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Post by dai on Jul 12, 2021 15:02:26 GMT
Tournament fans my arse. I've been following Wales long enough now to know what a poor account of ourselves is. We are ranked 18th in the world, yet teams below us - Czechs, Hungary, Austria, Sweden looked a step above during this tournament. The Swiss are only two places above us, yet looked in a different league - we didn't deserve to draw them in the group stages if we're being honest with ourselves. Do the rankings flatter us though? I'm really interested to see how fare in League A of the Nations League. No real expectations, but I wonder how competitive we can be. Sweden were in a poor group. Hungary excelled but they were aided by playing in front of 66,000 partisan fans. Austria put in one top performance against Italy, they weren’t particularly good in the group and failed to take numerous chances against that poor Ukraine side. So all in all comparing us with others is fraught with difficulty because of mitigating circumstances and the fact that all group stage groups are not equal in terms of quality. At the end of the day we can only judge our own results by what we know to be true: one of our opponents knocked France out and got to the quarter finals, the other won the whole thing and our knockout round opponents were able to play a home game against us and took their journey in the competition into extra time against the host nation. The scoreline against Denmark is the major issue I feel. If it had been a 1-0 defeat I suspect the campaign would largely be deemed a success.Let’s be fair though in terms of what everybody thought we would achieve iirc only me and allezlesrouges and manulike seemed to have any confidence we would qualify so it seems odd for people to now say we didn’t perform well when we exceeded most expectations that we would finish bottom of the group. Yes, perhaps you're right. I mentioned before the game that I expected us to lose, and there'll be no shame in that. But to be hammered 4-0 (should have been more) was a very bitter pill to swallow, especially after the whole bullshit of having next to no fans. When was the last time we imploded like that? |
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Post by allezlesrouges on Jul 12, 2021 21:18:30 GMT
Sweden were in a poor group. Hungary excelled but they were aided by playing in front of 66,000 partisan fans. Austria put in one top performance against Italy, they weren’t particularly good in the group and failed to take numerous chances against that poor Ukraine side. So all in all comparing us with others is fraught with difficulty because of mitigating circumstances and the fact that all group stage groups are not equal in terms of quality. At the end of the day we can only judge our own results by what we know to be true: one of our opponents knocked France out and got to the quarter finals, the other won the whole thing and our knockout round opponents were able to play a home game against us and took their journey in the competition into extra time against the host nation. The scoreline against Denmark is the major issue I feel. If it had been a 1-0 defeat I suspect the campaign would largely be deemed a success.Let’s be fair though in terms of what everybody thought we would achieve iirc only me and allezlesrouges and manulike seemed to have any confidence we would qualify so it seems odd for people to now say we didn’t perform well when we exceeded most expectations that we would finish bottom of the group. Yes, perhaps you're right. I mentioned before the game that I expected us to lose, and there'll be no shame in that. But to be hammered 4-0 (should have been more) was a very bitter pill to swallow, especially after the whole bullshit of having next to no fans. When was the last time we imploded like that? It shouldn't have been more against Denmark, if anything it should have been less |
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Post by insertname on Jul 12, 2021 23:13:16 GMT
Sweden were in a poor group. Hungary excelled but they were aided by playing in front of 66,000 partisan fans. Austria put in one top performance against Italy, they weren’t particularly good in the group and failed to take numerous chances against that poor Ukraine side. So all in all comparing us with others is fraught with difficulty because of mitigating circumstances and the fact that all group stage groups are not equal in terms of quality. At the end of the day we can only judge our own results by what we know to be true: one of our opponents knocked France out and got to the quarter finals, the other won the whole thing and our knockout round opponents were able to play a home game against us and took their journey in the competition into extra time against the host nation. The scoreline against Denmark is the major issue I feel. If it had been a 1-0 defeat I suspect the campaign would largely be deemed a success.Let’s be fair though in terms of what everybody thought we would achieve iirc only me and allezlesrouges