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Post by cogancoronation31 on Dec 2, 2022 10:50:36 GMT
On the 'rebuild' generally... we need to find more firepower from somewhere!
It should not escape us that we have not scored a single goal from open play in the last five tournament games - England, Iran, USA (it was a pen), Denmark, Italy.
Let's start the way we mean to go on by at least finding the net - not only from a penalty/free kick - against Croatia in Split in the Euro qualifier in March (seems a long time away!)
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Post by rushy on Dec 2, 2022 15:50:03 GMT
The issue is so clearly the midfield, I can't believe people are talking about huge changes to the defence including playing clearly inferior players I have never seen a midfield FIVE look so wide open as ours was, incredible ! |
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Post by cadno on Dec 2, 2022 20:53:09 GMT
Ok so I’ve been thinking about this a bit, and I have some thoughts on moving forward.
As a centre back, Rodon’s positioning is a weakness for me. This doesn’t mean he’s a bad player, and won’t get good at that role- far from it. He is tall, strong and good on the ball. I would like to see him moved out to right back like we’ve seen France do with Benjamin Pavard. He would be so useful there, he’d get up and down when needed and he’s decent defending one on one.
When we face sides like Poland, Serbia, Croatia, one thing they have is athletic and strong players. I am worried about us defensively, we look so easy to break down these days so to begin with my focus would be on sorting this out. I’d go for a back 4 of Rodon Mepham Ampadu Davies.
Tall, physical, strong. Ampadu is a leader, he reads the game superbly, and he’s good at organising those around him. I’d be open to trying Lockyer or Cabango out there to allow Ampadu to play a CDM role though.
Moving on to midfield, Joe Allen is clearly still our best CM, next I’d put Morrell, then Levitt and Smith. Anyone else? Is it worth looking at Lee Evans, Sheehan, Jordan James, Luke Harris?
For the 8 or 10 role I’d stick with Ramsey, but Brooks, Harris, Oli Cooper, Wilson, T Roberts and Joniesta can play this role too.
On to the wingers, Neco can play there for me; he’s good at taking players on and has a decent delivery. I’d also look at Sorba and Connor there too. Other options : Hedges, DJ, Brennan, Bale, Lawrence, Matondo, Brooks and Wilson… anyone else?
Up top Moore, M Harris, Bale, Brennan, Bradshaw… Vokes… and who else?
4231
Hennessey
Rodon Mepham Ampadu Davies
Allen Morrell
Brooks Ramsey Brennan
Bale/Moore
Please move clubs Gareth and get regular football under your belt!! Also let’s pray Levitt or someone else steps up in the next few years, replacing Joe Allen will be so difficult.
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Post by welshwhite on Dec 2, 2022 22:00:18 GMT
Back in the real world, sadly Gethin Jones, Owen Beck, nor Aaron Collins should be anywhere near the national squad on the basis of what I've seen tonight Bolton v. Bristol Rovers!
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Post by CrackityJones on Dec 3, 2022 9:20:55 GMT
Rodon at right back is hilarious fair play
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Post by aberbeeg on Dec 3, 2022 9:28:04 GMT
I agree but probably not as bad as Davies at left back 😁
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Post by iot on Dec 3, 2022 10:29:16 GMT
Like your out-the-box thinking and can see some of the logic. But it's very unlikely that we'll start playing people, particularly multiple players (Rodon RB / Necon winger), in positions that they never play at club level. To be fair you did suggest that Wilson should drop back before Page actually implemented it, although I don't think we can say that's been successful to date.
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Post by talyfan on Dec 3, 2022 10:38:57 GMT
Bale shouldn't start unless he's 100% match fit and can at least last 60 minutes. We saw from the world cup we completely overcompensated for him both offensively and defensively when pressing from the front just to provide that "spark", which at times he's done in the past but in order for us to get that spark out of him he's got to somewhat be in the match to enable that. We are effectively playing down with 10.
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Post by mortillsy on Dec 3, 2022 12:07:32 GMT
Back in the real world, sadly Gethin Jones, Owen Beck, nor Aaron Collins should be anywhere near the national squad on the basis of what I've seen tonight Bolton v. Bristol Rovers! Shame! How bad was Beck? Did Hoole play for Rovers? |
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Post by marsvolta on Dec 3, 2022 12:36:15 GMT
Interesting that there is a lot being made of the good team spirit in the England camp.
When we talk about good team spirit it’s portrayed as ‘like being on a stag do’.
