|
|
Post by aberbeeg on Jun 29, 2021 13:53:08 GMT
Classic response from any fan who doesn’t want change is “ name me a manger who could do better” well I could reel off at least 50 managers and I’ve no doubt you could but a lot would depend on the FAW If they wanted to push the boat out.I suspect they wouldn’t want to.But let’s not pretend we couldn’t attract a good manager. if I said to you that the FAW are lining up a manager that was sacked by football giants Huddersfield and Port Vale I’m sure you would laugh at me….but hey ho here we are. plus after watch the Swiss knock out France I’m sure even you can see we went out with such a whimper and ended up a complete sorry mess And also, the fact Switzerland have done so well against a top side highlights how well we did to better them over 3 games in the group, and shows you are downplaying this achievement. We have had a good tournament despite how hard you are trying to make out that we haven't If you had said to me at the start we would reach the last 16 I think I’d have been happy. The fact we got absolutely battered/humiliated by a half decent Danish side certainly makes it a lot harder to stomach. Surely even your half glass full attitude surely can see The Danish manager had Page on toast tactically and how limited he was at this elite level. We may be little ole Wales but doesn’t mean we have to act like little ole Wales when it comes to settling for a manager sacked by Port Vale ? Or maybe it does who knows |
|
|
|
Post by allezlesrouges on Jun 29, 2021 16:54:35 GMT
And also, the fact Switzerland have done so well against a top side highlights how well we did to better them over 3 games in the group, and shows you are downplaying this achievement. We have had a good tournament despite how hard you are trying to make out that we haven't If you had said to me at the start we would reach the last 16 I think I’d have been happy. The fact we got absolutely battered/humiliated by a half decent Danish side certainly makes it a lot harder to stomach. Surely even your half glass full attitude surely can see The Danish manager had Page on toast tactically and how limited he was at this elite level. We may be little ole Wales but doesn’t mean we have to act like little ole Wales when it comes to settling for a manager sacked by Port Vale ? Or maybe it does who knows I completely agree that the Danish manager got the better of him tactically. But my question still remains...who can the FAW realistically employ who could have got us a result against a good Danish side with a tactically strong manager? |
|
|
|
Post by welrus on Jun 29, 2021 19:57:19 GMT
So mixed views on Page.
The Denmark performance has brought to the surface underlying issues. Results and performances are not the same thing in the short term - but over time performances will impact on results. And that's why people are worried about Page. Realistically we had one good performance against Turkey. Performances have been deteriorating whether we like it or not. Page's unremarkable managerial career has limited success and if anything has started well at clubs and tended to go downhill. I do wonder if that is what we are seeing here - I hope not.
Having said that he's going nowhere. He's a caretaker, his results have been good, so why would FAW sack him. The Giggs position is also a real problem if things go wrong.
As to who can we afford. Well, we can't afford a top top manager. I'm imagine we are getting Giggs 'at a discount' as he'd been struggling to get a club job. How about Cameron Toshak? Did a great job at Swansea's U23 creating a winning team and bringing through the likes of James, C Roberts, and Rodon - others too. Turned Pafos right around in his only real stint in the hot seat. Ok - this is hardly top level stuff but its more than Giggs had - and its a pretty consistent track record of success. I'd take a chance on him.
