|
|
Post by allezlesrouges on Oct 20, 2023 11:49:52 GMT
I think we should be starting DJ & Brennan away to Armenia. Our formation was completely different against Armenia last time, so I'm not concerned about us defensively. We won't be opened up in the same way with Ampadu-James in there and a back 5
For that reason I'd rest Brooks & Wilson for the Turkey game & I think a Brennan who is regular at Spurs is plenty good enough to start out in Armenia. DJ was great when he came on for Brooks against Croatia and Armenia will leave space in behind tok because they like to play more than Latvia. So both of them playing behind Moore would be how I do it. With the view of calling on Wilson if it doesn't go to plan
|
|
|
|
Post by allezlesrouges on Oct 20, 2023 11:53:28 GMT
Also, big if, but if we went a few goals ahead we might have the option of bringing on Morrell, Broadhead, Lockyer etc... to really rest up. Big if, but that would be the ideal scenario
|
|
|
|
Post by iot on Oct 20, 2023 12:25:33 GMT
I think we should be starting DJ & Brennan away to Armenia. Our formation was completely different against Armenia last time, so I'm not concerned about us defensively. We won't be opened up in the same way with Ampadu-James in there and a back 5 For that reason I'd rest Brooks & Wilson for the Turkey game & I think a Brennan who is regular at Spurs is plenty good enough to start out in Armenia. DJ was great when he came on for Brooks against Croatia and Armenia will leave space in behind tok because they like to play more than Latvia. So both of them playing behind Moore would be how I do it. With the view of calling on Wilson if it doesn't go to plan One of the points that Gabbidon made on EJFOF was that the double-10 formation worked brilliantly against Croatia because it prevented them from having those overloads in midfield (i.e. from us being outnumbered 3-2 to them being outnumber 4-3) and they couldn't play through us. It makes up for our deficiencies in midfield. I felt that we lost that battle in midfield in the home game against Armenia which is why I'd be tempted to stick with the two 10s. Obviously we had Ramsey starting as one of two deep midfielders back then, but continued to struggle after Morrell came on. That, couple with Brennan's very poor defensive workrate, would be my main concerns if we lined up with two wide attackers in Armenia. |
|
|
|
Post by oldman on Oct 20, 2023 13:26:36 GMT
I think we should be starting DJ & Brennan away to Armenia. Our formation was completely different against Armenia last time, so I'm not concerned about us defensively. We won't be opened up in the same way with Ampadu-James in there and a back 5 For that reason I'd rest Brooks & Wilson for the Turkey game & I think a Brennan who is regular at Spurs is plenty good enough to start out in Armenia. DJ was great when he came on for Brooks against Croatia and Armenia will leave space in behind tok because they like to play more than Latvia. So both of them playing behind Moore would be how I do it. With the view of calling on Wilson if it doesn't go to plan One of the points that Gabbidon made on EJFOF was that the double-10 formation worked brilliantly against Croatia because it prevented them from having those overloads in midfield (i.e. from us being outnumbered 3-2 to them being outnumber 4-3) and they couldn't play through us. It makes up for our deficiencies in midfield. I felt that we lost that battle in midfield in the home game against Armenia which is why I'd be tempted to stick with the two 10s. Obviously we had Ramsey starting as one of two deep midfielders back then, but continued to struggle after Morrell came on. That, couple with Brennan's very poor defensive workrate, would be my main concerns if we lined up with two wide attackers in Armenia. THIS - Wilson and Brooks to start all day long. Hopefully Brooks will get some first team football after his performance against Croatia and build up his fitness levels even more. |
|
|
|
Post by allezlesrouges on Oct 25, 2023 15:32:07 GMT
One of the points that Gabbidon made on EJFOF was that the double-10 formation worked brilliantly against Croatia because it prevented them from having those overloads in midfield (i.e. from us being outnumbered 3-2 to them being outnumber 4-3) and they couldn't play through us. It makes up for our deficiencies in midfield. I felt that we lost that battle in midfield in the home game against Armenia which is why I'd be tempted to stick with the two 10s. Obviously we had Ramsey starting as one of two deep midfielders back then, but continued to struggle after Morrell came on. That, couple with Brennan's very poor defensive workrate, would be my main concerns if we lined up with two wide attackers in Armenia. THIS - Wilson and Brooks to start all day long. Hopefully Brooks will get some first team football after his performance against Croatia and build up his fitness levels even more. So you'd start them, and then potentially rotate for the Turkey game? Might be a better way of doing it, but I also feel that DJ & Brennan would be enough to beat Armenia (especially now we have JJ), and perhaps holding back Wilson and Brooks will be better for us for that final game |
|
|
|
Post by winsumluzsum on Oct 25, 2023 17:03:27 GMT
We have to win in Armenia, which is by no means a given. So we have to start with our strongest lineup, which very probably means Wilson and Brooks. Hopefully we can build a 2 goal lead, which would allow us to bring on James and Johnson sooner rather than later. Chances are it will be tighter than that, so we will probably need Wilson and Brooks to play for an hour, and Moore for longer. After last time we can't take anything for granted.
