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Post by llannerch on Sept 14, 2012 9:01:13 GMT
As for the subs he made god only knows what he was thinking I actually think Coleman's substitutions were spot on in each game in terms of the personnel. I'd have made them sooner in the Belguim game personally and moved Bale more centrally, but otehr than that. To be fair to him he probably wanted to substitute all 11 at half time in the Serbia game |
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Post by cymruunedig on Sept 14, 2012 10:05:08 GMT
A few days on and I'm still feeling angry, frustrated, betrayed, humiliated, embarrassed and disillusioned. Shame the game spoilt what was otherwise a very enjoyable trip (how many times has that been said?). No matter where you stand, Coleman will be around for next month's games, and as supporters we need to get behind the team for the Scotland game. In one of our darkest hours we need a full house with plenty of Welsh passion and hwyl on 12 October, otherwise the Tartan Army will outnumber us and possibly outplay us in Cardiff. I come over from Belgium for our home games and it sickens me that people in Cardiff and the surounding areas can't make the short journey to Cardiff City Stadium to support the team. I only hope that will change next month, but after Tuesday's pathetic performance, who knows how many Welsh fans will turn up. Do the Welsh players receive fees for international games? Those that played on Tuesday should be too embarrassed to receive their fee, reimbursing supporters tickets or providing them to Gol charity would be an appropriate gesture in my view. I'm struggling to work out how the same set of players can go from a fantastic winning run (and an excellent performance in Wembley) in autumn 2011 to such a shocking, soulless, passionless, insipid, lacklustre performance on Tuesday. Chris Coleman might or might not be the right man, but who could inspire these players and install the same amount of respect as Speed did? Perhaps we've been guilty of hyping up these players too much, perhaps we've asked for too much, perhaps we should lower expectations. I attach more blame on the players than Coleman for the Novi Sad disaster and I'm already dreading the visit to Osijek next month (if I could get my money back for the flights I would most probably cancel my trip, something I've never contemplated before in 9 years of watching Wales away). I sincerely hope the players are aware of how much effort the supporters put into following the team, in terms of cost and time. Not one player could honestly have said they played with fire, passion and 100% dedication for the shirt on Tuesday night. Redemption, for Coleman and the players, must begin with Scotland in Cardiff next month... Rant over, diolch  |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 14, 2012 12:54:48 GMT
This has been partly mentioned in a number of different threads.
If he has he is obviously finished.
As to Storm's question as to why have the players come out and supported Coleman if they have no confidence in him then I'm soryy but what on earth do you expect them to say? 'No he's fucking rubbish and I don't want to play for him anymore?'
I notice Coleman is planning talks with Craig Bellamy. It's obvious Bellamy does not want to play for Coleman. Malky Mackay has just said Bellamy's performance in training recently has been 'immense' but he didn't show up in Serbia and is due to return against Leeds this weekend.
He will have pissed Ramsey off with the Shawcross approach.
The Vaughan shoulder shrug to Allen indicates a complete communication breakdown between manager and key midfielders halfway through a key qualifier. It's no wonder we lost the second half 3-0.
He has probably pissed off Darcy Blake recalling Collins and Ashley Williams in the process.
Are there any other examples?
So has he lost them?
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Post by llannerch on Sept 14, 2012 12:58:38 GMT
Maybe the players have lost Coleman? But as there isn't another 20 he can go and pick what can he do.
The psychology of players is largely a herd mentality. I doubt many managers have lost a dressing room. A couple of senior players take umbrage with a manager and the rest follow.
The question is: Has he lost Ramsey, Bale and Bellamy. No-one else exerts much influence I suspect
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Post by Baxter Cymru on Sept 14, 2012 12:59:10 GMT
Bellamy has missed the last two Cardiff games..doesn't he want to pllay for Malky either then?
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Post by cymroircarn on Sept 14, 2012 16:39:19 GMT
Bellamy has not played for a known injury problem and/or personal issues. You are just stirring here for stirring sakes.
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Post by idiot on Sept 14, 2012 18:00:07 GMT
if hes lost them so early it would suggest that he never had them in the first place
maybe the players dont rate him,they might be sulking about dutch ray not getting the job,maybe they've taken a dislike to the guy?
this happens more and more often in football these days,look at chelsea,the senior lot dont like a coach so they sulk,stop giving a 100% and bitch to abramovic until the coach leaves,the players have the power to make and break coaches
regardless of the welsh players opinion on coleman i still expect them to go out onto the field with passion and commitment to the cause
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Post by njdragon on Sept 14, 2012 18:14:40 GMT
I don't think they rate him, i don't think many people do.
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Post by saints19 on Sept 14, 2012 18:16:47 GMT
If Ramsey thinks he has the right to give anything less than 100% because Coleman approached Shawcross about playing for Wales then that demonstrates a serious lack of character in my eyes. Shawcross made a shocking tackle on Ramsey - but that's in the past. Get over it and look at the bigger picture. He has no sympathy from me if he does think that.
