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Post by hooky on Apr 6, 2024 10:39:23 GMT
Have posted on the other thread.
Unfortunately we have to count down the two and a half years until he leaves his post. Unfortunately our players will be two and a half years older and we will have missed an opportunity to improve.
I like Page but as I stated elsewhere he is making very basic errors at times, is never going to improve and is a hinderance. Who is a worse international manager than him in Europe in terms of the decisions they make and their impact on the team. Its sad that we have to accept this mediocrity for another 30 months!
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Post by hooky on Apr 6, 2024 10:41:57 GMT
The people who back Page then answer this:
Do you seriously see us at any risk of losing Page to an offer from a Championship club?
You know the answer and you know he will at best end up in the first or second decision. He has talented players - not world beaters but they are pretty decent - and he detracts from what they are capable of, especially in key games.
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Post by winsumluzsum on Apr 6, 2024 11:42:33 GMT
You're wasting energy on this. Rightly or wrongly the FAW have made their decision.
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Post by iot on Apr 6, 2024 12:50:08 GMT
Have posted on the other thread. Unfortunately we have to count down the two and a half years until he leaves his post. Unfortunately our players will be two and a half years older and we will have missed an opportunity to improve. I like Page but as I stated elsewhere he is making very basic errors at times, is never going to improve and is a hinderance. Who is a worse international manager than him in Europe in terms of the decisions they make and their impact on the team. Its sad that we have to accept this mediocrity for another 30 months! What a silly statement to make / question to ask. Name me 5 managers across Europe where you have a detailed understanding of how they operate, how their games have gone and tactical decisions made? Page certainly out-thought the Croatian Manager very recently for one example - a manager who's been there for years and taken his small country to back-to-back World Cup semi finals. He's also won the tactical battle against several other managers in his time in charge. |
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Post by iot on Apr 6, 2024 12:56:11 GMT
The people who back Page then answer this: Do you seriously see us at any risk of losing Page to an offer from a Championship club? You know the answer and you know he will at best end up in the first or second decision. He has talented players - not world beaters but they are pretty decent - and he detracts from what they are capable of, especially in key games. No certainly not. In my view Coleman was a great manager of Wales, but has been very poor at club level and I can't see any Championship team taking him on again. That doesn't negate how good he was for us, likewise with Page. There's also the issue (that I know some people can't accept) of finances - we have a below Championship budget, so we can't necessarily attract championship level managers. The only thing that needs to be considered is whether we can get someone better in. Page has his failings, but he also has his strengths - the respect of the players, good form over the last 10 games, and some tactically very adept performances - if you can't accept that, you're not being honest - the proof is there in the performances. So it's a question of whether we can get someone better than that within our budget. I can't answer that question, but it seems the powers that be believe we can't. |
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Post by hooky on Apr 6, 2024 14:12:03 GMT
The people who back Page then answer this: Do you seriously see us at any risk of losing Page to an offer from a Championship club? You know the answer and you know he will at best end up in the first or second decision. He has talented players - not world beaters but they are pretty decent - and he detracts from what they are capable of, especially in key games. No certainly not. In my view Coleman was a great manager of Wales, but has been very poor at club level and I can't see any Championship team taking him on again. That doesn't negate how good he was for us, likewise with Page. There's also the issue (that I know some people can't accept) of finances - we have a below Championship budget, so we can't necessarily attract championship level managers. The only thing that needs to be considered is whether we can get someone better in. Page has his failings, but he also has his strengths - the respect of the players, good form over the last 10 games, and some tactically very adept performances - if you can't accept that, you're not being honest - the proof is there in the performances. So it's a question of whether we can get someone better than that within our budget. I can't answer that question, but it seems the powers that be believe we can't. Lets compare notes after he fails us again Belarus away Estonia at home Armenia at home Armenia away and that is just a coaching masterclass against lower tier teams Seriously he should be gone Bale got us qualified for the WC and not Page and don't make me laugh saying he outcoached the Croatian manager. No - the players showed their quality and played their hearts out for the manager. They love him and we like him but such love and respect gets you only so far. Nice guys don't always win unless they have talent! |
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Post by winsumluzsum on Apr 6, 2024 16:21:27 GMT
Not to give Page any credit for the Croatia victory shows a complete lack of objectivity. The mid press in that game, compressing play, worked a treat. That was one of our best ever results and performances in a qualifying match. Up there with beating Italy.