|
|
|
|
Post by iot on Oct 25, 2023 18:54:39 GMT
THIS - Wilson and Brooks to start all day long. Hopefully Brooks will get some first team football after his performance against Croatia and build up his fitness levels even more. So you'd start them, and then potentially rotate for the Turkey game? Might be a better way of doing it, but I also feel that DJ & Brennan would be enough to beat Armenia (especially now we have JJ), and perhaps holding back Wilson and Brooks will be better for us for that final game I'm amazed that you're striking the exact same tone that you did in the lead-up to the Armenia home game, where you mentioned that you think Ramsey in a deep midfield two would be enough to deal with Armenia, thereby allowing us to play all the front-4 of Brennan/Wilson/James/Moore. We were then humbled by the Armenians. Let's not make the same mistake twice, and pay them the respect that they deserve this time. |
|
|
|
Post by allezlesrouges on Oct 26, 2023 13:02:58 GMT
So you'd start them, and then potentially rotate for the Turkey game? Might be a better way of doing it, but I also feel that DJ & Brennan would be enough to beat Armenia (especially now we have JJ), and perhaps holding back Wilson and Brooks will be better for us for that final game I'm amazed that you're striking the exact same tone that you did in the lead-up to the Armenia home game, where you mentioned that you think Ramsey in a deep midfield two would be enough to deal with Armenia, thereby allowing us to play all the front-4 of Brennan/Wilson/James/Moore. We were then humbled by the Armenians. Let's not make the same mistake twice, and pay them the respect that they deserve this time. You're comparing apples and oranges Firstly, when I mentioned Ramsey in a deep two I meant in a strict 4-2-3-1 where he didn't move forwards and just sat back and acted as a playmaker with really restricted his positioning. That's not what we got. We got a 4-3-3 with Ampadu holding and Wilson & Ramsey wandering in front leaving us exposed. I would never advocate for that. I was actually shocked that Ramsey was so positionally lackadaisical in that as well which made me realise he can't be trusted (which is very poor considering he's our captain and most senior player) Now, not only have we changed the makeup of our midfield from a midfield 3 to a midfield 4, we've added a solid CDM into the mix to play in that problem position. So it's a very different picture now. We have Ampadu & JJ with 3 CBs behind, that's a lot more solid than playing Ampadu on his own with wandering full-backs and 2 CBs behind So in my opinion the two 10s in front can be changed to suit the demands of playing two games in 3 days without it making us less solid, and this will enable us to play our best team in the harder of the two games If we start Wilson & Brooks against Armenia and one of them gets injured, or can then not turnaround to play Turkey, then we're going into the harder game with a less ideal set up. So I think trusting DJ to do the job he did when he came on against Croatia for Brooks is a good move, and he's shown he can do it. So the real debate is do we do the same with Brennan? Maybe not, but then we could start Wilson and bring Brennan on for him too I think this is a balanced way of looking at it, and I don't think it's sensible to expect Wilson & Brooks play back to back 90 mins 3 days apart |
|
|
|
Post by winsumluzsum on Oct 26, 2023 14:00:14 GMT
That's a perfectly reasonable point of view and I don't think there's a huge difference between going with James and Johnson instead of Wilson and Brooks. However, I still don't think we can take victory over Armenia for granted. With that in mind we should start with our strongest lineup, which right now means Wilson and Brooks. If we're ahead at halftime we could bring James on for Brooks at that point, with Johnson coming on after a quarter of an hour. If we're not ahead, then we bring on James and Johnson on the hour mark regardless. Moore should stay on until we're two goals to the good, or for an hour and a quarter if we're one goal ahead.
