Andy King

[alarch]

Aug 28, 2019 12:14:26 GMT allezlesrouges said:

Aug 28, 2019 11:46:06 GMT georgetm1 said:

Giggs needs to keep players on side, especially the experienced ones. If I was King I would be well pissed off at having my place taken by a kid who has never played senior football. Giggs is a fucking liability and is wrecking all the goodwill our national team has had with its players. No offence to Levitt, but wtf? What is he going to bring to the squad over King?

It just seems to me Giggs doesn't have a fucking clue how to run a national team. There seems to be a huge lack of empathy and forethought coming from the guy and his family history shows us that. If we don't qualify, he needs to go before he causes more damage. We are going backwards under him.

First thing is I agree on King over Levitt. Some experience in the squad would definitely be beneficial to balancing out the squad.

I am going to somewhat defend Giggs though (a heinous crime on here I know). Even if we don't qualify and Giggs leaves, I don't think we're going backwards as a nation under him as a lot of people claim. In fact I think the experience/caps he's given to the younger players is going to massively benefit us as a footballing nation in the long run. Even if this means inconsistent results in the present.

We've got to think long term if we are ever going to come close to repeating Euro 2016. Bale, Ramsey, Williams, Ledley, Allen all came through periods of poor results with Wales. And this stood them in good stead to achieve great things. I hope we look back in 10 years and can say Ampadu, James, Brooks, Mepham, Wilson, Roberts etc.. all benefitted from losses to Hungary, Albania, Croatia.

The long and the short of it is I don't think we'll ever go back to the dark days. I don't think 1 poor manager can cause that based on the infrastructure we now have.

A sensible post - but it gives a plausible sounding excuse for a reckless approach adopted by Giggs. Why sacrifice short-term success needlessly on the altar of long-term progress? When Toshack threw in the youngsters it was a matter of necessity. Giggs doesn't have that excuse. I'm all in favour of bringing in youngsters - as long as the approach adopted is a balanced one. Dropping Williams needlessly for Lawrence may already have played a big part in us failing to qualify. There's nothing in Giggs' latest squad selection to suggest he's learned anything from his mistakes.

[cadno]

ffs

[allezlesrouges]

Aug 28, 2019 13:44:05 GMT alarch said:

Aug 28, 2019 12:14:26 GMT allezlesrouges said:

First thing is I agree on King over Levitt. Some experience in the squad would definitely be beneficial to balancing out the squad.

I am going to somewhat defend Giggs though (a heinous crime on here I know). Even if we don't qualify and Giggs leaves, I don't think we're going backwards as a nation under him as a lot of people claim. In fact I think the experience/caps he's given to the younger players is going to massively benefit us as a footballing nation in the long run. Even if this means inconsistent results in the present.

We've got to think long term if we are ever going to come close to repeating Euro 2016. Bale, Ramsey, Williams, Ledley, Allen all came through periods of poor results with Wales. And this stood them in good stead to achieve great things. I hope we look back in 10 years and can say Ampadu, James, Brooks, Mepham, Wilson, Roberts etc.. all benefitted from losses to Hungary, Albania, Croatia.

The long and the short of it is I don't think we'll ever go back to the dark days. I don't think 1 poor manager can cause that based on the infrastructure we now have.

A sensible post - but it gives a plausible sounding excuse for a reckless approach adopted by Giggs. Why sacrifice short-term success needlessly on the altar of long-term progress? When Toshack threw in the youngsters it was a matter of necessity. Giggs doesn't have that excuse. I'm all in favour of bringing in youngsters - as long as the approach adopted is a balanced one. Dropping Williams needlessly for Lawrence may already have played a big part in us failing to qualify. There's nothing in Giggs' latest squad selection to suggest he's learned anything from his mistakes.

Agree a more balanced approach may have given us a bit more consistency/stability.

[holmesdaleultra]

Just a thought.

What if Andy King himself declined the call up, hasn't he just moved to another club.
This is possible right.

Anything to have a go at our Ryan it seems.