and manulike seemed to have any confidence we would qualify so it seems odd for people to now say we didn’t perform well when we exceeded most expectations that we would finish bottom of the group. Yes, perhaps you're right. I mentioned before the game that I expected us to lose, and there'll be no shame in that. But to be hammered 4-0 (should have been more) was a very bitter pill to swallow, especially after the whole bullshit of having next to no fans. When was the last time we imploded like that? Imploded is the right word, the scoreline was an act of self harm borne of frustration at the conditions rather than an example of Denmark’s superiority. It was patently obvious that heads had gone and things spilled over when the players realised that the second goal was going to stand despite technology being there to rule it out. The score was immaterial after that. The only shock was that the ref didn’t climb highest at the far post to majestically head in a 5th for Denmark from a cross by Ceferin such was the manner in which we had been dominated by the circumstances: the ref, no fans and the amount of travel. Way too much credence is being given to the scoreline in isolation and not enough to what what would have been going through the players heads. We’ve all seen football enough to know that when footballers heads go down and they down tools the scoreline can get skewed. Denmark deserved the win, but they hadn’t really earned the emphatic scoreline built in no small way on an advantageous position they went into the game with. |
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Post by walesgolfmadrid on Jul 13, 2021 2:39:20 GMT
I'd hate to think what you think of some of the performances by other nations - we got to the last 16 through which now appears to be the hardest group of the tournament and only lost to the semi-finalists and the eventual winners. Drew a very good Swiss team and played well against a Turkey team that was well fancied. Certainly gave a good account of ourselves. We are a top 16 nation, we're not yet a top 8 nation. Yes we need to play better, but not buying this we were terrible attitude. The Swiss swatted Turkey away like a fly, yet it took us until over 90mins to get the job done. For the record, I don't think we're 'terrible' in general (that would be completely daft), just we didn't give a good account of ourselves during this tournament. Only a few years ago we completely manhandled Hungary at home, we looked quite far off that sort of standard now. Looking at the games, I don't know how fit the likes of Ramsey, Bale and Allen were. Allen is usually like a metronome for us in midfield, but even he struggled. Are Denmark really a 4-0 hammering better than us? We played reasonably well against them at home a few years ago, and obviously external factors were against us, but we couldn't even touch them after the first 15 mins. We weren't at home though. I don't have much doubt that had we been at home, we'd have been able to do far better than we were able to without more than a couple of fans at any of the games and having to effectively played three of our four games away from home. No other side has ever effectively had to play three away games in a major tournament. Away from home our best result in qualifying was the win over Azerbaijan, and the Turkey win at the Euros was far better than that one. We could have and should have made it easier for ourselves with our finishing, but we went in to the game as underdogs to win so it has to be considered a good win. As for the later comment, 4-0 wasn't a reflection of the difference between the two sides. They were comfortably better than us on the day, but the reason it was the score it was, was because we were chasing the game at 2-0 down and putting as many players as we could forward including when we were a man down due to that ridiculous decision. |
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Post by squatter1 on Jul 13, 2021 10:08:57 GMT
We faced 3 out of the 5 best teams out if the tournament but because page got tactics wrong after 20 mins against Denmark We did great. We sadly now have tournament fans Tournament fans my arse. I've been following Wales long enough now to know what a poor account of ourselves is. We are ranked 18th in the world, yet teams below us - Czechs, Hungary, Austria, Sweden looked a step above during this tournament. The Swiss are only two places above us, yet looked in a different league - we didn't deserve to draw them in the group stages if we're being honest with ourselves.Do the rankings flatter us though?I'm really interested to see how fare in League A of the Nations League. No real expectations, but I wonder how competitive we can be. Of course the rankings flatter us, I mean, duh! The point is that Wales - the smallest nation in the competition - is massively overachieving by being 19th in the rankings, and by being in the tournament in the first place. Being in the top 20 doesn't mean we have the same standard of players and depth of squad as the other teams in