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Post by conwy10 on Nov 25, 2022 16:03:48 GMT
Obviously, with good reason, there's calls for a rebuilding of the national team. Without going too far off topic how do people suggest realistic changes are made?
Page is on a long contract and no one will come in for him, so we have to stick by him as manager. Obviously need to be more wary giving out long contracts in the future.
Bale and Ramsey I think we have to stick with, but with their roles in the squad more dependent on game time and form at club level. No harm in them being on the bench.
Arrange a friendly vs New Zealand for Hennessey and Gunter to sign off on. Hennessey has been class for us but I think we need to go with Ward now he's getting game time.
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Post by aberbeeg on Nov 25, 2022 16:08:45 GMT
Do we need more games for these players to “ sign off” surely this should be their send off. Any chance of getting Rob page to have a send off ?
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Post by bobbyghoul on Nov 25, 2022 16:11:10 GMT
I'm assuming Page has a break clause in his contract after Euro 24 qualification.
Ward will come in now and the rest of the back 5 are young enough to continue.
We'll see Moore playing up front with Johnson/James for a couple of years yet. Brooks may well figure in the future too.
It's midfield that worries me. I'm reasonably happy with Ampadu in there but by god do we need some more players to come in. Maybe Cooper, Harris and James can develop into what we need there. Wilson is young enough but I'm not sure he's ever going to be good enough.
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Post by vaulksthrowfanclub on Nov 25, 2022 16:12:41 GMT
Worrying that Page said there were ‘tired bodies’ in his pre-match press conference, and only made one change (dropping one of our fittest players).
I think the players should take majority of the blame as they couldn’t get the basics right. But the team selection from the start was iffy at best with no pace.
Going forward:
It’s sad, as they are like your loyal dogs you’ve had since childhood, but Rambo and Bale need phasing out as we look to the future as they are no longer even 60 minute players.
Poole for Gunter if a utility man is needed, probably Cooper in for Joniesta too.
I’d like to see Terry Taylor brought in and assessed as a defensive midfield option.
As the big man up top seems to be a useful tactic, I’d also ensure Marcus Dackers gets an u21 call-up in the first instance.
I’d probably be looking at this team to start post World Cup:
Ward
Neco Mepham Rodon Davies
Ampadu Allen
Johnson Wilson James
Moore
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Post by conwy10 on Nov 25, 2022 16:20:59 GMT
I think we need to change to 2 up top. Maybe Moore and James to hunt in a pack.
I do get the feeling we could turn into the likes of Bulgaria/Ireland who disappear when their top stars retired.
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Post by talyfan on Nov 25, 2022 16:22:47 GMT
Really need to get a system of play/principles and stick to it. The last few games I've watched I really couldn't say what our tactics and principles are.
Do we want to play vertical passes and get it up the pitch as quick as possible?
Play out from the back, constrict our opponents and press intensively high up the pitch?
Do we want to be a solid defensive unit and play on the break?
I've not seen any evidence of this recently it has just been isolated moments of shear brilliance and people putting a shift in.
If it were me I strip us back, become difficult to beat and try beat teams on the break with the players we've got going forward.
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Post by jackanapes on Nov 25, 2022 16:30:26 GMT
I think Bale has to go for the next qualifiers, unless he’s happy to be a sub option. Ramsey still has lots to offer, but he needs to be playing regularly and the balance in midfield needs to be better. When he’s misfiring he puts the team under pressure so you need two holding midfielders - these should be whoever is fit and in form.
I’m absolutely convinced that most of our problems are due to a lack of fitness and sharpness. Hoping that undercooked players will produce miracles is a gambler’s strategy. The message needs to go out that regular football is a prerequisite for selection. Too many of our boys are coasting at club level. We need hungry players.
Next Nation League really needs to be given over to pushing on players like Colwill, Cooper and Levitt. Colwill needs a move if he isn’t getting game time at Cardiff. We really need to look at bedding in youngsters without compromising results too much.
With Bale finished I think we need to play to our strengths. Moore with James and Johnson as wingers seems natural to me, with Colwill or Ramsey as playmaker.
We’ve actually got a decent enough squad but selection needs to be on form and these boys need time in the pitch together to gel. This was a tournament too far for the old guard, but we don’t need to dump them wholesale. A few can still do a job, but they need to take a backseat unless they’re playing and performing consistently.
