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Post by cymruchris on Nov 25, 2022 21:09:13 GMT
Yep agree. From midfield looking so strong in 2016-18 period it looks very flimsy now with options and losing the experience in near future.
Aside from that the structure won't change much. Defence is still young and ultimately up to 97th minute today it had conceded one goal in two world cup games. And we know it can be relied upon in qualifiers to withstand long spells of pressure.
One thing I would do is make Ben Davies captain after this tournament. He's one of the big hitters that has actually turned up, starts most games for CL team and his experience remains invaluable.
Beyond that you'd like to think a mix of Moore, James, Wilson, Johnson + others will be threatening v bottom 2-3 seeds in the group so I won't go OTT and say qualification hopes will end the minute Bale retires.
Who knows, once he goes the next Ian Rush will probably emerge. Even in this glory decade still lacked that reliable CF even if there's been some fantastic moments from Robson-Kanu, Vokes and Moore.
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Post by dai on Nov 25, 2022 22:43:56 GMT
I still think Bale will retire after the WC, so that decision will be out of Pages' hands.
Ramsey will continue to be a bit part player, but won't be a guaranteed starter when fit.
Allen I think, once fit, will still be a starter. An Allen/Ampadu partnership is still decent imo. He's a lot more reliable and consistent than Ramsey.
Really need to decide if 5 at the back is the way forward for this team and squad, how often does it actually work? Very rarely.
We need to utilise players who are actually PLAYING regularly at a decent level - Hedges, Fox, Hughes, Lawrence etc
Discover a style of playing. Speed introduced this almost 'total football' style of playing similar to the Dutch. Coleman introduced a rock solid defence as a foundation and we built on from that. Giggs introduced a bit of flair and creativity. Page hasn't stamped his mark on the team AT ALL. I remember saying during the Euro's last year that we look poor as a team overall, and we have no playing style - NOTHING HAS CHANGED. We still don't have a style and we look lost at times on the pitch, relying on individual moments to often win games.
I'm gutted they've given Page a 4 year contract tbh, he should have been judged after this WC. Saudi Arabia, Japan, Tunisia, Morocco have similar squad qualities to us, yet they looked miles better on the pitch.
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Post by allezlesrouges on Nov 25, 2022 22:44:36 GMT
I think you have to look at it with a completely fresh set of eyes now. When you take over as a manager you look at what your strengths and weaknesses are and look to build around them
For me strengths are having an awkward target man, pace and a pretty solid defence. Weaknesses are an inability to play through teams, and keep possession in midfield
I think when you look at it like that it's clear Bale & Ramsey are no longer our strength. Moving on from them doesn't mean completely dropping them, but letting them be bench options is probably the move (if they don't retire)
I really liked Iran's 4-4-2 today. They were stubborn, could press high or drop off, were very quick to break, and used the width far better than us. If we played something similar I think we'd do well
Ward
Neco-Mepham-Rodon-Davies
James-Ampadu-Morrell-Brooks
Moore-Brennan
That would be an excellent side, but the big thing we're missing there is an out and out striker to play alongside Moore. I like the idea of wingers getting down the line and crossing to Moore, and overlapping runs (we haven't done any overlaps at all this World Cup & I think the wing back system is to blame for that). With a 4-4-2 we don't need to worry about trying to dominate the ball, which we are rubbish at anyway, it would all be about speed when we win it back
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Post by saturn9 on Nov 25, 2022 23:15:14 GMT
Won't happen, but I'd like to see Os/Bellamy as part of a rebuild.
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Post by bale-droed on Nov 26, 2022 2:06:09 GMT
Ok so it’s a while away but imagining the first qualifier this is what I want.
1. I’d like to see Lockyer come in for mepham. Lockyer is now our new Tom Bradshaw 🤣 mr underrated. Deserves a chance and over the next 2 campaigns he will be 28-32.
2. Put Neco where Roberts goes and Norrington-Davies where Neco is. I have wet dreams thinking about Neco and Norrington starting.
3. Ampadu starts in midfield. Ampadus future is CB. When he’s 26-33 he’s going to be a top level cb but for 2024 we need him in midfield along side Morrell. No Ramsey fancy failed tricks just a Morrell precise boring pass please.