the top 20. Because we don't. We have a kid from Luton Town's bench in the heart of our midfield ffs. We had something like the most players from the championship compared to any other nation in the tournament. The fact we are at the top table is a massive overachievement in the first place. If you assume just because we have massively overachieved by being in the top 20 that therefore we have the same amount of top level players as the teams around us such as Switzerland, Sweden, Czechs etc, obviously you are being totally naive. Every year we manage to stay at this level in the rankings is another achievement, and another year of the golden age of Welsh football. We will never be able to assume that we can breeze past bigger nations, it will always be a struggle. That's why every time we beat a nation like Turkey - population 82m, football crazy, wealthy professional league system - at a major tournament it is such a precious and wonderful thing. Welsh fans need to retain perspective and realism or else they'll forever just be moaning and thrashing around on forums like this. People on here are either before the event 'we should walk qualification in this group it should be easy' or after the event they are outraged that we didn't beat a top ten team in the last 16. Both of which are completely naive positions to take. |
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Post by dai on Jul 13, 2021 10:57:11 GMT
Tournament fans my arse. I've been following Wales long enough now to know what a poor account of ourselves is. We are ranked 18th in the world, yet teams below us - Czechs, Hungary, Austria, Sweden looked a step above during this tournament. The Swiss are only two places above us, yet looked in a different league - we didn't deserve to draw them in the group stages if we're being honest with ourselves.Do the rankings flatter us though?I'm really interested to see how fare in League A of the Nations League. No real expectations, but I wonder how competitive we can be. Of course the rankings flatter us, I mean, duh! The point is that Wales - the smallest nation in the competition - is massively overachieving by being 19th in the rankings, and by being in the tournament in the first place. Being in the top 20 doesn't mean we have the same standard of players and depth of squad as the other teams in the top 20. Because we don't. We have a kid from Luton Town's bench in the heart of our midfield ffs. We had something like the most players from the championship compared to any other nation in the tournament. The fact we are at the top table is a massive overachievement in the first place. If you assume just because we have massively overachieved by being in the top 20 that therefore we have the same amount of top level players as the teams around us such as Switzerland, Sweden, Czechs etc, obviously you are being totally naive. Every year we manage to stay at this level in the rankings is another achievement, and another year of the golden age of Welsh football. We will never be able to assume that we can breeze past bigger nations, it will always be a struggle. That's why every time we beat a nation like Turkey - population 82m, football crazy, wealthy professional league system - at a major tournament it is such a precious and wonderful thing. Welsh fans need to retain perspective and realism or else they'll forever just be moaning and thrashing around on forums like this. People on here are either before the event 'we should walk qualification in this group it should be easy' or after the event they are outraged that we didn't beat a top ten team in the last 16. Both of which are completely naive positions to take. Both statements of which I've never said. Also, I myself, have never claimed we should breeze past nations. My thoughts and feelings is that we can at least be more competitive in certain games. Was beating Turkey that great? I'd say most teams in the Euro's would have beaten them - even Macedonia, Scotland, Finland, Slovakia etc. They were that poor - surprisingly. Look at Scotland, yes they lost to the Czechs and Croatia, but at least they put in a competitive performance against England (but we qualified from the group, they didn't blah blah). I feel we play a large percentage of matches against either similar level or slightly better opposition completely on the back foot. Anyway I'm going to stop now on this now. Imo, we didn't perform to the best of our abilities during this tournament, if others think we did, then fair enough. |
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Post by CrackityJones on Jul 13, 2021 10:58:27 GMT
Bringing the thread back on topic.
Some good posts and with that in mind, what would be a reasonable expectation for the WC qualifiers? We already have a play off in the bag but that will mean two away games against teams like Turkey, Sweden, Denmark, potentially the Dutch, Switzerland or even the likes of Portugal. I can’t see us qualifying that way.
Finish 2nd and could get home times against less successful nations. That has to be the aim.
