|
|
Post by squatter1 on Mar 25, 2021 12:59:58 GMT
Morell is 24. He couldn’t cut it at Bristol City, now he can’t cut it at Luton Town.
The football industry judges players far more expertly and dispassionately than posters on fan forums.
I agree that relative to his ability level Morrell has done well when he’s come in for us. But his best is not yet good enough for Luton Town and it’s sure not good enough for international football.
|
|
|
|
Post by CrackityJones on Mar 25, 2021 13:04:20 GMT
So who would you play in his place?
|
|
|
|
Post by squatter1 on Mar 25, 2021 13:14:19 GMT
My point is simply that CM is a crisis position for Wales as we only have two anywhere near the desired level (Amps/Allen) and to imagine Joe Morrell might be a ongoing solution for us is currently bonkers. We would be laughing our heads off if - for example - England took the field with a player taken from Luton Town's bench.
Whether we play Morrell/Smith/Sheehan/Vaulks doesn't really change much. There's not a great deal between them (except that only Vaulks currently is considered good enough by a Championship club to play regularly in that division). So I would personally have called up Vaulks, not that I think he's good enough either. I'd also be looking at our abundance of attacking midfielders, and whether one could be adapted for CM when Allen/Amps are injured (to be clear, to consider Ramsey/Brooks/Joniesta/Wilson/Roberts and whether one of them could fill in)
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 25, 2021 13:40:19 GMT
IMO, Matty Smith should have come on to replace Allen last night. Matty is a natural holding midfielder and is very good at making interceptions and tackling. We needed his grit in the middle of the park last night. Morrell is a different player to Allen, with Smith being the most similar player to Allen in our squad. So, I would be happy seeing Smith playing instead of Allen if needed. Fingers crossed Joe's injury is not bad and that he can train after a few days rest. If he isn't in training by the weekend then it will be extremely unlikely he'll play Vs Czech Republic.
|
|
|
|
Post by alarch on Mar 25, 2021 13:52:52 GMT
My point is simply that CM is a crisis position for Wales as we only have two anywhere near the desired level (Amps/Allen) and to imagine Joe Morrell might be a ongoing solution for us is currently bonkers. We would be laughing our heads off if - for example - England took the field with a player taken from Luton Town's bench. Whether we play Morrell/Smith/Sheehan/Vaulks doesn't really change much. There's not a great deal between them (except that only Vaulks currently is considered good enough by a Championship club to play regularly in that division). So I would personally have called up Vaulks, not that I think he's good enough either. I'd also be looking at our abundance of attacking midfielders, and whether one could be adapted for CM when Allen/Amps are injured (to be clear, to consider Ramsey/Brooks/Joniesta/Wilson/Roberts and whether one of them could fill in) This is reminiscent of the arguments put forward by the ignorami who not that long ago made a big deal out of the fact that Allen plays for Stoke - and then he goes and reminds us (not that some of needed it) what a class act he is against Hungary. I couldn't give a monkeys who Morrell or anyone else plays for, as long as they perform well for Cymru. Morrell has largely impressed for us, albeit that (unsurprisingly) his better performances have been against weaker opposition. It may be that the Euros will expose his limitations, but I see plenty of evidence to suggest he's a reasonable understudy to Allen. Stylistically they are similar, as is the case with Smith, but Allen is just that bit sharper in transition, and offensively in general. Joniesta has a few of the skills for a deep-lying role, but I think that ship's sailed with his age and injury record. I see nothing to suggest that Ramsey, Brooks, Wilson nor Roberts have the basic aptitudes for a deep-lying defensive role, so it's Morrell or Smith as alternatives to Ampadu and Allen for now. Levitt may eventually make it, but that's very much up in the air at the moment. I don't really see why the downer on Morrell. On recent showings I'd say he's been on a par with Ampadu, who's been Ok, but has yet to kick on to realise his undoubted potential. |
|
|
|
Post by richierich333 on Mar 25, 2021 14:12:32 GMT
I'm really worried about CM for the future, I mean after Ramsey and Allen. Morrell, Smith, Levitt the front runners but they're not kicking on. I think we may instead see Ampadu and Brennan Johnson becoming regular starters in a few years.
