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Post by benwelshsalop on Apr 4, 2015 14:41:06 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Apr 4, 2015 14:49:03 GMT
Anyone else waiting with bated breath for Delme Parfitt's take on the rankings? He's long been a keen observer of Wales's position in them I tweeted to ask him. I was very polite. He's now blocked me. The twat. I'm worried Tucker put his head in an oven after the 3rd went in against Israel. Its a long way back from that after some of the shit hes written. |
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Post by llannerch on Apr 4, 2015 15:23:36 GMT
Anyone else waiting with bated breath for Delme Parfitt's take on the rankings? He's long been a keen observer of Wales's position in them I tweeted to ask him. I was very polite. He's now blocked me. The twat. Me too |
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Post by scoop76 on Apr 4, 2015 16:35:41 GMT
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Post by cymruramdcfc on Apr 4, 2015 16:45:51 GMT
Thanks for link.
What's best online Wales sports around (other than apostle  ) to get going one in welsh football ? As out side Wales / uk its hard to find a decent online news
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Post by alarch on Apr 5, 2015 10:08:26 GMT
It would be very intersting to know just how close we would be to a top seed slot if we beat Belgium at home. If we would be very close the question then arises - would a win in a friendly against a high-ranking opponent push us up into the top slot? A detailed understanding of how the FIFA rankings work, and how they could potentially be manipulated in our favour, is essential. I hope the FAW is on the case. It would be very annoying if we don't arrange a friendly before the Belgium match, we win that game, and then "discover" that we've missed out on a top slot by a few ranking points.
By the way, am I right in thinking that the draw for the World Cup 2018 qualifying takes places on 25 July? In which case, the end-of-season friendlies would be the last opportunity to influence the rankings in our favour.
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Post by eppingblue on Apr 5, 2015 10:31:59 GMT
It would be very intersting to know just how close we would be to a top seed slot if we beat Belgium at home. If we would be very close the question then arises - would a win in a friendly against a high-ranking opponent push us up into the top slot? A detailed understanding of how the FIFA rankings work, and how they could potentially be manipulated in our favour, is essential. I hope the FAW is on the case. It would be very annoying if we don't arrange a friendly before the Belgium match, we win that game, and then "discover" that we've missed out on a top slot by a few ranking points. By the way, am I right in thinking that the draw for the World Cup 2018 qualifying takes places on 25 July? In which case, the end-of-season friendlies would be the last opportunity to influence the rankings in our favour. Don't play the friendly. It could be the difference between pot 1 and 2 should we beat Belgium or even the difference between pot 2 and 3 if we lose or draw.
Italy would have been seeded at the Brazil world cup if they hadn't played friendly against San Marino just before the draw too place.
We need to concentrate totally on Belgium and getting a result against them.
The draw does take place on the 25th July but friendly's hardly ever benefit your ranking averages particularly when your averages are reasonable as is our this year.
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Post by abwales on Apr 5, 2015 11:01:20 GMT
I imagine a win against Belgium almost guarantees us a top seed spot given the big % chance and the very high ranking of our opponent.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 5, 2015 11:03:36 GMT
I hope the FAW are aware of this then and hoof that NI friendly into touch.
Surely the best seeding possible for the WC is more important than a warm up for the Belgium game.
Both are obviously important considerations and in contention with each other but being brutally honest the World Cup is the more prestigious competition and qualifying for that should trump any other option. From what Coleman was saying recently it sounds like he doesnt rate friendlies and prefers to have extended training sessions instead so I hope sense prevails and we just play the Belgium game.
How can we convey this information to the FAW? I am concerned that they are not clued up on the machinations of the rankings system. I believe Speed even said as much when he was in charge.
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Post by stu on Apr 5, 2015 11:28:13 GMT
I've asked Edgar for the permuations needed for us to get into pot 1. It could be that we 'only' need to beat Belgium. It's also possible we need to beat Belgium and hope the results of Italy, Slovakia and Czech Rep go our way.
But a friendly against NI will harm our chances even if we beat them.
And yes Speed did say he had no clue about the rankings during an interview with EBC Radio Wales.
You have to hope that someone at the FAW is more clued up now than they were a few years back.
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Post by eppingblue on Apr 5, 2015 11:32:19 GMT
I imagine a win against Belgium almost guarantees us a top seed spot given the big % chance and the very high ranking of our opponent.
