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Post by Deleted on Sept 7, 2013 22:21:46 GMT
Well that's amazing work by Ford & the Council. Well done to all for all your efforts in securing the services of Coleman (not forgetting Symons, Hartson, Williams & Paige) for the forseeable future.
Maybe they should hire a passport controller for the next campaign.
Coleman's career was ended by a stupid mistake and this campaign has been dogged by them if you cast your minds back. Well the faw has just compounded their stupid mistake of hiring this turkey in the first place.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 7, 2013 23:05:22 GMT
I'm going to buy shares in Gillette, sales of razor blades are gonna go through the roof on the back of this...
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Post by scoop76 on Sept 7, 2013 23:39:10 GMT
Those Coleman comments come from Rob Phillips's interview, first broadcast on Radio Wales on Saturday morning. You'll need to scroll 44 minutes into the programme, there's a 5 minute long interview there: www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b039tj1zInterview looks at Macedonia defeat, Gareth Bale staying on bench, whether Coleman misled the travelling fans, Aaron Ramsey's performance, Johnny Williams injury, missing passport and agreeing new contract. |
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Post by squatter1 on Sept 8, 2013 12:46:19 GMT
Well, I guess Coleman still has time to turn it round - if he finishes third in the group I'd say we have to be satisfied.
I'd be pleasantly amazed if he does though.
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Post by saints19 on Sept 8, 2013 13:37:16 GMT
I am in disbelief at the stupidity of the FAW.
The FAW did not need to renew his contract now. They could have waited until the end of the campaign. Coleman would not have been going anywhere as his most recent efforts in club management have been distinctly underwhelming.
Instead they renew the contract of a manager who has just led his side to an abysmal defeat in Macedonia - abysmal not because of the result as such, but the manner of it. Furthermore they renew the contract of a manager who has failed to coach a moderately talented side to more than one clean sheet in twelve games, with only three wins and an abysmal 6-1 drubbing amongst those games. And the lack of clean sheets is no fluke - it's down to the lack of organisation, or risky tactics, that we've seen under the current management.
Idiots.
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Post by President Bale on Sept 8, 2013 13:41:41 GMT
So we can write off the Euros qualifying round already then... Who said the FAW were inefficient?!
But hey, the FAW members can have a few years now in which to relax, forget all about the pesky business of qualifying, put down their Werthers Originals and book themselves onto some silver surfers computer courses. They could learn how to use these new-fangled computer thingys and the mysterious giant electronic encyclopedia called 'the internet' where they might find out about the existence of managerial candidates beyond [insert name of managerially inexperienced / inept / English media darling former Welsh international here].
Pffft. I'll look forward to Dean Saunders forgetting the kits for away matches running up to Russia 2018...
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Post by Deleted on Sept 8, 2013 14:53:41 GMT
Just watched the game again, we dominated most of the 1st half and deserved to be winning, conceded 2 crap goals. Strange substitutes imo! And also we seriously need to start Sam Vokes, he wins headers he's strong and chases the ball down well. Much more of a threat in the box than Collison/Bellamy/Joniesta - at least we can knock a few crosses in with him on the team.
I'd like to see how we will do with a fully fit squad against Macedonia home and Belgium away, really crossing my fingers that we won't have any injuries or suspensions.
Hennessey
Taylor Ricketts Williams Davies
Allen Ramsey Joniesta
Bale Vokes Bellamy
Subs: Myhill, Gunter, Matthews, John, Dummett, Collins, Gabbidon, Ledley, Vaughan, Collison, King, Crofts, Robson-Kanu, Church.
IMO under Coleman we would be quality with a fully fit side. But I doubt we'll ever have a fully fit side under him.
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Post by Tim P on Sept 8, 2013 16:13:01 GMT
And also we seriously need to start Sam Vokes, he wins headers he's strong and chases the ball down well. Much more of a threat in the box than Collison/Bellamy/Joniesta - at least we can knock a few crosses in with him on the team. Vokes is no Drogba or Dzeko. We'd be better off playing Bale as a false 9 - he'll still be in the box on occasion and is far better in the air than Vokes. Vokes only becomes a serious prospect if he plays an entire season in the Burnley first team. |
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Post by abwales on Sept 8, 2013 16:23:43 GMT
Its not about how the managers do with a full fit squad, its all about how they do with a depleted one, and Coleman moans constantly about him never having the full squad. ITS NO EXCUSE, they may as well put it in the fucking contract that he's going to have to deal with withdrawals because its certain to happen to our best players.