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Post by jimbo82 on Jul 13, 2021 11:13:55 GMT
Bringing the thread back on topic. Some good posts and with that in mind, what would be a reasonable expectation for the WC qualifiers? We already have a play off in the bag but that will mean two away games against teams like Turkey, Sweden, Denmark, potentially the Dutch, Switzerland or even the likes of Portugal. I can’t see us qualifying that way. Finish 2nd and could get home times against less successful nations. That has to be the aim. We have to go for the second place finish. The key game will be Czech Republic away. They've shown how strong they are in these Euros but with a full strength team we do have a chance against them. We also probably need to win all our other games, which given the standard of Estonia and Belarus wouldn't be impossible (but hey, this is Wales). A draw in CZ would then be enough to clinch 2nd place, assuming everyone loses to Belgium... Let's just hope that all our starting 11 are match fit by the time the qualifiers start in September, as an away trip to Belarus (or possibly Kazan?!) is a huge potential banana skin. |
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Post by TheWelshWay on Jul 14, 2021 8:51:03 GMT
Sweden were in a poor group. Hungary excelled but they were aided by playing in front of 66,000 partisan fans. Austria put in one top performance against Italy, they weren’t particularly good in the group and failed to take numerous chances against that poor Ukraine side. So all in all comparing us with others is fraught with difficulty because of mitigating circumstances and the fact that all group stage groups are not equal in terms of quality. At the end of the day we can only judge our own results by what we know to be true: one of our opponents knocked France out and got to the quarter finals, the other won the whole thing and our knockout round opponents were able to play a home game against us and took their journey in the competition into extra time against the host nation. The scoreline against Denmark is the major issue I feel. If it had been a 1-0 defeat I suspect the campaign would largely be deemed a success.Let’s be fair though in terms of what everybody thought we would achieve iirc only me and allezlesrouges and manulike seemed to have any confidence we would qualify so it seems odd for people to now say we didn’t perform well when we exceeded most expectations that we would finish bottom of the group. Yes, perhaps you're right. I mentioned before the game that I expected us to lose, and there'll be no shame in that. But to be hammered 4-0 (should have been more) was a very bitter pill to swallow, especially after the whole bullshit of having next to no fans. When was the last time we imploded like that? Strange take in my opinion - you accept that Denmark are a superior side and should have won at least 1 - 0. It was 1-0 at half time and by your own standards we would have given a good account of ourselves if the score had stayed the same. The second goal went in after a very questionable decision which clearly affected the players - after that the score didn’t really matter as the game was over. Denmark scored 2 goals in the final minutes. So basically, you are basing the success of the tournament on how we gave an account of ourselves in last 30 mins when the game was already lost, our players were dead on their feet and frustrated with a terrible ref.
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Post by allezlesrouges on Jul 14, 2021 11:20:24 GMT
Bringing the thread back on topic. Some good posts and with that in mind, what would be a reasonable expectation for the WC qualifiers? We already have a play off in the bag but that will mean two away games against teams like Turkey, Sweden, Denmark, potentially the Dutch, Switzerland or even the likes of Portugal. I can’t see us qualifying that way. Finish 2nd and could get home times against less successful nations. That has to be the aim. We have to go for the second place finish. The key game will be Czech Republic away. They've shown how strong they are in these Euros but with a full strength team we do have a chance against them. We also probably need to win all our other games, which given the standard of Estonia and Belarus wouldn't be impossible (but hey, this is Wales). A draw in CZ would then be enough to clinch 2nd place, assuming everyone loses to Belgium... Let's just hope that all our starting 11 are match fit by the time the qualifiers start in September, as an away trip to Belarus (or possibly Kazan?!) is a huge potential banana skin. We have to predicate our predictions on us beating Estonia & Belarus home & away. Not because we have a god given right to beat them, but because we have to do that if we're realistically talking about qualifying for a World Cup Assuming we do the double over them both, we've got a 2 game shootout with Belgium & Czechia. Those two play each other on the 5th of September after we've just played Belarus/Estonia If they draw with each other again we simply must go all out to beat the Czechs away - it will mean we'd enter the final game against Belgium knowing a draw would take us straight through to the world cup. If we drew to the Czechs as well we'd need to beat Belgium in the final game - not ideal but given it's a home game it will be a huge occasion & our best chance to pull off something like that If Belgium beat Czechia we'd probably have to beat both, meaning the Czechs away is do or die in the search for top spot. Obviously 2nd place is also worth going for so it may be that it's best to be solid and ensure we get at least a draw there If the Czechs beat Belgium I think that's a bad result for us because we would have to take something off Belgium to get a win from either of them to stay in the hunt for 2nd Ideal result is Czechs draw to Belgium & we beat Czechs away. Not THAT unlikely really, but we need to build some momentum after that Denmark defeat - the Czechs are similar level to them. I'd want to see a 4-3-3 against Belarus/Estonia. I really think Tyler Roberts in midfield could elevate this team |
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Post by derynglas on Jul 14, 2021 19:34:02 GMT
I suppose todays announcements from Drakeford,no restrictions on outdoor gatherings
from Saturday could mean full capacity for the home games in the autumn.
Also no self isolation needed on return from amber countries if fully vaccinated.
