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Post by saturn9 on Sept 6, 2021 13:20:54 GMT
he's in effect a manager exactly like Coleman - man manager probably not the greatest ever tactician but we are winning. It was Bale that got us out of loads of dodgy situations during Coleman era too. Spot on buddy. He's been chucked in the deep end not his fault and he's grown into the roll. I quite like him in charge of the team, if he could bring in someone tactically astute similar to how Osian worked with Cookie then we can go far. Give me a name. That could work alongside Page, preferably European. |
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Post by johnoster on Sept 6, 2021 14:04:51 GMT
Terry Henry.
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Post by hooky on Sept 6, 2021 14:23:46 GMT
One thing I am particularly concerned about is our lack of discipline / poor mentality over recent games.
We have given a few red cards and penalties away and we totally lost our shape / were like headless chickens for 10 minutes after their first goal yesterday. Add to that the worst capitulation I have seen from a Wales team in recent years against Denmark where we simply gave up then you have to be asking questions of Page.
Page is not a good tactician, selector or coach but I thought he was a leader? Well recent evidence suggests he is not as he needs to drill home the need for discipline, mental toughness and a good mentality for the games against Czech and Belgium.
If they both beat us due to being better / playing at a higher level then fine. However, if we lose because we gift them goals or do something headless then he needs to take responsibility. Everyone says what a great leader he is well it’s time for him to prove it as recent games suggest the opposite.
As noted elsewhere - his good teams win when playing poorly is bullshit in respect to yesterday as we should definitely have been losing by 2-3 goals and which was our own doing and there was nothing good about it.
So far Bale is the reason we are on track so Mr. Page please make a positive difference! You are a defender, you brought in one her defenders to your coaching team so it’s hard to accept our defence looking like a drunk Sunday pub team for 15 mins yesterday against the mighty Belarus team! It’s really not acceptable when you see minnows like Azerbaijan defending solidly fir 90 mins!
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Post by saturn9 on Sept 6, 2021 14:36:10 GMT
Marcel Desaily would be a better shout. |
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Post by njdragon on Sept 6, 2021 14:37:48 GMT
One thing I am particularly concerned about is our lack of discipline / poor mentality over recent games. We have given a few red cards and penalties away and we totally lost our shape / were like headless chickens for 10 minutes after their first goal yesterday. Add to that the worst capitulation I have seen from a Wales team in recent years against Denmark where we simply gave up then you have to be asking questions of Page. Page is not a good tactician, selector or coach but I thought he was a leader? Well recent evidence suggests he is not as he needs to drill home the need for discipline, mental toughness and a good mentality for the games against Czech and Belgium. If they both beat us due to being better / playing at a higher level then fine. However, if we lose because we gift them goals or do something headless then he needs to take responsibility. Everyone says what a great leader he is well it’s time for him to prove it as recent games suggest the opposite. As noted elsewhere - his good teams win when playing poorly is bullshit in respect to yesterday as we should definitely have been losing by 2-3 goals and which was our own doing and there was nothing good about it. So far Bale is the reason we are on track so Mr. Page please make a positive difference! You are a defender, you brought in one her defenders to your coaching team so it’s hard to accept our defence looking like a drunk Sunday pub team for 15 mins yesterday against the mighty Belarus team! It’s really not acceptable when you see minnows like Azerbaijan defending solidly fir 90 mins! so page is not a good tactician, Selector, coach or leader now - yet he's guided us to one loss and 2 wins in the qualifiers so far and through the group stages of a european qualifier. thats mental. We shouldn't have been losing 2-3 goals as either they missed or ward saved. Thats bad finishing and good goalkeeping and why we have the better side and won.. You could argue that the section of ward by page saved us the game or bringing on harris saved us when there were far more experience options. Its crazy to be criticising a wales side that is winning games when we have lost so many players. Years ago we would have ground out a draw, but this side will go one better. |
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Post by hooky on Sept 6, 2021 16:03:28 GMT
Tactician - the Denmark match showed a lack of tactical nous right.
Selector - Morrell. How many poor consecutive games does he have to play? He is not Bale and the two alternatives offer more forward vision. Colwill over Robson-Kanu because he is a good trainer?
Leadership - up until the Euros I thought Page was bringing this. Then the red cards, penalties and going awol versus Belarus suggests we may have a problem with discipline / mentality.
