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Post by morg on Oct 16, 2023 5:42:21 GMT
Unbelievable that qualification now back in our own hands. Still think that 6 points is a big ask from remaining fixtures but step at a time. Croatia kick off in Latvia after we've finished so if we win, huge pressure on them. Lose and they'd be out. Looking back at the team we put out against Armenia last time out, it does give you confidence for next match. Back 4. No Neco. Ampadu as effectively the sole holding midfielder. Win last night was huge. Best performance since Euro 16? Whatever the cause of that belief and 'dog' last night,should carry over to the next 2 matches and into the play offs if required. Admit to being surprised when Dan James was omitted last night, but I think we've now arrived at our best eleven with some great bench options.
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Post by quetzal on Oct 16, 2023 5:52:44 GMT
Unbelievable that qualification now back in our own hands. Still think that 6 points is a big ask from remaining fixtures but step at a time. Croatia kick off in Latvia after we've finished so if we win, huge pressure on them. Lose and they'd be out. Looking back at the team we put out against Armenia last time out, it does give you confidence for next match. Back 4. No Neco. Ampadu as effectively the sole holding midfielder. Win last night was huge. Best performance since Euro 16? Whatever the cause of that belief and 'dog' last night,should carry over to the next 2 matches and into the play offs if required. Admit to being surprised when Dan James was omitted last night, but I think we've now arrived at our best eleven with some great bench options. Good thing is it comes around fast. Not a 4 month gap or something like that. |
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Post by welshrover on Oct 16, 2023 6:49:49 GMT
I think about a week before the game we should get the press to leak a story about Neil Warnock replacing Rob Page.
The Roy Keane angst certainly appeared to fire them up last night!
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Post by allezlesrouges on Oct 16, 2023 8:37:44 GMT
I think we need to go for the same team and just say that's the standard now, either injuries or performance should be what dictates any changes
For what it's worth it sounds unlikely that Ramsey will be back in time anyway. Brennan may well be a starter for Spurs until then too, so will be a big call to keep him on the bench if Brooks still isn't playing. Good to have options tho and I feel confident about our forward line even if we have 2-3 injuries as we now have Moore, Wilson, Brooks, Ramsey, Brennan & DJ to choose from. It's almost too many if we have a full complement of players!
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Post by jimexotic on Oct 16, 2023 8:41:07 GMT
I think we need to press, battle and rattle Armenia. I maintain that for the first ten minutes against us they looked like one of the worst sides I'd ever seen us face, poor all over the pitch, shocking passing and a keeper that looks like an accident waiting to happen. We need to be aware of their niggly fouls and "gamesmanship" but if we take it to them they'll fold, we just have to keep our shape and keep it tight. A draw isn't the end of the World but I think this is a game we need to win to right the wrongs of June.
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Post by vvm on Oct 16, 2023 8:48:18 GMT
I think we need to go for the same team and just say that's the standard now, either injuries or performance should be what dictates any changes For what it's worth it sounds unlikely that Ramsey will be back in time anyway. Brennan may well be a starter for Spurs until then too, so will be a big call to keep him on the bench if Brooks still isn't playing. Good to have options tho and I feel confident about our forward line even if we have 2-3 injuries as we now have Moore, Wilson, Brooks, Ramsey, Brennan & DJ to choose from. It's almost too many if we have a full complement of players! Agreed, I'd be hesitant to change it but would be a tough call to leave Brennan out. On paper you could argue he's our best player but it's not really clicked for him for Wales yet. That Wilson, Moore, Brooks front 3 was special last night. |
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Post by morg on Oct 16, 2023 8:52:59 GMT
I don't think anyone could argue that anyone deserves to lose their shirt after last night. Balance of the team last night was best I've seen since Euro 16. No one was 'accommodated'. Brennan is an important player for us but I don't think he gets in for the next window as an automatic first choice.
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Post by melynwy on Oct 16, 2023 9:03:57 GMT
I agree it's hard to drop anyone from last night. Moore is a player that can be benched depending on the game plan, but having said that, his first touch last night was really very good, so he's not just a player to be used with a long ball.
