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Post by dai on Jun 27, 2021 21:45:54 GMT
So a knockout boxer has one game plan ( to knock out whoever he comes up against) only his next opponent absorbs the knockout boxers punches. Does he stick with the same gameplay and keep trying to knock out his opponent? Or maybe change tactics and hope to win on points? We seem to have only one game plan that got sussed out 15 mins into the match. From that moment on the Danes were in easy street.Page had no other idea so preserved going for plan A until the match was lost. In my opinion a more streetwise manager would have at least tried to counter things instead of looking like a rabbit in headlights. By the end we were a sorry mess with zero game plan whatsoever I get people are frustrated with the lack of adaptation but I’ve not seen anyone suggest what Page could and should have actually done. The players crumbled when it mattered most and I’m not convinced there was any formation or player on the bench that would have coaxed 7 or 8/10 performances which is what it would have taken to stop that Denmark side. In fact I wished Ramsey had let his frustration show and picked up a booking because at least I would have known he was actually on the pitch. The BBC player ratings had our best player at 5/10. Good luck trying to out fox the opposition manager when you’ve got a squad full of players of dubious quality who are shitting the bed that badly. If this would have been a Coleman team performance, you'd be going apeshit towards him on here!! |
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Post by gruffudd on Jun 27, 2021 23:24:49 GMT
Answer may have been in the studio, Hughes to come in Page needs help. Pay Giggs off Hughes comes in as the main man.
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Post by insertname on Jun 27, 2021 23:39:55 GMT
Coleman had a better squad of players to choose from so it’s a moot point.
Coleman had Ramsey and Allen in their prime, Page has got a couple of knock off versions bought from the market and that’s the key thing for me. What we needed yesterday at the start of the second half was for our players to calm the fuck down and get their foot on the ball and start dictating the tempo and take the sting out of the game…but who have we got who can do that? Allen and Ramsey’s days of doing that at the top international level look to be gone based on what they have offered at this finals. They looked good against the worst team in the competition but that’s about it.
After Denmark scored their first the game was crying out for players we don’t possess. The squad is full of players who are either inconsistent, out of form, past their best or not playing for their clubs. We have to remember that when having recriminations that we didn’t give Denmark a closer game.
Ultimately I agree with the poster previously who said it was simply a step too far. Our limitations lost us the game as much as Denmark won it.
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Post by aberbeeg on Jun 28, 2021 1:10:58 GMT
So a knockout boxer has one game plan ( to knock out whoever he comes up against) only his next opponent absorbs the knockout boxers punches. Does he stick with the same gameplay and keep trying to knock out his opponent? Or maybe change tactics and hope to win on points? We seem to have only one game plan that got sussed out 15 mins into the match. From that moment on the Danes were in easy street.Page had no other idea so preserved going for plan A until the match was lost. In my opinion a more streetwise manager would have at least tried to counter things instead of looking like a rabbit in headlights. By the end we were a sorry mess with zero game plan whatsoever I get people are frustrated with the lack of adaptation but I’ve not seen anyone suggest what Page could and should have actually done. The players crumbled when it mattered most and I’m not convinced there was any formation or player on the bench that would have coaxed 7 or 8/10 performances which is what it would have taken to stop that Denmark side. In fact I wished Ramsey had let his frustration show and picked up a booking because at least I would have known he was actually on the pitch. The BBC player ratings had our best player at 5/10. Good luck trying to out fox the opposition manager when you’ve got a squad full of players of dubious quality who are shitting the bed that badly. I’ve already suggested he could have thrown on his “wild card option” in Colwill who has goals in his game and who @ 6ft 2 could have at least matched them physically instead he swapped midget morel for midget Wilson and midge5 Allen for Brooke’s who’s 6 stone soaking wet. We gone done physically as well as tactically |
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Post by msjohns on Jun 28, 2021 6:42:32 GMT
Answer may have been in the studio, Hughes to come in Page needs help. Pay Giggs off Hughes comes in as the main man. I can't see any major changes happening until after the World Cup qualifiers, especially with the Giggs case still hanging over everything. If Page takes us to the WC then the job is his for the foreseeable future. However, if he fails then will be the time to possibly approach the likes of Hughes or Coleman. |
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Post by majorraglan on Jun 28, 2021 9:01:49 GMT