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Post by hooky on Apr 6, 2024 16:28:37 GMT
Not to give Page any credit for the Croatia victory shows a complete lack of objectivity. The mid press in that game, compressing play, worked a treat. That was one of our best ever results and performances in a qualifying match. Up there with beating Italy. but the attitude of the players was key. You are right - one of our best performances but he did not have to change things did he? I can't argue he did not set us up well for that match, but the key problem is his ability to see things developing in matches and making the correct calls at the right times. A big issue also has been the lack of consistency. We go from that great results versus Croatia to falling behind early against Armenia and drawing to blow another chance. It is just frustrating watching the inconsistency and/or in my view very poor decisions. Its all about opinions but I go into matches worried about him having to make calls within a match. I thought we would beat Poland with our pace up front but was genuinely fearful Page would make mistakes and nothing in that game changed my mind |
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Post by CymruFach on Apr 6, 2024 18:10:13 GMT
We should have qualified out of the group.
We should have beaten Poland.
Page's tactics are abysmal.
Putting Dan James at full back was unbelievable.
With him in charge I will not be renewing my long standing Tournament ticket.
The men in grey suits have no idea.
PS the last World Cup was dreadful, or has everyone forgotten?
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Post by foxmulder on Apr 6, 2024 20:03:15 GMT
We should have qualified out of the group. We should have beaten Poland. Page's tactics are abysmal. Putting Dan James at full back was unbelievable. With him in charge I will not be renewing my long standing Tournament ticket. The men in grey suits have no idea. PS the last World Cup was dreadful, or has everyone forgotten? PLASTEEEEEEEEK!! |
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Post by winsumluzsum on Apr 6, 2024 20:45:41 GMT
I would have preferred a 4-2-3-1, but Dan James made several runs into the middle, as he was given an attacking license. With one he was inches away from a tap in 8 yards out when Szczęsny parried Davies' low cross.
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Post by allezlesrouges on Apr 6, 2024 22:29:53 GMT
A lot of that has been against top opposition though. England, Poland, Belgium, Netherlands, Turkey, Croatia, South Korea account for 12 of those games So still 5 wins in the last 20 yea? What's so special about the last 20 in particular? Is it because if you make it the last 10 or the last 30 it doesn't look like such a bad record? Achievements are contextual, but you're trying to remove key context to prove a point that coincides with your biases |
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Post by allezlesrouges on Apr 6, 2024 22:34:10 GMT
We should have qualified out of the group. We should have beaten Poland. Page's tactics are abysmal. Putting Dan James at full back was unbelievable. With him in charge I will not be renewing my long standing Tournament ticket. The men in grey suits have no idea. PS the last World Cup was dreadful, or has everyone forgotten? Have you forgotten the last 60 years before the Qatar World Cup? |
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Post by CymruFach on Apr 6, 2024 22:39:24 GMT
We should have qualified out of the group. We should have beaten Poland. Page's tactics are abysmal. Putting Dan James at full back was unbelievable. With him in charge I will not be renewing my long standing Tournament ticket. The men in grey suits have no idea. PS the last World Cup was dreadful, or has everyone forgotten? PLASTEEEEEEEEK!! And what exactly makes you say that ? |
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Post by CymruFach on Apr 7, 2024 15:23:57 GMT
We should have qualified out of the group. We should have beaten Poland. Page's tactics are abysmal. Putting Dan James at full back was unbelievable. With him in charge I will not be renewing my long standing Tournament ticket. The men in grey suits have no idea. PS the last World Cup was dreadful, or has everyone forgotten? Have you forgotten the last 60 years before the Qatar World Cup? No. What has that got to do with Page's failings? Standing on the touchline looking clueless, no idea how to change tactics and react in games. We have excellent players now and should have done better Btw the previous 60 years were not all forgettable.we 'qualified' for the qtr final of Euros v Yugoslavia, victories v Germany, Italy and England and narrowly missed out on USA 84. I know I have lived through it all. I'm not going to shell out money and travel hundreds of miles with this chap in charge. You do if you want. But the talent of the current group of players has been wasted in this last campaign by poor management |
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Post by hooky on Apr 7, 2024 16:54:49 GMT
Referring to past campaigns is very misleading:
1. It was far more difficult to qualify in the past! Now it is almost more difficult not to qualify for a Euro tournament! How many tournament would Wales teams of the past have made if the qualification process was the same as today?