|
|
|
|
Post by allezlesrouges on Mar 25, 2021 14:16:26 GMT
I think Morrell has kicked on very well since his debut against Belarus which really wasn't that long ago
Robbie Burton is another one coming through & let's hope Terry Taylor can kick on too
|
|
|
|
Post by squatter1 on Mar 25, 2021 14:43:06 GMT
My point is simply that CM is a crisis position for Wales as we only have two anywhere near the desired level (Amps/Allen) and to imagine Joe Morrell might be a ongoing solution for us is currently bonkers. We would be laughing our heads off if - for example - England took the field with a player taken from Luton Town's bench. Whether we play Morrell/Smith/Sheehan/Vaulks doesn't really change much. There's not a great deal between them (except that only Vaulks currently is considered good enough by a Championship club to play regularly in that division). So I would personally have called up Vaulks, not that I think he's good enough either. I'd also be looking at our abundance of attacking midfielders, and whether one could be adapted for CM when Allen/Amps are injured (to be clear, to consider Ramsey/Brooks/Joniesta/Wilson/Roberts and whether one of them could fill in) This is reminiscent of the arguments put forward by the ignorami who not that long ago made a big deal out of the fact that Allen plays for Stoke - and then he goes and reminds us (not that some of needed it) what a class act he is against Hungary. I couldn't give a monkeys who Morrell or anyone else plays for, as long as they perform well for Cymru. Morrell has largely impressed for us, albeit that (unsurprisingly) his better performances have been against weaker opposition. It may be that the Euros will expose his limitations, but I see plenty of evidence to suggest he's a reasonable understudy to Allen. Stylistically they are similar, as is the case with Smith, but Allen is just that bit sharper in transition, and offensively in general. Joniesta has a few of the skills for a deep-lying role, but I think that ship's sailed with his age and injury record. I see nothing to suggest that Ramsey, Brooks, Wilson nor Roberts have the basic aptitudes for a deep-lying defensive role, so it's Morrell or Smith as alternatives to Ampadu and Allen for now. Levitt may eventually make it, but that's very much up in the air at the moment. I don't really see why the downer on Morrell. On recent showings I'd say he's been on a par with Ampadu, who's been Ok, but has yet to kick on to realise his undoubted potential. Mate - talking ignorami - you were advocating the return of Jazz Richards last week using the same arguments as above. And since you mention it, Joe Allen playing for Stoke as opposed to playing in the Prem is obviously a bad thing for Wales. When you're not facing the top players every week, you're not going to be as attuned to the pace/quality that comes against the best players. Has Joe been good for us despite demotion to the Champ? Yes. But he would probably have been even more effective had he been playing top level all this time. |
|
|
|
Post by alarch on Mar 25, 2021 15:36:52 GMT
That's a bit disingenous. In relation to Jazz Richards I wasn't advocating for his return, merely wondering if there were some exceptional circumstances whereby he might, given a run of injuries at left back. Neco's performance last night was good enough to suggest that situation is even more remote than it was previously.
Part of my reason for playing devil's advocate on the issue is precisely because of Jazz Richards' current playing club status. Some would preclude him from playing (and presumably any other Cymru player) simply because he plays in the Cymru Premier, regardless of any past contribution. The stance of some on Morrell is merely another manifestation of the same mindset.
Obviously we want players playing at as high a club level as possible - but once players have proved themselves over a significant period of time at a high level then they should have earned our trust that they can continue to perform (with the obvious caveats related to full fitness and age) for Cymru. But even with those players who have yet to play at the highest level, but prove time and time again that they can make a significant contribution to the national cause (Joniesta springs readily to mind) then we should evaluate them at face value and not according to a spurious worthiness agenda based on club status.
|
|
|
|
Post by impeachabull on Mar 25, 2021 15:54:32 GMT
Just on the lack of depth at CM. I think CM/DM is the most different role between international and club football. Much more time on the ball. Ampadu has looked generally poor for Sheffield United in the role, but has mostly been very good for us. Joe Allen has struggled at the bigger clubs even in the peak of his career, but genuinely - *on international football alone* - has been one of the outstanding CMs of the past decade, in my opinion.
|
|
|
|
Post by conwy10 on Mar 25, 2021 18:03:10 GMT
That's a bit disingenous. In relation to Jazz Richards I wasn't advocating for his return, merely wondering if there were some exceptional circumstances whereby he might, given a run of injuries at left back. Neco's performance last night was good enough to suggest that situation is even more remote than it was previously. Part of my reason for playing devil's advocate on the issue is precisely because of Jazz Richards' current playing club status. Some would preclude him from playing (and presumably any other Cymru player) simply because he plays in the Cymru Premier, regardless of any past contribution. The stance of some on Morrell is merely another manifestation of the same mindset. Obviously we want players playing at as high a club level as possible - but once players have proved themselves over a significant period of time at a high level then they should have earned our trust that they can continue to perform (with the obvious caveats related to full fitness and age) for Cymru. But even with those players who have yet to play at the highest level, but prove time and time again that they can make a significant contribution to the national cause (Joniesta springs readily to mind) then we should evaluate them at face value and not according to a spurious worthiness agenda based on club status. I’d love to see Jazz get a few minutes again as a Cymru Premier player. Without turning into Mike Harris if someone gets injured call him up and give him 10 mins against Mexico. On Morrell I don’t see anything in him. Not to be harsh to him but he seems like an Andy King player that doesn’t seem to get up to much except occupying space and playing safe 5 yard passes. If someone points it out to me I’ll check it out to see if I’m missing anything and he is an unsung hero. Or if anyone can mention his best match and I’ll look back at it and see what he did. |
|
|
|
Post by cadno on Jun 4, 2021 8:47:35 GMT
This boy is quality, I've gone off Nathan Jones, he's bonkers not to play Morrell.