Should of played 3 at the back, had More experience on the pitch, not played Moore against giants, made changes at half time, used the squad better in other games, have an option on the bench like Kanu Like all Welsh fans I was very disappointed on Saturday. We started brightly and played well for the first 10 to 15 minutes, but after that we went downhill and Page wasn’t able to make any changes which would have a positive influence on the game and it went from bad to worse, they had the rub of the green but truth is we were hammered. Denmark are a good side with plenty of players from the top leagues in Europe and apart from Ramsey and Bale we don't have their quality. We should have tried to retain possession, instead we lumped it up to Kiefer Moore who, as hard as he tried was isolated and unable to make any inroads. The Danes, having regained possession were then able to reset and launch further attacks. Page didn’t seem to be able to counter the changes made by the Danes, whether that’s because we aren’t good enough or he didn’t know what to do I don’t know. I don’t have the answers, but there will be coaches out there who do and I think we need to consider our options going forward. Page has done a tidy job as a caretaker, but I’d like someone with a bit more experience going forward. |
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Post by pendragon on Jun 28, 2021 10:16:33 GMT
Coleman had a better squad of players to choose from so it’s a moot point. Coleman had Ramsey and Allen in their prime, Page has got a couple of knock off versions bought from the market and that’s the key thing for me. What we needed yesterday at the start of the second half was for our players to calm the fuck down and get their foot on the ball and start dictating the tempo and take the sting out of the game…but who have we got who can do that? Allen and Ramsey’s days of doing that at the top international level look to be gone based on what they have offered at this finals. They looked good against the worst team in the competition but that’s about it. After Denmark scored their first the game was crying out for players we don’t possess. The squad is full of players who are either inconsistent, out of form, past their best or not playing for their clubs. We have to remember that when having recriminations that we didn’t give Denmark a closer game. Ultimately I agree with the poster previously who said it was simply a step too far. Our limitations lost us the game as much as Denmark won it. I do concede that we have a problem with players not getting enough game time with their clubs and while that isn't Page's fault, other things have given me cause for concern. It wasn't just this game where he made no tactical changes at half-time, he hasn't tended to make changes in other games either. A potential stubborness, which gives me cause for concern. He temporarily dropped Kieffer, then brought him back which makes me question his judgement and overall decision-making. Jane Ludlow has questioned whether there is a discipline issue in the side. We can question whether each player deserved red cards (I personally don't think they all did, although it's worth noting that 4 had been issued in quick succession, since the Czech game), but James' reaction to being taken off against Switzerland and the altercation at the Turkey game might suggest that discipline is an issue. It is said he is in regular contact with Giggs with regards to tactics, strategy etc. One has to ask, would he be able to work on his own initiative if given the job full-time? Furthermore, I don't think he was particularly effective with managing the under-21s, and this might be a bridge too far for him. We got some good results initially, such as Finland and Czech Republic. Although we suffered a 3-1 loss to Belgium, our performance was praised, but one has to ask, how much of that was down to Page, Giggs pulling the strings in the background, or the players (who were getting more minutes at their clubs at the time)? |
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Post by iot on Jun 28, 2021 10:48:46 GMT
The main issue for me is a failure to recognise a basic problem that things are not working. It was criminal to play 4-2-3-1 again against a better quality team in Denmark, when we were more or less outplayed by the Swiss. It seems so elementary. Lack of urgency with subs. At 2-0 down you may as well go for broke, and change things to an attacking 3-4-3 or 4-3-3, not just sit there and wait for something to happen. It was painful tonight seeing us completely implode and Page/management didn't seem to have the faintest idea what or how they could change things. Did you we have the players capable of making a difference? Brooks looked poor after coming on tbh. Ramsey and Bale, for all they have done should not be untouchable. Bale in particular looked finished after that initial 20 minutes, Ramsey was also completely ineffective. Why not give opportunities to the players that got us here? Wilson, Joniesta, Matt Smith? I dunno. I said this in another thread - I do feel we have tactically regressed over the last few years, and been far too reliant on luck over anything else. I love how Page speaks, similar to Coleman, but is it enough? Sorry, but this is just the classic football fan response when things go badly - 'why didn't he do this, that or the other? It's so obvious, everyone could see it.' It's just completely reactionary, toys out of the pram stuff and easy to say in hindsight. The truth is, we've used a couple of different systems over the year going into the tournament - 4231 and 523 with a false 9. The limited amount of time we've had in international camps prepared the squad to play those two systems. So we were never goin to change it to one holding midfielder in a 433 when the whole preparation had been based on a double pivot. Page selected what would have been 90% of fans' starting xi for the opening two games. Everyone expected him to start with five at the back and play a false 9. No one expected to see Moore even though the vast majority wanted it. But we went with it, it didn't work well against the Swiss, it worked very well against turkey, and then we changed it for Italy. So I find it frustrating to hear people say now that it was a massive oversight to go with that system and personnel against Denmark when most fans wanted it beforehand. Yes, a few of us (me included) suggested a 433 might have worked better, but that would have been a departure from a year's worth of prep so was never going to happen and probably wouldn't have worked. Just to correct you, we did take morrell off for Wilson when it was 2-0 at the 60min mark, so we did play with a 433 for the last 30 mins and conceded another couple of goals without creating clear chances. I really don't like this type of spoilt attitude after the event |