The only way we do qualify UNDER COLEMAN, is if the draw is at least decent and we have our top players at almost every game. WHICH ISN'T GOING TO HAPPEN.
WHICH IS WHY HE HAS TO GO.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 8, 2013 16:34:50 GMT
And also we seriously need to start Sam Vokes, he wins headers he's strong and chases the ball down well. Much more of a threat in the box than Collison/Bellamy/Joniesta - at least we can knock a few crosses in with him on the team. Vokes is no Drogba or Dzeko. We'd be better off playing Bale as a false 9 - he'll still be in the box on occasion and is far better in the air than Vokes. Vokes only becomes a serious prospect if he plays an entire season in the Burnley first team. He's better off being on the wing or behind the striker imo but I agree that it's a good option to have him as false 9 with Robson-Kanu Williams or Bellamy out wide. I would prefer to have Vokes up top with Bale wide or behind him! Chris Coleman is using these last few games to experiment with different ideas on how to create opportunities and break teams down, lately we've been trying to pass it around, small quick passes, the occasional long-diagonal ball and trying to pass it through the middle of defences, we very rarely cross the ball into the box. I don't think it's working, but it's all preparation for the Euro 2016 campaign! |
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Post by squatter1 on Sept 8, 2013 17:03:03 GMT
And also we seriously need to start Sam Vokes, he wins headers he's strong and chases the ball down well. Much more of a threat in the box than Collison/Bellamy/Joniesta - at least we can knock a few crosses in with him on the team. Vokes is no Drogba or Dzeko. We'd be better off playing Bale as a false 9 - he'll still be in the box on occasion and is far better in the air than Vokes. Vokes only becomes a serious prospect if he plays an entire season in the Burnley first team. Vokes certainly isn't Dzeko or Drogba but he's the best we've got. I think we have to play with one striker. 1. We have in effect been playing a false nine recently with Bellamy up top. He comes deep all the time and Collison tries to fill in up front. It's led to lack of shape in attack and no-one to cross to when someone hits the byline. No-one plays false nine. I mean even in the history of football when has a team had success with a false nine other than Spain? 2. We really shouldnt play Bale as striker. He needs to play behind the striker as he did for Spurs. Bale will be easier to mark if there's no-one occupying the centrebacks. And he needs to be involved in midfield positions as that's where he does most damage from. We would be in danger of squandering our main asset by playing him in a position he's never played before and doesn't suit him. 3. Our best football in recent years was the spell where we played Steve Morrison up front. That's not because Morrison is a great striker (far from it) but that having a striker helps our attacking shape. Having said all that, I'd be up for giving it a go in a friendly (or even Macedonia at home) and if it works - shit, I'll get with the programme! |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 8, 2013 17:10:00 GMT
Vokes is no Drogba or Dzeko. We'd be better off playing Bale as a false 9 - he'll still be in the box on occasion and is far better in the air than Vokes. Vokes only becomes a serious prospect if he plays an entire season in the Burnley first team. He's better off being on the wing or behind the striker imo. Still a good option to having him as false 9 with Robson-Kanu Williams or Bellamy out wide. But, I would prefer Vokes up top with Bale wide or behind him!  We ended up playing without a dedicated striker against the ROI and it was a shambles. Bellamy also looks a shadow of his former self these days, he will be retiring at the end of this campaign and I honestly don't think we will miss him. Well, we will as his replacement will be inferior- but what does Bellamy bring to the table these days? He makes very little impact. To be honest I don't even know why i am even posting this. I honestly don't feel like I care much after the Macedonia defeat. I always feel apathetic after a defeat, but this time I feel like i really have lost all hope that we will ever qualify. At least for a bloody long time. Everything about us is just fucked. The manager ain't great, we rely on Bale way too much. Without him we struggle to create anything and when we do we are useless in front of goal. Due to our well documented injury struggles we are regularly unable to field sides that can really compete. I've had years of watching crap Wales sides struggle to win, think its about time I just sit back, start taking it less seriously and treat it all like the joke that it is. |
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Post by squatter1 on Sept 8, 2013 17:32:03 GMT
Chin up mate.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 8, 2013 17:54:57 GMT
its depressing though isn't it? We have got the worlds most expensive player yet what good is it doing us? Even when he's fit to play he's carrying the whole side. I just don't have the faith that others do that changing the manager is all that's missing. I look at our side and we should be better than we are, definitely. But they just don't seem to be able to operate as a unit, plus we are lacking quality in key positions. I don't have any faith in any of it. Players, management, FAW. Piss poor, all of it. Maybe a win against Serbia and ill start clutching at straws again, but at this point in time qualification seems as far off as it did under Tosh, I'm afraid to say.
