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Post by eppingblue on Nov 9, 2016 10:00:01 GMT
James Collins pulls out of the Wales squad. Anyone else expecting a speedy recovery so that he will be fit to play in the Premier League next weekend? The thought has crossed my mind but I'll give him benefit of the doubt. Did you give Joe the benefit of the doubt and what did you think when he did have an expected recovery and played the following match for Stoke. I don't know if Joe would have made a difference against Georgia although to be honest he surely would have. I do know that our chances of Wales qualifying for the world cup were dealt a serious, possibly mortal blow. |
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Post by joio on Nov 9, 2016 10:25:04 GMT
The thought has crossed my mind but I'll give him benefit of the doubt. Did you give Joe the benefit of the doubt and what did you think when he did have an expected recovery and played the following match for Stoke. I don't know if Joe would have made a difference against Georgia although to be honest he surely would have. I do know that our chances of Wales qualifying for the world cup were dealt a serious, possibly mortal blow. Joe Allen played for Wales and then went off injured. On the Sunday before the last international break Stoke had a game and Hughes had said on the Friday that Allen was a doubt for them. In the end he ended up playing in that match and then went away with Wales. He clearly had a niggle so he could have easily pulled out of the Welsh squad if he'd wanted to. I don't think there's anything in the fact that Collins has pulled out but you can understand why some people would question it. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 9, 2016 10:50:59 GMT
The thought has crossed my mind but I'll give him benefit of the doubt. Did you give Joe the benefit of the doubt and what did you think when he did have an expected recovery and played the following match for Stoke. I don't know if Joe would have made a difference against Georgia although to be honest he surely would have. I do know that our chances of Wales qualifying for the world cup were dealt a serious, possibly mortal blow. Bit of a difference in Joe was known to be not in the best of health anyway yet contributed in the Austria game. I am one of Collins biggest critics but would be surprised if there is any smoke and mirrors going on here, there has never been a better era to be a Wales player and Collins risks losing out on appearing at world cup if he starts playing silly beggars now. I believe the system at international level is more robust these days and he would have had to have been signed off by our own medical team. The timing of the announcement suggests he would have joined up with the squad before being signed off. |
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Post by jamesc87 on Nov 9, 2016 11:27:31 GMT
The thought has crossed my mind but I'll give him benefit of the doubt. Did you give Joe the benefit of the doubt and what did you think when he did have an expected recovery and played the following match for Stoke. I don't know if Joe would have made a difference against Georgia although to be honest he surely would have. I do know that our chances of Wales qualifying for the world cup were dealt a serious, possibly mortal blow. I give all players the benefit of the doubt but as others have said Joe was with the squad and therefore he had no other reason not to play other than injury or some sort of agreement between coleman and Hughes. I believe Collins has previous in pulling out of squads injured, only to play for club the week after. Happy to be corrected |
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Post by gwernybwch on Nov 20, 2016 7:53:19 GMT
James Collins pulls out of the Wales squad. Anyone else expecting a speedy recovery so that he will be fit to play in the Premier League next weekend? Did you make the same content about Joe Allen ? If not why not ? I see that James Collins did recover enough from his Grade A muscle injury to be on the bench for West Ham on Saturday.
BTH, the reason that I made the post was a bit of a fishing trip. As others have posted, Collins has a reputation - rightly or wrongly - for pulling out of Wales squads and then being fit for his club. I was expecting to hear something along the lines of another bust-up with Coleman after being told that Drumment was starting ahead of him in a back five or not being first choice in a back four.
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Post by manulike on Dec 26, 2016 13:43:27 GMT
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Post by CymruFach on Apr 10, 2017 8:58:02 GMT
Played out of his skin for WHU v Swans on Saturday . Wouldn't let anything past and was Man of theMatch for WHU fans,
how owe about a back three of Collins, Williams and Chester with wingbacks Ben Davies and Gunter?
