|
|
Post by robwrecsam on Jun 27, 2021 10:47:48 GMT
Just watched some of the match again ( very painful watch). Firstly we were completely out thought and out fought from about the 15th minute onwards. Secondly Page looked like a rabbit in headlights after the Danish manager changed tactics. He did nothing until it was way too late and the match was lost. Thirdly why take to likes of a “wild card” like colwill when it was blatantly obvious he would NEVER use him? Our midfield was totally overrun yet he brought on two of our smallest players in Brooke’s and Wilson ( both have done very little) colwill is 6ft 2 and could have matched up physically at least. Hindsight it was a very poor decision to take him. We had no legs in the team once the Danes got a foothold. Allen and Morrell were simply no match for their midfield in either skill or physicality why not change things up? Lastly Page doesn’t seem to have the respect of players regarding discipline which has fallen apart dramatically. Red cards galore and that show of dissent from James in first game highlights an underlying problem The whole colwill thing baffles me, the only motive I can put on it was he knew he wouldn’t play him but believes he’s going to be an important player for us in the future and wanted him to experience tournament football as part of the squad. |
|
|
|
Post by allezlesrouges on Jun 27, 2021 11:07:08 GMT
Just watched some of the match again ( very painful watch). Firstly we were completely out thought and out fought from about the 15th minute onwards. Secondly Page looked like a rabbit in headlights after the Danish manager changed tactics. He did nothing until it was way too late and the match was lost. Thirdly why take to likes of a “wild card” like colwill when it was blatantly obvious he would NEVER use him? Our midfield was totally overrun yet he brought on two of our smallest players in Brooke’s and Wilson ( both have done very little) colwill is 6ft 2 and could have matched up physically at least. Hindsight it was a very poor decision to take him. We had no legs in the team once the Danes got a foothold. Allen and Morrell were simply no match for their midfield in either skill or physicality why not change things up? Lastly Page doesn’t seem to have the respect of players regarding discipline which has fallen apart dramatically. Red cards galore and that show of dissent from James in first game highlights an underlying problem You're saying why take Colwill if we were never going to use him, but whoever came in his place would also have never been used? So what would be the point in bringing a different player if whoever it is also wouldn't get played? At least Colwill is a youngster who will have benefitted from being involved in this camp. Much better than having Tom Lawrence in there, and I'm not sure how anyone could argue against that tbh |
|
|
|
Post by conwy10 on Jun 27, 2021 11:25:18 GMT
To be fair to Page we were in crisis ahead of the tournament with all the top people in Welsh football leaving. I’d say he achieved our objectives for the tournament but Denmark showed in a big way all the problems we have, credit to them for that. Changing tactics is a gamble. You work on your set up, your players get comfortable in it, but you’re easily scouted for the next match. We were all debating but we could name the starting lineup and tell how we were going to play.I would have my doubts that Denmark just on the fly changed their system. The manager probably had it well thought out and briefed the players ahead of time that if they need to they’ll switch things up. We were on top and they switched their game plan. Every game we played against a top side in this tournament, ie. Italy and Switzerland, we played with fear and trepidation. I have the sense that there was no game plan or knowledge of how to play a top tier side during this tournament. Compare this with our recent performance against Belgium. Granted they beat us 3-1 but in terms of performance, we matched them. Yesterday, there was no plan b and the team fell apart once Connor was off and the Danes had changed formation. To say, he's done well (which he has tbf) isn't really good enough imo. Cymru deserves better than that. Another report that troubled me was that he frequently contacts Giggs about formation, tactics etc. How much of what is happening on the pitch down to Giggs snd how much is down to Page? Is he able to work on his own initiative? Didn’t know Giggs was still calling the shots. That’s kind of shocking. Last thing we wanted was the manager thinking “what would Giggs do?” I personally thought the Belgium loss was horrendous and nothing to be pleased about. It’s disappointing that the Giggs era started with such promise against Ireland but we’re slowly becoming the team who doesn’t play on the front foot and picks our moments in matches. As long as we win I don’t mind the style or performance, but being defensive and playing horrible football usually has a short shelf life of success. I think for the upcoming Nations League we should accept we’re getting relegated and actually go for a few surprises. If we’re worrying about short term results we’ll get no where. |