|
|
|
|
Post by squatter1 on Jun 29, 2021 20:14:36 GMT
So mixed views on Page. The Denmark performance has brought to the surface underlying issues. Results and performances are not the same thing in the short term - but over time performances will impact on results. And that's why people are worried about Page. Realistically we had one good performance against Turkey. Performances have been deteriorating whether we like it or not. Page's unremarkable managerial career has limited success and if anything has started well at clubs and tended to go downhill. I do wonder if that is what we are seeing here - I hope not. Having said that he's going nowhere. He's a caretaker, his results have been good, so why would FAW sack him. The Giggs position is also a real problem if things go wrong. As to who can we afford. Well, we can't afford a top top manager. I'm imagine we are getting Giggs 'at a discount' as he'd been struggling to get a club job. How about Cameron Toshak? Did a great job at Swansea's U23 creating a winning team and bringing through the likes of James, C Roberts, and Rodon - others too. Turned Pafos right around in his only real stint in the hot seat. Ok - this is hardly top level stuff but its more than Giggs had - and its a pretty consistent track record of success. I'd take a chance on him. I was with you till you mentioned Cameron Toshack. Nothing against him, but come on get real. Pissing in the wind with someone who's done nothing nowhere? The only reason you'd get rid of Page at this point if is you had someone of clear experience and track record over him. And what Welsh managers fit that bill? Hughes? Coleman? Pullis? None of them excite anyone. The FAW would love Steve Cooper but there's no way he'd take the national job while he's on the cusp of a premier league gig. It will stay with Page for better or worse till the end of the WC qualifiers at least. |
|
|
|
Post by welrus on Jun 29, 2021 20:18:20 GMT
So mixed views on Page. The Denmark performance has brought to the surface underlying issues. Results and performances are not the same thing in the short term - but over time performances will impact on results. And that's why people are worried about Page. Realistically we had one good performance against Turkey. Performances have been deteriorating whether we like it or not. Page's unremarkable managerial career has limited success and if anything has started well at clubs and tended to go downhill. I do wonder if that is what we are seeing here - I hope not. Having said that he's going nowhere. He's a caretaker, his results have been good, so why would FAW sack him. The Giggs position is also a real problem if things go wrong. As to who can we afford. Well, we can't afford a top top manager. I'm imagine we are getting Giggs 'at a discount' as he'd been struggling to get a club job. How about Cameron Toshak? Did a great job at Swansea's U23 creating a winning team and bringing through the likes of James, C Roberts, and Rodon - others too. Turned Pafos right around in his only real stint in the hot seat. Ok - this is hardly top level stuff but its more than Giggs had - and its a pretty consistent track record of success. I'd take a chance on him. I was with you till you mentioned Cameron Toshack. Nothing against him, but come on get real. Pissing in the wind with someone who's done nothing nowhere? The only reason you'd get rid of Page at this point if is you had someone of clear experience and track record over him. And what Welsh managers fit that bill? Hughes? Coleman? Pullis? None of them excite anyone. The FAW would love Steve Cooper but there's no way he'd take the national job while he's on the cusp of a premier league gig. It will stay with Page for better or worse till the end of the WC qualifiers at least. If the FAW like Steve Cooper they have no idea at all. Please please no, not Steve Cooper. |
|
|
|
Post by msjohns on Jun 29, 2021 20:24:16 GMT
I was with you till you mentioned Cameron Toshack. Nothing against him, but come on get real. Pissing in the wind with someone who's done nothing nowhere? The only reason you'd get rid of Page at this point if is you had someone of clear experience and track record over him. And what Welsh managers fit that bill? Hughes? Coleman? Pullis? None of them excite anyone. The FAW would love Steve Cooper but there's no way he'd take the national job while he's on the cusp of a premier league gig. It will stay with Page for better or worse till the end of the WC qualifiers at least. If the FAW like Steve Cooper they have no idea at all. Please please no, not Steve Cooper. Cooper is probably on more money at Swansea than he would get with Wales, so it will not happen anyway. Page has earned the right to take us into the WC qualifiers. Let's see how we proceed before we get rid. |
|
|
|
Post by flutterdinho on Jun 29, 2021 20:36:11 GMT
I was with you till you mentioned Cameron Toshack. Nothing against him, but come on get real. Pissing in the wind with someone who's done nothing nowhere? The only reason you'd get rid of Page at this point if is you had someone of clear experience and track record over him. And what Welsh managers fit that bill? Hughes? Coleman? Pullis? None of them excite anyone. The FAW would love Steve Cooper but there's no way he'd take the national job while he's on the cusp of a premier league gig. It will stay with Page for better or worse till the end of the WC qualifiers at least. If the FAW like Steve Cooper they have no idea at all. Please please no, not Steve Cooper. What's the problem with Steve Cooper? |
|
|
|
Post by msjohns on Jun 29, 2021 20:38:26 GMT
Dreadful football.
|
|
|
|
Post by CymruFach on Jun 29, 2021 22:12:26 GMT
I dont think many have said sack Page, I think the consensus is that he needs help if he is to be in charge for the Worid Cup Qualifiers.