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Post by squatter1 on Sept 8, 2013 18:40:00 GMT
Nah, qualification is closer than ever given the changes to the Euros and that one other factor: Bale.
Whatever else happens, if he's fit for a majority of our matches, we have a chance.
That at least is our last crumb of comfort - however shite everything else is, if we roll the dice and get lucky with Bale being around for most of our qualifiers next time, we will have a chance.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 9, 2013 11:15:49 GMT
Can anyone sell this to me?
What are the benefits, if any? (I can't see any)
Does anyone expect Coleman and his teams (including the U21s) to deliver anything except abject mediocrity or worse?
What is the point in throwing another campaign away and sacking Coleman half way through the Euro 16 qualifiers, because at the halfway point, I can tell you all now, we will be out of contention.
I have seen enough to know the bloke is way out of his depth.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 9, 2013 11:42:44 GMT
Either he FAW don't believe they can get anyone better, or they can't be bothered to get, or pay for anyone better. Either way the timing is pretty shocking.
My personal belief is that the FAW are just keeping the seat warm for Giggs to take over in time for the Euro 2016 qualifiers. Coleman is an easy mark for that sort of task.
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Post by alarch on Sept 9, 2013 11:49:35 GMT
I can't quite agree. Yes, he's not the most inspiring of choices, and I wish there were better alternative (affordable) candidates out there, but I'm not quite as gloomy as you baresi. His main drawback is that he isn't bold enough. If you truly want to play the passing game then you have to favour the individuals who favour that system, even if they are playing at a lower level, or are emerging talents (e.g. Richards ahead of Gunter). He has to commit fully to the project, and then we may see 90 minute performances that hang together, rather than the disjointed performances that we are seeing at present, where there are good and bad bits. This is unsurprising when you have a high proportion of our players never having played the possession, playing in tight spaces game, at club level.
Our success or otherwise is mainly going to be determined by injuries. It makes for an unsatisfying narrative, but it is true nevertheless. If we are able to put our best players out on the pitch most of the time in the next campaign then there will be good grounds for confidence. But that really is in the lap of the gods.
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Post by saints19 on Sept 9, 2013 21:23:09 GMT
When they could have simply waited until the end of the campaign to decide, I honestly cannot fathom why they have made the decision. OK, so maybe in spite of a poor campaign, they still think Coleman has done alright. But at least wait until his campaign is over, then judge him. I can't help but think there were other motivations than performance at play here, namely that the FAW want a compliant manager who will toe the party line and not upset Real Madrid. There is no rational explanation for renewing his contract now on performance grounds, whatsoever.
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Post by toshfan on Sept 9, 2013 22:23:10 GMT
Maybe they considered the unique and awfully tragic circumstances in which he inherited the job. Not the sole consideration but must be amongst others?
Also, most who were at Hampden so lots of potential. In fairness, Bellamy saw the same thing. I remember it as one of the most positive respones post-match from him.
In my view, only the the performance away to Serbia was totally unacceptable during his tenure.
My biggest concerns are:
1) We are missing that one striker
2) The defense has not been improved as much as it should have from a former defender
3) I am extremely concerned about what is happening with the u21s.
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Post by njdragon on Sept 10, 2013 6:15:24 GMT
3 Wins, 1 draw and 8 losses is not good enough.
LIke the dutch man says, these are very good players and they will occasionally pick up good results despite of the bad coaching and set up.
Jobs for the boyos - just because they are welsh it doesn't mean they are the best choice, I'm 100% sure there are far more affordable foreign coaches out theres.
Come on Kit symons, page, hartson, williams??? FFS apart from hartson they weren't even good players and no where near the level we have now.