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Post by dai on Jun 28, 2021 11:08:34 GMT
The main issue for me is a failure to recognise a basic problem that things are not working. It was criminal to play 4-2-3-1 again against a better quality team in Denmark, when we were more or less outplayed by the Swiss. It seems so elementary. Lack of urgency with subs. At 2-0 down you may as well go for broke, and change things to an attacking 3-4-3 or 4-3-3, not just sit there and wait for something to happen. It was painful tonight seeing us completely implode and Page/management didn't seem to have the faintest idea what or how they could change things. Did you we have the players capable of making a difference? Brooks looked poor after coming on tbh. Ramsey and Bale, for all they have done should not be untouchable. Bale in particular looked finished after that initial 20 minutes, Ramsey was also completely ineffective. Why not give opportunities to the players that got us here? Wilson, Joniesta, Matt Smith? I dunno. I said this in another thread - I do feel we have tactically regressed over the last few years, and been far too reliant on luck over anything else. I love how Page speaks, similar to Coleman, but is it enough? Sorry, but this is just the classic football fan response when things go badly - 'why didn't he do this, that or the other? It's so obvious, everyone could see it.' It's just completely reactionary, toys out of the pram stuff and easy to say in hindsight. The truth is, we've used a couple of different systems over the year going into the tournament - 4231 and 523 with a false 9. The limited amount of time we've had in international camps prepared the squad to play those two systems. So we were never goin to change it to one holding midfielder in a 433 when the whole preparation had been based on a double pivot. Page selected what would have been 90% of fans' starting xi for the opening two games. Everyone expected him to start with five at the back and play a false 9. No one expected to see Moore even though the vast majority wanted it. But we went with it, it didn't work well against the Swiss, it worked very well against turkey, and then we changed it for Italy. So I find it frustrating to hear people say now that it was a massive oversight to go with that system and personnel against Denmark when most fans wanted it beforehand. Yes, a few of us (me included) suggested a 433 might have worked better, but that would have been a departure from a year's worth of prep so was never going to happen and probably wouldn't have worked. Just to correct you, we did take morrell off for Wilson when it was 2-0 at the 60min mark, so we did play with a 433 for the last 30 mins and conceded another couple of goals without creating clear chances. I really don't like this type of spoilt attitude after the event It's not a response to things going badly. The Danish game had been a long time coming, and it's frustrating that despite countless similar performances over the past few years against better quality sides, we once again went down the same route. The Swiss arguably should've have put at least 3 past us in the group stages, the Czechs were unlucky not to get a result against us in the WC qualifiers where we sat back for the majority of the match. We were non-existant against Belgium away after taking the lead. Yes it is toys out of the pram because we were completely humiliated. We were all on here having a good old laugh when Ireland lost 5-1 against them in that playoff a few years ago, yet here we are being done over the same way. Don't get me wrong, I didn't mind losing - I thought we would lose. Denmark are a good side, on the up. But to go out in the fashion we did - absolutely awful. It warrants questioning. |
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Post by insertname on Jun 28, 2021 11:08:40 GMT
I get people are frustrated with the lack of adaptation but I’ve not seen anyone suggest what Page could and should have actually done. The players crumbled when it mattered most and I’m not convinced there was any formation or player on the bench that would have coaxed 7 or 8/10 performances which is what it would have taken to stop that Denmark side. In fact I wished Ramsey had let his frustration show and picked up a booking because at least I would have known he was actually on the pitch. The BBC player ratings had our best player at 5/10. Good luck trying to out fox the opposition manager when you’ve got a squad full of players of dubious quality who are shitting the bed that badly. I’ve already suggested he could have thrown on his “wild card option” in Colwill who has goals in his game and who @ 6ft 2 could have at least matched them physically instead he swapped midget morel for midget Wilson and midge5 Allen for Brooke’s who’s 6 stone soaking wet. We gone done physically as well as tactically Well there’s two sides to that, for me. On the one hand you have to wonder what circumstances would have been needed to see Colwill come on. If we were 5-0 up then I guess he would have seen some action. I also agree that the point of a wild card is surely when we look out of our depth and like nothing else we’ve got works or could work. But that being said I’m struggling to think that a young lad with barely any championship tier football to his name is going to come on and turn a game against a street wise outfit like Denmark around. Overall I don’t want to be too harsh as the players have done us proud in getting play off games, qualification and NL promotion. But it’s a pretty threadbare squad to go toe to toe against a Denmark team who had hit their stride and tactically nullified our best player. |