Something like this strikes the right balance between ensuring a victory over Armenia and keeping the players as fresh as possible for the Turkey game.
|
|
|
|
Post by allezlesrouges on Oct 26, 2023 14:59:41 GMT
That's a perfectly reasonable point of view and I don't think there's a huge difference between going with James and Johnson instead of Wilson and Brooks. However, I still don't think we can take victory over Armenia for granted. With that in mind we should start with our strongest lineup, which right now means Wilson and Brooks. If we're ahead at halftime we could bring James on for Brooks at that point, with Johnson coming on after a quarter of an hour. If we're not ahead, then we bring on James and Johnson on the hour mark regardless. Moore should stay on until we're two goals to the good, or for an hour and a quarter if we're one goal ahead. Something like this strikes the right balance between ensuring a victory over Armenia and keeping the players as fresh as possible for the Turkey game. I get how what I'm saying might come across as I'm taking it for granted, but I'm really not. That's because I think having DJ & Brennan is such a fantastic strength in depth to have. Using a player (who I think will be a regular starter when fully fit), who is playing for a Spurs team who are top of the Premier League, isn't us taking Armenia for granted in my opinion. I agree he possibly isn't in our best XI at the moment, but he's a top player, far more talented than anything Armenia have got. So in my opinion starting him isn't saying "we can start anyone against Armenia and win", it's me saying let's utilise our strength position to give us the best possible chance of 6 points I'm not saying I'm completely against your approach, and I think that's likely what Page will do. But would I rather Brennan against Armenia or Turkey at this moment? I'd probably rather him against Armenia, and then as an impact sub against Turkey, rather than the other way around |
|
|
|
Post by winsumluzsum on Oct 26, 2023 15:36:06 GMT
If we start with James instead of Brooks I would be OK with that, but starting with Johnson seems a bit risky for my liking. He's obviously talented, but right now he's a bit of an enigma. What's his best position? Is it as a ten? I don't think so. There's also the question marks about his workrate out of possession.
It's a shame because once we've figured out how to the best out of him he'll be one of the first names on the teamsheet. Right now, there are just too many question marks for him to start in a must win game.
|
|
|
|
Post by morg on Oct 26, 2023 15:58:36 GMT
If we start with James instead of Brooks I would be OK with that, but starting with Johnson seems a bit risky for my liking. He's obviously talented, but right now he's a bit of an enigma. What's his best position? Is it as a ten? I don't think so. There's also the question marks about his workrate out of possession. It's a shame because once we've figured out how to the best out of him he'll be one of the first names on the teamsheet. Right now, there are just too many question marks for him to start in a must win game. Agreed. Those 2 10s need to graft in midfield also and up to now that's not Brennan's game. If anything, he'd come on for Kieffer. |
|
|
|
Post by winsumluzsum on Oct 26, 2023 16:04:54 GMT
Agreed, although Johnson would be a false 9, perhaps in a 3-4-3, with James and Ramsey left and right. All 3 potentially coming on after an hour, especially if we're ahead. That would be potentially potent counter-attacking lineup with Armenia chasing the game.
