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Post by jimexotic on May 31, 2022 7:41:44 GMT
Billy Gilmour is nothing more than a hype job based on one performance against England where, if you apply the same logic, Grant Hanley should be coveted by the top half of the top 5 leagues in Europe and Lyndon Dykes as a plan b option from the bench too.
At 16 years old Reece Oxford burst onto the scene with a man of the match display at Arsenal where he shackled one of the most creative players in the World at the time in Ozil. Where is Reece Oxford now. I don't like using our own but Ben Woodburn, that's not exactly gone to plan since that fairytale Austria goal.
Robertson and McGinn are the two players that concern me but we have more than enough to bother them, we have something they don't have too, pace all over the place and on the bench too. In these type of games speed kills.
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Post by allezlesrouges on May 31, 2022 10:30:29 GMT
If we were bottlers we wouldn't be in the final now. If we lose the final it's not because of some destiny to always be bottlers, it will be because we're beaten on the day Not sure where this ‘bottlers’ nonsense has come from. If we lose fair and square does that automatically make us ‘bottlers’? Is every team that loses a big game,final or a play off a ‘bottler’? Is it possible to lose on Sunday without being bottlers? Or is it simply win=heroes, lose = bottlers? These are genuine questions. I’ve no idea what the difference, if any, is between a team that loses a big game and a bottler. 100% agree there's no such thing. It's something fans make up when they think they see a pattern, until that pattern is spoiled by success then you stop hearing about it. The only recent club that I think still get called this are Spurs - just wait until Conte wins something with them - the narrative will change. When in reality nothing actually changed
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Post by allezlesrouges on May 31, 2022 10:32:17 GMT
Billy Gilmour is nothing more than a hype job based one performance against England where, if you supply the same logic, Grant Hanley should be coveted by the top half of the top 5 leagues in Europe and Lyndon Dykes as a plan b option from the bench too. At 16 years old Reece Oxford burst onto the scene with a man of the match display at Arsenal where he shackled one of the most creative players in the World at the time in Ozil. Where is Reece Oxford now. I don't like using our own but Ben Woodburn, that's not exactly gone to plan since that fairytale Austria goal. Robertson and McGinn are the two players that concern me but we have more than enough to bother them, we have something they don't have too, pace all over the place and on the bench too. In these type of games speed kills. Tbf I didn't know the answer to this, but turns out he's a regular for Augsburg in the Bundesliga, so not doing too badly! Wish Woodburn was playing at that level!
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Post by insertname on May 31, 2022 11:01:31 GMT
If we were bottlers we wouldn't be in the final now. If we lose the final it's not because of some destiny to always be bottlers, it will be because we're beaten on the day Not sure where this ‘bottlers’ nonsense has come from. If we lose fair and square does that automatically make us ‘bottlers’? Is every team that loses a big game,final or a play off a ‘bottler’? Is it possible to lose on Sunday without being bottlers? Or is it simply win=heroes, lose = bottlers? These are genuine questions. I’ve no idea what the difference, if any, is between a team that loses a big game and a bottler. It depends on the context but really, if you’ve got a home game you need to win against an average side and you don’t put in even an average performance and your best players fail to perform then it’s hard to dress it up any other way really. We had it all lined up for us against ROI and we can’t even argue we were unlucky because we were absolutely abject and the only player that turned up was Allen before he was KO’ed. If we play like that and lose the final it will be a bottle job again because it was set up for us. If we were away at Hampden or Kyiv then it’s a different story. The pressure is always on the home side because they have the biggest material advantage and for us as well as the home draw we’ve been given the extra boost of avoiding Portugal and Italy. There can be literally no excuses if we fail to finish the job from here. Even with an expanded World Cup next time round it’s hard to see that we will have a chance this straight forward again: 4 points off the Czechs, 1 off an already qualified Belgium for the chance to beat Austria and then Scot/Ukr at home to get to a World Cup? That’s a friggin’ dream run.