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Post by evans1282 on Apr 10, 2017 9:28:35 GMT
Have slagged off James Collins in the past ,but think our back 3 works because Ashley is effectively the"central defender" with two guys either side comfortable out wide in the fullback position.I think Collins would be the obvious replacement if Ashley is injured but not alongside him.
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Post by alarch on Apr 10, 2017 10:45:19 GMT
Swansea played into Collins' hands. If there is one thing Collins is very good at, it's high balls into the box. That's not to say he can't do a job for us - but for me you either put him alongside Williams in a 4 at the back, or as evans1282 says, put him instead of Williams (as if he'd be injured...). If you try and accommodate Collins into a back three it makes for a disfunctional unit. Both Collins and Williams can only really play effectively in the centre of a back three, and given a choice Williams gets the nod every time.
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Post by zenith on Apr 10, 2017 10:53:20 GMT
Have slagged off James Collins in the past ,but think our back 3 works because Ashley is effectively the"central defender" with two guys either side comfortable out wide in the fullback position.I think Collins would be the obvious replacement if Ashley is injured but not alongside him. agree with this |
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Post by CymruFach on Apr 10, 2017 12:50:49 GMT
Have slagged off James Collins in the past ,but think our back 3 works because Ashley is effectively the"central defender" with two guys either side comfortable out wide in the fullback position.I think Collins would be the obvious replacement if Ashley is injured but not alongside him. Problem is Neil Taylor is out, and we need Ben Davies as a wingback. We either go 4 at the back but need 5 surely away with wingbacks. |
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Post by phillywelsh83 on Apr 10, 2017 13:27:01 GMT
Id prefer bring in Paul Dummett, he could fit into our system better if we stick to 5 at the back.
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Post by zenith on Apr 10, 2017 13:36:51 GMT
Id prefer bring in Paul Dummett, he could fit into our system better if we stick to 5 at the back. If he doesn't get on at some point he'll be re-thinking about turning up in future |
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Post by phillywelsh83 on Apr 10, 2017 13:57:46 GMT
Id prefer bring in Paul Dummett, he could fit into our system better if we stick to 5 at the back. If he doesn't get on at some point he'll be re-thinking about turning up in future Yeah i agree, he just isn't fancied by Coleman |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 10, 2017 14:05:01 GMT
Collins against a rapid technical youthful Serbian attack?
I really think we should change our formation for this game - we have become too predictable - unless the management are playing for a draw again.
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Post by phillywelsh83 on Apr 10, 2017 14:12:05 GMT
Im still a little resistant to change the formation, i dont think we are strong enough defensively to do that. 5 at the back gives us solidity and allows the wing backs to get forward. I just think we need to be a little more positive using the same formation. Maybe change the system up slightly. I dont think we are million miles off, just need to be a little more positive.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 10, 2017 14:58:02 GMT
Im still a little resistant to change the formation, i dont think we are strong enough defensively to do that. 5 at the back gives us solidity and allows the wing backs to get forward. I just think we need to be a little more positive using the same formation. Maybe change the system up slightly. I dont think we are million miles off, just need to be a little more positive. The wing backs getting forward is exactly the problem- our formation and tactics rely a lot on them yet neither of them are any bloody good! It strikes me as yet more Coleman faith and loyalty in players who aren't up to what is being asked of them. We may actually turn out to be fortunate in that Coleman's hands are now tied in the case of Taylor. Davies is the sort of wing back we need as he can actually put in a dangerous ball. However on the other side it will be the same old story- Ramsey pinging balls out to Gunter with nothing coming of it. So for me Davies as a wing back makes me think that the wing back approach might just deserve one final day out, but given the negative mindset against Ireland and the admittance by the management team that we are already relying on other results to go our way I can't help but think we are due for more of the same against Serbia when we need a real shake up. |
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Post by iot on Apr 10, 2017 20:49:13 GMT