Look are not experts but something has gone awry over recent months. We can blame the players but you have to question why management is not confronting some of the problems we are seeing.
His argument against my concerns is strong - look at my record versus the weaker teams. I can’t argue and maybe he is doing something that is not apparent that is a massive positive. I hope I am wrong and pray we qualify.
We are stuck with him until the campaign ends and I definitely would not bring someone else in at this late stage. It is not his fault. As stated he failed at Port Vale and the U21s had been erratic under him. Our results under him have been as good as anyone could have expected, especially given the circumstances. The problem is we have a big chance of qualifying for the World Cup and we are concerned that given the poverty of the performances we are going to fail.
When you look at it - have we ever has so many options, especially in an attacking sense and yet we have looked toothless in attack on so many occasions? How come we look amateurish in defence at times despite many within the coaching set up being ex defenders and when we are set up with two defensive central midfielders?
In terms of the man himself - I am proud of how well he has represented Wales to date and there must be a very good team spirit given all the late winners we have scored under him. The problem is we need a bit more from him as a coach to have any chance of beating both Czech and Belgium. The players need to up their levels too!
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Post by allezlesrouges on Sept 6, 2021 16:29:52 GMT
hooky re: Morrell & how many bad games in a row does he have to have? I mean, he got the assist against Switzerland, then played really well against Turkey. After that he was poor against Italy and poor against Denmark, and then he was poor yesterday. So 2 good games followed by 3 bad games in a row is about the right time to start calling for him to be dropped. Any calls before then were premature People wanted him dropped before he did well against Switzerland & Turkey, and then completely ignored the positive performances to start slating him again as soon as possible to suit their agendas You could also argue he should get a bit of a pass for playing badly against the Danes & Italians as they are superior to us & him anyway Either way saying "how many bad games does he have to have?" doesn't really hold water when he just hasn't had that many bad games in a row. Ultimately, yesterday was evidence enough for me on top of the Italy & Denmark games that we need to explore an alternative in that role
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Post by iot on Sept 6, 2021 17:16:22 GMT
Tactician - the Denmark match showed a lack of tactical nous right. Selector - Morrell. How many poor consecutive games does he have to play? He is not Bale and the two alternatives offer more forward vision. Colwill over Robson-Kanu because he is a good trainer? Leadership - up until the Euros I thought Page was bringing this. Then the red cards, penalties and going awol versus Belarus suggests we may have a problem with discipline / mentality. Look are not experts but something has gone awry over recent months. We can blame the players but you have to question why management is not confronting some of the problems we are seeing. His argument against my concerns is strong - look at my record versus the weaker teams. I can’t argue and maybe he is doing something that is not apparent that is a massive positive. I hope I am wrong and pray we qualify. We are stuck with him until the campaign ends and I definitely would not bring someone else in at this late stage. It is not his fault. As stated he failed at Port Vale and the U21s had been erratic under him. Our results under him have been as good as anyone could have expected, especially given the circumstances. The problem is we have a big chance of qualifying for the World Cup and we are concerned that given the poverty of the performances we are going to fail. When you look at it - have we ever has so many options, especially in an attacking sense and yet we have looked toothless in attack on so many occasions? How come we look amateurish in defence at times despite many within the coaching set up being ex defenders and when we are set up with two defensive central midfielders? In terms of the man himself - I am proud of how well he has represented Wales to date and there must be a very good team spirit given all the late winners we have scored under him. The problem is we need a bit more from him as a coach to have any chance of beating both Czech and Belgium. The players need to up their levels too! Your points fall short in a number of places. Just to pick out a couple - you bring up his club managerial record, I could point you towards Coleman's and Southgate's even. It seems to me that what makes a poor club manager doesn't necessarily make a poor international manager, and the same vice versa. You talk about his failure to bring out the best of our attacking talent, but were we any more effective in an attacking sense under Giggs? We scored 12 goals in Giggs' last 10 games, which isn't much better than Page's record |
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Post by hooky on Sept 6, 2021 17:43:55 GMT
Yes but it IS BETTER right?
Also Giggs threw in loads of youngsters straight away and made big tactical adjustments.
I am very disappointed that Giggs let down the nation big time with his off field antics but he, supported by his Dutch assistant, showed more tactical nous and a confidence to take big risks than Page has to date.
