Chris Coleman

[Deleted]

I don't believe that we in wales have less inate talent than in other countries and that we are not good enough to challenge.

if you want to settle for 3rd place then fine but I want us to qualify. It's all about belief and your attitude is a reason why we don't ever qualify - you have to believe you are good enough to compete and have a management set up that can instil it in the players and in a sophisticated and transparent system. Then everyone would turn up - even Bellamy.

Yes they should have gone with Ray and the previous set up - we had invested a year in developing that system and there was a belief in all of our players and squad and fans that the right systems were in place - and we were getting the results to back it up.

Coleman was on the radio this morning talking like he has the job for the forseeable future - its a complete fucking disaster. Also I notice the Coleman apologists have gone quiet this week.

[alarch]

This is a bit like arguing for Davies instead of Vokes. Might have some validity, but would it really make that much difference having Ray instead of Coleman. Ray had no pedigree, and was a ticking time-bomb, with his egotistical statements. It might have worked - but it was very high risk. In any event, he's history and Coleman will be Welsh manager for a while yet. Limited perhaps, but "complete fucking disaster" - I can't see that.

[abwales]

I posted in a different topic that I feared little victories like the Scotland one would prolong Coleman's reign, which will ultimately be a complete failure because at the end of the day - he is a shit manager.

[Deleted]

Oct 18, 2012 11:30:26 GMT alarch said:

This is a bit like arguing for Davies instead of Vokes. Might have some validity, but would it really make that much difference having Ray instead of Coleman. Ray had no pedigree, and was a ticking time-bomb, with his egotistical statements. It might have worked - but it was very high risk. In any event, he's history and Coleman will be Welsh manager for a while yet. Limited perhaps, but "complete fucking disaster" - I can't see that.

Played 7
Won 1
Lost 6
For 3 (bale individual brilliance only)
Against 17

It's worse than limited. Also why not take a 'high risk' strategy? What the fuck have we got to lose - we haven't qualified for anything for eons!

[Deleted]

Sorry but let's face it - we've over rated our own squad, Coleman has done well so far and is not deserving the stick he's getting from some fans - it would be completely stupid to get rid of a manager after 6 games in charge, against all good teams.

for me...
Mexico - Went on to beat a very good Brazil side 2-0 week after they played us, went on to win the olympic micky mouse tournament, still a far better quality side than us. We played some good football in parts of this game too + no magic Gareth Bale who is just an absolute genius.

Bosnia - top of their (easy ish) group ahead of Greece with 10 points. But players didn't give a sh*t that game didn't look good at all, until bellamy came on and we played with a bit more confidence.

Belgium - When we had 11 men we looked like we could actually get something from this game, we played some nice football and the players gave absolutely everything, Collins played great, stupid challenge and they then dominated, 2 cheap goals to concede mind.

Serbia - rubbish, obviously by far our worst performance and we have every right to question what exactly went wrong in this game, disgrace.

Scotland - fully deserved to win against possibly the weakest side in our group, created quite a few chances which was nice to see, and gareth bales goal was immense, we showed character to come back from 1 down to score 2 in the last 10...moments like bale's goal is football. amazing.

Croatia - Too defensive, looked like we played for a draw, played safe. Bit disappointing not to see Robson-Kanu start and C.Davies get game time. But we were without a few good players and still in small parts of the game played some good football, mostly rubbish though. Croatia are quality, much better than us. Bit gutted with the 2 crappy goals we conceded, out of all the classy goals we could have lost too.

Cookie hasn't been particularly lucky with injuries, which as we know we can't afford to have to many of because our strength in depth is still not good enough. We should keep Chris Coleman until the end of this campaign then judge him, anything less than 4th (and if we've performed very badly in games) then he should go...and then we should look forward to the 2016 campaign Keep him for now, The players are behind him and want him to stay which is class! Support Chris Coleman and the team!!

[Deleted]

^^^ Excellent post. Thats exactly it and a fair summation of where we are and where our opponents are.

I just wouldn't say he has "done well", because he hasn't. He hasn't exceeded my expectations, he has beaten Scotland and thats par for the course.

And its worth emphasising that as poor as we were in Serbia and Croatia he got it spot on against Belgium and Scotland but that seems to be overlooked. And he put Williams at DM as well against Belgium which took a bit of nous seeing that everyone on here had decided that Williams couldn't play there. Just a pity that prick had to ruin it all by getting sent off- just one of many individual errors that have littered his reign so far and for which it is hard to hold Coleman personally accountable.

[abwales]

We'd of probably lost more than 2-0 against Belgium had we not gone down to 10 men, because we wouldn't have sat back.