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Post by allezlesrouges on Oct 16, 2023 9:12:28 GMT
I agree it's hard to drop anyone from last night. Moore is a player that can be benched depending on the game plan, but having said that, his first touch last night was really very good, so he's not just a player to be used with a long ball. He gives us variety in our play as we can play out from the back (with JJ & Ampadu we seem to be better at this than usual) or we can go long if under pressure and retain it some of the time. This hybrid approach works well for us and makes us awkward to play against, providing we're doing a good job of playing out too |
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Post by allezlesrouges on Oct 16, 2023 9:13:38 GMT
I don't think anyone could argue that anyone deserves to lose their shirt after last night. Balance of the team last night was best I've seen since Euro 16. No one was 'accommodated'. Brennan is an important player for us but I don't think he gets in for the next window as an automatic first choice. Good point re: accomodating. I think we've done too much of that since Bale's form was dropping off. Also a good point re: balance. It did look like we'd achieved that level of harmony |
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Post by morg on Oct 16, 2023 9:21:26 GMT
I think with wing backs, there's usually no need for out and out wingers. I think last night we had 2 attacking midfielders working from 'in to out' and it worked well. Think Dan James and Brennan both also have the tools to play similarly so 2 from those 4 are high quality options particularly as I thought a key feature of Dai and Harry was their pressing which will require substitutions for levels to be maintained.
Would still like to see Dan James tried at wing back mind!
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Post by allezlesrouges on Oct 16, 2023 10:15:56 GMT
I think with wing backs, there's usually no need for out and out wingers. I think last night we had 2 attacking midfielders working from 'in to out' and it worked well. Think Dan James and Brennan both also have the tools to play similarly so 2 from those 4 are high quality options particularly as I thought a key feature of Dai and Harry was their pressing which will require substitutions for levels to be maintained. Would still like to see Dan James tried at wing back mind! DJ at wing back against Armenia would be very interesting. For what it's worth I think Page just sticks with the same XI, but DJ showed against Gibraltar that he can be a very effective player at LWB in an attacking sense, so if Armenia are being stubborn I wouldn't be against DJ coming on there if we need a goal |
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Post by hal on Oct 16, 2023 10:37:53 GMT
I think one thing we learnt last night was that Page picks his X1 on international performances. Therefore I really can’t see him changing the team for Armenia if everyone is fit from last night. Will be a massive call but I guess that’s how he gets players playing for him.
Most would have picked James and Maybe Lockyer last night over Brooks and Meps, Page stuck with the team that won in Latvia.
Leaving Brennan out will be a massive call, but a great option to have off the bench should things not go our way in Armenia and unlike the last two camps, we have two competitive games upcoming.
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Post by allezlesrouges on Oct 16, 2023 10:43:31 GMT
Brennan is also probably our best deputy to Moore if he's ruled out, in fact Brennan can play any role across that front 3 so with our injury record you wouldn't be surprised to see Brennan coming in for one of them
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Post by fireboy0610 on Oct 16, 2023 12:52:39 GMT
Wondering how tickets are going for this one, i am in stage 3, touch wood there will be some left for me on Wednesday 🙏
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Post by eppingblue1 on Oct 16, 2023 13:10:14 GMT
Wondering how tickets are going for this one, i am in stage 3, touch wood there will be some left for me on Wednesday 🙏 Careful stage 3 starts 12.30 Tuesday afternoon and stage 4 later in the day. |
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Post by hooky on Oct 16, 2023 13:20:58 GMT
I hope that Page has learned not to focus on accommodating as many of his best players as possible in the team but rather gets the shape and set up of his team in place first and then picks the best players for a particular game.
Armenia need to beat is to have a chance of qualifying. Negatively that means they will be fired up but positively they will feel pressure for that game and they could play into our hands as they need to win so we can catch them on the break
What Page must not do is pick someone like Ramsey in place of say Jordan James. Ramsey may be the better player but he is nowhere near to being the better defensive player. As stated Ramsey will likely still be injured when the game comes around so that makes things simpler for Page
We are blessed with decent options in forward positions with Moore, Wilson, Brooks, Ramsey, Brennan & DJ - from which we should pick 3. I would start with the same 3 in Armenia, the only issue being that Dan James is the hardest working of the lot. Perhaps we rotate 1 or 2 of those players between Armenia and Turkey as it is a hell of a challenge to play 2 intense internationals in 3 days (why not 4 days) and Turkey will be well rested.
To think we have attacking players like Mantando, Lawrence, etc, who can't get a look in - shows we are strong attacking wise but now we have a solid defensive midfield to augment the potential up front. Armenia will not be able to just walk through the midfield like last time if Page picks those two
Why don't Leicester allow Ward to go on loan for goodness sake - he is not even in their squad. He ideally needs to be playing. Thanks goodness Rodon is playing and feels wanted again - has transformed the solidity of our back 5. Hopefully Mepham and Davies get some game time with their clubs.