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Post by jimexotic on Nov 25, 2022 16:37:23 GMT
One of the most important things we need any players that want to play for Wales to do is play regularly at the highest level they can. The likes of Colwill sitting on the bench for Cardiff, Bale and Ramsey drifting through seasons, Hennessey and Ward spending years as benchwarmers, Rodon at 25 only having 71 career league starts, it all culminates in us being a bit of disjointed mess. You can handle a few being bit part players but throughout the squad it's gone on for too long.
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Post by conwy10 on Nov 25, 2022 16:38:24 GMT
I think Bale has to go for the next qualifiers, unless he’s happy to be a sub option. Ramsey still has lots to offer, but he needs to be playing regularly and the balance in midfield needs to be better. When he’s misfiring he puts the team under pressure so you need two holding midfielders - these should be whoever is fit and in form. I’m absolutely convinced that most of our problems are due to a lack of fitness and sharpness. Hoping that undercooked players will produce miracles is a gambler’s strategy. The message needs to go out that regular football is a prerequisite for selection. Too many of our boys are coasting at club level. We need hungry players. Next Nation League really needs to be given over to pushing on players like Colwill, Cooper and Levitt. Colwill needs a move if he isn’t getting game time at Cardiff. We really need to look at bedding in youngsters without compromising results too much. With Bale finished I think we need to play to our strengths. Moore with James and Johnson as wingers seems natural to me, with Colwill or Ramsey as playmaker. We’ve actually got a decent enough squad but selection needs to be on form and these boys need time in the pitch together to gel. This was a tournament too far for the old guard, but we don’t need to dump them wholesale. A few can still do a job, but they need to take a backseat unless they’re playing and performing consistently. I thought 2 holding midfielders is a must for us too, we always seem to play that way until recently. Changing the system for a tournament abandoning what got you to the tournament seems a bit crazy to me. |
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Post by conwy10 on Nov 25, 2022 16:41:14 GMT
I'd like to see us try and get our players to take risks at club football. Try their hand in Germany, Portugal, Netherlands. We don't half stay close to home. Every other country seems to have players playing the world over.
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Post by ddirpytnop on Nov 25, 2022 16:59:59 GMT
We gave up on two holding midfielders in order to accommodate all our 'best' players. If we don't have include Bale and Ramsey henceforth, we can return to two holding mids. The problem though is quality. Allen is coming to the end of his career and we have yet to identify who is going to replace him. I am not convinced Amps is that sort of player, Morrell ultimat3ly lacks sufficient quality and we haven't seen Levitt deliver on his potential yet. If there are players outside of the squad who can do so, I haven't seen them.
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Post by rushy on Nov 25, 2022 17:08:23 GMT
No doubt we are looking at a rebuild, but first on the agenda is whether to keep Page in charge after the WC, personally I've seen enough.
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Post by 60sred on Nov 25, 2022 17:09:25 GMT
I'd like to see us try and get our players to take risks at club football. Try their hand in Germany, Portugal, Netherlands. We don't half stay close to home. Every other country seems to have players playing the world over. Great point but how do you convince players to go abroad when agents say you can earn 3 or 4 times as much sitting on the bench at say a championship or prem club. You might even find that Wrexham under their ownership can pay as much as some of the other european leagues |
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Post by flutterdinho on Nov 25, 2022 17:17:48 GMT
I think Page needs and deserves an amount of credit for what he has done - I'm a fan. He has a contract and will be around for the next tournament. I'm guessing he will be amongst the lowest paid managers at the tournament.
However, he did get things wrong. There is a reluctance to drop Bale and Ramsey. We haven't been set up right for either game so far. We do need to build a new identity for Germany.
That doesn't need to be without Bale and Ramsey. Just not over-reliant on them.
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Post by nwcherries on Nov 25, 2022 17:31:26 GMT
Very disappointing tournament performance to see from a neutral perspective. Agree with you that you need to start moving on from the “stars” and start properly bedding in some new blood. For me, your clutch/talismanic player recently has been Moore, so to not be starting him in the first game is a very stupid decision. I’ve also always been very lukewarm on H. Wilson; not convinced by him at all, far too much of a passenger especially when playing alongside the oldies. Especially when he’s barely match fit.
You have a good spine of players to work with for the next few years; Moore, Mepham, (hopefully) Brooks, Johnson, Rodon, Ward, Williams, James. All are top flight regulars. The recent mistakes from a neutral perspective have been a coddling of out of form/out of fitness stars and “buddy” players. Whether there are better options that have been mismanaged I’m not sure but I did raise an eyebrow at someone like Gunther or J. Williams being in the squad, for example.