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Post by toshfan on Sept 10, 2013 8:16:57 GMT
3 Wins, 1 draw and 8 losses is not good enough. LIke the dutch man says, these are very good players and they will occasionally pick up good results despite of the bad coaching and set up. Jobs for the boyos - just because they are welsh it doesn't mean they are the best choice, I'm 100% sure there are far more affordable foreign coaches out theres. Come on Kit symons, page, hartson, williams??? FFS apart from hartson they weren't even good players and no where near the level we have now. Would be interested in where you stand on the Mark Hughes era. I think his record in qualifiers was similar? Actually Chris Coleman was a very good player. That notwithstanding, good players do not always make good managers. |
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Post by njdragon on Sept 10, 2013 8:46:13 GMT
3 Wins, 1 draw and 8 losses is not good enough. LIke the dutch man says, these are very good players and they will occasionally pick up good results despite of the bad coaching and set up. Jobs for the boyos - just because they are welsh it doesn't mean they are the best choice, I'm 100% sure there are far more affordable foreign coaches out theres. Come on Kit symons, page, hartson, williams??? FFS apart from hartson they weren't even good players and no where near the level we have now. Would be interested in where you stand on the Mark Hughes era. I think his record in qualifiers was similar? Actually Chris Coleman was a very good player. That notwithstanding, good players do not always make good managers. Really??? We went on a 10 match record unbeaten run under hughes and very nearly qualified, can you see that with this regime? In fact the record of a new manager losing his first 5 games in charge was very nearly broken. Ok I didn't mention coleman in that coaching group, he may have been decent and i'd forgive him if he had the nouse to bring in some top coaches - but page, williams and symons certainly weren't top class players and while you can say that doesn't necessarily mean they will be bad coaches, give me the evidence where they have proved themselves? Last i heard williams was sacked at orient, symons was a scout at fulham and page was a coach at port vale. These are not the best qualified coaches we can get and what this generation of welsh footballers deserve. |
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Post by Baxter Cymru on Sept 10, 2013 8:58:47 GMT
Kit Symons is the under 18s manager at fulham i believe the rest yea your right.
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Post by njdragon on Sept 10, 2013 9:18:07 GMT
ok cheers Bax
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Post by Deleted on Sept 10, 2013 9:32:01 GMT
Rob Phillips on Radio wales this morning referred to a bad week for Coleman finished off with a 'rant' by RV. He went on to say that Coleman's wales teams always deliver in adversity and in 'must win' games although tonight was not a 'must win' game as he already has his contract sorted. To me every game is a must win game - but hey as long as the contract is sorted.............................
There are no words to describe the despondency I feel towards our national set up. I am going this evening but I feel like what's the fucking point. Until there is radical change there is no hope.
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Post by toshfan on Sept 10, 2013 11:36:47 GMT
Would be interested in where you stand on the Mark Hughes era. I think his record in qualifiers was similar? Actually Chris Coleman was a very good player. That notwithstanding, good players do not always make good managers. Really??? We went on a 10 match record unbeaten run under hughes and very nearly qualified, can you see that with this regime? In fact the record of a new manager losing his first 5 games in charge was very nearly broken. Ok I didn't mention coleman in that coaching group, he may have been decent and i'd forgive him if he had the nouse to bring in some top coaches - but page, williams and symons certainly weren't top class players and while you can say that doesn't necessarily mean they will be bad coaches, give me the evidence where they have proved themselves? Last i heard williams was sacked at orient, symons was a scout at fulham and page was a coach at port vale. These are not the best qualified coaches we can get and what this generation of welsh footballers deserve. Of that 10 match record, how many were qualifiers? Other than Italy & Finland, how many were 'we have arrived' results? |
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Post by njdragon on Sept 10, 2013 12:35:53 GMT
Really??? We went on a 10 match record unbeaten run under hughes and very nearly qualified, can you see that with this regime? In fact the record of a new manager losing his first 5 games in charge was very nearly broken. Ok I didn't mention coleman in that coaching group, he may have been decent and i'd forgive him if he had the nouse to bring in some top coaches - but page, williams and symons certainly weren't top class players and while you can say that doesn't necessarily mean they will be bad coaches, give me the evidence where they have proved themselves? Last i heard williams was sacked at orient, symons was a scout at fulham and page was a coach at port vale. These are not the best qualified coaches we can get and what this generation of welsh footballers deserve. Of that 10 match record, how many were qualifiers? Other than Italy & Finland, how many were 'we have arrived' results? It's Wales we are talking about here, 10 matches unbeaten regardless of who it was against or if they were qualifiers or not. I remember a good few games under hughes we just looked class, 4-0 win against scotland, 4-0 win against azebaijan, wales 1-0 against Germany add them to the finland and italy results and thats not bad for Wales. I remembered a 1-0 win against canada at the racecourse and we just took the piss, giggs was superb - not the best result but we looked full of confidence. |
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Post by alarch on Sept 10, 2013 13:03:51 GMT
Hughes' reign was a mixed bag at best, but he did at least some great moments to treasure. As for Toshack, let's see...
I'm still struggling here...
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Post by toshfan on Sept 10, 2013 19:52:05 GMT
Hughes' reign was a mixed bag at best, but he did at least some great moments to treasure. As for Toshack, let's see... I'm still struggling here... Inherited a dreadful legacy Ended up and at em football Started the Youth Revolution Insisted on the appointment of Flynn Saved Welsh Football and gave it a future |
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