We have had £11m + in price money from the Euros btw. Even after UEFA cut it back.
The prize money from the World Cup, even qualifying, would surely be more.
I dont think we are that short of money, and fans will be back
|
|
|
|
Post by gwernybwch on Jun 29, 2021 22:16:32 GMT
As to who can we afford. Well, we can't afford a top top manager. I'm imagine we are getting Giggs 'at a discount' as he'd been struggling to get a club job. How about Cameron Toshak? Did a great job at Swansea's U23 creating a winning team and bringing through the likes of James, C Roberts, and Rodon - others too. Turned Pafos right around in his only real stint in the hot seat. Ok - this is hardly top level stuff but its more than Giggs had - and its a pretty consistent track record of success. I'd take a chance on him. Depends what you deem to be a discount. Giggs is on a reported £500k a year. No doubt much less than he was earning at Man U, but it is still more than Coleman was earning post Euro 2016. Don't know an awful lot about Cameron Toshack, but it is good to read someone being realistic about the level of Manager that the FAW can currently afford. |
|
|
|
Post by aberbeeg on Jun 30, 2021 12:37:29 GMT
If you had said to me at the start we would reach the last 16 I think I’d have been happy. The fact we got absolutely battered/humiliated by a half decent Danish side certainly makes it a lot harder to stomach. Surely even your half glass full attitude surely can see The Danish manager had Page on toast tactically and how limited he was at this elite level. We may be little ole Wales but doesn’t mean we have to act like little ole Wales when it comes to settling for a manager sacked by Port Vale ? Or maybe it does who knows I completely agree that the Danish manager got the better of him tactically. But my question still remains...who can the FAW realistically employ who could have got us a result against a good Danish side with a tactically strong manager? Firstly I don’t think Page is going anywhere but even his biggest fans have admitted to him being very limited in his tactics hence being completely exposed and embarrassed against a good ( but not world beating) Danish team. Secondly I don’t think you can just say,well our new manager would need to be at league 1 level maximum. You can’t tell me if there was a vacancy the FAW would get no candidates any higher than league 1 level ( even taking into account the salary). Thirdly what ever name I throw at you ( ie Bellamy,Mark Bowen,Toshack,Cooper etc) you will find reason to counter. This isn’t about us coming up with a name for a new manager this is us finding out how limited Page is and discussing what we would like to happen going forward. |
|
|
|
Post by aberbeeg on Jun 30, 2021 12:40:58 GMT
Don’t forget Page got the job by default. He certainly wasn’t taken on as the head manager and he is only the manager cos of how slimy Giggs was.
I seriously doubt Page would have gotten the job under normal circumstances ie if he had to interview against 20 other experienced candidates.
He is in the job cos he was the easy/cheap option
|
|
|
|
Post by CrackityJones on Jun 30, 2021 14:13:32 GMT
Don’t forget Page got the job by default. He certainly wasn’t taken on as the head manager and he is only the manager cos of how slimy Giggs was. I seriously doubt Page would have gotten the job under normal circumstances ie if he had to interview against 20 other experienced candidates. He is in the job cos he was the easy/cheap option Everyone knows that, I’m not sure what point you are trying to make any more. You’re just laying into Page on as many threads as possible on a daily basis. |
|
|
|
Post by aberbeeg on Jun 30, 2021 14:47:38 GMT
Don’t forget Page got the job by default. He certainly wasn’t taken on as the head manager and he is only the manager cos of how slimy Giggs was. I seriously doubt Page would have gotten the job under normal circumstances ie if he had to interview against 20 other experienced candidates. He is in the job cos he was the easy/cheap option Everyone knows that, I’m not sure what point you are trying to make any more. You’re just laying into Page on as many threads as possible on a daily basis. My point is our manager got dramatically exposed and I for one are questioning IF he’s the right person to take us forward. He comes across as a nice guy but that shouldn’t stop fans asking questions heaven forbid. |
|
|
|
Post by allezlesrouges on Jun 30, 2021 15:01:15 GMT
I completely agree that the Danish manager got the better of him tactically. But my question still remains...who can the FAW realistically employ who could have got us a result against a good Danish side with a tactically strong manager? This isn’t about us coming up with a name for a new manager this is us finding out how limited Page is and discussing what we would like to happen going forward. 1) I've never said this 2) That is precisely my point. You're coming on here and hammering Page questioning whether he is "the man for the job" to put it in your words My counter argument is that despite him making a tactical mistake against Denmark, he is still the best man for the job. I have evidenced this point by asking you to come up with a viable alternative, which you've failed to do. Your approach is sack first, think about consequences later. IMO that's the type of approach that would see our nation plummet the world rankings You say you were embarrassed by our performance by Denmark. I say I'm proud Wales are a top 16 team in Europe and in the League A of the Nations League, only a couple of games away from the World Cup. I think the scales balance in my favour |
|
|
|
Post by 1gwaunview on Jun 30, 2021 15:16:06 GMT
Give Robert Page the World Cup qualifiers to prove himself. The players seem to enjoy working with him and it looked from a distance to be a happy camp. I don't think it was solely down to his tactical naivety last Saturday, the players seemed to be knackered after 20 mins I thought. All the travelling, heat etc..caught up with them.