No guarantee's I think. A very tight call possibly involving 10 teams. Our record for once helps - we play hardly any competitive football at this time of year and we'll lose very few points. In fact we may even gain in the lower brackets.
The 2011 nations cup win against NI and loss against Scotland will drop out altogether. The wins worth next to no points. The 2012 loss to Mexico was worth 0 points. No games in 2013 and 2014 the loss to Holland reduces in significance.
We should see our historical points go up. In fact it would be very moving tribute to Gary Speed if the points boost he gave us proved significant in the final reckoning. Not wanting to take anything from Chris Colman's achievements.
I'm not sure it matters you could well have Spain and Holland in pot 2. Being in pot 1 would give a huge lift in confidence though.
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Post by welshwizard79 on Apr 5, 2015 11:33:04 GMT
The NI game was in the media in early Jan as a possible fixture and almost 4 months later it hasn't been confirmed. I'd say it's not happening.
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Post by eppingblue on Apr 5, 2015 11:37:47 GMT
I've asked Edgar for the permuations needed for us to get into pot 1. It could be that we 'only' need to beat Belgium. It's also possible we need to beat Belgium and hope the results of Italy, Slovakia and Czech Rep go our way. But a friendly against NI will harm our chances even if we beat them. And yes Speed did say he had no clue about the rankings during an interview with EBC Radio Wales. You have to hope that someone at the FAW is more clued up now than they were a few years back.
You would of thought the Italian FA would have known that playing that friendly against San Marino would cost them a top seed place in Brazil.
In addition to the teams above Holland will be in the reckoning, so will Switzerland and possibly Spain. Poor France don't have a hope of pot 1.
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Post by cymruramdcfc on Apr 5, 2015 11:52:09 GMT
I hope the FAW are aware of this then and hoof that NI friendly into touch. Surely the best seeding possible for the WC is more important than a warm up for the Belgium game. Both are obviously important considerations and in contention with each other but being brutally honest the World Cup is the more prestigious competition and qualifying for that should trump any other option. From what Coleman was saying recently it sounds like he doesnt rate friendlies and prefers to have extended training sessions instead so I hope sense prevails and we just play the Belgium game. How can we convey this information to the FAW? I am concerned that they are not clued up on the machinations of the rankings system. I believe Speed even said as much when he was in charge. You would assume the FAW know the in and outs of the seeding's, |
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Post by biwmares on Apr 9, 2015 10:24:17 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Apr 9, 2015 11:40:40 GMT
I love it:
Why do they feel the need to point that out? Its not really pertinent information. Small man syndrome from this particular BBC reporter?
When we overtake them after beating Belgium whilst they are beating San Marino, the highest seeded team in their joke of a group, will the BBC be saying "and Wales - the highest ranked of the home nations"?
I doubt it!
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Post by erasedcitizen on Apr 9, 2015 12:02:37 GMT
No mention about us reaching our highest ever ranking at all from Sky Sports. Hardly a surprise mind.
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Post by biwmares on Apr 9, 2015 12:11:37 GMT
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Post by eppingblue on Apr 9, 2015 12:36:01 GMT
I love it: Why do they feel the need to point that out? Its not really pertinent information. Small man syndrome from this particular BBC reporter? When we overtake them after beating Belgium whilst they are beating San Marino, the highest seeded team in their joke of a group, will the BBC be saying "and Wales - the highest ranked of the home nations"? I doubt it! As nice as it would be I don't think we could get above England. Their average for the current year will shoot up in July. 2 friendly draws preceeding last years World Cup then a disasterous world cup, will half in relevance. I wouldn't be surprised to see England top 5 in July to be honest. The July rankings will be carnage for the teams that did well or even moderately well in Brazil. Holland, Belgium. France and Switzerland will take a big hit. I wouldn't be surprised to see us above Holland if we beat Belgium.
If we did beat Belgium which is of course a very tall order, then come September after Cyprus and Israel we could be top 10. Yes its bonkers.