Bellamy's personal problems are documented and he has a history of representing his country with pride. However it does seem that lately he has been prepared to be less than committed if he doesn't like the manager. Recall when he was unavailable for us while Flynn was manager, yet was fit to play for Cardiff just a few days later?
These players should give 100% because they are representing their country, not a manager. I don't give two hoots who the manager is or what they think of him, not to try your best is unacceptable when fans are paying good money in hard economic times to support their national team.
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Post by saints19 on Sept 14, 2012 18:23:49 GMT
I notice Coleman is planning talks with Craig Bellamy. It's obvious Bellamy does not want to play for Coleman. Malky Mackay has just said Bellamy's performance in training recently has been 'immense' but he didn't show up in Serbia and is due to return against Leeds this weekend. He will have pissed Ramsey off with the Shawcross approach. The Vaughan shoulder shrug to Allen indicates a complete communication breakdown between manager and key midfielders halfway through a key qualifier. It's no wonder we lost the second half 3-0. He has probably pissed off Darcy Blake recalling Collins and Ashley Williams in the process. Are there any other examples? So has he lost them? Ramsey getting 'pissed off' because Coleman tried to improve our defensive options. Blake getting 'pissed off' because he has some competition from Collins for his place. Collins the same with Blake. Bellamy doesn't want to play for Coleman. If any of these things happened in club football or at any place of work - if it happened at your workplace or mine we would be disciplined, not pampered and appeased. Why should it be any different for international football? Coleman hasn't 'lost the dressing room'. He hasn't done anything obviously stupid or inflammatory. It's just that the 'dressing room' has a bad attitude and thinks because many of them earn more in a month than Coleman does in a year, they should be able to impose their will on the team. It doesn't work like that. |
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Post by idiot on Sept 14, 2012 18:30:07 GMT
I notice Coleman is planning talks with Craig Bellamy. It's obvious Bellamy does not want to play for Coleman. Malky Mackay has just said Bellamy's performance in training recently has been 'immense' but he didn't show up in Serbia and is due to return against Leeds this weekend. He will have pissed Ramsey off with the Shawcross approach. The Vaughan shoulder shrug to Allen indicates a complete communication breakdown between manager and key midfielders halfway through a key qualifier. It's no wonder we lost the second half 3-0. He has probably pissed off Darcy Blake recalling Collins and Ashley Williams in the process. Are there any other examples? So has he lost them? Ramsey getting 'pissed off' because Coleman tried to improve our defensive options. Blake getting 'pissed off' because he has some competition from Collins for his place. Collins the same with Blake. Bellamy doesn't want to play for Coleman. If any of these things happened in club football or at any place of work - if it happened at your workplace or mine we would be disciplined, not pampered and appeased. Why should it be any different for international football? Coleman hasn't 'lost the dressing room'. He hasn't done anything obviously stupid or inflammatory. It's just that the 'dressing room' has a bad attitude and thinks because many of them earn more in a month than Coleman does in a year, they should be able to impose their will on the team. It doesn't work like that. i think the worry with that unfortunately is that they dont get paid to play for wales so you upset them and they have no contractual obligation to turn up |
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Post by Tim P on Sept 14, 2012 19:06:19 GMT
Coleman may have pissed the players off, but all managers do this. The difference is that a good manager will still retain the respect of the players (even the pissed off ones). Is Coleman a good manager?
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Post by rushy on Sept 14, 2012 19:42:50 GMT
Did he have their backing in the first place , hard to know but that performance shows things are not right within, the next game will tell us everything we need to know about "the situation", thats for sure.
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Post by idiot on Sept 14, 2012 20:00:26 GMT
i dont think they wanted him in the first place,ive never seen a coleman training session but i imagine its pretty old school compared to the methods speed and stingray used
it must feel like a step backwards for the players
again,its still no excuse for what happened in serbia
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Post by yrarglwyddlucan on Sept 14, 2012 20:12:16 GMT
"Ramsey getting 'pissed off' because Coleman tried to improve our defensive options. Blake getting 'pissed off' because he has some competition from Collins for his place. Collins the same with Blake. Bellamy doesn't want to play for Coleman."
All of that is fantasy. Ramsey ran himself ragged and should have been subbed after 75 minutes because he was exhausted and was in danger of getting sent off.
The training sessions are taken by Symonds, Hartson, Williams and Roberts, which would depress anyone.