|
|
|
|
Post by insertname on Jun 30, 2021 15:25:43 GMT
Give Robert Page the World Cup qualifiers to prove himself. The players seem to enjoy working with him and it looked from a distance to be a happy camp. I don't think it was solely down to his tactical naivety last Saturday, the players seemed to be knackered after 20 mins I thought. All the travelling, heat etc..caught up with them.
The players are getting off scot free in my view. The ones you would expect to stand up simply didn’t perform at these finals apart from against Turkey and yet the knives are only out for Page. The way we lost all composure after Denmark’s first goal was particularly disappointing. But saying that as has been said previously at least we got to the last 16, sometimes conducting a forensic search to find someone to blame defeats the purpose and robs the joy from what has been achieved. |
|
|
|
Post by aberbeeg on Jul 1, 2021 1:29:01 GMT
Secondly I don’t think you can just say,well our new manager would need to be at league 1 level maximum. You can’t tell me if there was a vacancy the FAW would get no candidates any higher than league 1 level ( even taking into account the salary).Thirdly what ever name I throw at you ( ie Bellamy,Mark Bowen,Toshack,Cooper etc) you will find reason to counter. This isn’t about us coming up with a name for a new manager this is us finding out how limited Page is and discussing what we would like to happen going forward. 1) I've never said this 2) That is precisely my point. You're coming on here and hammering Page questioning whether he is "the man for the job" to put it in your words My counter argument is that despite him making a tactical mistake against Denmark, he is still the best man for the job. I have evidenced this point by asking you to come up with a viable alternative, which you've failed to do. Your approach is sack first, think about consequences later. IMO that's the type of approach that would see our nation plummet the world rankings You say you were embarrassed by our performance by Denmark. I say I'm proud Wales are a top 16 team in Europe and in the League A of the Nations League, only a couple of games away from the World Cup. I think the scales balance in my favour So are we not allowed to even question our National manager these days? I would say the balance ( on here) is about 50/50 in terms of did Page do well. Your proud that were a top 16 team so am I. That doesn’t mean that we can’t question that last game. |
|
|
|
Post by allezlesrouges on Jul 1, 2021 10:07:35 GMT
1) I've never said this 2) That is precisely my point. You're coming on here and hammering Page questioning whether he is "the man for the job" to put it in your words My counter argument is that despite him making a tactical mistake against Denmark, he is still the best man for the job. I have evidenced this point by asking you to come up with a viable alternative, which you've failed to do. Your approach is sack first, think about consequences later. IMO that's the type of approach that would see our nation plummet the world rankings You say you were embarrassed by our performance by Denmark. I say I'm proud Wales are a top 16 team in Europe and in the League A of the Nations League, only a couple of games away from the World Cup. I think the scales balance in my favour So are we not allowed to even question our National manager these days? I would say the balance ( on here) is about 50/50 in terms of did Page do well. Your proud that were a top 16 team so am I. That doesn’t mean that we can’t question that last game. I haven't told you what you can and can't say. You've criticised Page and I've criticised your criticisms. I'm criticising what you have said because it doesn't hold up when you think about it for a few minutes I'd say the balance on here re:if Page did well is much higher than 50% in his favour. I think the majority on here recognise that he achieved what was expected of him, despite a disappointing exit |
|
|
|
Post by aberbeeg on Jul 1, 2021 12:21:30 GMT