4. Start Colwill and Johnson. They work well together and now it’s time to throw them at the deep end
5. The obvious- Ward starts in the premiership so he has to start for Wales
6. Thanks for everything Gunter and J Williams we love you and always will but goodbye.
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Post by jimexotic on Nov 26, 2022 2:34:14 GMT
For years, despite the togetherness of the team, it's almost always felt like Bale and the other guys and sometimes Bale, Ramsey and the other guys. I think the time is coming where we become more of a team, not just reliant on a Bale free kick or moment of magic to pull us through. Players like Moore, James, Johnson and Wilson need to become the new attacking sparks for us, players like Matondo need to come into he picture, Colwill needs to find a club that will play him and stake his claim, Cooper needs to be involved now. We have talent, we just need to use it more. Bale and Ramsey were nothing more than a hindrance today, they offered nothing, they were wasteful, they careless in possession, they were all the things they shouldn't have been. I'm not going to dig a fantasy that we play a load of kids and it will all be alright but we've got some very talented players that are still developing and we need to harness their abilities and use it to push on, this is far from over.
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Post by morg on Nov 26, 2022 7:03:01 GMT
I was thinking back to those games month back Poland and Netherlands away and Cz friendly at home. Haven't looked up our teams but they were far from full strength but we were pretty competitive against good opposition. We have talent that hasn't been given a decent run yet e.g.Colwill and some very promising talent yet to be included.
There's a 'yeah but they might do something ' fear about dropping Bale and Ramsey and that has to finish now. The jury's out on Wilson.
The two of them deserved a chance at the world cup and I'm glad they can put that on their CVs. As much as any of our managers, they've been at the forefront of our improvement.I'd love em to stay involved but from now on purely on merit.
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Post by hooky on Nov 26, 2022 8:21:23 GMT
Such a shame what happened to Brooks
He was the creative guy we needed
I really hope, more so for him himself, that he can make a full recovery to be able to play top class football again
Now Ramsey has gone over the cliff - we badly need a creative player. Colwill just looks too inconsistent and not focused enough. Hope he improves but he does not look likely to be dependable, but Brooks was the real deal - we so it in his performances in the Premiership!
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Post by talyfan on Nov 26, 2022 9:01:32 GMT
I expect a few new faces to be on and amongst the squad. There's still some promising lads playing in Championship/L1
Aaron Collins, Jack Vale, Niall Huggins, Terry Taylor and Ollie Cooper. No silver bullets but promising lads playing in positions we lack depth in.
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Post by allezlesrouges on Nov 26, 2022 10:55:06 GMT
I expect a few new faces to be on and amongst the squad. There's still some promising lads playing in Championship/L1 Aaron Collins, Jack Vale, Niall Huggins, Terry Taylor and Ollie Cooper. No silver bullets but promising lads playing in positions we lack depth in. Feels like there needs to be a freshen up for sure. End of a cycle. Most importantly we need to find a playing style and stick with it, and find players that fit into it |
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Post by cadno on Nov 26, 2022 15:35:01 GMT
Give Hedges, Fox and Hughes some games - all left footed, not much depth in our squad atm left footed full backs/wingers.
Bring Tom Bradshaw into the fold, feel like he could be a great addition and do well on the intl stage.
Let’s give Colwill / Mark Harris a chance, Harris on either wing or up top his energy would be very welcome. Deffo give Cooper a chance now too. Try our best to keep Allen, Ramsey and Bale involved but don’t be afraid to take them off when they’re knackered or not performing.
He’s been superb in midfield but make Ampadu the heart of that defence, he has the ability and the mentality to play the role Ashley Williams did so well.
Ward
Rodon Ampadu Davies
Neco Allen Morrell RND
Wilson Cooper
Moore
This is a squad similar to Scotland atm I think, is there a manager out there that can bring in the Swansea City style of play for us, or is that going to be too difficult due to little amount of games?
Bellamy?