2. Welsh players were prevented by their clubs from playing for Wales many times well into the 70s
3. We have never had such strength in depth or choices in so many positions
4. We have never had such great facilities and investment
5. We have done it recently.
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Post by iot on Apr 7, 2024 19:37:52 GMT
Referring to past campaigns is very misleading: 1. It was far more difficult to qualify in the past! Now it is almost more difficult not to qualify for a Euro tournament! How many tournament would Wales teams of the past have made if the qualification process was the same as today? 2. Welsh players were prevented by their clubs from playing for Wales many times well into the 70s 3. We have never had such strength in depth or choices in so many positions 4. We have never had such great facilities and investment 5. We have done it recently. Can't overly disagree with that, minus the massive exaggeration on the first point re how it's almost harder not to qualify - might be true for 10-15 sides but anyone who thinks it should be easy for us to qualify are kidding themselves. If you look at our qualification groups since the Euros expanded to a 16-team tournament in 1996, it was only Euro 2004 that we would have qualified under the existing format. We finished second-bottom in 96, 2000, and 2012, and third-bottom in 08. So while we should definitely expect to be competing for that qualification spot, I can't get on board with all these fans who seem to think that qualification should have been a given |
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Post by iot on Apr 7, 2024 19:44:26 GMT
Not to give Page any credit for the Croatia victory shows a complete lack of objectivity. The mid press in that game, compressing play, worked a treat. That was one of our best ever results and performances in a qualifying match. Up there with beating Italy. but the attitude of the players was key. You are right - one of our best performances but he did not have to change things did he? I can't argue he did not set us up well for that match, but the key problem is his ability to see things developing in matches and making the correct calls at the right times. A big issue also has been the lack of consistency. We go from that great results versus Croatia to falling behind early against Armenia and drawing to blow another chance. It is just frustrating watching the inconsistency and/or in my view very poor decisions. Its all about opinions but I go into matches worried about him having to make calls within a match. I thought we would beat Poland with our pace up front but was genuinely fearful Page would make mistakes and nothing in that game changed my mind The issue for me is that you're setting standards for Page that have never been set for any other Welsh manager in the past, and then use that to tear him down when he doesn't meet them. You say - ok fair enough, he did set us up well in what was one our best ever qualifier performance, but we didn't do it again in the next game, and there's too much inconsistency. There's a reason why, from recollection, we've only won both games in double-headers on about two or three occasions in the last couple of decades. |
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Post by surge on Apr 7, 2024 21:04:55 GMT
but the attitude of the players was key. You are right - one of our best performances but he did not have to change things did he? I can't argue he did not set us up well for that match, but the key problem is his ability to see things developing in matches and making the correct calls at the right times. A big issue also has been the lack of consistency. We go from that great results versus Croatia to falling behind early against Armenia and drawing to blow another chance. It is just frustrating watching the inconsistency and/or in my view very poor decisions. Its all about opinions but I go into matches worried about him having to make calls within a match. I thought we would beat Poland with our pace up front but was genuinely fearful Page would make mistakes and nothing in that game changed my mind The issue for me is that you're setting standards for Page that have never been set for any other Welsh manager in the past, and then use that to tear him down when he doesn't meet them. You say - ok fair enough, he did set us up well in what was one our best ever qualifier performance, but we didn't do it again in the next game, and there's too much inconsistency. There's a reason why, from recollection, we've only won both games in double-headers on about two or three occasions in the last couple of decades. I think your last sentence is important in so