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Post by Deleted on Oct 1, 2013 14:08:31 GMT
What else are they going to say on record Baxter? come on baresi, is it that difficult for you to accept that perhaps the players do want to play for Coleman? As much as you hope that they don't it isn't that unreasonable to think he has their backing. As baxter points out the turnout has been consistently good for a while now (Collins excepted) Maybe they do like the guy and Coleman is a decent fella. He's just tactically inept at this level. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 1, 2013 14:30:05 GMT
Hughes and Speed were not good appointments on paper, they were lucky appointments. So you are saying that by definition the appointment of a manager to his first job cannot be a good appointment, only a lucky one. So it's not possible to spot a talent for management, to know someone's work and personality and to realise that first job or not, they would do a great job? So Barcelona appointing Pep Guardiola was not a good appointment. Mancini at Lazio. Martinez at Swansea. Etc. This is the FAW we are talking about, do you think they have any nous when it comes to picking a manager? What I am suggesting is that they picked Hughes and Speed more because they fit the FAW template rather than because they cast a shrewd eye over them and saw two managers who were likely to take us to a finals and they ended up getting lucky that both of them turned out to be decent. Even a stopped clock is right twice a day. Look at their other appointments, do you really think they went for Mike Smith, Bobby Gould, Flynn and Coleman because they seriously thought they could get us to a finals? |
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Post by squatter1 on Oct 1, 2013 14:56:11 GMT
So, a good decision becomes a bad decision if it is made by the FAW. Anything the FAW do, good or bad, is in fact bad. Way to logic!
Smith and Gould I do not defend. Are the people who made those decisions the same as appointed Hughes/Tosh/Speed etc? (I ask, I have no idea)
Flynn deserved a shot, which he got, and they didn't hire him, which was correct.
So thanks for reminding me, there's another decent decision they've made regarding managers. So the list is: Hughes/Toshack/Flynn/Speed/Coleman.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 1, 2013 15:24:20 GMT
So you are saying that by definition the appointment of a manager to his first job cannot be a good appointment, only a lucky one. So it's not possible to spot a talent for management, to know someone's work and personality and to realise that first job or not, they would do a great job? So Barcelona appointing Pep Guardiola was not a good appointment. Mancini at Lazio. Martinez at Swansea. Etc. This is the FAW we are talking about, do you think they have any nous when it comes to picking a manager? What I am suggesting is that they picked Hughes and Speed more because they fit the FAW template rather than because they cast a shrewd eye over them and saw two managers who were likely to take us to a finals and they ended up getting lucky that both of them turned out to be decent. Even a stopped clock is right twice a day. Look at their other appointments, do you really think they went for Mike Smith, Bobby Gould, Flynn and Coleman because they seriously thought they could get us to a finals? Looking at that list Storm you would think there was a deliberate agenda to keep us away from any finals |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 1, 2013 18:09:19 GMT
That's exactly how I see it baresi.
Regardless of how Hughes and Speed turned out, when they were taken on they were rookies and a hope for the best sort of appointment.
Where in that list of managers is the determination to qualify for a finals? Because I can't see it. It's a pretty poor list imo of people who are Welsh, possibly cheap and available at the time. It smacks of underachievement and contentment to go nowhere. It would be nice to see them , for once, go for someone who has proved they can do it at international level. But their recent history suggests the opposite. So why should it change now if they get rid of Coleman? It will be more of the same, convert another player into a manager and hope for the best, or scour the lower leagues for a welsh man who is about to get the sack and give him the top job.
If only they were as serious about hiring managers as they are about bidding for tournaments they have no chance of winning. It's amazing how professional they can be when there is a schmoozing opportunity up for grabs.