So nothing decided yet but looking good in terms of attending the upcoming qualifiers
home and away.
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Post by CrackityJones on Jul 14, 2021 19:50:20 GMT
Yeah it’s looking good for the home games thankfully. Still unsure if the other countries will allow us to travel and attend the games yet.
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Post by Toffeeman on Jul 15, 2021 7:01:14 GMT
Drakeford' statement included this on international travel, can't see an away game while this message remains - The advice continues to be that people should avoid all non-essential international travel and that "this is the year to holiday in the UK I suppose todays announcements from Drakeford,no restrictions on outdoor gatherings from Saturday could mean full capacity for the home games in the autumn. Also no self isolation needed on return from amber countries if fully vaccinated. So nothing decided yet but looking good in terms of attending the upcoming qualifiers home and away. |
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Post by cymro on Jul 15, 2021 7:38:26 GMT
Drakeford' statement included this on international travel, can't see an away game while this message remains - The advice continues to be that people should avoid all non-essential international travel and that "this is the year to holiday in the UK I suppose todays announcements from Drakeford,no restrictions on outdoor gatherings from Saturday could mean full capacity for the home games in the autumn. Also no self isolation needed on return from amber countries if fully vaccinated. So nothing decided yet but looking good in terms of attending the upcoming qualifiers home and away. I think that's just what they advise. Legally Wales is following suit with England's policy of no need to quarantine from an Amber country, albeit begrudgingly. It would be untenable to have a different travel policy for Wales. The main issue now is the ability to get into other countries without quarantine, the coming home element is now pretty straight forward. (Still have to get tests though). |
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Post by superunknown on Jul 15, 2021 8:25:46 GMT
Drakeford' statement included this on international travel, can't see an away game while this message remains - The advice continues to be that people should avoid all non-essential international travel and that "this is the year to holiday in the UK I think that's just what they advise. Legally Wales is following suit with England's policy of no need to quarantine from an Amber country, albeit begrudgingly. It would be untenable to have a different travel policy for Wales. The main issue now is the ability to get into other countries without quarantine, the coming home element is now pretty straight forward. (Still have to get tests though). If you’ve been double jabbed or have recovered from Covid in the last 6 months you’re allowed into Estonia with no self isolation and don’t even need a negative test before you go at the moment. Not confident with Finland and Czech Republic atm. No idea whether we’d be allowed in Belarus even without Covid going on. |
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Post by welshrover on Jul 15, 2021 11:06:44 GMT
I think that's just what they advise. Legally Wales is following suit with England's policy of no need to quarantine from an Amber country, albeit begrudgingly. It would be untenable to have a different travel policy for Wales. The main issue now is the ability to get into other countries without quarantine, the coming home element is now pretty straight forward. (Still have to get tests though). If you’ve been double jabbed or have recovered from Covid in the last 6 months you’re allowed into Estonia with no self isolation and don’t even need a negative test before you go at the moment. Not confident with Finland and Czech Republic atm. No idea whether we’d be allowed in Belarus even without Covid going on. The Lithuanians now building a barbed wire periminter along the border with Belarus. |
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Post by Toffeeman on Jul 15, 2021 12:42:44 GMT
What about FAW sourcing tickets, even if the the Welsh Goverment travel advice is classed as advisory? Drakeford' statement included this on international travel, can't see an away game while this message remains - The advice continues to be that people should avoid all non-essential international travel and that "this is the year to holiday in the UK I think that's just what they advise. Legally Wales is following suit with England's policy of no need to quarantine from an Amber country, albeit begrudgingly. It would be untenable to have a different travel policy for Wales. The main issue now is the ability to get into other countries without quarantine, the coming home element is now pretty straight forward. (Still have to get tests though). |
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Post by cymro on Jul 15, 2021 16:56:21 GMT
What about FAW sourcing tickets, even if the the Welsh Goverment travel advice is classed as advisory? I think that's just what they advise. Legally Wales is following suit with England's policy of no need to quarantine from an Amber country, albeit begrudgingly. It would be untenable to have a different travel policy for Wales. The main issue now is the ability to get into other countries without quarantine, the coming home element is now pretty straight forward. (Still have to get tests though). Yeah whether the other countries' FA's actually give us a ticket allocation will be a whole other matter in itself. |
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Post by derynglas on Jul 17, 2021 23:03:52 GMT
Interesting to note that the rest of the UK has been put on Denmarks red list apart
from Wales which means double vaxed Welsh residents can travel there for all purposes
without having to isolate.