The only difference is that England are winning and we are not so I don’t think that good team spirit is the problem.
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Post by welshwhite on Dec 3, 2022 20:31:55 GMT
Back in the real world, sadly Gethin Jones, Owen Beck, nor Aaron Collins should be anywhere near the national squad on the basis of what I've seen tonight Bolton v. Bristol Rovers! Shame! How bad was Beck? Did Hoole play for Rovers? Oh, completely forgot about Hoole, no, he didn't feature, just double checked and he wasn't amongst the subs either. Beck wasn't 'bad', shows some nice touches going forward, another WB who just can't defend, isn't ready for men's football yet. Looks like League 1 could snap him in half at any time. Comparing him to his fellow Liverpool loanee Connor Bradley on the other side, who's younger than Beck but looks the real deal and hit the ground running. Same with Collins, tidy player but alongside Josh Coburn, 19-year-old lad on loan from Middlesborough, you can tell there is a difference in class and potential. MJ made a difference when he came on, Sheehan needs games, he's class. Fk knows what's happening with Declan, something seriously amiss there. |
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Post by mikeduffy1 on Dec 3, 2022 21:40:40 GMT
My thoughts are that Bale and Ramsey didnt get much club game time to be fit,the Nations League matches came at the wrong time too.
Ideally if we had played Ukraine when it was first arranged we could have gone into the Nations league game on a high and had those games to try out different formations and tactics
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Post by wrex27 on Dec 3, 2022 23:17:04 GMT
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Post by cadno on Dec 4, 2022 18:16:20 GMT
Like your out-the-box thinking and can see some of the logic. But it's very unlikely that we'll start playing people, particularly multiple players (Rodon RB / Necon winger), in positions that they never play at club level. To be fair you did suggest that Wilson should drop back before Page actually implemented it, although I don't think we can say that's been successful to date. Thanks for giving a tidy response unlike the pointless snide comment from CrackityJones Yeah, we’re unlikely to see it happen but given his pace and size he’d be a difficult full back for a lot of wingers to come up against. CB is a harder position, but Rodon’s clearly good so it would be a shame to drop him. I agree Wilson as a cm didn’t quite work this tournament, maybe HW and Rambo were too attack minded with Ampadu for a midfield 3? And perhaps having 2 more traditional/defensively minded cm like Allen and Ampadu with one of Wilson or Ramsey would work better? I’d like to see what Lockyer and Cabango can offer, is there any opportunity to organise a friendly in next years Calendar? We could really do with fixtures against quality opposition such as Brazil or Argentina. |
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Post by marsvolta on Dec 4, 2022 18:18:23 GMT
Shows how far behind we are when England fans are going crazy because Rashford has been dropped for Saka while we argue whether Oli Cooper would be a better unused sub than Jonny Williams.
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Post by insertname on Dec 4, 2022 18:37:21 GMT
Interesting that there is a lot being made of the good team spirit in the England camp. When we talk about good team spirit it’s portrayed as ‘like being on a stag do’. The only difference is that England are winning and we are not so I don’t think that good team spirit is the problem. You know how it works - if England were losing and being embarrassed then the conditions in the camp would be the first thing they would point to. For me it remains a valid criticism- just because it worked previously does not absolve it from exemption from the inquest into why we were so poor in this tournament. I've tried to be more understanding about it than most but seeing the US (who I saw a lot of people predicting to beat the Dutch) be swept aside with ease starts to make me think I might have over-estimated the quality of our group and makes it harder to defend our results and performances. Whether or not the atmosphere in the camp was too much carrot and not enough stick it's fairly clear that our players were not coming into this tournament in ideal form, possibly fitness too. |
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Post by scarfer on Dec 4, 2022 21:35:36 GMT
Rodon puts in consistent challenges when we are under pressure in the central areas of the pitch - no way does he go out on the right. we have Roberts & Neco who can play there...more than enough talent there. no point creating another issue & adding him into the mix.
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Post by scarfer on Dec 4, 2022 21:47:36 GMT
we can almost say 100% that Gunter will retire. he has been phased out of the squad, & is now playing in L2 - that definitely plays a part. if he were still in the Championship or high L1, I would be less certain.
there are others too which could potentially retire soon (Ramsey, Allen).
I would be less certain that Bale retires due to him stating previously he wants to carry on until after the qualifiers for 2024 Euros.
Hennessey I'm less certain of too. being a Gk, he has the potential to carry on later than outfield players (think I have said this before; not sure which thread).