You can evaluate the 6 games of CC's reign all you like. He shouldn't have got the job in the first place. He has never and will never have the potential to make a team over perform, which is what we need to do to qualify in the near future.

At the end of this campaign, when we only have 5 points in total if we're lucky, CC will still be in charge and bring out the old 'we used this campaign to prepare the euro's' and get another campaign, which will also end in failure. The only thing that will probably stop him from getting another campaign is if Ford gets his man. Who I'd much prefer have manage us despite how much of a twat he is. Anything is better than a dead-end manager like CC.

[njdragon]

Oct 18, 2012 16:13:45 GMT @cadnollanboidy said:

Coleman has done well so far

you serious!

to quote storm 'I'll have whatever you're smoking'

[Deleted]

Oct 18, 2012 16:13:45 GMT @cadnollanboidy said:

Sorry but let's face it - we've over rated our own squad, Coleman has done well so far and is not deserving the stick he's getting from some fans - it would be completely stupid to get rid of a manager after 6 games in charge, against all good teams.

for me...
Mexico - Went on to beat a very good Brazil side 2-0 week after they played us, went on to win the olympic micky mouse tournament, still a far better quality side than us. We played some good football in parts of this game too + no magic Gareth Bale who is just an absolute genius.

Bosnia - top of their (easy ish) group ahead of Greece with 10 points. But players didn't give a sh*t that game didn't look good at all, until bellamy came on and we played with a bit more confidence.

Belgium - When we had 11 men we looked like we could actually get something from this game, we played some nice football and the players gave absolutely everything, Collins played great, stupid challenge and they then dominated, 2 cheap goals to concede mind.

Serbia - rubbish, obviously by far our worst performance and we have every right to question what exactly went wrong in this game, disgrace.

Scotland - fully deserved to win against possibly the weakest side in our group, created quite a few chances which was nice to see, and gareth bales goal was immense, we showed character to come back from 1 down to score 2 in the last 10...moments like bale's goal is football. amazing.

Croatia - Too defensive, looked like we played for a draw, played safe. Bit disappointing not to see Robson-Kanu start and C.Davies get game time. But we were without a few good players and still in small parts of the game played some good football, mostly rubbish though. Croatia are quality, much better than us. Bit gutted with the 2 crappy goals we conceded, out of all the classy goals we could have lost too.

Cookie hasn't been particularly lucky with injuries, which as we know we can't afford to have to many of because our strength in depth is still not good enough. We should keep Chris Coleman until the end of this campaign then judge him, anything less than 4th (and if we've performed very badly in games) then he should go...and then we should look forward to the 2016 campaign Keep him for now, The players are behind him and want him to stay which is class! Support Chris Coleman and the team!!

I stopped reading after you said 'coleman has done well so far'

[Deleted]

Oct 18, 2012 17:25:05 GMT abwales said:

The only thing that will probably stop him from getting another campaign is if Ford gets his man. Who I'd much prefer have manage us despite how much of a twat he is.

If Uncle Timekeeper Taggart lets him I hasten to add.

[Deleted]

Oct 18, 2012 19:37:50 GMT @baresi said:

Oct 18, 2012 16:13:45 GMT @cadnollanboidy said:

Sorry but let's face it - we've over rated our own squad, Coleman has done well so far and is not deserving the stick he's getting from some fans - it would be completely stupid to get rid of a manager after 6 games in charge, against all good teams.

for me...
Mexico - Went on to beat a very good Brazil side 2-0 week after they played us, went on to win the olympic micky mouse tournament, still a far better quality side than us. We played some good football in parts of this game too + no magic Gareth Bale who is just an absolute genius.

Bosnia - top of their (easy ish) group ahead of Greece with 10 points. But players didn't give a sh*t that game didn't look good at all, until bellamy came on and we played with a bit more confidence.

Belgium - When we had 11 men we looked like we could actually get something from this game, we played some nice football and the players gave absolutely everything, Collins played great, stupid challenge and they then dominated, 2 cheap goals to concede mind.

Serbia - rubbish, obviously by far our worst performance and we have every right to question what exactly went wrong in this game, disgrace.

Scotland - fully deserved to win against possibly the weakest side in our group, created quite a few chances which was nice to see, and gareth bales goal was immense, we showed character to come back from 1 down to score 2 in the last 10...moments like bale's goal is football. amazing.

Croatia - Too defensive, looked like we played for a draw, played safe. Bit disappointing not to see Robson-Kanu start and C.Davies get game time. But we were without a few good players and still in small parts of the game played some good football, mostly rubbish though. Croatia are quality, much better than us. Bit gutted with the 2 crappy goals we conceded, out of all the classy goals we could have lost too.