It's slightly lazy thinking to say we need to change formation as we've become too predictable - remember that we effectively played a 442 in the game before last with HRK and Vokes up front. Against Serbia especially, we should play 5 at the back as they'll come on to us and it's a better formation to play on the counter.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 10, 2017 21:09:21 GMT
It's slightly lazy thinking to say we need to change formation as we've become to predictable - remember that we effectively played a 442 in the game before last with HRK and Vokes up front. Against Serbia especially, we should play 5 at the back as they'll come on to us and it's a better formation to play on the counter. Yeah....I can be lazy. But in Dublin it was blindingly fucking obvious there was nothing coming from the left but he left Taylor on and we all know what happened next. We need to do something unexpected and not some minor tweak. |
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Post by iot on Apr 10, 2017 21:50:35 GMT
It's slightly lazy thinking to say we need to change formation as we've become to predictable - remember that we effectively played a 442 in the game before last with HRK and Vokes up front. Against Serbia especially, we should play 5 at the back as they'll come on to us and it's a better formation to play on the counter. Yeah....I can be lazy. But in Dublin it was blindingly fucking obvious there was nothing coming from the left but he left Taylor on and we all know what happened next. We need to do something unexpected and not some minor tweak. Agree that failure to adapt during games has been an issue and that's nothing new. It was obvious from the first few minutes against Israel at home in the last campaign that they weren't interested in scoring, yet we didn't do anything about it. Same was true against Ireland where they were far more conservative than I expected, and again we should have made more radical changes. However, not sure how you can describe changing to a 442 at home against Serbia as a 'minor tweak'. The coaching staff do change things around quite radically from game to game when they think it necessary, but don't seem able to do it during games for some reason. |
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Post by ae15 on Apr 11, 2017 9:25:16 GMT
If he doesn't get on at some point he'll be re-thinking about turning up in future Yeah i agree, he just isn't fancied by Coleman I'm not sure I completely agree with this. He hasn't had a lot of opportunities, but he was meant to be playing in the Belgium home game until he got injured and we had to play Richards at RWB and Gunter at RCB instead. |
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Post by phillywelsh83 on Apr 11, 2017 10:34:27 GMT
Yeah i agree, he just isn't fancied by Coleman I'm not sure I completely agree with this. He hasn't had a lot of opportunities, but he was meant to be playing in the Belgium home game until he got injured and we had to play Richards at RWB and Gunter at RCB instead. Well the lack of friendlies surely hasn't helped the situation. |
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Post by evans1282 on Apr 11, 2017 20:09:44 GMT
Jazz Richards replacing Taylor for me,has played left back and is good going forward.I'm not digging anyone out in particular but a lot of this we have become predictable, we need to take the next step kind of chat always reminds me of the shit Charlton fans used to give Curbishley when he consistently kept them mid table in the premiership,and where are they now,just be careful what you wish for.Two (well three if you include Bale)things helped us develop, consistent team selection, and not playing friendlies giving us a higher ranking,both of which many posters want to ditch,I just cannot see the logic in this.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 11, 2017 21:55:48 GMT
Jazz Richards replacing Taylor for me,has played left back and is good going forward.I'm not digging anyone out in particular but a lot of this we have become predictable, we need to take the next step kind of chat always reminds me of the shit Charlton fans used to give Curbishley when he consistently kept them mid table in the premiership,and where are they now,just be careful what you wish for.Two (well three if you include Bale)things helped us develop, consistent team selection, and not playing friendlies giving us a higher ranking,both of which many posters want to ditch,I just cannot see the logic in this. With respect that is an awful comparison based on a team that was punching above it's weight. Are we punching above our weight by drawing 4 games in a row including against the bottom seed? Given the players that we have we could really hardly have done worse so far in this campaign. Certainly, finding ourselves needing at the very minimum a draw to stay in contention at around the half way point is a very sorry state of affairs that I doubt anyone predicted, especially for a campaign where we were the top seed! So the calls for change come from having seen us take the same approach for most of the campaign with the result that we are on the verge of going out. It is shit or bust now so we might as well go out with a bang because if we carry on like we did against ROI we are meekly surrendering our chances of qualification and all at a time when we have the likes of Allen, Ramsey and Bale arguably in their prime. |