|
|
|
|
Post by iot on Oct 26, 2023 19:29:13 GMT
I'm amazed that you're striking the exact same tone that you did in the lead-up to the Armenia home game, where you mentioned that you think Ramsey in a deep midfield two would be enough to deal with Armenia, thereby allowing us to play all the front-4 of Brennan/Wilson/James/Moore. We were then humbled by the Armenians. Let's not make the same mistake twice, and pay them the respect that they deserve this time. You're comparing apples and oranges Firstly, when I mentioned Ramsey in a deep two I meant in a strict 4-2-3-1 where he didn't move forwards and just sat back and acted as a playmaker with really restricted his positioning. That's not what we got. We got a 4-3-3 with Ampadu holding and Wilson & Ramsey wandering in front leaving us exposed. I would never advocate for that. I was actually shocked that Ramsey was so positionally lackadaisical in that as well which made me realise he can't be trusted (which is very poor considering he's our captain and most senior player) Now, not only have we changed the makeup of our midfield from a midfield 3 to a midfield 4, we've added a solid CDM into the mix to play in that problem position. So it's a very different picture now. We have Ampadu & JJ with 3 CBs behind, that's a lot more solid than playing Ampadu on his own with wandering full-backs and 2 CBs behind So in my opinion the two 10s in front can be changed to suit the demands of playing two games in 3 days without it making us less solid, and this will enable us to play our best team in the harder of the two games If we start Wilson & Brooks against Armenia and one of them gets injured, or can then not turnaround to play Turkey, then we're going into the harder game with a less ideal set up. So I think trusting DJ to do the job he did when he came on against Croatia for Brooks is a good move, and he's shown he can do it. So the real debate is do we do the same with Brennan? Maybe not, but then we could start Wilson and bring Brennan on for him too I think this is a balanced way of looking at it, and I don't think it's sensible to expect Wilson & Brooks play back to back 90 mins 3 days apart I don't think I am. There have been two notable changes since the Armenia home game. The first has been to add a more disciplined, ball-winning midfielder to play alongside Ampadu, which I accept we'll continue to do with your suggested line-up. The second has been to outnumber the opposition in midfield by playing two 10s, which wouldn't be the case in your suggested lineup. You say "not only have we changed the makeup of our midfield from a midfield 3 to a midfield 4", but you're advocating against that in the Armenia away game. I accept the point that the need for rotation means we may not have the personnel to play that double-10 system from the off in the two games, but we shouldn't be dismissive of the risk in taking away that tactic which seems to have been important in recent performances. My main point though was to pick you up on the slightly dismissive tone with regards to Armenia, when you were talking about the compromises we can make (to manage the double-header) and how those changes would be "plenty good enough to start out in Armenia". It just reminded me of the comments made in the build-up to the home game. Having just gone back to look at that thread, it makes for very interesting reading. When I questioned you on the lineup and specifically the Ampadu-Ramsey combo (which Page eventually went for), you said "If we were playing against Turkey I'd agree, but this is Armenia". I think we were far too complacent and disrespectful going into that game, and fear we're at risk of repeating the same mistake. |
|
|
|
Post by allezlesrouges on Oct 29, 2023 9:49:33 GMT
You're comparing apples and oranges Firstly, when I mentioned Ramsey in a deep two I meant in a strict 4-2-3-1 where he didn't move forwards and just sat back and acted as a playmaker with really restricted his positioning. That's not what we got. We got a 4-3-3 with Ampadu holding and Wilson & Ramsey wandering in front leaving us exposed. I would never advocate for that. I was actually shocked that Ramsey was so positionally lackadaisical in that as well which made me realise he can't be trusted (which is very poor considering he's our captain and most senior player) Now, not only have we changed the makeup of our midfield from a midfield 3 to a midfield 4, we've added a solid CDM into the mix to play in that problem position. So it's a very different picture now. We have Ampadu & JJ with 3 CBs behind, that's a lot more solid than playing Ampadu on his own with wandering full-backs and 2 CBs behind So in my opinion the two 10s in front can be changed to suit the demands of playing two games in 3 days without it making us less solid, and this will enable us to play our best team in the harder of the two games If we start Wilson & Brooks against Armenia and one of them gets injured, or can then not turnaround to play Turkey, then we're going into the harder game with a less ideal set up. So