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Post by conwy10 on Nov 25, 2022 17:32:16 GMT
I'd like to see us try and get our players to take risks at club football. Try their hand in Germany, Portugal, Netherlands. We don't half stay close to home. Every other country seems to have players playing the world over. Great point but how do you convince players to go abroad when agents say you can earn 3 or 4 times as much sitting on the bench at say a championship or prem club. You might even find that Wrexham under their ownership can pay as much as some of the other european leagues True, just hope some could see the long game. I do think these countries like USA, Iran, their players must have incredible mental strength to move to another continent backing themselves to make it as a player. Leaving families behind, living with essentially a foster family. |
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Post by morg on Nov 25, 2022 17:38:34 GMT
Great point but how do you convince players to go abroad when agents say you can earn 3 or 4 times as much sitting on the bench at say a championship or prem club. You might even find that Wrexham under their ownership can pay as much as some of the other european leagues True, just hope some could see the long game. I do think these countries like USA, Iran, their players must have incredible mental strength to move to another continent backing themselves to make it as a player. Leaving families behind, living with essentially a foster family. Thought this was impressive. Left Arsenal at 16 for Spain because he thought he was ready for first team football. www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/63588529 |
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Post by jimexotic on Nov 25, 2022 17:39:11 GMT
I'd like to see us try and get our players to take risks at club football. Try their hand in Germany, Portugal, Netherlands. We don't half stay close to home. Every other country seems to have players playing the world over. Quite a few of our lads have had spells abroad or are currently playing abroad Bale, Ramsey, Moore, Ampadu, Rodon, Matondo We've probably got more than England, Scotland, Northern Ireland and Republic of Ireland combined but it isn't enough. Playing regularly is a good starting point, there's no better experience than playing regular football, wherever that may be. |
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Post by 1282 on Nov 25, 2022 17:42:32 GMT
Obviously, with good reason, there's calls for a rebuilding of the national team. Without going too far off topic how do people suggest realistic changes are made? Page is on a long contract and no one will come in for him, so we have to stick by him as manager. Obviously need to be more wary giving out long contracts in the future. Bale and Ramsey I think we have to stick with, but with their roles in the squad more dependent on game time and form at club level. No harm in them being on the bench. Arrange a friendly vs New Zealand for Hennessey and Gunter to sign off on. Hennessey has been class for us but I think we need to go with Ward now he's getting game time. Can’t carry on with page think he’s way above his level. Dreadful performance during the WC got lucky In the qualifiers aswell. |
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Post by jimexotic on Nov 25, 2022 17:59:50 GMT
15 years on, looks like we're going to have to do it all again.
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Post by morg on Nov 25, 2022 18:06:16 GMT
Very disappointing tournament performance to see from a neutral perspective. Agree with you that you need to start moving on from the “stars” and start properly bedding in some new blood. For me, your clutch/talismanic player recently has been Moore, so to not be starting him in the first game is a very stupid decision. I’ve also always been very lukewarm on H. Wilson; not convinced by him at all, far too much of a passenger especially when playing alongside the oldies. Especially when he’s barely match fit. You have a good spine of players to work with for the next few years; Moore, Mepham, (hopefully) Brooks, Johnson, Rodon, Ward, Williams, James. All are top flight regulars. The recent mistakes from a neutral perspective have been a coddling of out of form/out of fitness stars and “buddy” players. Whether there are better options that have been mismanaged I’m not sure but I did raise an eyebrow at someone like Gunther or J. Williams being in the squad, for example. Cheers nw. I'd agree with most of that. Any news on Brooks? |
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Post by marsvolta on Nov 25, 2022 18:45:51 GMT
15 years on, looks like we're going to have to do it all again. Not really. Ampadu, Rodon, Johnson, James, Williams and Mepham will be the backbone of the team for a good few years yet and there’s also plenty of life still in Connor, Sorba and Ward . Add those to prospects like Luke Harris, Colwill and Cooper and we’ve got plenty to work with to start the new era. |
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Post by aberbeeg on Nov 25, 2022 18:55:12 GMT