|
|
|
Post by conwy10 on Jun 27, 2021 11:30:10 GMT
Just watched some of the match again ( very painful watch). Firstly we were completely out thought and out fought from about the 15th minute onwards. Secondly Page looked like a rabbit in headlights after the Danish manager changed tactics. He did nothing until it was way too late and the match was lost. Thirdly why take to likes of a “wild card” like colwill when it was blatantly obvious he would NEVER use him? Our midfield was totally overrun yet he brought on two of our smallest players in Brooke’s and Wilson ( both have done very little) colwill is 6ft 2 and could have matched up physically at least. Hindsight it was a very poor decision to take him. We had no legs in the team once the Danes got a foothold. Allen and Morrell were simply no match for their midfield in either skill or physicality why not change things up? Lastly Page doesn’t seem to have the respect of players regarding discipline which has fallen apart dramatically. Red cards galore and that show of dissent from James in first game highlights an underlying problem You're saying why take Colwill if we were never going to use him, but whoever came in his place would also have never been used? So what would be the point in bringing a different player if whoever it is also wouldn't get played? At least Colwill is a youngster who will have benefitted from being involved in this camp. Much better than having Tom Lawrence in there, and I'm not sure how anyone could argue against that tbh Completely agree. When people say take HRK it’s not like he would have got on the pitch. Tyler Roberts only got about 10 mins. It was either Moore or a false 9. We had our first 11, a few to compete with them and then just some filler players. If we had faith in them we would have used them. Any others would have just been at the back of the queue to not get game time. |
|
|
|
Post by pendragon on Jun 27, 2021 11:49:29 GMT
Every game we played against a top side in this tournament, ie. Italy and Switzerland, we played with fear and trepidation. I have the sense that there was no game plan or knowledge of how to play a top tier side during this tournament. Compare this with our recent performance against Belgium. Granted they beat us 3-1 but in terms of performance, we matched them. Yesterday, there was no plan b and the team fell apart once Connor was off and the Danes had changed formation. To say, he's done well (which he has tbf) isn't really good enough imo. Cymru deserves better than that. Another report that troubled me was that he frequently contacts Giggs about formation, tactics etc. How much of what is happening on the pitch down to Giggs snd how much is down to Page? Is he able to work on his own initiative? Have Turkey now joined Russia in the ‘don’t count as a top side because we beat them’ category? They are ranked below us, so they are a side that we should expect to be able to beat, or draw at the very least. |
|
|
|
Post by insertname on Jun 27, 2021 11:57:18 GMT
You're saying why take Colwill if we were never going to use him, but whoever came in his place would also have never been used? So what would be the point in bringing a different player if whoever it is also wouldn't get played? At least Colwill is a youngster who will have benefitted from being involved in this camp. Much better than having Tom Lawrence in there, and I'm not sure how anyone could argue against that tbh Completely agree. When people say take HRK it’s not like he would have got on the pitch. Tyler Roberts only got about 10 mins. It was either Moore or a false 9. We had our first 11, a few to compete with them and then just some filler players. If we had faith in them we would have used them. Any others would have just been at the back of the queue to not get game time. But that’s the issue for me- we never had a viable game plan to play a side like Denmark from the off. Moore was plan A but that got cruelly exposed as soon as Denmark re-organised. False 9 had seemed problematic and looked like it got abandoned at the last minute leaving us with no alternatives and no credible reserve striker. Easy to say in hindsight of course but yesterday it was shown up in depressing technicolour how bereft our squad was of players who could change a game at that level, particularly a striker. There was no real flexibility