If the Swans have sense they'd go all Stoke city and sign a lot of Welsh lads over the summer:
Morrell
Joniesta
Marley Watkins
Gwion Edwards
Emyr Huws
|
|
|
|
Post by evans1282 on Jun 4, 2021 9:27:02 GMT
My point is simply that CM is a crisis position for Wales as we only have two anywhere near the desired level (Amps/Allen) and to imagine Joe Morrell might be a ongoing solution for us is currently bonkers. We would be laughing our heads off if - for example - England took the field with a player taken from Luton Town's bench. Whether we play Morrell/Smith/Sheehan/Vaulks doesn't really change much. There's not a great deal between them (except that only Vaulks currently is considered good enough by a Championship club to play regularly in that division). So I would personally have called up Vaulks, not that I think he's good enough either. I'd also be looking at our abundance of attacking midfielders, and whether one could be adapted for CM when Allen/Amps are injured (to be clear, to consider Ramsey/Brooks/Joniesta/Wilson/Roberts and whether one of them could fill in) As soon as you say "if England...." You lose me and anyone with a brain! Also any person with chubby fingers and poor computer skills! |
|
|
|
Post by allezlesrouges on Jun 4, 2021 10:26:41 GMT
This boy is quality, I've gone off Nathan Jones, he's bonkers not to play Morrell. If the Swans have sense they'd go all Stoke city and sign a lot of Welsh lads over the summer: Morrell Joniesta Marley Watkins Gwion Edwards Emyr Huws Spot on. Perhaps Luton just isn't the right fit for Morrell. I can see him thriving at the Swans, he's surely good enough to be a Championship regular if he can perform like that for us all the time. If he plays at the tournament surely someone will snap him up |
|
|
|
Post by squatter1 on Jun 4, 2021 11:34:15 GMT
My point is simply that CM is a crisis position for Wales as we only have two anywhere near the desired level (Amps/Allen) and to imagine Joe Morrell might be a ongoing solution for us is currently bonkers. We would be laughing our heads off if - for example - England took the field with a player taken from Luton Town's bench. Whether we play Morrell/Smith/Sheehan/Vaulks doesn't really change much. There's not a great deal between them (except that only Vaulks currently is considered good enough by a Championship club to play regularly in that division). So I would personally have called up Vaulks, not that I think he's good enough either. I'd also be looking at our abundance of attacking midfielders, and whether one could be adapted for CM when Allen/Amps are injured (to be clear, to consider Ramsey/Brooks/Joniesta/Wilson/Roberts and whether one of them could fill in) As soon as you say "if England...." You lose me and anyone with a brain! Also any person with chubby fingers and poor computer skills! Come again? |
|
|
|
Post by dai on Jun 4, 2021 11:52:48 GMT
As soon as you say "if England...." You lose me and anyone with a brain! Also any person with chubby fingers and poor computer skills! Come again? Thats what she said. |
|
|
|
Post by evans1282 on Jun 4, 2021 12:27:59 GMT
As soon as you say "if England...." You lose me and anyone with a brain! Also any person with chubby fingers and poor computer skills! Come again? England or any of the "Giants" of world football have a completely different metric for selecting players,using them as any sort of rule of thumb is just stupid.Of course it would be great if everyone played at a higher level but it isn't always a tell of class.I remember Tosh when asked why "premier League player" Danny Collins was overlooked for "Championship players" his answer was there are "premier League players" and "players that play in the premier League" they are not the same thing. |
|
|
|
Post by welwyn on Jun 4, 2021 15:43:57 GMT
This boy is quality, I've gone off Nathan Jones, he's bonkers not to play Morrell. If the Swans have sense they'd go all Stoke city and sign a lot of Welsh lads over the summer: Morrell Joniesta Marley Watkins Gwion Edwards Emyr Huws Spot on. Perhaps Luton just isn't the right fit for Morrell. I can see him thriving at the Swans, he's surely good enough to be a Championship regular if he can perform like that for us all the time. If he plays at the tournament surely someone will snap him up There was a game (possibly Middlesbrough away) where he started, got yanked at HT with us 2-0 down and NJ was talking about ego's and stuff like that in the post-match. The fact that the 2nd half of the season he seemed to be deliberately dragged around the country as 20th man seemed like NJ making a point with what I think is really bad man-management personally, if that is the case. |