On Coleman - he was a leader but he was lucky with having Bale at the peak of his powers right? Bale carried us almost single handed towards qualification. Lets not forget we almost drew at home versus Cyprus and away to Andorra, while we took just 1pt versus Bosnia. That does not suggest evidence of a great tactician. In the Euros our big 3 players tuirned up / were on fire and delivered thankfully. Coleman set up the team very defensively and it worked thanks to Bale but it could have gone wrong. He therefore will rightly be remembered as one of Wales' greatest managers but we saw in the subsequent World Cup qualifiers his limitations / tactical lack of flexibility - did we ever come back from behind in a qualifier under him? Better lucky than good - good in the sense that he had something that the likes of Scotland and Ireland did not have at the time - a World class player (Bale) and one of the best midfielders in Europe (Ramsey)
On Morrell - the limitations were always there. I did not notice him much against a shocking Turkey and the assist against Switzwrland was great / welcome but he did not do much more than that in that game - you may remember we were overan in midfield for most of that game ?? !!!
He has been massively exposed in the last 3 games. He is playing for Portsmouth for a reason. With Allen declining a bit we simply can not afford a passenger in midfield and as someone succinctly summarised with both of them playing then the Welsh midfield is a bit one paced. When possible Ampadu should be there with Allen but if he is not then Levitt and Smith both showed versus Finland that they have far more to their game to offer us - Levitt with his forward passing, while Smith shocked me with the overall dynamism of his game. I realise that was Finland's B team and perhaps they were flattered a bit too much, but they nevertheless showed things that Morrell just does not seem to have in his locker.
Can you imagine how Morrell would fare versus Belgium's midfield? Now Allen and those other two would struggle versus Belgium but Morrell will be a total irrelevance. As stated - watch him - most of the time he seems to be in space when the opposition has the ball rather than engaging them. Levitt and Smith at least have a chance, based on their ability, to have some kind of effect on the game.
Again I appreciate Morrell has given everything for Wales but we are accepting extreme medicority if we argue that he deserves to keep his place. Page needs to wake up and analyse the evidence of his games and what he has actually affected in both a positive and negative sense. There now appear to be better options. Maybe someone has some stats on Morrell which can prove or disprove my observations.
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Post by allezlesrouges on Sept 6, 2021 17:50:44 GMT
Can you imagine how Morrell would fare versus Belgium's midfield? Now Allen and those other two would struggle versus Belgium but Morrell will be a total irrelevance. You do know we don't need to imagine this right? Cos it already happened, and actually he did quite well in that game. Came on for Allen and played well especially in the 2nd half Again I'm not disagreeing that we should play someone else now, but just that previous criticism of him has been overly harsh |
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Post by hooky on Sept 6, 2021 18:19:55 GMT
Can you imagine how Morrell would fare versus Belgium's midfield? Now Allen and those other two would struggle versus Belgium but Morrell will be a total irrelevance. You do know we don't need to imagine this right? Cos it already happened, and actually he did quite well in that game. Came on for Allen and played well especially in the 2nd half Again I'm not disagreeing that we should play someone else now, but just that previous criticism of him has been overly harsh Look it’s an opinion right? Am I more knowledgable than you? Maybe not? Does Page know far more about football than me? Of course he does. Could I be too harsh on Morrell? Perhaps. All I can say is I have followed football and Wales in particular all my life. I have just never rated Morrell. In the Euros I was anxious when he was in ahead of Ampadu. He did not convince me in those matches you say he played well. It’s just my opinion. Subsequently I was not surprised how poor had has been in his last 3 matches for us. I hope somehow he becomes the player we want him to be and I do not question his commitment. However, as we know weaknesses get exploited by good teams and we would all agree out defensive midfield area is our biggest weakness |
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Post by pendragon on Sept 6, 2021 20:09:46 GMT
Would we have to pay Giggs off? I'm on a contract at work with a salary but I can guarantee if I was arrested and charged waiting for a trial I wouldn't be getting paid or still employed. Yes we have to pay Giggs unless he's found guilty of something. As it stands legally speaking he's innocent In theory, they could just sack him if they decided to do so. If there's anything in that contract about bringing the FAW into disrepute, there's nothing in theory stopping them from doing that. This is a civil, not a criminal matter. The reason they won't do that is because Giggs is likely to dispute that and the FAW will likely not want to, nor have the funds, to be drawn into a long, legally protracted case. |
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Post by jackanapes on Sept 6, 2021 21:14:21 GMT
Page has his limitations and it’s obvious to anyone who cares to look, but fan negativity won’t help anyone at this stage. There’s zero chance the FAW will make a change and there’s virtually zero chance he’ll get a tactician alongside him (probably be seen as undermining him). There’s no obvious candidate to replace him and the transition period could well derail our campaign. (Please nobody suggest Cooper).