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Post by fiveattheback on Nov 26, 2022 16:03:47 GMT
Is it time to move away from the back 5? I think it's failed for us so far at the tournament and teams have been able to push us back quite easily. It feels like the system is set up to get the best out of two players who are far past their sell-by date That side you've posted cadno takes away two of our best threats in Johnson & James whilst our lack of left wing backs severely limits that system (RND plays lcb for Sheffield United, I believe?), whilst I think it's harsh to drop Mepham and takes out one of our few physical presences in midfield. I think a back 4 may suit us more Ward N.Williams Mepham Rodon Davies Ampadu Allen James Wilson Johnson Moore A 4-2-3-1 or 4-3-3 dependent on opposition. James' defensive work rate on the same side as Neco to cover his defensive deficiencies whilst the stability of Davies ought to help Johnson. The number 10 role I feel is really up for grabs if Ramsey does retire, I've never been overly impressed by Wilson. I think that is a very solid side for international football, all but one of those players plays in a top 5 European league and should be able to compete. It's also quite young. Wilson, Mepham, Rodon and James are all 25 while Williams, Johnson & Ampadu are even younger. I agree we should start looking at the likes of Hedges and Cooper now. I imagine we will post-WC. I'd add in someone like Jack Vale wo's been breaking into the Blackburn side |
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Post by cadno on Nov 26, 2022 16:13:09 GMT
Is it time to move away from the back 5? I think it's failed for us so far at the tournament and teams have been able to push us back quite easily. It feels like the system is set up to get the best out of two players who are far past their sell-by date That side you've posted cadno takes away two of our best threats in Johnson & James whilst our lack of left wing backs severely limits that system (RND plays lcb for Sheffield United, I believe?), whilst I think it's harsh to drop Mepham and takes out one of our few physical presences in midfield. I think a back 4 may suit us more Ward N.Williams Mepham Rodon Davies Ampadu Allen James Wilson Johnson Moore A 4-2-3-1 or 4-3-3 dependent on opposition. James' defensive work rate on the same side as Neco to cover his defensive deficiencies whilst the stability of Davies ought to help Johnson. The number 10 role I feel is really up for grabs if Ramsey does retire, I've never been overly impressed by Wilson. I think that is a very solid side for international football, all but one of those players plays in a top 5 European league and should be able to compete. It's also quite young. Wilson, Mepham, Rodon and James are all 25 while Williams, Johnson & Ampadu are even younger. I agree we should start looking at the likes of Hedges and Cooper now. I imagine we will post-WC. I'd add in someone like Jack Vale wo's been breaking into the Blackburn side Didn’t expect you to post that fiveattheback 😉 Joke, yes I think you make good points to be fair. I think we should go down 1 of 2 routes. 1) get a Nathan Jones type of manager in and make us play a possession based Swansea City style of play - takes time but this would be my preferred option. Or 2) fuck it make us a bastard of a team to play against, physical presence and get someone like Tony Pulis in - get into teams bully them, be solid at the back. We concede goals far too easily at the moment, players falling over each other and panicking last ditch tackles etc! |
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mrshed
steve evans
Is there an O'Neils in Qatar?
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Post by mrshed on Nov 26, 2022 16:24:23 GMT
I dont think Robert Page's time is up, I think he's got a lot still to offer. Yes, the squad needs a rebuild, and the Bale/Ramsay/Allen automatic starting days have come to an end, but how many were shouting for that before Friday?
Does Hennesey need to be dropped? before the red card, he's been fantastic between the sticks.
Our problem lies with our heroes of 2016, it's what cost us in the qualifiers for the 2018 WC, and it could be the reason we may be coming home wednesday morning.
I think (as some have said)
a back 4 (Neco/Mepham/Rodon/Davies or Neco/Rodon/Davies/Norrington-Davies)
Holding 2 Ampadu/Morrell (or even Allen if fit enough)
Attacking 3 Johnson/Colwill/James (although Cooper for colwill wouldve rocked)
Moore up front
Our wealth in depth is in our attacking mid, Sorba/Wilson/Bale/Ramsay
The question is, Is Robert Page brave enough to change it up for Tuesday?
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Post by cadno on Nov 26, 2022 16:34:51 GMT
Can we get Vincent Kompany and Bellamy in charge??
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Post by conwy10 on Nov 26, 2022 20:55:50 GMT
I don't get the hype for Colwill and Thomas. Colwill looks like he struggles to control the ball and Thomas I don't know what he brings to the group. He's got an amazing cross that smashes into the first defender. He can float a beautiful free kick that a keeper can judge coming a mile off. We need players who'll fight into the team, we give too many chances for little reason.