I think trusting DJ to do the job he did when he came on against Croatia for Brooks is a good move, and he's shown he can do it. So the real debate is do we do the same with Brennan? Maybe not, but then we could start Wilson and bring Brennan on for him too I think this is a balanced way of looking at it, and I don't think it's sensible to expect Wilson & Brooks play back to back 90 mins 3 days apart I don't think I am. There have been two notable changes since the Armenia home game. The first has been to add a more disciplined, ball-winning midfielder to play alongside Ampadu, which I accept we'll continue to do with your suggested line-up. The second has been to outnumber the opposition in midfield by playing two 10s, which wouldn't be the case in your suggested lineup. You say "not only have we changed the makeup of our midfield from a midfield 3 to a midfield 4", but you're advocating against that in the Armenia away game. I accept the point that the need for rotation means we may not have the personnel to play that double-10 system from the off in the two games, but we shouldn't be dismissive of the risk in taking away that tactic which seems to have been important in recent performances. My main point though was to pick you up on the slightly dismissive tone with regards to Armenia, when you were talking about the compromises we can make (to manage the double-header) and how those changes would be "plenty good enough to start out in Armenia". It just reminded me of the comments made in the build-up to the home game. Having just gone back to look at that thread, it makes for very interesting reading. When I questioned you on the lineup and specifically the Ampadu-Ramsey combo (which Page eventually went for), you said "If we were playing against Turkey I'd agree, but this is Armenia". I think we were far too complacent and disrespectful going into that game, and fear we're at risk of repeating the same mistake. No I'm advocating for the same set up just with different personnel, asking whoever comes in to perform the same defensive duties. I know Brennan isn't known for his work rate, but I do think his "lack of work rate" is over played. Postecoglu asks a lot of his wingers out of the ball and it looks like Brennan is about to become first choice there. In our system it's just a question of dropping more centrally at times, which he did at Forest too I don't dismiss any national team, in fact if you look at all of my posts about other teams you'll see that I regularly say there are no easy games any more, and especially since the advent of the Nations League a lot of the lesser nations have markedly improved. I have particular respect for the caucasus countries like Georgia, Azerbajian & Armenia who have always had a good technical level. I also warned about that Ranos striker in the build up and how quickly he'd taken to international football. So I promise you I wasn't dismissing them when I made those comments. I was simply stating there is a difference in level between Armenia and Turkey, that's a fact! Against Turkey I'd always go more conservative, but against an Armenia, Azerbaijan, Latvia, Estonia etc.. whilst I know they're not minnows and can cause problems there is opportunity to go more attacking in these games if the tactic works (which Page's admittedly didn't). I think this was confirmed in the xG stats for both games. The data suggested we should have beaten Armenia 2-1 despite our poor display, Armenia were anomalously clinical on that day |
|
|
|
Post by winsumluzsum on Oct 29, 2023 15:52:36 GMT
With Johnson learning to press high up the pitch with Spurs, and Dan James on fire, there is very little to choose between a Wilson-Brooks pairing as opposed to a James-Johnson one. However, it makes sense to have the pace of the latter pairing up against a tiring Armenia defense. I'd give both pairings a half each to maximise recovery all round for the Turkey game.
|
|
|
|
Post by manulike on Nov 4, 2023 9:52:30 GMT
Am I reading this correctly? Looks like @footballrankings has us still at 61% to finish 3rd in the group? Or was this page not updated since the Croatia win?
And they don't even project us qualifying via the play-offs ...
|
|
|
|
Post by hooky on Nov 4, 2023 10:51:27 GMT
Any news on Armenia players? We seem to lose a star player or two for every round of matches. They have 2 significant talents in particular I guess? Are they on track to face us?
|
|
|
|
Post by welshrover on Nov 4, 2023 11:13:38 GMT
Am I reading this correctly? Looks like @footballrankings has us still at 61% to finish 3rd in the group? Or was this page not updated since the Croatia win?
And they don't even project us qualifying via the play-offs ...
Italy in Pot 4 could be a spanner in the works, but as we know a lot can change. I read it the same as you, they don't expect us to qualify. |
|
|
|
Post by fiveattheback on Nov 4, 2023 12:37:16 GMT
Am I reading this correctly? Looks like @footballrankings has us still at 61% to finish 3rd in the group? Or was this page not updated since the Croatia win?