I think some of his squad choices are mental, his tactical decisions are bizarre, and he doesn’t seem to be able to react quickly to tactical changes in games. But I will back him and this team until the end of this campaign. The last thing we need is a poisonous atmosphere if we fall behind in a game.
Despite mistakes and injuries we’re still in it. We need to take care of the basics against Estonia twice and Belarus, leaving us with two massive games. Anything can happen. I’ve seen worse Wales teams than this get big results. If we can get close to a full squad for the big games we can still get first spot. Results are the only priority now.
Bury your anger and frustration. It’s time to believe and hold firm.
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Post by dai on Sept 7, 2021 12:14:05 GMT
I watched a few games back last night, at a glance admittedly. One thing I've noticed that Page does a lot, or doesn't do, is change the two sitting DM's if we're playing 4-2-3-1. Against Belarus, and in a few other matches we were crying out for some fresh legs in the centre of the park, yet he very rarely subs in those two positions. Why? Morrell and Allen are very similar players, albeit one is obviously better. Smith would have provided more creativity and energy in midfield.
The more and more I watch Wales under Page, the more it seems that players are picked based on either favouritism or sometimes blind faith. Playing a tired Morrell four times in the Euro's was simply extraordinary. I like Morrell, but it's not like he's Bale, James, Rodon, Allen etc. He's almost become undroppable!
Lawrence was having an absolute mare yesterday, but in all fairness he has put in some good performances previously. What I don't understand is, why was he picked ahead of Lockyer, who's a proven player at League 1 and somewhat Championship level? Also, given how bare our defence was looking before Finland, why haven't we bloody called James Chester up?
From the short time w've seen both of them, Harris looks like a much better player than Colwill, but who will be called up first next time?
Some of the selections and decisions just don't make any sense at all anymore.
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Post by iot on Sept 7, 2021 13:08:29 GMT
I watched a few games back last night, at a glance admittedly. One thing I've noticed that Page does a lot, or doesn't do, is change the two sitting DM's if we're playing 4-2-3-1. Against Belarus, and in a few other matches we were crying out for some fresh legs in the centre of the park, yet he very rarely subs in those two positions. Why? Morrell and Allen are very similar players, albeit one is obviously better. Smith would have provided more creativity and energy in midfield. The more and more I watch Wales under Page, the more it seems that players are picked based on either favouritism or sometimes blind faith. Playing a tired Morrell four times in the Euro's was simply extraordinary. I like Morrell, but it's not like he's Bale, James, Rodon, Allen etc. He's almost become undroppable! Lawrence was having an absolute mare yesterday, but in all fairness he has put in some good performances previously. What I don't understand is, why was he picked ahead of Lockyer, who's a proven player at League 1 and somewhat Championship level? Also, given how bare our defence was looking before Finland, why haven't we bloody called James Chester up? From the short time w've seen both of them, Harris looks like a much better player than Colwill, but who will be called up first next time? Some of the selections and decisions just don't make any sense at all anymore. Agree with you that the lack of subs is frustrating - I found it bizarre that he didn't replace Morrell with Levitt or Smith yesterday. I would have made the change at halftime personally. To be fair to him, having watched the game back yesterday, it was Morrell who played that long ball through to Harris right at the death which led to the one on one and subsequently the goal. I also really wanted Morrell to be subbed in that game against Switzerland, only for him to put a great cross in for the equalizer. I think it's way too early to say Page treats Morrell as an "undroppable", but I do think Smith or Levitt currently deserve to be selected ahead of him. I think both Giggs and Page have tended to opt for Lawrence over Lockyer because of the balance from having a left footer and because he's better on the ball. I can't criticize him for it because I think I had him in my starting xi prior to the game (as did a few others). My logic was - although he isn't great defensively, he hadn't dropped a clanger in a while and actually put in a few decent defensive shifts + I thought having his ballplaying ability would be important against a limited, stubborn Belarusian side who I expected to sit deep - thus we needed as much guile and skill on the ball as possible to open them up. As it turned out, I probably underestimated Belarus - they were much more aggressive than I expected and managed to play on the front foot and test us defensively. In hindsight it clearly would have been better to start with Lockyer, but I think you're stretching the truth if you're trying to use that as an example of a decision that doesn't make sense. I think your comment on Harris and Colwill is naive. Harris has been playing senior football for around 3 years, Colwill only came in at the back end of last season and only has a dozen or so senior games to his name. They're also both completely different players. Colwill has certainly showed he's far more talented than Harris, whether he can become an effective player is another matter. |
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Post by redwallnews on Sept 7, 2021 16:59:17 GMT
His subs changed the game the other day.