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Post by scoop76 on Oct 1, 2013 20:32:38 GMT
So you are saying that by definition the appointment of a manager to his first job cannot be a good appointment, only a lucky one. So it's not possible to spot a talent for management, to know someone's work and personality and to realise that first job or not, they would do a great job? So Barcelona appointing Pep Guardiola was not a good appointment. Mancini at Lazio. Martinez at Swansea. Etc. This is the FAW we are talking about, do you think they have any nous when it comes to picking a manager? What I am suggesting is that they picked Hughes and Speed more because they fit the FAW template rather than because they cast a shrewd eye over them and saw two managers who were likely to take us to a finals and they ended up getting lucky that both of them turned out to be decent. Even a stopped clock is right twice a day. Look at their other appointments, do you really think they went for Mike Smith, Bobby Gould, Flynn and Coleman because they seriously thought they could get us to a finals? The FAW certainly thought Mike Smith could get us to a finals because in his previous spell as manager we'd actually won our qualifying group. Smith remains the only Wales senior manager to win a qualifying group. But I agree with your analysis about Gould and Coleman - there were other factors behind those appointments. |
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Post by llannerch on Oct 2, 2013 11:59:38 GMT
come on baresi, is it that difficult for you to accept that perhaps the players do want to play for Coleman? As much as you hope that they don't it isn't that unreasonable to think he has their backing. As baxter points out the turnout has been consistently good for a while now (Collins excepted) Maybe they do like the guy and Coleman is a decent fella. He's just tactically inept at this level. I didn't say anything about them 'liking' Coleman. Rather that he has their backing, respect, call it what you will. That they appear to do, in my opinion, would surely be based on what they see and hear in camp and on the training pitch, including his tactics. Whether he is a nice chap, a good laugh, easy picking at cards or whatever qualities footballers like in someone probably doesn't figure that highly. |
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Post by llannerch on Oct 2, 2013 12:00:42 GMT
I'm Welsh and (very) cheap. I'll do the job
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Post by Deleted on Oct 2, 2013 22:38:09 GMT
They're speaking to Simon Davey to replace Coleman IF he has to go sorry Llannerch. |
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Post by flynnfan on Oct 3, 2013 12:16:11 GMT
..the Ramsey/Coleman irony..
is that with Bale, Allen, Ledley and probably Ashley Williams not available, the man who Coleman stripped of the capataincy will pretty much be the man charged with saving his job.
...the only way I can see us beating Macedonia is for Ramsey to have a stormer.
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Post by welshiron on Oct 3, 2013 12:20:55 GMT
I think your right, although I always thought he was too young to take on the captaincy.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 3, 2013 12:22:49 GMT
Ramsey won't be available......nobody from our top 6/7 players will be available.
that, to me, will be that.
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Post by welshiron on Oct 3, 2013 12:25:35 GMT
Belgium looks like it could be a massacre over there
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Post by squatter1 on Oct 3, 2013 12:28:49 GMT
Yes, interesting.
Coleman has reached make-or-break time, that's true.
Don't think we'll miss Ledley much, but if Bale, Allen, Joniesta, Collins and Ash Williams are out then our first 11 is in a dreadful state!
It will be interesting: will the remaining players give their all and pull it out of the bag to save Coleman's job? Or will we witness an embarrassing collapse?
As I've said before, the nightmare scenario is the one in between: they play just well enough to save Coleman's job, but not well enough to convince anyone that we will do well next campaign.
My message to the Welsh players: give us all, or nothing!
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Post by flynnfan on Oct 3, 2013 12:35:19 GMT
This team is capable of beating Macedonia at home:
...............Myhill
Matthews..Ricketts..Gabbidon..B Davies
..........King......Collison
...............Ramsey
Robson- Kanu.................Bellamy
...............Vokes
...but without Rambo? No chance. And Goodbye Chris.
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Post by abwales on Oct 3, 2013 13:12:15 GMT
Bellamy will be captain?
My message to the Welsh players: Lose and lose in style!
#fawreform
#crappycolemanout
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Post by Baxter Cymru on Oct 3, 2013 13:21:03 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Oct 3, 2013 13:23:53 GMT
Coleman is as good as gone, if anything we need a change simply because the injuries that Coleman has had have been beyond belief. Not only is he not the best manager, he also seems to be a jinx when it comes to the fitness of our players.
He seems to be a decent enough bloke though and his heart seems to be in the right place, so I can't bring myself to dislike him like the odious Toshack. He's just not up to it and hasn't been able to cover his deficiencies with a bit of luck.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 3, 2013 13:25:34 GMT
PLease can he take Symons, Page, Hartson, Williams, Bananaman and most of the FAW with him.
Bananaman- you got it totally fucking wrong as usual.
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Post by squatter1 on Oct 3, 2013 13:28:44 GMT
Fair play for admitting that staying on after the Finland game might not be the right thing to do, he has done his best but sadly it hasn't been good enough, i still like Coleman personally, hes a nice bloke but results just haven't been good enough. Of course if he wins the next 3 games Macedonia, Belgium and Finland then he should sign a new deal. Agree on all counts. |
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Post by welshiron on Oct 3, 2013 13:31:43 GMT
sounds like he is going to me, like Baxter I don't dislike him but the last few months we have become a laughing stock again.