to get someone up alongside Moore apart from Bale who has proven in the past he isn’t really effective as an out and out striker. Moore has proved himself to be useful against 75% of opponents but when you’re playing the likes of Belgium or France we need to have a cannier approach in our arsenal and greater depth. I genuinely think we are currently at a point where we are perhaps better than most nations league B sides but we don’t have the playing squad to really compete at league A level against the elite teams. There just isn’t the quality up front. In some ways that doesn’t bother me. I don’t expect us to compete with the likes of France, I’d be happy if we could consistently beat the lower seeds and qualify for Euros if not world cups. |
|
|
|
Post by aberbeeg on Jun 27, 2021 12:46:43 GMT
You're saying why take Colwill if we were never going to use him, but whoever came in his place would also have never been used? So what would be the point in bringing a different player if whoever it is also wouldn't get played? At least Colwill is a youngster who will have benefitted from being involved in this camp. Much better than having Tom Lawrence in there, and I'm not sure how anyone could argue against that tbh Completely agree. When people say take HRK it’s not like he would have got on the pitch. Tyler Roberts only got about 10 mins. It was either Moore or a false 9. We had our first 11, a few to compete with them and then just some filler players. If we had faith in them we would have used them. Any others would have just been at the back of the queue to not get game time. my point being our midfield wasn’t just being overrun from a skill perspective it was also be8ng out fun from a physical aspect too.At 2-0 down and the players heads on the floor we needed something completely different to even stand a chance of getting a goal back. Colwill @ 6ft 2 would have at least got us back in the midfield fight physically ( he also has goals in his game) Brooke’s and Wilson look about 12 years old and about 6 stone soaking wet!! They were never in a million years going to gain back control of that midfield it was crying out for a last throw of the dice. Use the wild card we had available instead of going out with a whimper. instead it went from bad to worse. |
|
|
|
Post by aberbeeg on Jun 27, 2021 12:51:14 GMT
I think Page got completely exposed at this level. Sometimes you just need to hold your hands up. The Danish manager had him on toast.
A wily old fix would have seen that change much earlier and come back with his own master stroke. Unfortunately Page looked extremely limited and very wooden.
I think it’s time the FAW began the search for a new manager to take us forward
|
|
|
|
Post by fiveattheback on Jun 27, 2021 12:57:06 GMT
Page was thrown into a tough situation and handled himself admirably, I've nothing but respect for him. I think he would also benefit from an experienced manager taking the reins.
Page's naivety was exposed when Denmark changed system, but he'll learn from it. I think he can be too negative at times (switching Bale and James once Neco came on is a defensive move imo, having the more defensive winger on Neco's side) and appears torn between the "progressive" style we apparently play and his more defensive instincts. Working alongside a more experienced manager may help.
Hopefully the FAW recognise the need for an experienced manager to guide this team, but I won't hold my breath
|
|
|
|
Post by pendragon on Jun 27, 2021 12:58:39 GMT
I think Page got completely exposed at this level. Sometimes you just need to hold your hands up. The Danish manager had him on toast. A wily old fix would have seen that change much earlier and come back with his own master stroke. Unfortunately Page looked extremely limited and very wooden. I think it’s time the FAW began the search for a new manager to take us forward Couldn't agree more. I am not convinced that Page is getting the utmost that he possibly can out of these players, especially when I see teams like Hungary and Austria give the likes of Germany and Italy a run for their money. I was concerned by some of his tactical decision-making and I don't want to see us fluff potential chances of World Cup Qualification. Page is a nice guy and he's done his best, but those are not good enough reasons to keep him on imo. |
|
|
|
Post by morg on Jun 27, 2021 13:00:40 GMT
Carl Robinson and Kenny Miller anyone?
|
|
|
|
Post by hooky on Jun 27, 2021 13:15:52 GMT
If Page is the only option then I would be prepared to bring Coleman in with Page as his deputy and hope for the best as a 'short term' fix. We all know Coleman is not a great coach though and may not get the best out of attacking players, but at least the team were disciplined when he was in charge.