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Post by iot on Jun 28, 2021 12:41:24 GMT
I get people are frustrated with the lack of adaptation but I’ve not seen anyone suggest what Page could and should have actually done. The players crumbled when it mattered most and I’m not convinced there was any formation or player on the bench that would have coaxed 7 or 8/10 performances which is what it would have taken to stop that Denmark side. In fact I wished Ramsey had let his frustration show and picked up a booking because at least I would have known he was actually on the pitch. The BBC player ratings had our best player at 5/10. Good luck trying to out fox the opposition manager when you’ve got a squad full of players of dubious quality who are shitting the bed that badly. I’ve already suggested he could have thrown on his “wild card option” in Colwill who has goals in his game and who @ 6ft 2 could have at least matched them physically instead he swapped midget morel for midget Wilson and midge5 Allen for Brooke’s who’s 6 stone soaking wet. We gone done physically as well as tactically With all due respect, "throw on a big guy to mix it up 'em" isn't the tactical masterstroke you seem to think it is. Of all our issues on Saturday, I would say a lack of height in midfield was probably about bottom. Physicality is of no use if you can't get close to the opposition and they just pass it round you, and to be honest Colwill doesn't strike me as a particularly physical player anyway. He's tall, but very sleight and got absolutely dominated in the air in his first act when he came on against France. You're just looking for simple solutions to complex issues and, inevitably, it's just nonsense. Brooks made a good impact off the bench against Switzerland. He had an incredible season in the premier league just a couple of seasons ago. He was the obvious person to bring off the bench to get us back into the game. My only gripe is that he didn't bring him on sooner instead of Wilson because brooks is far more likely to get on the ball and make things happen. The fact that you're main point is that Page didn't bring on Colwill instead of David Brooks says a lot about the validity of your criticisms to be honest. |
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Post by quetzal on Jun 28, 2021 13:52:23 GMT
Answer may have been in the studio, Hughes to come in Page needs help. Pay Giggs off Hughes comes in as the main man. I can't see any major changes happening until after the World Cup qualifiers, especially with the Giggs case still hanging over everything. If Page takes us to the WC then the job is his for the foreseeable future. However, if he fails then will be the time to possibly approach the likes of Hughes or Coleman. Hughes or Coleman? Wow. That’s scraping the barrel and you know it. |
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Post by msjohns on Jun 28, 2021 16:39:36 GMT
I can't see any major changes happening until after the World Cup qualifiers, especially with the Giggs case still hanging over everything. If Page takes us to the WC then the job is his for the foreseeable future. However, if he fails then will be the time to possibly approach the likes of Hughes or Coleman. Hughes or Coleman? Wow. That’s scraping the barrel and you know it. The FAW are not going to go for a really top experienced manager, so they will work with someone Welsh. I don't see a lot of choices out there right now with Bellamy completely untested as a manager and Steve Cooper producing dreadful football at the Swans. I suppose there is Carl Robinson, but I've never seen his team's in action, so I have no idea. |
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Post by allezlesrouges on Jun 28, 2021 18:46:59 GMT
Who do you think could realistically manage us who would be guaranteed to get a result with the current squad up against a side as good as Denmark? I'm curious It's easy to take your frustrations out on the manager or players or others. But really all that happened was we came up against a country with better players, and we didn't punch above our weight on this one occasion. Not need to sack the manager for that So a knockout boxer has one game plan ( to knock out whoever he comes up against) only his next opponent absorbs the knockout boxers punches. Does he stick with the same gameplay and keep trying to knock out his opponent? Or maybe change tactics and hope to win on points? We seem to have only one game plan that got sussed out 15 mins into the match. From that moment on the Danes were in easy street.Page had no other idea so preserved going for plan A until the match was lost. In my opinion a more streetwise manager would have at least tried to counter things instead of looking like a rabbit in headlights. By the end we were a sorry mess with zero game plan whatsoever You seem to have ignored my question |
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Post by allezlesrouges on Jun 28, 2021 19:20:46 GMT
I really don't get the lashing out at Page after the fact. Not many managers would have got us a result against that Denmark side. Certainly no one who the FAW could afford, and certainly no one Welsh (yes - that is very important & is a key reason for our recent success)
Pre-tournament none of us would argue 2nd place in the group represented a fantastic tournament. That means, because Page achieved that he got the 3 group games spot on. Whether you think we could have done better etc...it's irrelevant. Page was spot on for the group games. You also have to concede that if we achieved that, then his pre-tournament prep was also spot on, so that's the friendlies he got right too
Then you're going back to the WC qualifiers. Took the lead against one of the best sides in the world and then lost fair and square - again not too much you can criticise about that when you compare it to our expectations - we're not world beaters. The Czech game was a brilliant result so once again you have to say he got it spot on