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Post by iot on Apr 12, 2017 11:42:43 GMT
Jazz Richards replacing Taylor for me,has played left back and is good going forward.I'm not digging anyone out in particular but a lot of this we have become predictable, we need to take the next step kind of chat always reminds me of the shit Charlton fans used to give Curbishley when he consistently kept them mid table in the premiership,and where are they now,just be careful what you wish for.Two (well three if you include Bale)things helped us develop, consistent team selection, and not playing friendlies giving us a higher ranking,both of which many posters want to ditch,I just cannot see the logic in this. With respect that is an awful comparison based on a team that was punching above it's weight. Are we punching above our weight by drawing 4 games in a row including against the bottom seed? Given the players that we have we could really hardly have done worse so far in this campaign. Certainly, finding ourselves needing at the very minimum a draw to stay in contention at around the half way point is a very sorry state of affairs that I doubt anyone predicted, especially for a campaign where we were the top seed! So the calls for change come from having seen us take the same approach for most of the campaign with the result that we are on the verge of going out. It is shit or bust now so we might as well go out with a bang because if we carry on like we did against ROI we are meekly surrendering our chances of qualification and all at a time when we have the likes of Allen, Ramsey and Bale arguably in their prime. You're always going to be disappointed Storm because, IMO, you think we're better than what we actually are. Therefore, when we don't reach those expectations, it must be someone's fault - the system, omitting Bradshaw, Watkins and Dummett etc. In reality, we're at a very similar level to Austria, Serbia and Ireland. I'd go as far to say on paper, we're slightly weaker than the first two and only slightly better than Ireland. The harsh truth is, we have one world class player; another who interchanges between long spells of world class displays and very mediocre displays; and another two very good PL players. Apart from those four, the rest of the players are upper championship/lower prem level. With seven out of 11 players at that sort of level, why do you believe we should steamroll past these teams? So, in that context, the only game where we've really underperformed and not reached the levels I would expect is against Georgia (where we had Allen and Ramsey missing). I'm not trying to be negative, but people need to appreciate that the Euros were a one-off and it's extremely unlikely that we'll reach those levels as we did repeatedly in the Summer. I'm not saying we shouldn't expect to challenge for WC qualification, because we're more than good enough for that, but with three other similar quality teams, it was always going to be difficult. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 12, 2017 13:21:51 GMT
With respect that is an awful comparison based on a team that was punching above it's weight. Are we punching above our weight by drawing 4 games in a row including against the bottom seed? Given the players that we have we could really hardly have done worse so far in this campaign. Certainly, finding ourselves needing at the very minimum a draw to stay in contention at around the half way point is a very sorry state of affairs that I doubt anyone predicted, especially for a campaign where we were the top seed! So the calls for change come from having seen us take the same approach for most of the campaign with the result that we are on the verge of going out. It is shit or bust now so we might as well go out with a bang because if we carry on like we did against ROI we are meekly surrendering our chances of qualification and all at a time when we have the likes of Allen, Ramsey and Bale arguably in their prime. You're always going to be disappointed Storm because, IMO, you think we're better than what we actually are. Therefore, when we don't reach those expectations, it must be someone's fault - the system, omitting Bradshaw, Watkins and Dummett etc. In reality, we're at a very similar level to Austria, Serbia and Ireland. I'd go as far to say on paper, we're slightly weaker than the first two and only slightly better than Ireland. The harsh truth is, we have one world class player; another who interchanges between long spells of world class displays and very mediocre displays; and another two very good PL players. Apart from those four, the rest of the players are upper championship/lower prem level. With seven out of 11 players at that sort of level, why do