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Post by iot on May 31, 2022 11:51:26 GMT
Not sure where this ‘bottlers’ nonsense has come from. If we lose fair and square does that automatically make us ‘bottlers’? Is every team that loses a big game,final or a play off a ‘bottler’? Is it possible to lose on Sunday without being bottlers? Or is it simply win=heroes, lose = bottlers? These are genuine questions. I’ve no idea what the difference, if any, is between a team that loses a big game and a bottler. It depends on the context but really, if you’ve got a home game you need to win against an average side and you don’t put in even an average performance and your best players fail to perform then it’s hard to dress it up any other way really. We had it all lined up for us against ROI and we can’t even argue we were unlucky because we were absolutely abject and the only player that turned up was Allen before he was KO’ed. If we play like that and lose the final it will be a bottle job again because it was set up for us. If we were away at Hampden or Kyiv then it’s a different story. The pressure is always on the home side because they have the biggest material advantage and for us as well as the home draw we’ve been given the extra boost of avoiding Portugal and Italy. There can be literally no excuses if we fail to finish the job from here. Even with an expanded World Cup next time round it’s hard to see that we will have a chance this straight forward again: 4 points off the Czechs, 1 off an already qualified Belgium for the chance to beat Austria and then Scot/Ukr at home to get to a World Cup? That’s a friggin’ dream run. We need to have a more honest and realistic view of our level. We have massively overperformed for years when you consider the level of our players. In that game against Rep of Irealnd, we had Bale out and Allen out after 30mins, up against a team full of hardened premier league players. On paper, I wouldn't say we were the firm favourites at all. The only player we had that you can say was a cut above was Ramsey, and he had a stinker. Did he bottle it? No, I would say the opposite - he tried way too hard to the point where everything he did was overly-elaborate and he would lose possession all the time. If we now compare our current team with Scotland's, can we honestly say that on paper we're a much better team than them? I don't think we can personally, so if we lose the game I wouldn't see it as us bottling it. I'd put our chances of beating them at 50-60%, so for it to go the other way wouldn't be a major shock.
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Post by insertname on May 31, 2022 12:12:36 GMT
It depends on the context but really, if you’ve got a home game you need to win against an average side and you don’t put in even an average performance and your best players fail to perform then it’s hard to dress it up any other way really. We had it all lined up for us against ROI and we can’t even argue we were unlucky because we were absolutely abject and the only player that turned up was Allen before he was KO’ed. If we play like that and lose the final it will be a bottle job again because it was set up for us. If we were away at Hampden or Kyiv then it’s a different story. The pressure is always on the home side because they have the biggest material advantage and for us as well as the home draw we’ve been given the extra boost of avoiding Portugal and Italy. There can be literally no excuses if we fail to finish the job from here. Even with an expanded World Cup next time round it’s hard to see that we will have a chance this straight forward again: 4 points off the Czechs, 1 off an already qualified Belgium for the chance to beat Austria and then Scot/Ukr at home to get to a World Cup? That’s a friggin’ dream run. We need to have a more honest and realistic view of our level. We have massively overperformed for years when you consider the level of our players. In that game against Rep of Irealnd, we had Bale out and Allen out after 30mins, up against a team full of hardened premier league players. On paper, I wouldn't say we were the firm favourites at all. The only player we had that you can say was a cut above was Ramsey, and he had a stinker. Did he bottle it? No, I would say the opposite - he tried way too hard to the point where everything he did was overly-elaborate and he would lose possession all the time. If we now compare our current team with Scotland's, can we honestly say that on paper we're a much better team than them? I don't think we can personally, so if we lose the game I wouldn't see it as us bottling it. I'd put our chances of beating them at 50-60%, so for it to go the other way wouldn't be a major shock. Well in some ways you could argue that in itself is bottling it because the occasion affected the way he played- his head was not right because the pressure made him, ultimately, play badly even by just