Now the Nations League games where he inherited very difficult circumstances and then got us promoted winning both games. Spot on. So that's 9 games out of 10 where you can't really criticise him when you are looking at the overall results
I get he should have reacted quicker against Denmark, but I'm under no illusions Page is a tactical genius. Should he be sacked for that? Absolutely not. We're Wales, this is our level for now
Another point I'd like to make is that our best performance (poor Turkey side apart) against a good side was like first 20 minutes against France where we actually looked solid & dangerous up against one of the world's best. What formation we're we playing? 4-3-3. I hope moving forwards we explore this. Fluidity is my main area of concern when we play 4-2-3-1, having 2 holding mids is too regimental and means we only have a couple of options further up the pitch to retain the ball. One 6 and two 8s I believe is the answer to getting us playing more creatively, and enables us to fit in our talented players like Wilson, Brooks, Roberts, Colwill whilst not losing out on Bale, James, Ramsey or Moore
I also maintain that I would like to see Tyler Roberts start a game with all our other best players (which he hasn't actually done yet). I thought when he came on he was the only player looking to turn and take people on, and play passes in tight areas to cut the Danes open. I would like to see us do the following against either Estonia or Belarus
Ward
Connor-Mepham-Rodon-Davies
Ampadu
Brooks-Ramsey
Bale-Tyler-James
That team would play attractive football, be far more fluid, and actually keep possession better, with better ball players with their back to goal high up the pitch
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Post by pendragon on Jun 28, 2021 20:08:27 GMT
To be honest, going on his record with the under-21s, I was concerned when he got the caretaker role.
If you look at our performances against Switzerland and Italy, I would argue that more than getting it spot on, the games could easily have gone the way of Denmark if they had been in the knockout stages.
The fact that the team (bar, Allen, Bale and Ramsey) is still relatively inexperienced is even more reason to look for an experienced manager who can instil discipline and form a coherent strategy.
We have the World Cup qualifiers coming up and we may have to take part in a play-off, some of the most important games we will play this year.
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Post by talyfan on Jun 28, 2021 20:16:56 GMT
I really don't get the lashing out at Page after the fact. Not many managers would have got us a result against that Denmark side. Certainly no one who the FAW could afford, and certainly no one Welsh (yes - that is very important & is a key reason for our recent success) Pre-tournament none of us would argue 2nd place in the group represented a fantastic tournament. That means, because Page achieved that he got the 3 group games spot on. Whether you think we could have done better etc...it's irrelevant. Page was spot on for the group games. You also have to concede that if we achieved that, then his pre-tournament prep was also spot on, so that's the friendlies he got right too Then you're going back to the WC qualifiers. Took the lead against one of the best sides in the world and then lost fair and square - again not too much you can criticise about that when you compare it to our expectations - we're not world beaters. The Czech game was a brilliant result so once again you have to say he got it spot on Now the Nations League games where he inherited very difficult circumstances and then got us promoted winning both games. Spot on. So that's 9 games out of 10 where you can't really criticise him when you are looking at the overall results I get he should have reacted quicker against Denmark, but I'm under no illusions Page is a tactical genius. Should he be sacked for that? Absolutely not. We're Wales, this is our level for now Another point I'd like to make is that our best performance (poor Turkey side apart) against a good side was like first 20 minutes against France where we actually looked solid & dangerous up against one of the world's best. What formation we're we playing? 4-3-3. I hope moving forwards we explore this. Fluidity is my main area of concern when we play 4-2-3-1, having 2 holding mids is too regimental and means we only have a couple of options further up the pitch to retain the ball. One 6 and two 8s I believe is the answer to getting us playing more creatively, and enables us to fit in our talented players like Wilson, Brooks, Roberts, Colwill whilst not losing out on Bale, James, Ramsey or Moore I also maintain that I would like to see Tyler Roberts start a game with all our other best players (which he hasn't actually done yet). I thought when he came on he was the only player looking to turn and take people on, and play passes in tight areas to cut the Danes open. I would like to see us do the following against either Estonia or Belarus Ward Connor-Mepham-Rodon-Davies Ampadu Brooks-Ramsey Bale-Tyler-James That team would play attractive football, be far more fluid, and actually keep possession better, with better ball players with their back to goal high up the pitch Like to see Roberts play at one of central midfielders in a three. Plays there often for Leeds, could be really useful there for us I think. Also if we ever were to play that way, I think someone like James Lawrence wouldn't be a bad shout as the left sided centre half and push Rodon to the right. If you're playing that it lends itself to have a left footed centre half who can give you more passing options when on the ball |
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Post by CymruFach on Jun 28, 2021 22:07:21 GMT
Rreview of the Tournament.