And they don't even project us qualifying via the play-offs ...
Our friends at We Global football have us at similar - 59% chance of third /photo/3 As much as some may pretend we made up for it by beating Croatia, the home loss to Armenia has put us in a difficult position |
|
|
|
Post by welshrover on Nov 4, 2023 13:19:29 GMT
Am I reading this correctly? Looks like @footballrankings has us still at 61% to finish 3rd in the group? Or was this page not updated since the Croatia win?
And they don't even project us qualifying via the play-offs ...
Our friends at We Global football have us at similar - 59% chance of third /photo/3 As much as some may pretend we made up for it by beating Croatia, the home loss to Armenia has put us in a difficult position Thankfully "experts" have a habit of getting things wrong. Let's face it Tony Blair listened to an "expert" about WMD in Iraq and look where that got us! |
|
|
|
Post by superunknown on Nov 4, 2023 13:50:43 GMT
We have the hardest set of games left realistically. Obviously winnable on our day but you’d imagine in the 1000 or however many projections they run we’re dropping points more than Croatia will so less of a chance.
Playoffs would be much more difficult than these final two games so can see why they’d have us not qualifying from there too.
Anyway none of it really matters, just gotta do the job this month. Hopefully little old Wales will be taking the piss again.
|
|
|
|
Post by CrackityJones on Nov 8, 2023 10:44:58 GMT
No surprises in the squad, thankfully captain Davies us in there. Hopefully he’s in good shape next week
|
|
|
|
Post by fiveattheback on Nov 8, 2023 11:23:31 GMT
No surprises in the squad, thankfully captain Davies us in there. Hopefully he’s in good shape next week Huggins a surprise perhaps? Looks like Savage, Low, Harris and Beck back into the u21s for 2 big games. Be huge if they can pick up some wins |
|
|
|
Post by bringbackelmo on Nov 8, 2023 14:58:43 GMT
Before the Croatia game plenty were calling for Page's head after a dismal run. Obviously the Croatia game was great but we need to be realistic about where we are with two tough games to play.
I wouldn't expect us to qualify through the playoffs on current form either.
|
|
|
|
Post by jbt95 on Nov 8, 2023 15:19:36 GMT
Before the Croatia game plenty were calling for Page's head after a dismal run. Obviously the Croatia game was great but we need to be realistic about where we are with two tough games to play. I wouldn't expect us to qualify through the playoffs on current form either. There’s been a much better standard since the Korea game. |
|
|
|
Post by quetzal on Nov 8, 2023 16:05:48 GMT
Armenia 3 Wales 5 Crazy game and a couple of soft goals let in by Danny Ward. Dan James the star for us off bench
|
|
|
|
Post by allezlesrouges on Nov 8, 2023 17:02:50 GMT
Really tough call with the selection given we need to win both games, and will be playing Turkey 3 days later. At present I'd go for...
Ward
Mepham-Rodon-Davies
Connor-JJ-Ampadu-Neco
Brennan-DJ
Moore
With Brooks & Wilson ready to come on at HT if we're not playing well. As it is, I'm feeling quite optimistic for this game, as I believe JJ will make all the difference and prevent Armenia playing through us like the home game. They also really over-performed their xG in the home game & don't think they will get that lucky again
I think this game will be somewhat reminiscent of the Azerbaijan game before we beat Hungary in 2019. A 2-0 win with Kieffer & Brennan getting the goals
|
|
|
|
Post by welshowl on Nov 8, 2023 20:42:05 GMT
Any news on Armenia players? We seem to lose a star player or two for every round of matches. They have 2 significant talents in particular I guess? Are they on track to face us?
In case anyone hadn't spotted it, kick off is at 2pm.
|
|
|
|
Post by winsumluzsum on Nov 8, 2023 21:26:29 GMT
Ranos has only played 17 minutes for Borussia, and that was back in August. So, at least that's in our favour.
|
|