[georgetm1]

Aug 28, 2019 22:36:34 GMT holmesdaleultra said:

Just a thought.

What if Andy King himself declined the call up, hasn't he just moved to another club.
This is possible right.

Anything to have a go at our Ryan it seems.

Wouldn't Giggs have mentioned it then?

[cadno]

He hasn't been able to break into the Rangers midfield yet. Steven Davis and Ryan Jack are very good, but King will be disappointed not to have had more game time.

Rangers have 2 games before the international break, hopefully King can get more minutes under his belt.

I expect people to bash him again, but to be honest King who has 50+ caps is a good option to have.

Ampadu hasn't played any football yet either so it might be unrealistic to expext him to play 180 minutes within a few days. We might need King to come on at some point against Slovakia and/or Croatia.

[cymroircarn]

With Ramsey fit I doubt King will even make the squad sorry

[iot]

ramsey>allen>joniesta/ampadu>smith/morrell>me>king

[cadno]

smith and morrell in the squad over a guy woth 50+ caps, premier league experience!

ok then!

[cymroircarn]

Oct 1, 2019 9:05:04 GMT cadno said:

smith and morrell in the squad over a guy woth 50+ caps, premier league experience!

ok then!

Both have played more than King this season and were in the previous squad.

If fit, Ramsey, Allen, Ampadu are bankers for the squad.

On current form so is J Williams. Morrell impressed last game and Smith has played well previously.

Ramsey is now fit so would expect 1 to drop out from last squad. Why do you think King should also be included if he is not playing and instead of who?

[cadno]

Oct 1, 2019 9:40:14 GMT cymroircarn said:

Oct 1, 2019 9:05:04 GMT cadno said:

smith and morrell in the squad over a guy woth 50+ caps, premier league experience!

ok then!

Both have played more than King this season and were in the previous squad.

If fit, Ramsey, Allen, Ampadu are bankers for the squad.

On current form so is J Williams. Morrell impressed last game and Smith has played well previously.

Ramsey is now fit so would expect 1 to drop out from last squad. Why do you think King should also be included if he is not playing and instead of who?

Because we've missed King in this campaign, Joe Allen has had to work harder than he should because of the inexperience of Smith/Ampadu IMO. King has proven his worth, he steadies the ship and helps protect the back 4, ala Joe Ledley.

I would have him in ahead of Morrell and Vaulks, Evans and possibly Smith, who hasn't had the best start for QPR I believe?

50+ caps, prem and championship experience, good on the ball, disciplined, good positioning, very useful to come on as I highly doubt that Ampadu will be able to play 180 minutes within a few days.

He may not be Modric but he's been so important to us, and at 30 years of age he has plenty still to offer. Ridiculous and daft to totally dismiss him imo.

[cymroircarn]

The challenge you have though is Giggs won’t pick players who are not playing (his words)

King has been in previous squads but in Giggs view is way down the pecking order now.

Even though he has stepped down a level (or two) he still is not playing first team football.

Until then I can’t see him being in a squad unless there is a large list of injuries

[dai]

Does Giggs even remember Andy King?

All jokes aside, I don't understand why Giggs is picking rookie's instead of a seasoned and well established member of the squad.

[cadno]

King has played 1st team football, but not much. Probably about the same amount of game time as Vaulks for example.

It's common sense for Giggs to make an excpetion to his 'needs to be playing' rule here.

[cymroircarn]

Oct 1, 2019 11:43:34 GMT cadno said:

King has played 1st team football, but not much. Probably about the same amount of game time as Vaulks for example.

It's common sense for Giggs to make an excpetion to his 'needs to be playing' rule here.

I would expect Vaulks to drop out of the extended squad for Ramsey. Vaulks was not in the squad for Azerbaijan anyway. Smith then would probably make way in the match day squad.

The case for King would therefore be him or Morrell.

On past history I think Giggs will go with Morrell.

[impeachabull]

Oct 1, 2019 11:43:34 GMT cadno said:

King has played 1st team football, but not much. Probably about the same amount of game time as Vaulks for example.