Good points.
Good team spirit, good results against Swiss and Turkey, won't count Italy due to weakened team for them.
Bad points.
Mistake not taking Robson Kanu and taking Colwill. Could have done with him to come v Danes. Also much better than Tyier Roberts
Mistake playing Morrell, gave away important possession that led to goals,
Failed to react to Danish tactic changes.
On the whole I think we need an experienced manager in, or very experienced help for him., as Giggs is not going to be back this year.
(Apologies for starting another thread, completely missed this!)
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Post by gwernybwch on Jun 29, 2021 6:45:13 GMT
I really don't get the lashing out at Page after the fact. Not many managers would have got us a result against that Denmark side. Certainly no one who the FAW could afford, and certainly no one Welsh (yes - that is very important & is a key reason for our recent success) This ^^^^ I can't believe all this 'we need an experienced Manager' nonsense on here. The reason why the temporary Manager is an ex-Port Vale Manager is because all we can afford is an ex-Port Vale Manager. We have got a permanent Manager that is going to bleed us for at least another £250k. Maybe if fans could be bothered to buy tickets for a pre-Euro's friendly, the FAW might be able to afford a 'slightly' more experienced Manager? |
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Post by Y Fenni on Jun 29, 2021 7:51:02 GMT
Anyone know for certain what's happening with Albert Stuivenberg now? I'm sure I read he was leaving as Assistant after the Euros. He's obviously been a big part of the setup and has probably been having a big influence on tactics, particularly for the attacking side of our game as Page was initially brought in as a defence coach. If Stuivenberg is moving on, and if we're sticking with Page, we need someone good in that no.2 role.
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Post by pendragon on Jun 29, 2021 8:33:04 GMT
Anyone know for certain what's happening with Albert Stuivenberg now? I'm sure I read he was leaving as Assistant after the Euros. He's obviously been a big part of the setup and has probably been having a big influence on tactics, particularly for the attacking side of our game as Page was initially brought in as a defence coach. If Stuivenberg is moving on, and if we're sticking with Page, we need someone good in that no.2 role. Absolutely. He definitely needs a lot of help! |
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Post by aberbeeg on Jun 29, 2021 8:57:29 GMT
So a knockout boxer has one game plan ( to knock out whoever he comes up against) only his next opponent absorbs the knockout boxers punches. Does he stick with the same gameplay and keep trying to knock out his opponent? Or maybe change tactics and hope to win on points? We seem to have only one game plan that got sussed out 15 mins into the match. From that moment on the Danes were in easy street.Page had no other idea so preserved going for plan A until the match was lost. In my opinion a more streetwise manager would have at least tried to counter things instead of looking like a rabbit in headlights. By the end we were a sorry mess with zero game plan whatsoever You seem to have ignored my question Classic response from any fan who doesn’t want change is “ name me a manger who could do better” well I could reel off at least 50 managers and I’ve no doubt you could but a lot would depend on the FAW If they wanted to push the boat out.I suspect they wouldn’t want to.But let’s not pretend we couldn’t attract a good manager. if I said to you that the FAW are lining up a manager that was sacked by football giants Huddersfield and Port Vale I’m sure you would laugh at me….but hey ho here we are. plus after watch the Swiss knock out France I’m sure even you can see we went out with such a whimper and ended up a complete sorry mess |
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Post by aberbeeg on Jun 29, 2021 9:08:26 GMT
I’ve already suggested he could have thrown on his “wild card option” in Colwill who has goals in his game and who @ 6ft 2 could have at least matched them physically instead he swapped midget morel for midget Wilson and midge5 Allen for Brooke’s who’s 6 stone soaking wet. We gone done physically as well as tactically With all due respect, "throw on a big guy to mix it up 'em" isn't the tactical masterstroke you seem to think it is. Of all our issues on Saturday, I would say a lack of height in midfield was probably about bottom. Physicality is of no use if you can't get close to the opposition and they just pass it round you, and to be honest Colwill doesn't strike me as a particularly physical player anyway. He's tall, but very sleight and got absolutely dominated in the air in his first act when he came on against France. You're just looking for simple solutions to complex issues and, inevitably, it's just nonsense. Brooks made a good impact off the bench against Switzerland. He had an incredible season in the premier league just a couple of seasons ago. He was the obvious person to bring off the bench to get us back into the game. My only gripe is that he didn't