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Post by fireboy0610 on Oct 16, 2023 13:31:33 GMT
Wondering how tickets are going for this one, i am in stage 3, touch wood there will be some left for me on Wednesday 🙏 Careful stage 3 starts 12.30 Tuesday afternoon and stage 4 later in the day. Cheers for that EB 👍 |
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Post by allezlesrouges on Oct 16, 2023 13:32:33 GMT
Hadn't considered that it would be two games in 3 days. In that case it most certainly could be a case of mix and match. Maybe we should start with DJ & Brennan behind Moore for Armenia in order to hold back Brooks/Wilson for Turkey. Or a mix and match approach
A tough one to manage for Page and it might not be as simple as going with the exact same XI
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Post by iot on Oct 16, 2023 15:43:51 GMT
Hadn't considered that it would be two games in 3 days. In that case it most certainly could be a case of mix and match. Maybe we should start with DJ & Brennan behind Moore for Armenia in order to hold back Brooks/Wilson for Turkey. Or a mix and match approach A tough one to manage for Page and it might not be as simple as going with the exact same XI Yeah, that's a really difficult one - I think we'll definitely need to rotate slightly between the two games. If we can get a couple of goals in by around the 60min mark, I'd look to bring Neco off, and one of the holding midfielders (with Morrell coming in). But I think it will be the same 1 to 8 (i.e. Ward, the back five, and the two in midfield) starting both games. Up front is where it gets interesting. I'm happy to rotate between Wilson, Brooks, DJ, and Brennan. Moore's the most irreplaceable imo because it just changes the whole way we play. Both Brennan and Wilson have shown we don't really have the option of playing it into them when they're up front, so we often struggle for an out ball. I think I'd feel nervous about taking Moore off even if we were up by two goals around the 60 min mark. |
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Post by morg on Oct 16, 2023 15:53:49 GMT
Hadn't considered that it would be two games in 3 days. In that case it most certainly could be a case of mix and match. Maybe we should start with DJ & Brennan behind Moore for Armenia in order to hold back Brooks/Wilson for Turkey. Or a mix and match approach A tough one to manage for Page and it might not be as simple as going with the exact same XI Turkey have 2 games in 3 days also. First one is a friendly but given that it's Germany away, they might not be treating it as a typical friendly especially as it's not going to be do or die for them against us. |
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Post by CrackityJones on Oct 16, 2023 16:16:54 GMT
Good point, the Germany game will be a qualification party for them where they can pit their wits against the tournament hosts.
Bit jealous actually
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Post by hooky on Oct 16, 2023 16:30:12 GMT
Hadn't considered that it would be two games in 3 days. In that case it most certainly could be a case of mix and match. Maybe we should start with DJ & Brennan behind Moore for Armenia in order to hold back Brooks/Wilson for Turkey. Or a mix and match approach A tough one to manage for Page and it might not be as simple as going with the exact same XI Turkey have 2 games in 3 days also. First one is a friendly but given that it's Germany away, they might not be treating it as a typical friendly especially as it's not going to be do or die for them against us. Germany away? Wow I did not know that. That is absolutely fantastic - they are qualified so they will surely prioritise that over us! |
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Post by eppingblue1 on Oct 16, 2023 17:21:06 GMT
Turkey have 2 games in 3 days also. First one is a friendly but given that it's Germany away, they might not be treating it as a typical friendly especially as it's not going to be do or die for them against us. Germany away? Wow I did not know that. That is absolutely fantastic - they are qualified so they will surely prioritise that over us! The game against us will still be important for them. They beat us and there's a fair chance they get seeded in pot 1. They draw against us and they'll be in pot 2. They lose to us and they'll be in pot 3. We win and top the group and we'll be in pot 2. |
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Post by iantov on Oct 16, 2023 17:31:48 GMT
Germany away? Wow I did not know that. That is absolutely fantastic - they are qualified so they will surely prioritise that over us! The game against us will still be important for them. They beat us and there's a fair chance they get seeded in pot 1. They draw against us and they'll be in pot 2. They lose to us and they'll be in pot 3. We win and top the group and we'll be in pot 2. Oof...I didn't realise this. Thanks for pointing it out but makes me a little more nervous about what I thought was a bit of a dead rubber for them. (assuming it goes according to plan for us against Armenia of course) |
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Post by winsumluzsum on Oct 16, 2023 17:54:25 GMT
Looking at the match highlights on uefa.com after scoring a superb opening goal Turkey were lucky not to pegged back. Latvia had 2 excellent chances, the second a free header from 6 yards out that hit the underside of the crossbar in the 77th minute. So, Turkey are a team to respect for sure, but not without vulnerabilities.