Cookie hasn't been particularly lucky with injuries, which as we know we can't afford to have to many of because our strength in depth is still not good enough. We should keep Chris Coleman until the end of this campaign then judge him, anything less than 4th (and if we've performed very badly in games) then he should go...and then we should look forward to the 2016 campaign Keep him for now, The players are behind him and want him to stay which is class! Support Chris Coleman and the team!!

I stopped reading after you said 'coleman has done well so far'

Okay I was wrong there, he hasn't done well..but he hasn't done as bad as a lot of people make out - certainly not bad enough to get sacked already, in my opinion anyway.

[rossettred]

On the back of the Scotland result we have jumped 2 places re. Euro 2016 seeding co-efficients and have returned to Pot 4.

26 29 Montenegro 19911
27 30 Belarus 19246
-------------------------------
28 33 Austria 19231
29 27 Poland 19183
30 31 Latvia 18911
31 26 Armenia 18841
32 28 Scotland 18653
33 34 Estonia 18567
34 32 Finland 18076
35 37 Wales 17811
36 36 Bulgaria 17511
-------------------------------
37 35 Northern Ireland 17321
38 38 Albania 17191

[Deleted]

Oct 19, 2012 18:58:56 GMT rossettred said:

On the back of the Scotland result we have jumped 2 places re. Euro 2016 seeding co-efficients and have returned to Pot 4.

26 29 Montenegro 19911
27 30 Belarus 19246
-------------------------------
28 33 Austria 19231
29 27 Poland 19183
30 31 Latvia 18911
31 26 Armenia 18841
32 28 Scotland 18653
33 34 Estonia 18567
34 32 Finland 18076
35 37 Wales 17811
36 36 Bulgaria 17511
-------------------------------
37 35 Northern Ireland 17321
38 38 Albania 17191

That's a relief least!

[stu]

Oct 19, 2012 18:58:56 GMT rossettred said:

On the back of the Scotland result we have jumped 2 places re. Euro 2016 seeding co-efficients and have returned to Pot 4.

26 29 Montenegro 19911
27 30 Belarus 19246
-------------------------------
28 33 Austria 19231
29 27 Poland 19183
30 31 Latvia 18911
31 26 Armenia 18841
32 28 Scotland 18653
33 34 Estonia 18567
34 32 Finland 18076
35 37 Wales 17811
36 36 Bulgaria 17511
-------------------------------
37 35 Northern Ireland 17321
38 38 Albania 17191

It's also worth noting that Belarus and Finland (both above us) are both in a 5 team group with France and Spain. Therefore they realistically have far less chance to win coefficient points than we do. There is no reason we cant get into the 3rd pot this campaign. At the very least if we finish 4th that still gives us a good opportunity of having two lower ranked teams than us. It will probably be our luck though that the Catalans will be free and in our group by then though. ;D

As for Croatia, they may have dominated the game but both goals came from mistakes at our end. Yes it could have been another Serbia but with out those mistakes and our first XI on the pitch it could also have been 0-1 to us.

[saints19]

Not sure about getting into the 3rd pot, but I feel being in pot 4 would give us a fighting chance for the next campaign. The comeback begins!

[welshiron]

Whilst he wasn't my first choice for manager and results have been poor it is time for us all to back the manager.

The players have shown their commitment by turning up and backing him now it's our turn.

I will be there on Wednesday and hope a few of the moaners can get down there so we can get a respectable crowd.

Where else could you watch a player like Bale for £10 and £5 for kids.

Hopefully confidence has picked up and we can beat Austria to build on that before heading North to beat the cheating Jock bar stewards

As for Coleman, he needs to be judged at the end of the campaign and if we finish well will deserve another crack as we could do without starting all over again.

[njdragon]

I'll back Coleman when he gives me a reason too.

I backed him at the start. Blind faith gets you nowhere.

[njdragon]

I'll be down there wednesday though!

[yanto]

right on welshiron - coleman deserves a break - very easy to slag him off. The players r turning so get behind them! having said that I'm unable to get to the liberty this time.........

[Baxter Cymru]

Great thread!! Spot on lets get behind Cookie and the boys.

[Deleted]

Feb 5, 2013 13:38:47 GMT njdragon said:

I'll back Coleman when he gives me a reason too.

I backed him at the start. Blind faith gets you nowhere.

Yep.

He has, on the face of it, seemingly managed to convince all the key players to attend this friendly. Is this luck or judgement? You would think he should have the benefit of the doubt on this one.

I will be hoping we and he can deliver against Austria.

His record so far is absolutely appalling though and for all those who said Speed started badly - well Coleman has has enough time now to start delivering performances and results. From 5 or so games in Speed had clearly turned the corner.