Hopefully we have used up all our bad luck this campaign and the amount of injuries have to be considered when talking about his time in charge.
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Post by Baxter Cymru on Oct 3, 2013 13:34:54 GMT
I agree 100% i like the guy but maybe its time to go, only problem i have with this is that the FAW will go for the cheap option and again, changing the Manager might not improve anything!
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Post by welshiron on Oct 3, 2013 13:40:59 GMT
We need a change of luck as much as a change of manager. We could of had the best manager of all time but he would not have qualified from this group.
As I said on a previous thread the key quartet of Ramsey, Bale, Allen and Bellamy have only played together once in the qualifiers.
However, the hammerings against Serbia, Collinsgate, the Bale farce, the passport issue and choice of assistants mean he isn't the right man for the job.
The FAW will hope he goes after Finland as there will be no pay off and they won't need to pay a manger for 6 months
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Post by Deleted on Oct 3, 2013 15:14:13 GMT
I agree 100% i like the guy but maybe its time to go, only problem i have with this is that the FAW will go for the cheap option and again, changing the Manager might not improve anything! Spot on. You wait and see 5 games down the line... |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 3, 2013 15:16:52 GMT
We need a change of luck as much as a change of manager. We could of had the best manager of all time but he would not have qualified from this group. As I said on a previous thread the key quartet of Ramsey, Bale, Allen and Bellamy have only played together once in the qualifiers. However, the hammerings against Serbia, Collinsgate, the Bale farce, the passport issue and choice of assistants mean he isn't the right man for the job. The FAW will hope he goes after Finland as there will be no pay off and they won't need to pay a manger for 6 months A good summary, hard to disagree. And I say fair play to Coleman, too many managers lack that humility to know when it's just not working and stay on past their sell by date. He obviously has our best interests at heart and that is a credit to him, hope he managers to carve a managerial career out elsewhere. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 3, 2013 16:38:26 GMT
He will be without BALE, ALLEN, LEDLEY, JONIESTA, CROFTS and Probably A.WILLIAMS for our next 2 games  hardly fair to judge him on the next 2 games. Luck has seriously not been on Chris Coleman's side, ah well. I think our next 3 results (Macedonia, Belgium, Finland) will be: Draw, Lose, Win/Draw (depending on squad). Wales Wales Wales Wales!! |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 3, 2013 17:04:14 GMT
We need a change of luck as much as a change of manager. We could of had the best manager of all time but he would not have qualified from this group. As I said on a previous thread the key quartet of Ramsey, Bale, Allen and Bellamy have only played together once in the qualifiers. However, the hammerings against Serbia, Collinsgate, the Bale farce, the passport issue and choice of assistants mean he isn't the right man for the job. The FAW will hope he goes after Finland as there will be no pay off and they won't need to pay a manger for 6 months A good summary, hard to disagree. And I say fair play to Coleman, too many managers lack that humility to know when it's just not working and stay on past their sell by date. He obviously has our best interests at heart and that is a credit to him, hope he managers to carve a managerial career out elsewhere. Errrr.....no. Nobody wants to play for him anymore. he has been told his contract will not be renewed. But to save him some face the FAW have told him he can say 'the contract is still on the table but he probably won't sign' - nice and neat for both parties. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 3, 2013 17:32:00 GMT
A good summary, hard to disagree. And I say fair play to Coleman, too many managers lack that humility to know when it's just not working and stay on past their sell by date. He obviously has our best interests at heart and that is a credit to him, hope he managers to carve a managerial career out elsewhere. Errrr.....no. Nobody wants to play for him anymore. he has been told his contract will not be renewed. But to save him some face the FAW have told him he can say 'the contract is still on the table but he probably won't sign' - nice and neat for both parties. Nobody wants to play for him anymore? This isn't true except for James Collins. Out of interest, within the FAWs budget, realistically who do you think could come in and instantly take hold of the squad, win games and ultimately get us qualified for Euro 2016? |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 3, 2013 17:39:52 GMT
Why are they all pulling out of the squad then?
And i have not seen the budget so i can't tell you how much funds they have to commit. Anyway there are alwsys performance related bonuses.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 3, 2013 17:42:38 GMT
If you really want to achieve something you will find a way.
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hardly fair to judge him on the next 2 games.