imo. I agree but I also think he was managed well. Maybe as well as anyone ever. He was protected while his reputation and value rose leading to title fights, sold out stadiums and big ppv money. I loved every Calzaghe fight that I was old enough to watch. Such an event. The Roy Jones JNR fight was huge at the time. I remember leaving my mates house at about 4:30/5am and during the 30 minute walk home in the valleys I walked past 100s of people going home from friends houses. Not that many in Wales as far as I can remember have stayed up that late for a sporting event/ individual I watched it in the Philippines. The match was (rather randomly) being shown at a passenger collection point and round by round it was drawing the locals to the TV to watch it. When travelling overseas you often get blank looks when you say that you are from Wales, so I took the opportunity and proudly announced to the ensemble "He's from my country, Wales". I like to think that the Filipino's also understood what a world-class boxer could do for the reputation of a country. They watched in awe at this south paw, part warrior, part entertainer. They all agreed that this was one of the best boxers that they had ever seen. Although none of them would entertain that he was a better pound-for-pound fighter than Manny Pacquiao! The one thing that always sadden me about Pacquiao, that on occasions his career wasn't managed like Calzaghe's was. Manny took fights (and lost to) street brawlers just because the fight was there. If only he had an Enzo in his ear that someone was a "not yet" opponent or "not worth it" fight. |
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Post by mrpicton79 on Mar 31, 2022 1:21:57 GMT
Joe had problems with his hands which no doubt affected his career, particularly later on. Nevertheless you can see where the doubters are coming from just with a closer peek at his record. The 46-0 sounds great until you realise that only 7 of his opponents were genuinely world level, and half of those were pretty shot by the time Joe fought them. Definitely should have ventured to the 'states earlier to challenge the better fighters. Far too many Mario Veits and Tocker Pudwills on his resume to be considered one of the greatest of all time imo. How many fighters in the modern era can you name that have had more than 7 fights at world level? There's not many Carl Froch. Ricky Hatton. They never went back to fighting European/regional level fighters after winning a world title. It took Joe nearly a decade to unify against Jeff Lacy after claiming the vacant WBO belt. Just wish he'd done it a little sooner. |
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Post by mrpicton79 on Mar 31, 2022 1:25:40 GMT
I agree but I also think he was managed well. Maybe as well as anyone ever. He was protected while his reputation and value rose leading to title fights, sold out stadiums and big ppv money. I loved every Calzaghe fight that I was old enough to watch. Such an event. The Roy Jones JNR fight was huge at the time. I remember leaving my mates house at about 4:30/5am and during the 30 minute walk home in the valleys I walked past 100s of people going home from friends houses. Not that many in Wales as far as I can remember have stayed up that late for a sporting event/ individual I watched it in the Philippines. The match was (rather randomly) being shown at a passenger collection point and round by round it was drawing the locals to the TV to watch it. When travelling overseas you often get blank looks when you say that you are from Wales, so I took the opportunity and proudly announced to the ensemble "He's from my country, Wales". I like to think that the Filipino's also understood what a world-class boxer could do for the reputation of a country. They watched in awe at this south paw, part warrior, part entertainer. They all agreed that this was one of the best boxers that they had ever seen. Although none of them would entertain that he was a better pound-for-pound fighter than Manny Pacquiao! The one thing that always sadden me about Pacquiao, that on occasions his career wasn't managed like Calzaghe's was. Manny took fights (and lost to) street brawlers just because the fight was there. If only he had an Enzo in his ear that someone was a "not yet" opponent or "not worth it" fight.Meh see as a fight fan I much prefer that "step up and challenge anyone" type of mentality over someone desperate to protect an undefeated record. I know it looks like I'm dissing Joe here, I'm just casting a critical eye over what was still a stellar career. |
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Post by allezlesrouges on Mar 31, 2022 12:08:42 GMT