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Post by njdragon on Sept 14, 2012 20:20:48 GMT
"Ramsey getting 'pissed off' because Coleman tried to improve our defensive options. Blake getting 'pissed off' because he has some competition from Collins for his place. Collins the same with Blake. Bellamy doesn't want to play for Coleman." All of that is fantasy. Ramsey ran himself ragged and should have been subbed after 75 minutes because he was exhausted and was in danger of getting sent off. The training sessions are taken by Symonds, Hartson, Williams and Roberts, which would depress anyone. This is true and i can't believe coleman started with the same side that played more or less 65 mins on the friday night with only 10 men + one player returning from illness. It's no wonder we got turned over. |
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Post by oojibooji on Sept 14, 2012 20:36:12 GMT
Maybe the players, like some fans, have taken against him on account of his work as a TV pundit and therefore seen as à bit of a joke. If that's the case then Coleman didn't stand a chance, even before he met the squad.
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Post by idiot on Sept 14, 2012 20:38:33 GMT
Maybe the players, like some fans, have taken against him on account of his work as a TV pundit and therefore seen as à bit of a joke. If that's the case then Coleman didn't stand a chance, even before he met the squad. or as its commonly known 'doing a toshack' |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 14, 2012 23:10:44 GMT
YES GIVE CHRIS COLEMAN TIME. www1.skysports.com/football/news/12018/7441874/Pulis-Coleman-needs-timeLook, Coleman has had a lot of important players injured unfortunately in the two opening qualifying games, Also these players are not all on form for their clubs at the moment, and not quite looking match fit yet. Against Mexico (Beat Brazil a week after us and went on to win the Olympic competition) we did not play that badly regarding we didn't have the strongest possible XI, parts of the difficult game we did well. Bosnia we played very badly for most of the match, and it was a depressing performance against a strong Bosnia side, then Came Belgium and all the injuries....everything looked promising and Coleman made the right choices tactically with very little time to do so, until Collins who had a good game made that silly Challenge, we then lost after conceding 2 poor goals and not being able to create with 10 men. We all know it was an absolutely horrific performance against Serbia but I'm not quite sure Chris Coleman was entirely at fault for this performance...as Joe Allen said it's the players fault more than anyone, they're getting off this one very lightly for some reason. He needs to be backed by our fans and country BECAUSE he's only had 4 proper games in charge!! what kind of idea is it to get rid of a manager after 4 games:/ Bringing in a new one now will not give us any more of a chance to qualify, let Coleman have time. We will beat Scotland 2-0. and We're going to beat Croatia 3-1. |
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Post by cymroircarn on Sept 17, 2012 7:02:08 GMT
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Post by alarch on Sept 17, 2012 9:33:08 GMT
Sounds like Coleman is being lined up for the push...
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Post by Deleted on Sept 17, 2012 9:35:57 GMT
Sounds like Coleman is being lined up for the push... Agreed. |
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Post by llannerch on Sept 17, 2012 12:09:40 GMT
The notion that Chris Coleman "has been very successful in the past" is laughable
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Post by llannerch on Sept 17, 2012 12:16:09 GMT
The training sessions are taken by Symonds, Hartson, Williams and Roberts, which would depress anyone. I'd love to hear on what you base this statement. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 17, 2012 12:34:04 GMT
That sound you can't hear is all the quality managers champing at the bit to manage Wales. Getting rid of Coleman is all very well but if we don't get a manager in who can connect with our prima donnas then it will have the same effect as re-arranging the deck chairs on the titanic.
But then I assume the FAW must have people in mind already (apart from giggs) to put the pressure on the next two games. I mean, they can't be that short sighted, can they?
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Post by Deleted on Sept 17, 2012 12:56:19 GMT
almost as short sighted as you with your ray bashing and endorsement of colemans appointment
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Post by flynnfan on Sept 17, 2012 13:42:17 GMT
Love the irony of spelling mistakes, miatakes...
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Post by yrarglwyddlucan on Sept 17, 2012 13:49:08 GMT
"I'd love to hear on what you base this statement."
Coleman's own words. The sequence was interesting - Hartson announced that he was joining the coaching team - Coleman denied it and said Hartson would just be a buffer between Coleman and the players because Coleman didn't want to be too close to them!!!!!!!!! - Coleman then said that Hartson was indeed joining the coaching team and would be coaching the strikers - Coleman also stated that he himself would be observing the training sessions not taking them.
Coleman's problems are very deep but things could get worse. Within the FAW there is still a group that want Hartson as manager. That group will try to insert Hartson if Coleman leaves.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 17, 2012 14:02:53 GMT
oh my fucking lordy lord!
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Post by llannerch on Sept 17, 2012 14:41:42 GMT
"I'd love to hear on what you base this statement." Coleman's own words. The sequence was interesting - Hartson announced that he was joining the coaching team - Coleman denied it and said Hartson would just be a buffer between Coleman and the players because Coleman didn't want to be too close to them!!!!!!!!! - Coleman then said that Hartson was indeed joining the coaching team and would be coaching the strikers - Coleman also stated that he himself would be observing the training sessions not taking them. Coleman's problems are very deep but things could get worse. Within the FAW there is still a group that want Hartson as manager. That group will try to insert Hartson if Coleman leaves. Messy....but I still don't see why it would depress anyone |
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