So are we not allowed to even question our National manager these days? I would say the balance ( on here) is about 50/50 in terms of did Page do well. Your proud that were a top 16 team so am I. That doesn’t mean that we can’t question that last game. I haven't told you what you can and can't say. You've criticised Page and I've criticised your criticisms. I'm criticising what you have said because it doesn't hold up when you think about it for a few minutes I'd say the balance on here re:if Page did well is much higher than 50% in his favour. I think the majority on here recognise that he achieved what was expected of him, despite a disappointing exit Ok I think that’s a fair point to draw a line in the sand. Let’s hope he can get us to the World cup |
|
|
|
Post by quetzal on Jul 1, 2021 12:29:03 GMT
There are still a few things I’m struggling to move on from. The Colwill over HRK was bollocks. The Neco error for 2nd goal. The other one is that Rob Page was clueless after 25 minutes when they went from back 5 to 4. No trust there now. Give me another week and I’ll be at the acceptance stage.
|
|
|
|
Post by aberbeeg on Jul 1, 2021 21:35:49 GMT
There are still a few things I’m struggling to move on from. The Colwill over HRK was bollocks. The Neco error for 2nd goal. The other one is that Rob Page was clueless after 25 minutes when they went from back 5 to 4. No trust there now. Give me another week and I’ll be at the acceptance stage. Best be careful making any criticism on this site 😱🤫 |
|
|
|
Post by rangers15 on Jul 2, 2021 8:16:02 GMT
I've been keeping my powder dry since the Denmark game - and I'm still massively disappointed to go out in the manner we did whilst also being really proud to have got to the Euros and got out of a difficult group.
to me, it just looked like lack of game time for a few players really caught up with them after 4 games in a row (Morrell, Allen, Ramsey, Bale... and to a lesser extent James). it would have been a massive gamble for Page to start Smith or Levitt in Midfield so I understand why he didn't. And Ampadu was also carrying an injury going into the tournament (I'm not saying we would have won if Ethan was playing against Denmark but I don't think we'd have been as overrun as we were).
And whilst anyone is allowed to criticise the management decisions I think its always best to be realistic. we lost that game in midfield which is an area we are not very strong in.
What we really need, and this is out of Page's control, is our players playing regularly.
|
|
|
|
Post by dlwilliams on Jul 2, 2021 15:44:19 GMT
There are still a few things I’m struggling to move on from. The Colwill over HRK was bollocks. The Neco error for 2nd goal. The other one is that Rob Page was clueless after 25 minutes when they went from back 5 to 4. No trust there now. Give me another week and I’ll be at the acceptance stage. Got to agree with this. It's absolute nonsense picking someone on the basis of a few weeks' training. It just smacked at the time of the Walcott selection in 2006. He was obviously never going to play a minute of any game. |
|
|
|
Post by fiveattheback on Jul 2, 2021 17:14:45 GMT
HRK was obviously never in the plan, let it go.
|
|
|
|
Post by allezlesrouges on Jul 2, 2021 21:03:06 GMT
Neither Hal or Colwill were ever going.to get minutes. So I don't see why anyone would possibly complain about the decision to pick one over the other in the squad
Had he picked Hal and not played him people on here would be saying "why bother taking Hal if he was never planning to use him. Better off giving minutes.to a youngster who would benefit from the experience of a tournament camp"
|
|
|
|
Post by saints19 on Jul 4, 2021 3:22:48 GMT
My take is that Page has done pretty damn well and would clearly be the main choice to take over if Giggs is convicted of the charges, which of course he hasn't been as yet.
Won the NL group including getting the critical result against Finland, beat the Czechs in our critical qualifier, and got us to the round of 16 at the Euros finals - this is a very solid record and I would 100% back him to continue.