Otherwise I want an upgrade.
If there is less than a year on Gigg's contract then pay him off and move on. At least we will have freedom to do what's best for Welsh football. It's disappointing to waste money but we have a shot at a World Cup play off opportunity - we need luck and players available and motivated to suceed but this may be our only chance for 10-20 years! We may need to beat a team as good as Denmark or Croatia to qualify from a play off so we need to sort things out quickly!
|
|
|
|
Post by hooky on Jun 27, 2021 13:16:59 GMT
BTW - I am being realistic. There seems only a remote chance we will beat Belgium and Czech's away and every other game to come first so lets at least get things sorted out in terms of the manager, our style of play well before that play off!
|
|
|
|
Post by aberbeeg on Jun 27, 2021 13:18:48 GMT
We now find ourselves at a crossroads…Page has been extremely exposed at this level with his very limited defensive tactics and more worryingly the extreme lack of discipline on the pitch in the past 12 months.
The FAW need to take a long hard look at themselves and ask themselves have they made the right choice for Welsh football moving forward not just the easy choice.
|
|
|
|
Post by aberbeeg on Jun 27, 2021 13:22:36 GMT
Our mentality seems to have taken a step backwards under page. We look to have become little old Wales again whenever we play the big boys. I thought we had grown past that.
But then when I see also how our discipline has taken a dramatic step backwards ( always the sign of a limited team) I have to look and wonder if page is the problem not the answer.
|
|
|
|
Post by erasedcitizen on Jun 27, 2021 13:30:03 GMT
We now find ourselves at a crossroads…Page has been extremely exposed at this level with his very limited defensive tactics and more worryingly the extreme lack of discipline on the pitch in the past 12 months. The FAW need to take a long hard look at themselves and ask themselves have they made the right choice for Welsh football moving forward not just the easy choice. We got to the round of 16 in a tournament where, on paper we probably aren't in the top 16 teams. I think you are being a little harsh personally. |
|
|
|
Post by aberbeeg on Jun 27, 2021 13:48:08 GMT
We now find ourselves at a crossroads…Page has been extremely exposed at this level with his very limited defensive tactics and more worryingly the extreme lack of discipline on the pitch in the past 12 months. The FAW need to take a long hard look at themselves and ask themselves have they made the right choice for Welsh football moving forward not just the easy choice. We got to the round of 16 in a tournament where, on paper we probably aren't in the top 16 teams. I think you are being a little harsh personally. That’s a matter of opinion I guess….. one look on this board and I’d say it’s 50/50 whether we had a good tournament or not. We did well to get out the group no doubt BUT let’s no bury our heads in the sand and go back to the little ole Wales days please. Robert Page has proved he’s no match for the top level managers. He’s great in interviews and comes across as a nice guy ( more than can be said for Giggs) but he ain’t a top manager that’s for sure. |
|
|
|
Post by aberbeeg on Jun 27, 2021 13:50:28 GMT
The easy option going forward is to stick with the nice guy Page … but what happens the next time we come up against a decent side ? He has 75 mins to try to overcome the change in tactics from the Danes. We could still be there now and wouldn’t score a goal !!!
|
|
|
|
Post by welshiron on Jun 27, 2021 14:35:03 GMT
Think Page is out of his depth to be fair, changes were needed at half time yesterday.
He also should of played 3 at the back as the 2 together aren't good enough.
Also think Moore shouldn't have started against Denmark as he was never going to getvthe better of their centre halves.