bring him on sooner instead of Wilson because brooks is far more likely to get on the ball and make things happen. The fact that you're main point is that Page didn't bring on Colwill instead of David Brooks says a lot about the validity of your criticisms to be honest. With all due respect after watching the Swiss knock out France I’m sure even yourself can see we went out in such embarrassing fashion and ended up a complete sorry mess praying for the ref would blow up to put us out of our misery. So yes I would have thrown on our “wild card” option just to give the Danes something different to think about. ( at 2-0 we were already staring down the barrel ) The problem with Robert page is he looks too rigid and too wooden in his tactics. ( not to mention too defensive).Even his subs are almost always the same. The experienced Danish manager would only need to look at both Swiss and Turkish matches to realise what we would do. When you play defensive and win it’s fine but when you play defensive and get hammered you can rightly expect to be questioned and cristicised. Just cos he’s Welsh and comes across well on tv shouldn’t be enough to keep him in a job that he got by default. |
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Post by aberbeeg on Jun 29, 2021 9:21:42 GMT
Another point that seemed to have been overlooked …our “desperate “ tactics consisted off several Bale long throws into the box hoping someone would get their head on it. …
Firstly Bale is probably one of our better headers of the ball so him taking the throws put us at a huge disadvantage if we were intent on using these last ditch tactics and secondly surely he should have taken Will Vokes even just to bring him on for this reason only thus at least freeing up Bale to get back into the box.
How many players didn’t see a kick of the ball during the whole tournament?
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Post by iot on Jun 29, 2021 9:36:13 GMT
With all due respect, "throw on a big guy to mix it up 'em" isn't the tactical masterstroke you seem to think it is. Of all our issues on Saturday, I would say a lack of height in midfield was probably about bottom. Physicality is of no use if you can't get close to the opposition and they just pass it round you, and to be honest Colwill doesn't strike me as a particularly physical player anyway. He's tall, but very sleight and got absolutely dominated in the air in his first act when he came on against France. You're just looking for simple solutions to complex issues and, inevitably, it's just nonsense. Brooks made a good impact off the bench against Switzerland. He had an incredible season in the premier league just a couple of seasons ago. He was the obvious person to bring off the bench to get us back into the game. My only gripe is that he didn't bring him on sooner instead of Wilson because brooks is far more likely to get on the ball and make things happen. The fact that you're main point is that Page didn't bring on Colwill instead of David Brooks says a lot about the validity of your criticisms to be honest. With all due respect after watching the Swiss knock out France I’m sure even yourself can see we went out in such embarrassing fashion and ended up a complete sorry mess praying for the ref would blow up to put us out of our misery. So yes I would have thrown on our “wild card” option just to give the Danes something different to think about. ( at 2-0 we were already staring down the barrel ) The problem with Robert page is he looks too rigid and too wooden in his tactics. ( not to mention too defensive).Even his subs are almost always the same. The experienced Danish manager would only need to look at both Swiss and Turkish matches to realise what we would do. When you play defensive and win it’s fine but when you play defensive and get hammered you can rightly expect to be questioned and cristicised. Just cos he’s Welsh and comes across well on tv shouldn’t be enough to keep him in a job that he got by default. I was devastated with the way we went out, I still feel absolutely gutted and deflated now. The easy thing to do when you feel like that is to lash out. But it just annoys me when fans who clearly know very little lash out with silly comments as though their suggestions would have made the world of difference. The best you've come up with is he should have thrown Colwill on. That's fine, although I'm fairly certain it would have had little impact and most of us at the time would have much preferred to see Brooks coming on. Page definitely made mistakes. I'm sure other managers would have done things differently and got better results, but let's not forget that we couldn't compete with what Sunderland could offer financially when it came to holding onto Coleman. Our budget is probably League 1 level, so that's the level of manager we'll get. You say you could name 50 managers who could do a better job, just remember those 50 would need to be League 1 level managers. |
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Post by dai on Jun 29, 2021 9:38:50 GMT
Although some may call it 'finding a way to win' or 'grinding out results', the fact is we have been riding our luck for some time now.