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Post by llannerch on Apr 9, 2015 14:53:49 GMT
I love it: Why do they feel the need to point that out? Its not really pertinent information. Small man syndrome from this particular BBC reporter? When we overtake them after beating Belgium whilst they are beating San Marino, the highest seeded team in their joke of a group, will the BBC be saying "and Wales - the highest ranked of the home nations"? I doubt it! As nice as it would be I don't think we could get above England. Their average for the current year will shoot up in July. 2 friendly draws preceeding last years World Cup then a disasterous world cup, will half in relevance. I wouldn't be surprised to see England top 5 in July to be honest. The July rankings will be carnage for the teams that did well or even moderately well in Brazil. Holland, Belgium. France and Switzerland will take a big hit. I wouldn't be surprised to see us above Holland if we beat Belgium.
If we did beat Belgium which is of course a very tall order, then come September after Cyprus and Israel we could be top 10. Yes its bonkers.
My kind of bonkers! |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 9, 2015 14:59:58 GMT
I love it: Why do they feel the need to point that out? Its not really pertinent information. Small man syndrome from this particular BBC reporter? When we overtake them after beating Belgium whilst they are beating San Marino, the highest seeded team in their joke of a group, will the BBC be saying "and Wales - the highest ranked of the home nations"? I doubt it! As nice as it would be I don't think we could get above England. Their average for the current year will shoot up in July. 2 friendly draws preceeding last years World Cup then a disasterous world cup, will half in relevance. I wouldn't be surprised to see England top 5 in July to be honest. The July rankings will be carnage for the teams that did well or even moderately well in Brazil. Holland, Belgium. France and Switzerland will take a big hit. I wouldn't be surprised to see us above Holland if we beat Belgium.
If we did beat Belgium which is of course a very tall order, then come September after Cyprus and Israel we could be top 10. Yes its bonkers.
At least in our case it would be based on continual improvement. Perhaps not quite top 10 but we would have been on one hell of a run without defeat that would (potentially) incorporate Belgium 3 times! So plenty of justification for us being up there. Not bad considering a while back after every good result someone was predicting impending doom in just 90 minutes time- I notice this pessimism is nowhere to be seen after the Israel result. |
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Post by flynnfan on Apr 9, 2015 15:15:51 GMT
I love it: Why do they feel the need to point that out? Its not really pertinent information. Small man syndrome from this particular BBC reporter? When we overtake them after beating Belgium whilst they are beating San Marino, the highest seeded team in their joke of a group, will the BBC be saying "and Wales - the highest ranked of the home nations"? I doubt it! As nice as it would be I don't think we could get above England. Their average for the current year will shoot up in July. 2 friendly draws preceeding last years World Cup then a disasterous world cup, will half in relevance. I wouldn't be surprised to see England top 5 in July to be honest. The July rankings will be carnage for the teams that did well or even moderately well in Brazil. Holland, Belgium. France and Switzerland will take a big hit. I wouldn't be surprised to see us above Holland if we beat Belgium.
If we did beat Belgium which is of course a very tall order, then come September after Cyprus and Israel we could be top 10. Yes its bonkers.
Yeah, thing is, aside from the two games with Serbia, I think we've generally been pretty good since the summer of 2011 (when we were 117) and the ranking improvement has a been a gradual and hard earned one.. this hasn't come out of nowhere. The 3rd best team in the world couldn't beat us at home...twice! (and one of those we had 14 players missing..) |
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Post by BA Baracus on Apr 9, 2015 15:31:41 GMT
I have never for one moment doubted the veracity of the FIFA World Rankings as a barometer of footballing form :-)
Nah, always have my doubt about their use to be honest. But, getting to number 22 is pretty impressive given that when we were 24th in 1994 there were considerably fewer countries in FIFA. I don't think any of the former Soviet or Yugoslav countries were in that table back then.
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Post by alarch on Apr 9, 2015 17:39:35 GMT
Great achievement though it is, the only real significance of our ranking is its bearing on which pot we sit for the World Cup draw. In that regard the FAW should work out in-house, or using the assistance of the likes of Edgar, exactly what the implications would be of the various possible results from our game against Belgium to our pot placement come the World Cup draw on July 25. Possible scenarios:
A defeat would leave us in pot 2 - but uncomfortably close to the boundary. In this event, we should avoid playing a friendly, if losing that game could result in us dropping into pot 3.
If a defeat against Belgium would leave us comfortably in pot 2, so that a defeat in a friendly would not drop us into pot 3, AND, a win would leave us just short of pot 1, so that a win in a suitably arranged friendly before we play Belgium would take us up into pot 1, then we should try our utmost to arrange the friendly. It would probably need to be away to a higher ranked team, but not too far away. Germany or The Netherlands are the obvious candidates. This would obviously be good preparation for Belgium anyway, not least because several weeks will have passed since the end of the season.