trying too hard. Re the final it would be a shock imo, based on our home record and who that home record was achieved against. Wasn’t our last home defeat ROI four years ago? Neither Scotland or Ukraine, on paper, are particularly worthy of claiming such a scalp as our recent home record. For me it’s symptomatic of the perennial narrative about the Wales football team that we are always plucky underdogs even when we aren’t. Player for player we suffer from not having any household names but when you look at it in terms of achievement there is clear daylight between Wales and Scotland and there has been for many years. Last 16 of the Euros, higher nations league, nations league promotion, impeccable home record etc etc and yet we’re underdogs, or only on a par with Scotland?! People need to stop looking at individuals and consider Wales in terms of the unit because it’s the unit that has achieved the success and kept more than afloat when Bale and Ramsey have been injured (which they regularly are). When you look at the home record and the likes it was achieved against for Scotland or Ukraine to put a dent in that record where the likes of Belgium couldn’t, in the one game where we could afford it least, that would be very hard to try and put a narrative of “plucky defeat” on. I will say that Ukraine perhaps it would be less of a shock because they have beaten France recently but even so, when you look strictly in terms of how imperious Wales have been at home we are firmly in the driving seat. I would say there are very few teams in Europe in fact who would want to play us at home in a one off game simply because of how we always seem to keep it tight and nick a goal and a result even when playing badly and that is reflected in the stats from our home games. Cardiff is a very difficult place in normal times to get a win. The question is will the pressure of a final at home suitably change the dynamic enough that instead of being a strength it starts to advantage the opposition? If we just play like we have been doing I have no doubt we will win…but what I’m not confident about is how the occasion itself will be handled.
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Post by cogancoronation31 on May 31, 2022 15:52:35 GMT
Scotland and Ukraine will be having their final tomorrow night (Wednesday). Let's hope they both put in a 110% effort and are both exhausted at the end.
There can only be one winner on Sunday, and that will be us.
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Post by Deleted on May 31, 2022 16:44:47 GMT
Everytime a welsh football fan gets confident and say's we are going to win 50% of me thinks yes that's the attitude let's be confident,but the other 50% is thinking shit no don't say that
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Post by iantov on May 31, 2022 16:54:58 GMT
'World Cup play-off semi-final: Scotland v Ukraine - what to expect from traumatised visitors' At the weekend, the Ukraine squad held what they described as a "sparring match" with one team playing in the "style of the Scottish national team"!!! Full article here; www.bbc.com/sport/football/61628369
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Post by mrpicton79 on Jun 1, 2022 0:59:10 GMT
Billy Gilmour is nothing more than a hype job based on one performance against England where, if you apply the same logic, Grant Hanley should be coveted by the top half of the top 5 leagues in Europe and Lyndon Dykes as a plan b option from the bench too. At 16 years old Reece Oxford burst onto the scene with a man of the match display at Arsenal where he shackled one of the most creative players in the World at the time in Ozil. Where is Reece Oxford now. I don't like using our own but Ben Woodburn, that's not exactly gone to plan since that fairytale Austria goal. Robertson and McGinn are the two players that concern me but we have more than enough to bother them, we have something they don't have too, pace all over the place and on the bench too. In these type of games speed kills. To be fair it's a bit more than that with Gilmour. You don't get singled out for praise by Roy Keane unless you're doing something right www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Lfe11JiYSg
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Post by welwyn on Jun 1, 2022 7:35:36 GMT
What scares me is they pick up an injury or two today in central midfield and Allan Campbell ends up playing v us. He is the player they THINK McTominay is. I don't think he is as good as Kante but he is that style and would comfortably ruin our midfield more than any other player they have.
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Post by spiritof16 on Jun 1, 2022 7:40:56 GMT
Anyone else convinced Ukraine will beat Scotland tonight?
They have an emotional desire far beyond anything we could imagine.
They have also been training together, albeit only part of the squad, since the end of April.