I think Page needs and deserves an amount of credit for what he has done - I'm a fan. He has a contract and will be around for the next tournament. I'm guessing he will be amongst the lowest paid managers at the tournament. However, he did get things wrong. There is a reluctance to drop Bale and Ramsey. We haven't been set up right for either game so far. We do need to build a new identity for Germany. That doesn't need to be without Bale and Ramsey. Just not over-reliant on them. You think page deserves another chance then say he got things completely wrong. Truth being told he’s ( yet again) been out thought in tactics the same as he was in the last Euros. He’s also not learnt from our abysmal performance in the first game. His in game management is simply pathetic. He took off the only legs we had in midfield ( Ampudu) and brought on Joe Allen whos first touch was to give the ball away for the first goal. Toothless,aging, embarrassing,Pathetic are just a few headlines flying around from the press ( including Welsh press) tonight. |
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Post by robin1864 on Nov 25, 2022 19:12:45 GMT
I'd like to see us try and get our players to take risks at club football. Try their hand in Germany, Portugal, Netherlands. We don't half stay close to home. Every other country seems to have players playing the world over. If some of our lads can't get off the bench for PL/Championship sides, I don't know what a foreign side would see in them, nor why they'd move in for a transfer. Rabbi got a move because at the time he was a promising young talent, the other end of the scale is James Lawrence who sulked off to Slovakia after not being able to hack it in Dutch football, and a European adventure hasn't done him much good from a Welsh perspective. I'd honestly just be happy with players who made an effort to play regular games, rather than a handful of appearances a season. On the subject of rebuilding, I'd argue we've failed to replace key players from 2016 - Ash Williams being most notable, with honourable mentions to Chester and Vokes. Defensively we look Sunday League at times, and only having one out-and-out striking option kills us when opposing teams sus out Moore. With Page, it's baffling how he was given such a long contract after such a lacking display at Euro 2020. |
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Post by hooky on Nov 25, 2022 19:17:19 GMT
Matondo has energy and is just 22
Why was he not picked in the squad at least?
As stated - if someone is not actually going to play - then take a youngster like Luke Harris rather than Gunter. Gunter contributed negatively to our campaign and our Nations League games. He should never have been near a squad.
Lawrence is injured but was not given a chance.
Really - loyalty is a bullshit concept when people are not up to the job or there are better options. You should always try to look forwards and not back!
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Post by hooky on Nov 25, 2022 19:19:51 GMT
Obviously, with good reason, there's calls for a rebuilding of the national team. Without going too far off topic how do people suggest realistic changes are made? Page is on a long contract and no one will come in for him, so we have to stick by him as manager. Obviously need to be more wary giving out long contracts in the future. Bale and Ramsey I think we have to stick with, but with their roles in the squad more dependent on game time and form at club level. No harm in them being on the bench. Arrange a friendly vs New Zealand for Hennessey and Gunter to sign off on. Hennessey has been class for us but I think we need to go with Ward now he's getting game time. Sign off. No no. Had enough of this sentimentality shit. Goodbye to those not good enough and time to look forwards! This is not a sympathy shop - its supposed to be an elite sport team! |
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Post by aberbeeg on Nov 25, 2022 19:59:25 GMT
Pub team do sign offs
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Post by conwy10 on Nov 25, 2022 20:06:20 GMT
Obviously, with good reason, there's calls for a rebuilding of the national team. Without going too far off topic how do people suggest realistic changes are made? Page is on a long contract and no one will come in for him, so we have to stick by him as manager. Obviously need to be more wary giving out long contracts in the future. Bale and Ramsey I think we have to stick with, but with their roles in the squad more dependent on game time and form at club level. No harm in them being on the bench. Arrange a friendly vs New Zealand for Hennessey and Gunter to sign off on. Hennessey has been class for us but I think we need to go with Ward now he's getting game time. Sign off. No no. Had enough of this sentimentality shit. Goodbye to those not good enough and time to look forwards! This is not a sympathy shop - its supposed to be an elite sport team! They've both got over 100 caps. We need to do things right. 3 tournaments and a bigger contribution than most. I know we're hurting but we can't be heartless. |
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Post by aberbeeg on Nov 25, 2022 20:07:55 GMT
Sign off. No no. Had enough of this sentimentality shit. Goodbye to those not good enough and time to look forwards! This is not a sympathy shop - its supposed to be an elite sport team! They've both got over 100 caps. We need to do things right. 3 tournaments and a bigger contribution than most. I know we're hurting but we can't be heartless. The likes of Gunter has had 2 tournaments more than he should have ffs |
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Post by conwy10 on Nov 25, 2022 20:55:19 GMT
So that makes them wrong? |
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