How many fighters in the modern era can you name that have had more than 7 fights at world level? There's not many Carl Froch. Ricky Hatton. They never went back to fighting European/regional level fighters after winning a world title. It took Joe nearly a decade to unify against Jeff Lacy after claiming the vacant WBO belt. Just wish he'd done it a little sooner. Who are the 7 for Froch and Hatton? I can't see more than 7 on their CVs that are that impressive. Most top boxers have around 4-5 fights at that level that define their career. Joe crucially won all of his where Froch and Hatton didn't - and I don't think either had much more of an impressive set of opponents |
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Post by jimexotic on Mar 31, 2022 21:48:59 GMT
I agree but I also think he was managed well. Maybe as well as anyone ever. He was protected while his reputation and value rose leading to title fights, sold out stadiums and big ppv money. I loved every Calzaghe fight that I was old enough to watch. Such an event. The Roy Jones JNR fight was huge at the time. I remember leaving my mates house at about 4:30/5am and during the 30 minute walk home in the valleys I walked past 100s of people going home from friends houses. Not that many in Wales as far as I can remember have stayed up that late for a sporting event/ individual I watched it in the Philippines. The match was (rather randomly) being shown at a passenger collection point and round by round it was drawing the locals to the TV to watch it. When travelling overseas you often get blank looks when you say that you are from Wales, so I took the opportunity and proudly announced to the ensemble "He's from my country, Wales". I like to think that the Filipino's also understood what a world-class boxer could do for the reputation of a country. They watched in awe at this south paw, part warrior, part entertainer. They all agreed that this was one of the best boxers that they had ever seen. Although none of them would entertain that he was a better pound-for-pound fighter than Manny Pacquiao! The one thing that always sadden me about Pacquiao, that on occasions his career wasn't managed like Calzaghe's was. Manny took fights (and lost to) street brawlers just because the fight was there. If only he had an Enzo in his ear that someone was a "not yet" opponent or "not worth it" fight. Manny's career was insane and very well managed I'd say, the defeats made him the amazing fighter that he was and only added to his legacy because of the way he bounced back so brilliantly from them. I would never have a problem with anyone saying he's the best of all time, he was that good. When you go through his career on here boxrec.com/en/proboxer/6129 you can see what an incredible career he had, he was such an exciting fighter to watch. Like Joe, we'll never see another like it, such is the way boxing is these days. |
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Post by gwernybwch on Apr 1, 2022 12:32:07 GMT
I watched it in the Philippines. The match was (rather randomly) being shown at a passenger collection point and round by round it was drawing the locals to the TV to watch it. When travelling overseas you often get blank looks when you say that you are from Wales, so I took the opportunity and proudly announced to the ensemble "He's from my country, Wales". I like to think that the Filipino's also understood what a world-class boxer could do for the reputation of a country. They watched in awe at this south paw, part warrior, part entertainer. They all agreed that this was one of the best boxers that they had ever seen. Although none of them would entertain that he was a better pound-for-pound fighter than Manny Pacquiao! The one thing that always sadden me about Pacquiao, that on occasions his career wasn't managed like Calzaghe's was. Manny took fights (and lost to) street brawlers just because the fight was there. If only he had an Enzo in his ear that someone was a "not yet" opponent or "not worth it" fight. Manny's career was insane and very well managed I'd say, the defeats made him the amazing fighter that he was and only added to his legacy because of the way he bounced back so brilliantly from them. I would never have a problem with anyone saying he's the best of all time, he was that good. When you go through his career on here boxrec.com/en/proboxer/6129 you can see what an incredible career he had, he was such an exciting fighter to watch. Like Joe, we'll never see another like it, such is the way boxing is these days. I'm sorry, but for a boxer in his prime to miss out on a fight with Mayweather because of blood tests you can't argue that he was well managed. After his loss to Mayweather he was not training as hard and mostly relying on his quality, and it showed as the KO's started to turn to UD's. If he was well managed someone should have told him it is all or nothing. That would have stopped the wins from turning into poor losses. |
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