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Post by iot on Jun 1, 2022 7:54:03 GMT
Anyone else convinced Ukraine will beat Scotland tonight? They have an emotional desire far beyond anything we could imagine. They have also been training together, albeit only part of the squad, since the end of April. Nah, i'm more concerned that they won't provide enough of a test for Scotland. The closer and more competitive the game is, the better for us irrespective of who comes out on top
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Post by saturn9 on Jun 1, 2022 8:03:51 GMT
Anyone else convinced Ukraine will beat Scotland tonight? They have an emotional desire far beyond anything we could imagine. They have also been training together, albeit only part of the squad, since the end of April. No. Dastardly Jocks by 2
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Post by bringbackelmo on Jun 1, 2022 11:01:35 GMT
I'm looking forward to tonight, don't have any strong views on who we play in the final now I don't think. Hopefully it goes the full 120 though...
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Post by insertname on Jun 1, 2022 11:15:40 GMT
www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/61654345Not a fan of the stark message in that article. I mean undoubtedly the article isn’t wrong- it’s just beginning to dawn on me that the author is right and that in many ways tonight’s game will be more than a football match, it will be headline political news around the world. It’s a very uncomfortable spotlight glare for Ukraine’s opponents to be under. I’m completely on the fence about who I want to win and who the best opponent would be. One thing that is very unusual about this scenario is that, for once, the incessant hype of the “Battle of Britain” bollocks that the media love so much will pale into insignificance compared to the narrative if Ukraine were to win. With the game being shown on ITV you can bet ITV would turn into Ukraine’s premier sports channel for the evening too. Ugh.
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Post by allezlesrouges on Jun 1, 2022 12:09:32 GMT
I don't think the world wanting Ukraine to win will have a bearing at all on how we would prepare for a game with them, nor how the game would go
It's irrelevant to me & won't be that much of a circus because it's only Thurs/Fri/Sat that we have to hear about it from the English press
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Post by mrpicton79 on Jun 1, 2022 12:20:19 GMT
www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/61654345Not a fan of the stark message in that article. I mean undoubtedly the article isn’t wrong- it’s just beginning to dawn on me that the author is right and that in many ways tonight’s game will be more than a football match, it will be headline political news around the world. It’s a very uncomfortable spotlight glare for Ukraine’s opponents to be under. I’m completely on the fence about who I want to win and who the best opponent would be. One thing that is very unusual about this scenario is that, for once, the incessant hype of the “Battle of Britain” bollocks that the media love so much will pale into insignificance compared to the narrative if Ukraine were to win. With the game being shown on ITV you can bet ITV would turn into Ukraine’s premier sports channel for the evening too. Ugh. I was just going to post this link www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/61647628So many similar articles doing the rounds (as one would imagine). I've flipped-flopped back and forth on who I'd like us to face on Sunday. Ultimately I want no part of this potentially very poignant/emotional occasion for Ukraine. God bless them but I have huge concerns over the conduct of the officials in such circumstances. We'll get to see how today pans out but it's difficult not to see visions of Eurovision 2.0 if the opportunity presents itself. Gimme the Scots in a normal game of football all day long. Winner takes it all. Lfg.
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Post by welshrover on Jun 1, 2022 12:40:11 GMT
As my other half is Scottish I personally want Ukraine to win tonight otherwise it will be murder in our household on Sunday!!
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wft
savage
It's gone out for a throw in.
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Post by wft on Jun 1, 2022 13:51:00 GMT
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Post by quetzal on Jun 1, 2022 14:12:53 GMT
What are you? Some wee Jock on acid?
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Post by pooler on Jun 1, 2022 14:14:03 GMT
I heard that the Scottish have agreed to sing the Ukrainian national anthem with the Ukrainian fans (I'm not sure how many away fans there'll be). That's a nice gesture.
It goes without saying that I want Cymru to get through. That doesn't mean we can't admire the solidarity that is shown towards Ukraine.