O the whole think he has done a good job but I feel these players need/ deserve an experienced manager.
|
|
|
|
Post by welrus on Jun 27, 2021 14:37:52 GMT
Our mentality seems to have taken a step backwards under page. We look to have become little old Wales again whenever we play the big boys. I thought we had grown past that. But then when I see also how our discipline has taken a dramatic step backwards ( always the sign of a limited team) I have to look and wonder if page is the problem not the answer. I agree the mentality and belief has gone backwards. Compare after the England defeat in 2016 - the message from the team was we didn’t do ourselves justice and should have done better. Wind forward to Italy defeat, much more they were a good team and we did our best. I’ve reached the conclusion Page does have what’s needed to be the in the lead, despite him speaking well. There are too many lack lustre and ‘grab a goal’ performances. But let’s be realistic. Page isn’t going anywhere. He’ll be here till Giggs returns, and by then our World Cup qualification will either have gone or still be on. So we have to get behind Page. He is are only route to World Cup qualification. I hope he’s learning quick. |
|
|
|
Post by caeboy on Jun 27, 2021 14:55:46 GMT
We now find ourselves at a crossroads…Page has been extremely exposed at this level with his very limited defensive tactics and more worryingly the extreme lack of discipline on the pitch in the past 12 months. The FAW need to take a long hard look at themselves and ask themselves have they made the right choice for Welsh football moving forward not just the easy choice. I'm not sure that Page is the right person to take us forward longer term, but I'm not sure what we can do until Giggs' case is concluded and the FAW have grounds to sack him. Would we really bring in a manager until next March when we're part way through World Cup qualifying? |
|
harry
the carls
Posts: 75
|
Post by harry on Jun 27, 2021 16:27:46 GMT
Be ruthless and get rid and use the money generated to employ the best candidate.
|
|
|
|
Post by welrus on Jun 27, 2021 16:32:04 GMT
We now find ourselves at a crossroads…Page has been extremely exposed at this level with his very limited defensive tactics and more worryingly the extreme lack of discipline on the pitch in the past 12 months. The FAW need to take a long hard look at themselves and ask themselves have they made the right choice for Welsh football moving forward not just the easy choice. I'm not sure that Page is the right person to take us forward longer term, but I'm not sure what we can do until Giggs' case is concluded and the FAW have grounds to sack him. Would we really bring in a manager until next March when we're part way through World Cup qualifying? No, I don’t think we’ll change before Giggs, and then whenever we are we’ll have Giggs. |
|
|
|
Post by allezlesrouges on Jun 27, 2021 16:49:53 GMT
The easy option going forward is to stick with the nice guy Page … but what happens the next time we come up against a decent side ? He has 75 mins to try to overcome the change in tactics from the Danes. We could still be there now and wouldn’t score a goal !!! Who do you think could realistically manage us who would be guaranteed to get a result with the current squad up against a side as good as Denmark? I'm curious It's easy to take your frustrations out on the manager or players or others. But really all that happened was we came up against a country with better players, and we didn't punch above our weight on this one occasion. Not need to sack the manager for that |
|
|
|
Post by pendragon on Jun 27, 2021 17:18:04 GMT
The easy option going forward is to stick with the nice guy Page … but what happens the next time we come up against a decent side ? He has 75 mins to try to overcome the change in tactics from the Danes. We could still be there now and wouldn’t score a goal !!! Who do you think could realistically manage us who would be guaranteed to get a result with the current squad up against a side as good as Denmark? I'm curious It's easy to take your frustrations out on the manager or players or others. But really all that happened was we came up against a country with better players, and we didn't punch above our weight on this one occasion. Not need to sack the manager for that I'm not sure who could manage us, but I think exploring the idea of employing a more experienced manager has merit. We've qualified for League A of the Nations League and we have a World Cup Qualifying Campaign ahead of us. I think Page has done well so far but we need to step it up a gear if we are going to qualify. To be honest, it wasn't just the one game during this tournament. Our performance against Italy and Switzerland had me concerned and I feared that our weaknesses would be exploited by a stronger team or during a more competitive game. |
|
|
|
Post by aberbeeg on Jun 27, 2021 18:08:19 GMT