many ways. - Would we have qualified for the World Up without the long gap between the play-offs games? Did Poland feel same emotional charge of getting their version of Bale to a final tournament this time around and how do we play spoiler if facing that again? - It means losing both games in a double header makes it very hard to catch up, so a number of injuries/suspensions/players out of form over two games makes things very difficult, as was the case in this campaign. (But what was the away game before Turkey at home and why were we so poor then?) - Poland strolled through their first game. Was Page wise to keep Ampadu and James on throughout our first? - Page set us up to win in 90 mins with Moore and Brennan Johnson starting but this meant we lacked a counter-punch and Moore was asked to do more than ideal. Could Page have managed the double header better or was risking the win in 90 mins the best available strategy considering how easy Poland had the first game? - It's something we need to work on and part of that is building depth. Until we get two players in each position contributing at Championship or higher level we probably don't have enough depth. (That being said part of the Welsh magic is Jazz Richards shutting down Eden Hazard - players can and do step up a level when wearing our shirt). - Other nations find a way even when playing relatively poorly and falling into play-offs - thinking about Scotland for Euros 2020 and now Poland for 2024. We need to become one of those nations as minimum. We very almost did and arguably would have if there were two more groups games in our qualification - we definitely finished stronger than when we started. We messed up big time and honest reflection needed by men in suits and tracksuits. It's not as simple as some want it to be though. |
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Post by allezlesrouges on Apr 9, 2024 21:02:31 GMT
Have you forgotten the last 60 years before the Qatar World Cup? No. What has that got to do with Page's failings? Standing on the touchline looking clueless, no idea how to change tactics and react in games. We have excellent players now and should have done better Btw the previous 60 years were not all forgettable.we 'qualified' for the qtr final of Euros v Yugoslavia, victories v Germany, Italy and England and narrowly missed out on USA 84. I know I have lived through it all. I'm not going to shell out money and travel hundreds of miles with this chap in charge. You do if you want. But the talent of the current group of players has been wasted in this last campaign by poor management You're moaning about how well we played at a World Cup - that absolutely sounds like you have forgotten the last 60 years! We have decent players now, but we certainly don't have the squad to be demanding that we qualify for every tournament. Our lineup against Poland contained 5 top flight players, Poland's contained 8 - how can you say our squad is comparatively better than theirs? I think they were there for the taking, but over exaggerating our squad to have a pop at Page is strange We went into the campaign with half our squad inactive and without a midfield, that caused us to miss out to Turkey & Croatia - teams who weren't much better than us but had what we lacked in legs and match fitness. Page got outplayed by Armenia twice, but then we outplayed Croatia & Turkey - we didn't miss out because of tactics really, it was because we hadn't found our shape/identity as a team Now we have a structure that we know works at home, we've found a midfield, and it looks like we'll have more top flight players next season That being said we have to work on things still, namely; - We need to trust our bench more and build up caps for fringe players, Jay Dasilva etc... - Find a midfielder at Championship level to join Ampadu & JJ, whether that's Sheehan, Allen or a youngster - Find a way of playing away from home |
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Post by allezlesrouges on Apr 9, 2024 21:06:08 GMT
Referring to past campaigns is very misleading: 1. It was far more difficult to qualify in the past! Now it is almost more difficult not to qualify for a Euro tournament! How many tournament would Wales teams of the past have made if the qualification process was the same as today? 2. Welsh players were prevented by their clubs from playing for Wales many times well into the 70s 3. We have never had such strength in depth or choices in so many positions 4. We have never had such great facilities and investment 5. We have done it recently. 6. For the first time in my lifetime we're lacking a player in the squad who is genuinely world class. It makes a huge difference |