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harry
the carls
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Post by harry on Sept 7, 2021 19:12:25 GMT
Anything other than a convincing win tomorrow and he needs hounding out
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Post by CrackityJones on Sept 7, 2021 19:23:59 GMT
Anything other than a convincing win tomorrow and he needs hounding out …and you’ll be leading the charge from your keyboard |
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harry
the carls
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Post by harry on Sept 7, 2021 19:38:36 GMT
Anything other than a convincing win tomorrow and he needs hounding out …and you’ll be leading the charge from your keyboard I’ll let the fraud know what I think of him in the ground if we’re not at least three up with 60 minutes gone |
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Post by bluephill on Sept 7, 2021 19:44:13 GMT
I like Pagey. He comes across as a decent, down to earth bloke who has a genuine love for his country. I’d love him to get us to a World Cup finals, I’d be absolutely bloody chuffed for him.
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Post by CrackityJones on Sept 7, 2021 19:52:40 GMT
…and you’ll be leading the charge from your keyboard I’ll let the fraud know what I think of him in the ground if we’re not at least three up with 60 minutes gone Righto tough guy 😂 |
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Post by allezlesrouges on Sept 7, 2021 20:26:42 GMT
Anything other than a convincing win tomorrow and he needs hounding out And what's the specific plan once we successfully hound him out? |
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Post by bluephill on Sept 7, 2021 20:45:40 GMT
Anything other than a convincing win tomorrow and he needs hounding out And what's the specific plan once we successfully hound him out? Bobby Gould? |
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harry
the carls
Posts: 75
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Post by harry on Sept 7, 2021 20:46:21 GMT
Anything other than a convincing win tomorrow and he needs hounding out And what's the specific plan once we successfully hound him out? If he is as amazing as you all think he is, it won’t come to that surely? |
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Post by hooky on Sept 7, 2021 20:51:08 GMT
Page said this:
We're up against a very good Estonia team and we're fully prepared for that. Our short-term aim is to take three points. We're taking each game as it comes and we've got some tough fixtures in October and November.
Very good? Really? These kind of comments are cringe worthy - if we can’t beat them comfortably then there is no point us bothering any more
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Post by CrackityJones on Sept 7, 2021 21:02:20 GMT
Page said this: We're up against a very good Estonia team and we're fully prepared for that. Our short-term aim is to take three points. We're taking each game as it comes and we've got some tough fixtures in October and November. Very good? Really? These kind of comments are cringe worthy - if we can’t beat them comfortably then there is no point us bothering any more What do you expect him to say? “we’re going out there to batter them, they are shit” You’re being a bit silly now aren’t you. |
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Post by allezlesrouges on Sept 7, 2021 21:29:47 GMT
And what's the specific plan once we successfully hound him out? If he is as amazing as you all think he is, it won’t come to that surely? Are you aware of the fact you're dodging the question, or did you do it by accident? |
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Post by allezlesrouges on Sept 7, 2021 21:30:30 GMT
Page said this: We're up against a very good Estonia team and we're fully prepared for that. Our short-term aim is to take three points. We're taking each game as it comes and we've got some tough fixtures in October and November. Very good? Really? These kind of comments are cringe worthy - if we can’t beat them comfortably then there is no point us bothering any more I'm glad Page is taking the game seriously, not being complacent, and respecting the fact that any international opposition will give you a tough game these days I'd be worried if he was telling the players this is a walkover and we can just turn up and roll them over |
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Post by georgetm1 on Sept 7, 2021 21:33:31 GMT
…and you’ll be leading the charge from your keyboard I’ll let the fraud know what I think of him in the ground if we’re not at least three up with 60 minutes gone You reek of entitlement. |
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Post by robin1864 on Sept 8, 2021 20:36:11 GMT
Page should have been shown the door after Denmark. He doesn't have a clue.
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