The defeat against Denmark was poor, but it's one game and the players have to accept some of the blame. Judging managers on one game is absolute rubbish - look at the whole tenure.
For me Page has proved himself - at least in terms of getting the job permanently, ie the full World Cup campaign. Most managers get one campaign and then review at the end, I'd have no hestitation giving Page a full campaign at this point.
|
|
|
|
Post by jackanapes on Jul 4, 2021 7:52:02 GMT
My take is that Page has done pretty damn well and would clearly be the main choice to take over if Giggs is convicted of the charges, which of course he hasn't been as yet. Won the NL group including getting the critical result against Finland, beat the Czechs in our critical qualifier, and got us to the round of 16 at the Euros finals - this is a very solid record and I would 100% back him to continue. The defeat against Denmark was poor, but it's one game and the players have to accept some of the blame. Judging managers on one game is absolute rubbish - look at the whole tenure. For me Page has proved himself - at least in terms of getting the job permanently, ie the full World Cup campaign. Most managers get one campaign and then review at the end, I'd have no hestitation giving Page a full campaign at this point. I’d agree with most of that. He’s definitely made us more defensively solid and managed to get results. Given the FAWs approach to these matters it’s highly unlikely anybody else will get a look in. However, the performances over the last year have highlighted justified concerns. Firstly, our lack of creativity in most games is a huge problem and I’m not sure he has the skills or experience to address this. On the whole we’ve tried to keep things tight and nick a goal here and there. It’s worked, but only just. We’ve been minutes away from poor results in quite a few games. Secondly, the lack of tactical flexibility within games. In both Denmark and Switzerland games in play changes were needed to react to our opponents game plan, and we didn’t really get this. I accept it’s difficult, that he lacks top level managerial experience and that he was limited by players available. However, I think we need a more tactically astute manager to get the maximum out if this group of players. To summarise, I think he did a reasonable job given the circumstances and he’ll do a reasonable job in the WC qualifiers. But I think we’ll see the same problems and types of performances while he remains in charge. |
|
|
|
Post by aberbeeg on Jul 4, 2021 8:35:58 GMT
My take is that Page has done pretty damn well and would clearly be the main choice to take over if Giggs is convicted of the charges, which of course he hasn't been as yet. Won the NL group including getting the critical result against Finland, beat the Czechs in our critical qualifier, and got us to the round of 16 at the Euros finals - this is a very solid record and I would 100% back him to continue. The defeat against Denmark was poor, but it's one game and the players have to accept some of the blame. Judging managers on one game is absolute rubbish - look at the whole tenure. For me Page has proved himself - at least in terms of getting the job permanently, ie the full World Cup campaign. Most managers get one campaign and then review at the end, I'd have no hestitation giving Page a full campaign at this point. I’d agree with most of that. He’s definitely made us more defensively solid and managed to get results. Given the FAWs approach to these matters it’s highly unlikely anybody else will get a look in. However, the performances over the last year have highlighted justified concerns. Firstly, our lack of creativity in most games is a huge problem and I’m not sure he has the skills or experience to address this. On the whole we’ve tried to keep things tight and nick a goal here and there. It’s worked, but only just. We’ve been minutes away from poor results in quite a few games. Secondly, the lack of tactical flexibility within games. In both Denmark and Switzerland games in play changes were needed to react to our opponents game plan, and we didn’t really get this. I accept it’s difficult, that he lacks top level managerial experience and that he was limited by players available. However, I think we need a more tactically astute manager to get the maximum out if this group of players. To summarise, I think he did a reasonable job given the circumstances and he’ll do a reasonable job in the WC qualifiers. But I think we’ll see the same problems and types of performances while he remains in charge. Absolutely Bang on !!! |
|
|
|
Post by njdragon on Jul 4, 2021 9:37:11 GMT
its the balance between international football, do you have a man manager or a tactician. Coleman - man manager, toschack more or a tactical manager, giggs - probably more tactical
you're lucky to get both.
i'd prefer a man management approach, like page. Plus he has tournament experience now he will have learnt a lot from this. Would you risk bringing someone new in an spoiling this 'feel good factor' they talk about?
|
|