|
|
|
Post by cadno on Jun 4, 2021 16:45:01 GMT
Spot on. Perhaps Luton just isn't the right fit for Morrell. I can see him thriving at the Swans, he's surely good enough to be a Championship regular if he can perform like that for us all the time. If he plays at the tournament surely someone will snap him up There was a game (possibly Middlesbrough away) where he started, got yanked at HT with us 2-0 down and NJ was talking about ego's and stuff like that in the post-match. The fact that the 2nd half of the season he seemed to be deliberately dragged around the country as 20th man seemed like NJ making a point with what I think is really bad man-management personally, if that is the case. It sounds like NJ is the one with an ego problem, remember him saying he wants to manage Barcelona. |
|
|
|
Post by welwyn on Jun 4, 2021 17:09:40 GMT
There was a game (possibly Middlesbrough away) where he started, got yanked at HT with us 2-0 down and NJ was talking about ego's and stuff like that in the post-match. The fact that the 2nd half of the season he seemed to be deliberately dragged around the country as 20th man seemed like NJ making a point with what I think is really bad man-management personally, if that is the case. It sounds like NJ is the one with an ego problem, remember him saying he wants to manage Barcelona. That was in his 1st spell. Wasn't quite what he said. It was when he was first attracting interest he said something along the lines of only leaving Luton for an opportunity like Barcelona. Not that it is any less silly a comment in hindsight having left for Stoke. |
|
|
|
Post by dai on Jun 11, 2021 8:47:20 GMT
Anyone notice he's sporting a rather large bandage on his left shin? Must be something nasty to warrant that size.
|
|
|
|
Post by walesgolfmadrid on Jun 16, 2021 19:03:22 GMT
I've got a feeling he'll be getting a move this summer.
|
|
|
|
Post by insertname on Jun 16, 2021 19:11:53 GMT
Morell is 24. He couldn’t cut it at Bristol City, now he can’t cut it at Luton Town. The football industry judges players far more expertly and dispassionately than posters on fan forums. I agree that relative to his ability level Morrell has done well when he’s come in for us. But his best is not yet good enough for Luton Town and it’s sure not good enough for international football. Christ and you mock me for being Nostradamus 😂 |
|
|
|
Post by dai on Jun 16, 2021 19:26:53 GMT
I've said it before and I'll say it again, how on oearth does he not get a kick at bloody Luton?
|
|
|
|
Post by cadno on Jun 16, 2021 19:44:49 GMT
I've said it before and I'll say it again, how on oearth does he not get a kick at bloody Luton? Embarrassing for Nathan Jones mun. Shambles! |
|
|
|
Post by underwood on Jun 16, 2021 19:48:32 GMT
He is the Jonny Williams of 2021.
|
|
|
|
Post by squatter1 on Jun 16, 2021 21:08:08 GMT
Morell is 24. He couldn’t cut it at Bristol City, now he can’t cut it at Luton Town. The football industry judges players far more expertly and dispassionately than posters on fan forums. I agree that relative to his ability level Morrell has done well when he’s come in for us. But his best is not yet good enough for Luton Town and it’s sure not good enough for international football. Christ and you mock me for being Nostradamus 😂 Yeah he’s done fucking great for us fair play. But he’s still the first player we need to upgrade going forward. Ampadu should 100% be playing instead of morell if amps is fully fit |
|
|
|
Post by conwy10 on Jun 17, 2021 8:01:37 GMT
I’ve been hard on the lad. I don’t think he’s the best but he did brilliant last night.
|
|
|
|
Post by allezlesrouges on Jun 17, 2021 11:14:46 GMT
I've said it before and I'll say it again, how on oearth does he not get a kick at bloody Luton? Page said this in his post match presser. I think there will be plenty of suitors lined up after this tournament |
|
|
|
Post by texan on Jun 17, 2021 11:28:08 GMT
I've said it before and I'll say it again, how on oearth does he not get a kick at bloody Luton? Page said this in his post match presser. I think there will be plenty of suitors lined up after this tournament I think this may be true for a few of our squad, none more so than Ward. Also as an aside I'd love to see Ramsey put in a similar performance on Sunday in front of the Italians...just a little reminder to Juve's new manager of what he's actually about! |
|