Wondering if this sets a precedent which could lead to Czech Republic and other
countries following suit.
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Post by welshrover on Jul 18, 2021 6:20:04 GMT
Interesting to note that the rest of the UK has been put on Denmarks red list apart from Wales which means double vaxed Welsh residents can travel there for all purposes without having to isolate. Wondering if this sets a precedent which could lead to Czech Republic and other countries following suit. Would airport of departure not come into play though? How many places does Cardiff fly to. As a North Walian have always used airports in North West England so if the English are banned there probably won't be any flights anyway! |
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Post by cadno on Jul 18, 2021 7:55:39 GMT
Interesting to note that the rest of the UK has been put on Denmarks red list apart from Wales which means double vaxed Welsh residents can travel there for all purposes without having to isolate. Wondering if this sets a precedent which could lead to Czech Republic and other countries following suit. Would airport of departure not come into play though? How many places does Cardiff fly to. As a North Walian have always used airports in North West England so if the English are banned there probably won't be any flights anyway! True 🤔 is there a way of driving to these countries? Maybe if Ireland are on their tidy list we could always go via Dublin |
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Post by marsvolta on Jul 18, 2021 8:00:23 GMT
Interesting to note that the rest of the UK has been put on Denmarks red list apart from Wales which means double vaxed Welsh residents can travel there for all purposes without having to isolate. Wondering if this sets a precedent which could lead to Czech Republic and other countries following suit. Would airport of departure not come into play though? How many places does Cardiff fly to. As a North Walian have always used airports in North West England so if the English are banned there probably won't be any flights anyway! Yeah, if Cardiff doesn’t have flights to Denmark then we won’t be going anywhere haha. |
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Post by derynglas on Jul 18, 2021 8:33:43 GMT
Dont think this means you have to fly from Cardiff,although i think there may be indirect flights
from Cardiff to denmark.
Suppose you could fly from an English airport,may be some flights for Danish people and English
people who have a pressing reason to go there who have to isolate on arrival.
I imagine youd have to have proof of Welsh residency and vax status on your phone which is possible.
As for driving and trains Boris Johnson has bizzarely put a 10 day quarantine rule on people
returning from France of all places which has been widely criticised.
Eurostar have said though that people returning from Brussels via Lille wont be affected by this.
So you could take a train to Brussels and either fly or carry on by train to another destinations.
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Post by welshrover on Jul 18, 2021 10:06:32 GMT
I drove Czech Republic when we played in Teplice. Piece of cake back in the day, no covid, still in EU. Now it looks a nightmare 😟
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Post by cynonvalley on Jul 22, 2021 20:04:11 GMT
Home tickets on sale soon?
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Post by CrackityJones on Jul 23, 2021 8:01:11 GMT
It’s all gone very quiet. I’m assuming the FAW are waiting for confirmation of capacity before the September game goes on sale.
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Post by nathan0881 on Jul 23, 2021 11:17:49 GMT
Hi
Does anyone have any insight to when the FAW will be selling tickets for the home games for the World Cup qualifying games ? Will they be offering the season / campaign tickets ?
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Post by fiveattheback on Jul 24, 2021 22:08:15 GMT
It'll be announced fairly soon whether Wales are getting rid of most restrictions so I'd guess the FAW are waiting until then?
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Post by derynglas on Jul 25, 2021 7:52:06 GMT
All restrictions on outdoor events have been lifted.
Apart from track and trace,which has always been done anyway really for our games.
And clubs,(and the FAW) have to carry out a risk assesment on how they
can minimise the spread of covid.
They can have full capacity,if they want it.
This just means the FAW havent finalised the details of how they are going to go about this
in terms of pricing,tournament tickets and all the other safety issues with covid.
People could ring the FAW but theyll probably just say all will be revealed
as soon as details are finalised.
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Post by cynonvalley on Jul 30, 2021 16:17:40 GMT
Will play Belarus in Kazan, Russia. Behind closed doors.
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