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Post by cymruchris on Nov 26, 2022 23:01:46 GMT
I expect a few new faces to be on and amongst the squad. There's still some promising lads playing in Championship/L1 Aaron Collins, Jack Vale, Niall Huggins, Terry Taylor and Ollie Cooper. No silver bullets but promising lads playing in positions we lack depth in. Surprised Andrew Hughes hasn't been called up at any point in last 18 months. Part of the backline at Preston that's kept double figures clean sheets already. Guess they're happy with Lockyer as the steady eddie championship CB. Hughes interestingly never been capped at any level since 2012 so perhaps something happened behind the scenes. 30 now so perhaps his time has passed. |
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Post by robin1864 on Nov 26, 2022 23:38:27 GMT
I dont think Robert Page's time is up, I think he's got a lot still to offer. Yes, the squad needs a rebuild, and the Bale/Ramsay/Allen automatic starting days have come to an end, but how many were shouting for that before Friday? Does Hennesey need to be dropped? before the red card, he's been fantastic between the sticks. Our problem lies with our heroes of 2016, it's what cost us in the qualifiers for the 2018 WC, and it could be the reason we may be coming home wednesday morning. I think (as some have said) a back 4 (Neco/Mepham/Rodon/Davies or Neco/Rodon/Davies/Norrington-Davies) Holding 2 Ampadu/Morrell (or even Allen if fit enough) Attacking 3 Johnson/Colwill/James (although Cooper for colwill wouldve rocked) Moore up front Our wealth in depth is in our attacking mid, Sorba/Wilson/Bale/Ramsay The question is, Is Robert Page brave enough to change it up for Tuesday? I don't get the hype for Colwill and Thomas. Colwill looks like he struggles to control the ball and Thomas I don't know what he brings to the group. He's got an amazing cross that smashes into the first defender. He can float a beautiful free kick that a keeper can judge coming a mile off. We need players who'll fight into the team, we give too many chances for little reason. Simply put, neither of them have been given a real chance to play because we don't really do experiments in friendlies and we're squeezing increasingly haggard senior players until the pips squeak. Colwill + Johnson's link up play vs Czech Republic at times was reminiscent of young Bale and Ramsey though, so I'm all for encouraging more of that. |
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Post by fiveattheback on Nov 27, 2022 12:38:15 GMT
I do wonder how wide we'll cast the net post-WC, I get the impression that the likes of Jordan James, Oli Cooper & Luke Harris will be involved, but I wonder if we'll look at some of those players that are maybe a little older to bulk out the squad, players whoa are around 24-28 who still have plenty to give in future
Someone like Lee Evans for instance who's playing in a good side, still has plenty to give at 27 and plays in a real problem position for us. Then there's someone like Tom Lowery at Portsmouth or the apparent glut of Welsh players at Bolton. We know we're not above picking players from League 1 (and below!).
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Post by jimexotic on Nov 27, 2022 13:52:15 GMT
I midfield of Lowery, Morrell and Smith. Just reading that and comparing it to what England and Scotland have makes me realise how much we have achieved really, nothing against those players but we have been competitive against sides like Poland, Holland Belgium with League One players on the pitch, it's a measure of how far we've come that we've been able to do that.
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Post by llan123 on Nov 27, 2022 14:49:10 GMT
If your not playing at Championship level or above or in a decent league overseas then I dont want to see you in the squad. There is a big gap in quality between league one and Chamopionship, if these players were any good they wouldn't be playing at that level.
Bale and Ramsey have to be apart of our rebuild, to drop them is silly BUT if they haven't played for their clubs for the preceding months before Wales games then I also dont think they should play. All the Welsh football banter twitter accounts love sharing stats of Bale and Ramsey never playing for their respective clubs but turning up for Wales but its holding us back now as they are just miles off it. Whoever the manager is going forwards also needs to have the bollocks to take them off as well, as again, keeping them on on name alone is holding us back also.