The easy option going forward is to stick with the nice guy Page … but what happens the next time we come up against a decent side ? He has 75 mins to try to overcome the change in tactics from the Danes. We could still be there now and wouldn’t score a goal !!! Who do you think could realistically manage us who would be guaranteed to get a result with the current squad up against a side as good as Denmark? I'm curious It's easy to take your frustrations out on the manager or players or others. But really all that happened was we came up against a country with better players, and we didn't punch above our weight on this one occasion. Not need to sack the manager for that So a knockout boxer has one game plan ( to knock out whoever he comes up against) only his next opponent absorbs the knockout boxers punches. Does he stick with the same gameplay and keep trying to knock out his opponent? Or maybe change tactics and hope to win on points? We seem to have only one game plan that got sussed out 15 mins into the match. From that moment on the Danes were in easy street.Page had no other idea so preserved going for plan A until the match was lost. In my opinion a more streetwise manager would have at least tried to counter things instead of looking like a rabbit in headlights. By the end we were a sorry mess with zero game plan whatsoever |
|
|
|
Post by pendragon on Jun 27, 2021 18:13:34 GMT
Who do you think could realistically manage us who would be guaranteed to get a result with the current squad up against a side as good as Denmark? I'm curious It's easy to take your frustrations out on the manager or players or others. But really all that happened was we came up against a country with better players, and we didn't punch above our weight on this one occasion. Not need to sack the manager for that So a knockout boxer has one game plan ( to knock out whoever he comes up against) only his next opponent absorbs the knockout boxers punches. Does he stick with the same gameplay and keep trying to knock out his opponent? Or maybe change tactics and hope to win on points? We seem to have only one game plan that got sussed out 15 mins into the match. From that moment on the Danes were in easy street.Page had no other idea so preserved going for plan A until the match was lost. In my opinion a more streetwise manager would have at least tried to counter things instead of looking like a rabbit in headlights. By the end we were a sorry mess with zero game plan whatsoever Also, what they did, by changing from 3-4-3 to 4-3-3 was hardly rocket science. The lack in response from Page was really quite shocking. It's not the first time either; he's not known for making many tactical changes even when needed. |
|
|
|
Post by gwernybwch on Jun 27, 2021 19:27:01 GMT
Be ruthless and get rid and use the money generated to employ the best candidate. The money 'generated' from where? What sort of candidate do you think that would be attracted to a temporary position (remember that Giggs is still the Manager) on the salary that the FAW can afford to pay? |
|
|
|
Post by insertname on Jun 27, 2021 19:51:47 GMT
Who do you think could realistically manage us who would be guaranteed to get a result with the current squad up against a side as good as Denmark? I'm curious It's easy to take your frustrations out on the manager or players or others. But really all that happened was we came up against a country with better players, and we didn't punch above our weight on this one occasion. Not need to sack the manager for that So a knockout boxer has one game plan ( to knock out whoever he comes up against) only his next opponent absorbs the knockout boxers punches. Does he stick with the same gameplay and keep trying to knock out his opponent? Or maybe change tactics and hope to win on points? We seem to have only one game plan that got sussed out 15 mins into the match. From that moment on the Danes were in easy street.Page had no other idea so preserved going for plan A until the match was lost. In my opinion a more streetwise manager would have at least tried to counter things instead of looking like a rabbit in headlights. By the end we were a sorry mess with zero game plan whatsoever I get people are frustrated with the lack of adaptation but I’ve not seen anyone suggest what Page could and should have actually done. The players crumbled when it mattered most and I’m not convinced there was any formation or player on the bench that would have coaxed 7 or 8/10 performances which is what it would have taken to stop that Denmark side. In fact I wished Ramsey had let his frustration show and picked up a booking because at least I would have known he was actually on the pitch. The BBC player ratings had our best player at 5/10. Good luck trying to out fox the opposition manager when you’ve got a squad full of players of dubious quality who are shitting the bed that badly. |
|
|
|
Post by welshiron on Jun 27, 2021 19:59:58 GMT
Should of played 3 at the back, had
More experience on the pitch, not played Moore against giants, made changes at half time, used the squad better in other games, have an option on the bench like Kanu
|
|