What we don't want is to fall just short of pot 1 just because we haven't done our homework and at least considered the possibility of arranging a friendly. That would be unprofessional - and a big disappointment given the much improved professionalism of the FAW recently.
Out of interest, does anybody have any idea what a win over Belgium (regardless of any friendly results) would do to our likely pot placement?
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Post by sleepy on Apr 17, 2015 11:48:02 GMT
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Post by JC on Apr 17, 2015 12:09:32 GMT
21st? Wonder what we'll be if we manage to beat Belgium?!
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Post by underwood on Apr 17, 2015 13:03:10 GMT
I would like to urge a bit of caution at this juncture, let's not get too far ahead of ourselves with talk of beating Belgium, Top 10 rankings, Pot One seedings & World Football domination just yet.
Qualification is the sole & primary aim, by hook or by crook & if that means winning a Penalty Shootout 9-8 at the end of a play-off game (preferably against Scotland as I have a long memory), then so be it. Of course, the happy by-product of automatic qualification is that it brings a maintenance of our ranking as we would have amassed enough wins to compensate for the points that we are about to lose from four years ago at the end of Speed's reign, but getting to France is the only thing that matters frankly.
So let's all make sure that we don't get sidetracked from the job in hand. Expectation can be dangerous, it's the hope that kills you as they say, so likewise let's not have an over-reaction to a potential Belgian loss either, they have some great players who are currently bang in form - Fellaini, Hazard & Benteke to name but three - it's hardly surprising that they are ranked 3rd in the World & could bring us down to earth.
Ultimately how we bounce back from a potential defeat will be the most important thing - not the defeat itself. Having said that we are good enough to get something from the game in June & the players know & believe it. That is the crucial difference between this campaign & the failed ones of the past - BELIEF.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 17, 2015 16:02:30 GMT
I would like to urge a bit of caution at this juncture, let's not get too far ahead of ourselves with talk of beating Belgium, Top 10 rankings, Pot One seedings & World Football domination just yet. Qualification is the sole & primary aim, by hook or by crook & if that means winning a Penalty Shootout 9-8 at the end of a play-off game (preferably against Scotland as I have a long memory), then so be it. Of course, the happy by-product of automatic qualification is that it brings a maintenance of our ranking as we would have amassed enough wins to compensate for the points that we are about to lose from four years ago at the end of Speed's reign, but getting to France is the only thing that matters frankly. So let's all make sure that we don't get sidetracked from the job in hand. Expectation can be dangerous, it's the hope that kills you as they say, so likewise let's not have an over-reaction to a potential Belgian loss either, they have some great players who are currently bang in form - Fellaini, Hazard & Benteke to name but three - it's hardly surprising that they are ranked 3rd in the World & could bring us down to earth. Ultimately how we bounce back from a potential defeat will be the most important thing - not the defeat itself. Having said that we are good enough to get something from the game in June & the players know & believe it. That is the crucial difference between this campaign & the failed ones of the past - BELIEF. I would say the opposite. In terms of strength its arguable that the Euros is the better competition (it remains to be seen whether 24 teams dilutes this) but the world cup is still undoubtedly the pinnacle of the international calendar and if we have to make sacrifices in the Euros in order to grease the wheels of the 2018 bandwagon then personally I think we should do what we can to achieve that. Thankfully it doesnt negatively impact the Euro campaign too much. It means not playing an official friendly before the belgium game and playing for a win against Belgium, a game where even if we lose it does not alter what we have to do in the group. Its not like a defeat against Belgium suddenly means we have to win in Bosnia, its as we were basically. |
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Post by melynwy on Apr 17, 2015 16:30:25 GMT
So let's all make sure that we don't get sidetracked from the job in hand. Nonsense, that's for the players and management to worry about! We fans can dream and speculate all we want. |
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Post by rushlegend on Apr 17, 2015 21:04:28 GMT
Guaranteed that if Wales beat Belgium in June and would be in the top seeds FIFA will change the goalposts (i.e. change the format) to stop it happening - they will base seeding on previous World Cup qualification campaigns like before you mark my words.
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) to get going one in welsh football ? As out side Wales / uk its hard to find a decent online news