you believe we should steamroll past these teams? So, in that context, the only game where we've really underperformed and not reached the levels I would expect is against Georgia (where we had Allen and Ramsey missing). I'm not trying to be negative, but people need to appreciate that the Euros were a one-off and it's extremely unlikely that we'll reach those levels as we did repeatedly in the Summer. I'm not saying we shouldn't expect to challenge for WC qualification, because we're more than good enough for that, but with three other similar quality teams, it was always going to be difficult. We got to the semi finals of the Euros whilst one of our group rivals tanked at the group stage, I would think anyone would be rightfully disappointed at how we have done since. I accept the mitigating factor of playing a number of games in quick succession helped us hit a certain level of form that we hadn't seen from this team before and since (and that Ramsey is very rarely on form in a Wales shirt) but we should still be at least two points if not more better off in this campaign and the fact that we aren't is down to us more so than it is the standard of the opposition. Let us not forget that we haven't actually been behind in a game yet, so we have squandered the lead in 3 of those games. Not good enough. I am not saying we are world beaters but we should have done better against serbia, ireland and georgia, they were all very much winnable games and ireland and georgia were clearly inferior opposition on the day yet we let our attitude to the game dictate the result rather than anything they did. I would love to see what a manager like Conte could have done with us in this campaign as we have the players to be doing better. I worry that there is a general malaise creeping over the whole setup after playing pretty much the same players and same formation ad nauseum and drawing 4 games on the spin. They looked lethargic against Ireland and I can empathise because I was bored to tears watching it. |
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Post by zenith on Apr 12, 2017 13:30:03 GMT
You're always going to be disappointed Storm because, IMO, you think we're better than what we actually are. Therefore, when we don't reach those expectations, it must be someone's fault - the system, omitting Bradshaw, Watkins and Dummett etc. In reality, we're at a very similar level to Austria, Serbia and Ireland. I'd go as far to say on paper, we're slightly weaker than the first two and only slightly better than Ireland. The harsh truth is, we have one world class player; another who interchanges between long spells of world class displays and very mediocre displays; and another two very good PL players. Apart from those four, the rest of the players are upper championship/lower prem level. With seven out of 11 players at that sort of level, why do you believe we should steamroll past these teams? So, in that context, the only game where we've really underperformed and not reached the levels I would expect is against Georgia (where we had Allen and Ramsey missing). I'm not trying to be negative, but people need to appreciate that the Euros were a one-off and it's extremely unlikely that we'll reach those levels as we did repeatedly in the Summer. I'm not saying we shouldn't expect to challenge for WC qualification, because we're more than good enough for that, but with three other similar quality teams, it was always going to be difficult. We got to the semi finals of the Euros whilst one of our group rivals tanked at the group stage, I would think anyone would be rightfully disappointed at how we have done since. I accept the mitigating factor of playing a number of games in quick succession helped us hit a certain level of form that we hadn't seen from this team before and since (and that Ramsey is very rarely on form in a Wales shirt) but we should still be at least two points if not more better off in this campaign and the fact that we aren't is down to us more so than it is the standard of the opposition. Let us not forget that we haven't actually been behind in a game yet, so we have squandered the lead in 3 of those games. Not good enough. I am not saying we are world beaters but we should have done better against serbia, ireland and georgia, they were all very much winnable games and ireland and georgia were clearly inferior opposition on the day yet we let our attitude to the game dictate the result rather than anything they did. I would love to see what a manager like Conte could have done with us in this campaign as we have the players to be doing better. I worry that there is a general malaise creeping over the whole setup after playing pretty much the same players and same formation ad nauseum and drawing 4 games on the spin. They looked lethargic against Ireland and I can empathise because I was bored to tears watching it. Almost every other team in the Premier League are now playing 3-5-2 (or a variation of it) - even Barcelona have adopted it too. When we started playing it, it would have been a lot harder to research for teams as no team that I know of had been playing with two no. 10s along with wingbacks - Occasionally Italy on the national circuit. Whilst we were using that system, at the time a lot of teams were playing a 4-2-3-1 which has now become a little stale. We need a new system, even if it meant going to a 4-2-2-2 or something a little bit different we could experiment with. However, this is what friendlies are for and for some reason our camp hates friendly games. |