Let's deal with Armenia first, who can still qualify. The Turkey game will then take care of itself.
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Post by hooky on Oct 16, 2023 17:57:53 GMT
The game against us will still be important for them. They beat us and there's a fair chance they get seeded in pot 1. They draw against us and they'll be in pot 2. They lose to us and they'll be in pot 3. We win and top the group and we'll be in pot 2. Oof...I didn't realise this. Thanks for pointing it out but makes me a little more nervous about what I thought was a bit of a dead rubber for them. (assuming it goes according to plan for us against Armenia of course) Thanks for that. I still think desire wise its different for the players on the pitch when they are qualified. Also Turkey will not want to be thrashed by Germany and so I will be surprised if they play a shadow team against them |
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Post by winsumluzsum on Oct 16, 2023 18:09:15 GMT
Although Page got things wrong against Armenia at home, Osian Roberts had an interesting, sympathetic perspective talking on Feast of Football. His take was that there comes a time when you have to be bold and break the mould. Armenia, with their terrible record, and with us at hone, would have seemed like perfect opponents to try something new. And there were plenty on here and elsewhere, especially after the excessive criticism following the first Latvia game, that urged an approach and team selection such as the one adopted. Clearly, Armenia were underestimated by Page, and just about everybody. Also factor in the emergence of a complete unknown in Ranos, (no doubt Croatian fans will be wondering where the hell Jordan James came from), and uncharacteristically clinical finishing, and you end up with a freak result.
Next time we will have no illusions, and will definitely not underestimate Armenia.
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Post by iot on Oct 16, 2023 18:59:07 GMT
Although Page got things wrong against Armenia at home, Osian Roberts had an interesting, sympathetic perspective talking on Feast of Football. His take was that there comes a time when you have to be bold and break the mould. Armenia, with their terrible record, and with us at hone, would have seemed like perfect opponents to try something new. And there were plenty on here and elsewhere, especially after the excessive criticism following the first Latvia game, that urged an approach and team selection such as the one adopted. Clearly, Armenia were underestimated by Page, and just about everybody. Also factor in the emergence of a complete unknown in Ranos, (no doubt Croatian fans will be wondering where the hell Jordan James came from), and uncharacteristically clinical finishing, and you end up with a freak result. Next time we will have no illusions, and will definitely not underestimate Armenia. Absolutely this. For the crap Page took for that game, I distinctly remember several people on here advocating for a similarly open / attacking approach and even the exact same lineup that he went for. |
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Post by iot on Oct 20, 2023 11:14:14 GMT
We'd be screwed if I were in Page's shoes right now, because I'd have no idea how to approach these last two games. We have to manage 2 games in 3 days against difficult opponents and with all the travelling involved. We sort of found a system against Croatia that worked brilliantly and had a great balance, but a couple of our best players don't really fit into that system. We could all name the 8 players that will start in goal, defence, and midfield for the two games. One of the key tweaks against Croatia was to go back to a double-10 formation, but only Brooks, Wilson, and Ramsey can play those roles - Brennan and DJ like to operate out wide. Brooks was absolutely knackered after about 55mins on Sunday, and Wilson the same 10-15 minutes later. I really don't think they can put in a shift like that and play to the same standard three days later. Ramsey's likely to be out and Moore's irreplaceable in this system, I'd have no idea what to do if he becomes unavailable. I think we probably will have to rotate the front three over these couple of games, but there's so many difficult decisions to make around that. I think Brennan had a big part to play in our defensive vulnerabilities in that 4-2 defeat (simply by not tracking back at all) and we had such a good defensive shape against Croatia that I'd hate to spoil it by bringing someone in who isn't on the same wavelength. For those reasons, I'd be hesitant to start Brennan against Armenia (or Turkey for that matter) - maybe he should have an impact sub role for the immediate future. We could start DJ, but then we'd have to shift from the really effective system that worked so well against Armenia.
On balance, I think I'd start with the same starting xi, see how the first half goes, and then just bring Dan and Brennan on as quickly as we can in the second half.
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