This must start tomorrow or its time to call the taxi.

[Baxter Cymru]

I agree with that Baresi mate, its time for him to start delivering results now. He has done incredibly well to finally have near enough full strength 11to select for this game!!

[Deleted]

Speed did manage to get us playing well by raising the tempo, putting Bale on the right so the 4-3-3 actually worked and also allowing the players to hit an early ball when necessary.

But I don't think he could have achieved this if the likes of Ramsey and Allen were not on form either. Plus how would he have coped with no Bellamy?

These are problems that Coleman has had to deal with that have had a negative impact. I think this is the first time since Coleman took over that at club level our key players collectively seem to be doing the business. Ramsey is on his way back, Williams has cut out the errors and is consistently leading the stats for blocks in the area, Bellamy back in the fold.

Everything points to us giving a good account of ourselves against Austria, what we can do with players fit and in form. My only concern is that they don't take it seriously. In that sense Coleman has to impress upon them the importance of going out there and re-discovering some belief that we are not as bad as the rankings say.

A good performance coupled with a win will hopefully instil some confidence in Coleman and encourage Bellamy to turn out for the remaining games in the campaign.

[alarch]

Very well said storm, my sentiments entirely. Up to a point Coleman has had valid excuses for some poor performances to date, this time there will be none available. Mind you I don't think he will need them. I expect a much improved performance this time at the very least. This could be a turning point, in the way Speed (with a bit of luck it has to be said) had a turning point in the Montenegro game at home.

[yanto]

But lets not forget this is a friendly so its more about creating spirit and trying things - result not so important possibly but granted a win woud be huge boost ahead of sweaties game. Don't forget that speed turned corner against Montenegro but then we lost the next game to those on other side of Dyke. A very similar pattern to this in that we lost to Croatia. Having said that we did play 'wrong side of dyke lot' off the park in the second half.

[georgetm1]

What happened to Speed must have had an impact on the team and management. So I think a bit more time is needed for Coleman. But more than likely if we get beaten tonight I will be calling for his blood tomorrow.

[alarch]

The single most significant factor in determining our fate in a particular match or campaign going back decades has been player availability. Coleman makes this point well in his recent interview, and although it can be used as an excuse at times, you only have to look back at the record of our recent managers back to Hughes, to see that when key players have been absent we have really suffered as a result.

A lesser factor has been form - but this has certainly affected our chances in this campaign. Our current and previous captains, Williams and Ramsey, had very poor starts to the season, and it reflected in their performances for Wales. It made Coleman look inept, but he can't be held responsible for the poor form of individuals. That's why tonight is very, very important for Wales, but especially Coleman. There are no excuses available. We have as strong a squad as we've had for years, and most of our best players (Allen excepted) in good, or excellent form. That's not to say that there's won't be individual Collinsesque gaffes. But the least we can expect is a coherent, dynamic performances that stretches the opposition. I fully expect that to materialise. If not, there will be no hiding places for Coleman.

[yanto]

Good points alarch - agree with most. The 'collinseque' gaffes are typical to the huge majority of our defenders for ever and a day. Not enough time to go through the all but unfair to single him out - although I have also screamed at his gaffs too!

[Deleted]

Beating Austria and losing to Scotland is not an option for me though.

Tonight is very important for Coleman as a successful week now will be imperative if we are to win against the Jocks. You have to start somewhere.

Then we have to take the 3 points up there. That's where he is ultimately measured and he will only do that with a confident fully firing squad.

In reality he will not be fired after tonight's game even if we are shit. Ford will wait until the points match in Hampden to reassess surely?

[Deleted]

Feb 6, 2013 11:05:44 GMT alarch said:

The single most significant factor in determining our fate in a particular match or campaign going back decades has been player availability. Coleman makes this point well in his recent interview, and although it can be used as an excuse at times, you only have to look back at the record of our recent managers back to Hughes, to see that when key players have been absent we have really suffered as a result.

A lesser factor has been form - but this has certainly affected our chances in this campaign. Our current and previous captains, Williams and Ramsey, had very poor starts to the season, and it reflected in their performances for Wales. It made Coleman look inept, but he can't be held responsible for the poor form of individuals. That's why tonight is very, very important for Wales, but especially Coleman. There are no excuses available. We have as strong a squad as we've had for years, and most of our best players (Allen excepted) in good, or excellent form. That's not to say that there's won't be individual Collinsesque gaffes. But the least we can expect is a coherent, dynamic performances that stretches the opposition. I fully expect that to materialise. If not, there will be no hiding places for Coleman.

Agreed.