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Post by iot on Apr 12, 2017 14:32:56 GMT
You're always going to be disappointed Storm because, IMO, you think we're better than what we actually are. Therefore, when we don't reach those expectations, it must be someone's fault - the system, omitting Bradshaw, Watkins and Dummett etc. In reality, we're at a very similar level to Austria, Serbia and Ireland. I'd go as far to say on paper, we're slightly weaker than the first two and only slightly better than Ireland. The harsh truth is, we have one world class player; another who interchanges between long spells of world class displays and very mediocre displays; and another two very good PL players. Apart from those four, the rest of the players are upper championship/lower prem level. With seven out of 11 players at that sort of level, why do you believe we should steamroll past these teams? So, in that context, the only game where we've really underperformed and not reached the levels I would expect is against Georgia (where we had Allen and Ramsey missing). I'm not trying to be negative, but people need to appreciate that the Euros were a one-off and it's extremely unlikely that we'll reach those levels as we did repeatedly in the Summer. I'm not saying we shouldn't expect to challenge for WC qualification, because we're more than good enough for that, but with three other similar quality teams, it was always going to be difficult. We got to the semi finals of the Euros whilst one of our group rivals tanked at the group stage, I would think anyone would be rightfully disappointed at how we have done since. I accept the mitigating factor of playing a number of games in quick succession helped us hit a certain level of form that we hadn't seen from this team before and since (and that Ramsey is very rarely on form in a Wales shirt) but we should still be at least two points if not more better off in this campaign and the fact that we aren't is down to us more so than it is the standard of the opposition. Let us not forget that we haven't actually been behind in a game yet, so we have squandered the lead in 3 of those games. Not good enough. I am not saying we are world beaters but we should have done better against serbia, ireland and georgia, they were all very much winnable games and ireland and georgia were clearly inferior opposition on the day yet we let our attitude to the game dictate the result rather than anything they did. I would love to see what a manager like Conte could have done with us in this campaign as we have the players to be doing better. I worry that there is a general malaise creeping over the whole setup after playing pretty much the same players and same formation ad nauseum and drawing 4 games on the spin. They looked lethargic against Ireland and I can empathise because I was bored to tears watching it. Agreed we should have two more points, which we would have had we beaten Georgia. That was a really weird game where I expected it to be really tight and scrape a 1-0 near the end. Instead, we started on fire and scored really early, then decided not to look for the second goal and play keep ball until they scored - we panicked, chased the game and were lucky not to lose in the end. Against Serbia, we played well and deserved to win, but they scored a sucker punch right at the end and that happens. Conversely, we probably deserved to lose against Austria but came away with a creditable draw. I wasn't as disappointed as others after the Ireland game because they're masters at shutting out teams, they're aren't many better at doing it. I'm sure Conte would get even more from this group than Coleman as would a dozen other top class managers, but I'm not sure if they'd be happy with earning a hundredth of what they currently do! |
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Post by zenith on May 26, 2017 7:41:03 GMT
Id prefer bring in Paul Dummett, he could fit into our system better if we stick to 5 at the back. If he doesn't get on at some point he'll be re-thinking about turning up in future Unfortunately come true |
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Post by CrackityJones on May 26, 2017 7:58:46 GMT
Back on the topic of Collins, Coleman stated he isn't 100% but may be called upon if we have any drop outs.
If that's the case, it still seems a little odd not inviting him to the camp. His presence alone would be of value considering the lack of experience amongst the defensive options.
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