It's common sense for Giggs to make an excpetion to his 'needs to be playing' rule here.   

King has played 21 minutes in the league for Rangers. Can't really blame Giggs for not calling him up, he wouldn't get near the team if he did.

[dai]

Oct 1, 2019 11:53:13 GMT impeachabull said:

Oct 1, 2019 11:43:34 GMT cadno said:

King has played 1st team football, but not much. Probably about the same amount of game time as Vaulks for example.

It's common sense for Giggs to make an excpetion to his 'needs to be playing' rule here.   

King has played 21 minutes in the league for Rangers. Can't really blame Giggs for not calling him up, he wouldn't get near the team if he did.

Vaulks has only had a few mins, and Ampadu hasn't played a single minute, so not logic behind that argument.

[impeachabull]

Oct 1, 2019 11:57:13 GMT dai said:

Oct 1, 2019 11:53:13 GMT impeachabull said:

King has played 21 minutes in the league for Rangers. Can't really blame Giggs for not calling him up, he wouldn't get near the team if he did.

Vaulks has only had a few mins, and Ampadu hasn't played a single minute, so not logic behind that argument.

I doubt Vaulks will make the squad. In Ampadu's defence he's competing in a Leipzig squad which is hugely superior to Rangers. It's night and day. 

If King was getting regular football maybe you could make an argument for picking him over Ampadu. But as neither of them are playing, I'd go for Ampadu every time. He's a much better footballer. 

[erasedcitizen]

Oct 1, 2019 11:46:21 GMT cymroircarn said:

Oct 1, 2019 11:43:34 GMT cadno said:

King has played 1st team football, but not much. Probably about the same amount of game time as Vaulks for example.

It's common sense for Giggs to make an excpetion to his 'needs to be playing' rule here.

I would expect Vaulks to drop out of the extended squad for Ramsey. Vaulks was not in the squad for Azerbaijan anyway. Smith then would probably make way in the match day squad.

The case for King would therefore be him or Morrell.

On past history I think Giggs will go with Morrell.

Indeed. I think Morrell is the right choice as well. I don't think there's a world of difference between the team Morrell is starting in and the team King is struggling to get minutes for either and Morrell is at the right side of his career in comparison. King only gets in the squad if (heaven forbid) we pick up a few injuries and even then Lee Evans stakes a bigger claim at this moment in time.

[johnoster]

It's a shame for Andy King because he's a good guy and has always done a job for us.

But we do have more talented young players, and players who are playing more regularly, that we want to bring through.

[cadno]

haha

[fiveattheback]

Oct 1, 2019 11:09:39 GMT dai said:

Does Giggs even remember Andy King?

All jokes aside, I don't understand why Giggs is picking rookie's instead of a seasoned and well established member of the squad.

It feels like its more important to him to pick a "Giggs squad" rather than players linked with previous successes

[cymroircarn]

A few Andy King match worn shirts on eBay. He must be having a clear out!

[dai]

Should be picked ahead of Vaulks, Morrell or Ampadu. 50+ capped player dropped for one of three rookies, two of which aren't even playing seems illogical to me.

[allezlesrouges]

I can see the argument for picking him over Vaulks or maybe even Smith. Don’t agree about Morrell or Ampadu though.

[cadno]

Agree he should be in the squad, ahead of Vaulks for sure.

[impeachabull]

Huh, I'm still not convinced. He's not really playing football either. He's played 21 minutes of league football for a team who are - at best - a mid-table League 1 side. He can't even get in their League Cup side against the likes of East Fife.

Him or Vaulks seems the only argument for me. But I think it's fair enough that Giggs has included a player who has been involved in recent qualifiers and who has played more minutes for a better team.

[welshiron]

Ahead of Vaulks for sure.

How he is in the squad is beyond me

[cymroircarn]

With Allen and Jonny out of the next game could a recall be on the cards?

[CrackityJones]

Not playing much either is he?