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Post by robin1864 on Nov 27, 2022 16:51:49 GMT
I do wonder how wide we'll cast the net post-WC, I get the impression that the likes of Jordan James, Oli Cooper & Luke Harris will be involved, but I wonder if we'll look at some of those players that are maybe a little older to bulk out the squad, players whoa are around 24-28 who still have plenty to give in future Someone like Lee Evans for instance who's playing in a good side, still has plenty to give at 27 and plays in a real problem position for us. Then there's someone like Tom Lowery at Portsmouth or the apparent glut of Welsh players at Bolton. We know we're not above picking players from League 1 (and below!). I'd like us to introduce some more experienced players, and once Bale/Rambo/Hennessey/Allen have gone, I could see openings for them to help balance out the team and bridge an experience gap. Chris Maxwell, Lee Evans, Andrew Hughes, Tom Bradshaw & Morgan Fox all play regular football at a decent level, which could help us avoid making naïve mistakes that come with having an overly-youthful team who spend most of their time coming on from the bench for a league cup appearance. |
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Post by jimexotic on Nov 27, 2022 16:53:20 GMT
I've wanted Hughes to get a look for a long time, I think a lot of us have, RND seems to have the left side of things nailed down though in the absence of Davies or Neco having to switch to the right.
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Post by allezlesrouges on Nov 27, 2022 17:42:26 GMT
The back 5 obviously worked for a time and on certain occasions. However, I do feel we've become predictable with it, and that's never a good thing. I'd prefer us to be a team that people aren't certain how we line up, and able to do back 5 or back 4 when tactics necessitate it
But yes, clear that in the here and now we need to move away from the back 5. As soon as you start conceding too many goals in a back 5 it's not worth using it. 4-2-3-1 or 4-4-2 for me, in some ways I think 4-4-2 is a lot more simple and therefore with the quick turnaround easier to implement. But moving forwards I'd like to see us able to use 4-4-2, 4-2-3-1 and 5-3-2
The big conundrum is the make-up of the midfield, as that will dictate what we can and can't do. I think in all of them we need 2 holders except against minnows
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Post by morg on Nov 27, 2022 19:39:07 GMT
Think we need 3 in central midfield so 442 would concern me. 451 becoming a 433 in attack would work I think with the 2 wide midfielders being wingers rather than wing backs. Depending on opposition, the 3 centrals could be 2 holdings and a 10 or 1 holding with an 8 and a 10.
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Post by talyfan on Nov 27, 2022 21:35:04 GMT
If your not playing at Championship level or above or in a decent league overseas then I dont want to see you in the squad. There is a big gap in quality between league one and Chamopionship, if these players were any good they wouldn't be playing at that level. Bale and Ramsey have to be apart of our rebuild, to drop them is silly BUT if they haven't played for their clubs for the preceding months before Wales games then I also dont think they should play. All the Welsh football banter twitter accounts love sharing stats of Bale and Ramsey never playing for their respective clubs but turning up for Wales but its holding us back now as they are just miles off it. Whoever the manager is going forwards also needs to have the bollocks to take them off as well, as again, keeping them on on name alone is holding us back also. An extreme example but just to consider. We invited Kieffer Moore to a training camp in 2019 after he finished the season playing League One football with Barnsley. Not to dissuade from your point I agree to an extent. But just because players are playing at a certain level now doesn't necessarily define their trajectory be it positively or negatively. There are loads of variables in play. |
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Post by bale-droed on Nov 27, 2022 22:35:02 GMT
Just throwing his name in as I haven’t seen it mentioned. I’d give Chris Popov a few caps in the campaign. Time to see if he’s going to be a big player. Looking at it now it’s even more mental oil cooper was taken to the World Cup. I’d rather see him play for us than Wilson
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Post by 60sred on Nov 28, 2022 11:45:41 GMT
Can we get Vincent Kompany and Bellamy in charge?? Sorry this is not not going to happen as both will have eyes on Man City job if all goes well at Burnley. One name i would like to see being involved in the future is Rob Earnshaw he has the required badges and has spent last few years coaching out in the US and Canada . He would be a fresh voice with no connection to the current squad so no favourites. |
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Post by bale-droed on Nov 28, 2022 13:34:09 GMT
Yep that’s a good point. I’d like to see him in there in some capacity.
Personally I think Page will get us to 2024. Ill support him but that doesn’t mean I wouldn’t like to see someone better come in. I agree with the fresh view and this is why I’d like a manager outside of Wales. Someone to come in and ask why the fuck is there a keeper who starts in the premier league on the bench etc
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Post by marsvolta on Nov 28, 2022 13:46:52 GMT
The last sentence will easily be explained to them by showing them a video of Hennessey’s performances in a welsh shirt lately.
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