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Post by CymruFach on Jun 6, 2024 18:17:18 GMT
We should have qualified out of the group. We should have beaten Poland. Page's tactics are abysmal. Putting Dan James at full back was unbelievable. With him in charge I will not be renewing my long standing Tournament ticket. The men in grey suits have no idea. PS the last World Cup was dreadful, or has everyone forgotten? BUMP |
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Post by surge on Jun 6, 2024 18:34:13 GMT
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Post by hooky on Jun 6, 2024 18:50:54 GMT
Osian
We have budget limits and he may fail but he will not be as clueless as Page
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Post by allezlesrouges on Jun 6, 2024 20:27:05 GMT
Osian We have budget limits and he may fail but he will not be as clueless as Page I suspect under Page we will fail to qualify for the World Cup and then that will be the end of his tenure. I'd be very surprised if it isn't Osian from 2026 onwards |
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Post by erasedcitizen on Jun 6, 2024 20:42:42 GMT
Osian We have budget limits and he may fail but he will not be as clueless as Page I suspect under Page we will fail to qualify for the World Cup and then that will be the end of his tenure. I'd be very surprised if it isn't Osian from 2026 onwards Class, 2 more years. |
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Post by hooky on Jun 6, 2024 20:55:18 GMT
Had enough of the mediocrity. Massively overpromoted and I seriously think he may not be football league standard.
He has had 8 years or so in the Wales setup and does not seem to have learned much. To me it is astonishing as anyone with that experience in any profession should materially improve
I was struck by the poor performances when he first took over but we kept winning, but then the runup to the Euros and the hammering by Denmark made one think. The turning point when I totally lost faith for the prep for the WC when he was talking about lightening up in training (sounded like to fit everyone else into Bale's pre-match intensity level) and a description of the camp like a holiday camp. It sounded like it lacked professionalism. It seemed a bit odd to me and we so how unfit, and terrible we were in the tournament, thanks to selection and I believe our lack of intensity when preparing and in training. Since, then it has got worse. We may not be good enough to qualify for things now but I genuinely believe he adds nothing to the team and is perhaps even making it worse, as he has surrounded himself with mates/yes men.
Surely there is someone better than him who would take the salary / opportunity. Osian, for example, would surely do a better tactical job than him
Page is a nice guy but I want a competent manager
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Post by quetzal on Jun 6, 2024 21:33:51 GMT
The FAW got to be really careful now. Cymru football team don’t have a massive hardcore following. We’re not like the Rep Of Ireland where 40’000 people will watch dross for years. Cymru crowds will be at 4000 soon. We’re a fickle bunch. Page will get the boot.
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Post by Belle Vue on Jun 6, 2024 21:36:52 GMT
Mooney
Adams
Page
All got to go !!
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Post by dai on Jun 6, 2024 21:53:12 GMT
I think he needs to have a good look in the mirror and realise that he's completely ruining his legacy as a player and also as a manager (although the latter may be ruined already).
I said it two years ago that we were regressing under Page, and I'm not even surprised or shocked at all by the result tonight. I'm not even sad or pissed off either because this is the level of expectation he has brought to the international setup. He's a very negative, defensive individual and has constantly put down us as a country by playing the 'little old Wales' card. How is that meant to motivate and encourage players?
I mentioned in the match thread that his body language was very poor today. While the Gibraltar manager was often on his feet shouting instructions, Page was mostly sat in the dugout looking completely out of his depth - against Gibraltar ffs!!
For me, he looks completely burnt out and void of any motivation. Doesn't come across as someone who is positive and excited about the future of Welsh football. All this talk about 'we're focussed on the plan we have' just sounds like he's reading off a script.
He should not only do the national team setup a favour and walk away, but also for his own wellbeing.
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