Jonny Williams - not pushing himself enough IMO. (again, I think I've written about him before) I would choose Vaulks over him.
on the whole, this is a time of transition, which we have all been wary of for years now. I don't feel this period will be as extreme as it was 15 years ago when the likes of Speed, Harrison etc., retired. it's time for youngblood to come through.
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Post by scarfer on Dec 4, 2022 21:51:01 GMT
also, furthermore...
I think our scouts should only be looking at L2 players if we're really in need of them. in order to compete with the best, I think we need to keep above this level. I guess there could be an exception (say for example a player was banging them in at that level, and was very young)...
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Post by dai on Dec 4, 2022 22:36:27 GMT
Bit bored this eve, so was thinking about formation. I'd really like to see what D James can do at WB. He's arguably one of our fittest players and is excellent at tracking back and defending. He's effectiveness up front had wax and waned a lot over the past two years, and I don't think he's creating enough in the final third to warrant a place up top. However due to his ability to get up and down the field with ease, I think he could be tried at WB. Having watched Holland vs USA yesterday, their WB's pushed much higher up the pitch than what ours do. Neco is till reasonably effective, but Roberts has become pretty negative in that role now. I'm prepared to be scoffed and mocked at by the usuals on here, but this is an idea that we should really consider. Apart from Neco, we don't have anyone else who can fulfill that role well enough - maybe RND.
Hennessey
Ampadu - Mepham - B Davies
Neco - Allen - Morrell - D James
Ramsey
Johnson - Moore
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Post by redwallnews on Dec 4, 2022 23:28:27 GMT
Jonny Williams - not pushing himself enough IMO. (again, I think I've written about him before) I would choose Vaulks over him. Vaulks haha come on now. |
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Post by marsvolta on Dec 5, 2022 0:13:02 GMT
Ignoring everything else, Vaulks doesn’t even play in the same position as Jonny Williams.
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Post by marsvolta on Dec 5, 2022 0:27:36 GMT
As far as I’m concerned, we have 36 players who are serious contenders. I’m not convinced on anyone outside this 36 so In my opinion we need to blood some youngsters or find some others who qualify from somewhere rather than hoping the likes of Hughes, Bradshaw, Fox and Vaulks are the answer.
My 36-
- The 26 who went to the World Cup
- the three invited to travel (Cooper, Harris and James)
- the two that missed out through injury (Brooks and RND)
- at an absolute push, the ones on the outskirts (Hedges, Tyler, Burns and Matondo)
- Tom Lawrence who is injured but out of favour anyway.
Outside that 36 I’m afraid that it’s just lower division journeymen who wouldn’t improve the squad whatsoever. Happy to be proved wrong but it’s either those 36 or some u21s promoted for me
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Post by eppingblue1 on Dec 5, 2022 8:43:23 GMT
How's Charlie Savage progressing? Surprised to see he's older than Jude Bellingham. Desperately need a real star or 2 out of the current crop of youngsters.
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Post by insertname on Dec 5, 2022 10:27:19 GMT
He’s in the first team squad to play some friendlies in Spain. Man United fans online talk about their young players all the time, guess it’s part of their club identity to focus on players coming through. Never see them mention Savage at all, which seems at odds with the reviews he was getting for his friendly appearances in the summer.
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Post by scarfer on Dec 5, 2022 12:53:31 GMT
I don't see what is wrong with Vaulks. yes ok I got it wrong, he is a holding midfielder, whereas Jonny is attacking. so, I'd go for Colwill to be the like for like asap for Jonny, & include Vaulks as another midfielder so we're not low on numbers in the middle
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Post by scarfer on Dec 5, 2022 12:53:56 GMT
I think it's more laughable that Jonny is chosen over Vaulks to be honest
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Post by redwallnews on Dec 5, 2022 13:06:43 GMT
I'd take Jonny over Vaulks all day every day.
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Post by marsvolta on Dec 5, 2022 13:12:32 GMT
I think it's more laughable that Jonny is chosen over Vaulks to be honest I'd take Jonny over Vaulks all day every day. Yup |
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Post by 60sred on Dec 5, 2022 13:51:05 GMT
Charlie needs to break away from Man Utd and ask for a loan or transfer come 1st of Jan. He needs to be playing games where results matter not just reserve/friendly matches. i am most surprised that Robbie has not spoken to him about this.
i think most footballers when approaching 20 would have hoped to have had a season of competitive matches behind them , i would have a guess he has played less than 10, if he is going to be one for the future it needs to start now.
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