Over the past 2 years we've struggled to beat poor sides in the form of Bulgaria, Albania, ROI etc
We were comprehensively outplayed at home vs the USA.
Shouldn't have beaten the Czechs at home - I'm dreading the away fixture.
Didn't deserve a draw against the Swiss.
We had good results against Mexico and Finland, the Mexico one being the stand out result for me.
I mentioned this during the Nations League that despite all the 1-0 wins and being promoted I still felt we were regressing in terms of our on pitch tactics and style of play - the Bulgaria home game was one of the worst games I've ever watched.
I dunno, maybe I'm expecting too much, especially with a squad of players who don't play regularly.
But Page's' decision can still be questioned. I like Morrell, but he hasn't played football since Christmas, yet he's expected to play 4 intense games in a matter of weeks. We had Matt Smith on the bench who had a solid season in League 1 - ignored.
Jonny Williams was solely responsible for 2 wins in the Nations League and doesn't get a look in, what the hell?
Why drop Moore before the Euro's in favour of the false 9 then suddenly reinstall him and got with on big man up top?
What ever you think of him, Tyler Roberts is probably classed as PL regular now, hardly makes an appearance?
Leaving HRK at home when we desperately needed his ball holding abilities (pardon) and physical presence up top.
Our main strength lies in defence, where we are fortunate to have quite a few decent options now. Play to your strengths! Coleman knew during his time we had better defensive options than up top, and that's what he focused on - made us hard to beat.
Also, Page doesn't seem to learn based on past results and performances.
Ah, f*ck, I dunno. I'm rambling on like an 'expert'.............for all the build up, the kids singing the anthem, all the marketing, the songs, I'm just gutted we were completely humiliated when most other teams are giving a good account of themselves.
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Post by allezlesrouges on Jun 29, 2021 9:44:55 GMT
You seem to have ignored my question Classic response from any fan who doesn’t want change is “ name me a manger who could do better” well I could reel off at least 50 managers and I’ve no doubt you could but a lot would depend on the FAW If they wanted to push the boat out.I suspect they wouldn’t want to.But let’s not pretend we couldn’t attract a good manager. if I said to you that the FAW are lining up a manager that was sacked by football giants Huddersfield and Port Vale I’m sure you would laugh at me….but hey ho here we are. plus after watch the Swiss knock out France I’m sure even you can see we went out with such a whimper and ended up a complete sorry mess Nope you're wrong. My question wasn't "who could do better?". It was who could the FAW realistically employ who could do a better job? My point being there is no good answer to that questio Why would I ask you to sit there and reel off the top names in management like Guardiola, Pep, Tuchel & Mourinho? |
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Post by allezlesrouges on Jun 29, 2021 9:54:20 GMT
You seem to have ignored my question Classic response from any fan who doesn’t want change is “ name me a manger who could do better” well I could reel off at least 50 managers and I’ve no doubt you could but a lot would depend on the FAW If they wanted to push the boat out.I suspect they wouldn’t want to.But let’s not pretend we couldn’t attract a good manager. if I said to you that the FAW are lining up a manager that was sacked by football giants Huddersfield and Port Vale I’m sure you would laugh at me….but hey ho here we are. plus after watch the Swiss knock out France I’m sure even you can see we went out with such a whimper and ended up a complete sorry mess And also, the fact Switzerland have done so well against a top side highlights how well we did to better them over 3 games in the group, and shows you are downplaying this achievement. We have had a good tournament despite how hard you are trying to make out that we haven't |
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Post by CrackityJones on Jun 29, 2021 11:18:28 GMT
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Post by welshiron on Jun 29, 2021 13:08:32 GMT
Think Page has done,all we can expect, but maybe we should expect more.
We are a good team and should have an experienced manager at the helm.
Would like to see someone of that ilk with Page as number 2
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