This is the best chance we will get to go to a world cup - possibly in many of our lives. With the likes of Davies, Bale, Ramsey, Allen etc,looking to retire shortly, it's hard to see us to replicate our recent form with the future squad. I'm not saying that our younger players aren't good, all I'm saying is that it will take a lot of time for us to build another world-beating squad.
Cymru Am Byth
Yma o Hyd
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Post by abwales on Jun 1, 2022 14:53:31 GMT
I don't know who I want us to play. Ukraine are a massive unknown that we'll find out about tonight. Can't we just play the losers? I think our lack of momentum is such a huge disadvantage.
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Post by insertname on Jun 1, 2022 15:00:48 GMT
I don't think the world wanting Ukraine to win will have a bearing at all on how we would prepare for a game with them, nor how the game would go It's irrelevant to me & won't be that much of a circus because it's only Thurs/Fri/Sat that we have to hear about it from the English press It shouldn’t affect the preparation but having to wade through all the bollocks in the news and goading as a fan is draining when it’s Wales v Scotland or England never mind when it’s as emotive a subject as war and everyone wants you to lose. Basically the Christian Eriksen effect was bad enough but this will knock that into a cocked hat if Ukraine goes through. Mr picton put it best: “I want no part of that” - that’s exactly how I feel.
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Post by allezlesrouges on Jun 1, 2022 15:32:02 GMT
I don't think the world wanting Ukraine to win will have a bearing at all on how we would prepare for a game with them, nor how the game would go It's irrelevant to me & won't be that much of a circus because it's only Thurs/Fri/Sat that we have to hear about it from the English press It shouldn’t affect the preparation but having to wade through all the bollocks in the news and goading as a fan is draining when it’s Wales v Scotland or England never mind when it’s as emotive a subject as war and everyone wants you to lose. Basically the Christian Eriksen effect was bad enough but this will knock that into a cocked hat if Ukraine goes through. Mr picton put it best: “I want no part of that” - that’s exactly how I feel. The Erikson thing had just happened when we played them, it was fresher. If we played Ukraine when we were supposed to I'd agree, but it's less of a buzz topic now & won't feel as overwhelming I don't think
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Post by insertname on Jun 1, 2022 16:58:12 GMT
It shouldn’t affect the preparation but having to wade through all the bollocks in the news and goading as a fan is draining when it’s Wales v Scotland or England never mind when it’s as emotive a subject as war and everyone wants you to lose. Basically the Christian Eriksen effect was bad enough but this will knock that into a cocked hat if Ukraine goes through. Mr picton put it best: “I want no part of that” - that’s exactly how I feel. The Erikson thing had just happened when we played them, it was fresher. If we played Ukraine when we were supposed to I'd agree, but it's less of a buzz topic now & won't feel as overwhelming I don't think We’ll see tonight. A Ukrainian National was saying on the BBC sport pages that he’s glad the game was postponed to now because Ukraine fell off the news pages and this will put it back front and Center. That’s how it feels to me, a reminder of all the evil that’s going on in the world, on top of the current financial issues. I hope you’re right, but I think (if Ukraine win) the time between tonight and the final whistle on Sunday will be a circus. I bet ITV will go balls deep too by having Shevchenko, Rebrov and a Ukraine supporting former England player on the panel along with a token Welshman.
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Post by dai on Jun 1, 2022 19:08:06 GMT
Ukraine looking very dangerous, should be ahead.
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Post by insertname on Jun 1, 2022 19:08:26 GMT
That camp looks like it’s done wonders for Ukraine. Giving the Jocks lots of problems and they actually seem to be showing a lot more guile than the Shevcheno era in the Euros
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Post by insertname on Jun 1, 2022 19:13:37 GMT
I feel shagged out just as a spectator, being played at a frenetic pace. I wonder if Ukraine can keep this up? The speed of their passing in attack could give us problems
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Post by dai on Jun 1, 2022 19:21:38 GMT
Think we're going to see some fireworks now, 0-1 Ukraine!
Ukraine look worryingly very good and up for playing.........think I may prefer to play Scotland after this opening 35 mins.
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