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Post by toshfan on Nov 5, 2013 16:22:45 GMT
Also, it's daft as hell to buy into these 'we're behind the manager' reports from players. No it is not. No person on Apostle is as big a fan of what John Toshack did for Welsh Football as I am. Despite that I am objective enough to acknowledge that players were not making these type of statements when he was under attack. The comments & support from players, therefore, does matter. Chris Coleman does have the dressing room. |
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Post by welshwizard79 on Nov 5, 2013 16:55:10 GMT
Cookie on his way
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Post by njdragon on Nov 5, 2013 17:12:01 GMT
Also, it's daft as hell to buy into these 'we're behind the manager' reports from players. No it is not. No person on Apostle is as big a fan of what John Toshack did for Welsh Football as I am. Despite that I am objective enough to acknowledge that players were not making these type of statements when he was under attack. The comments & support from players, therefore, does matter. Chris Coleman does have the dressing room. Ashley williams made a statement in support of Tosh before he went. A journalist asks a player if he supports his manager... they either say nothing hence no story or they say they are behind them. The majority of the players may very well like Coleman, he comes across as a nice enough bloke. |
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Post by Tim P on Nov 5, 2013 17:23:34 GMT
The majority of the players may very well like Coleman, he comes across as a nice enough bloke. Exactly. They may well like him and don't want to basically advocate him losing his job - but does that mean he's any good? Not really. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 5, 2013 17:28:08 GMT
There may be trouble ahead. There is a natural assumption that should Coleman leave things can only get better. I am not sure, when was the last time a new Wales manager came in and won games straight off the bat without an excruciating settling in period? Even so, that aside, I worry about who will be next through the door. At this point in time our best hope is Bellamy and some cheap assortment of lackeys. Can't knock the bloke for his commitment and if he does get it I hope he does the business, but just at the point when we have two world class talents in Bellamy and Ramsey the FAW, should they be in the market for a new manager, should be going for the best they can possibly get. If Bellamy is the leading candidate then that tells me everything about how inadequate the FAW are to govern Welsh football. Given what has been said about Ford wanting to install Ian Rush I am truly terrified about what might be coming next.... |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 5, 2013 18:25:47 GMT
I'd lose a lot of respect for Coleman if he goes.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 5, 2013 18:31:32 GMT
I honestly think it's a disaster if he goes, FAW should be doing everything to try and get him to stay. Everything fits in well for Euro 2016 IF he stays.
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Post by Tim P on Nov 5, 2013 18:34:09 GMT
I honestly think it's a disaster if he goes, FAW should be doing everything to try and get him to stay. Everything fits in well for Euro 2016 IF he stays. What makes you think this? |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 5, 2013 18:52:29 GMT
I honestly think it's a disaster if he goes, FAW should be doing everything to try and get him to stay. Everything fits in well for Euro 2016 IF he stays. What makes you think this? Ok disaster is over the top actually, because our group of players are good enough to get us qualified even with a new manager, especially considering there are more teams qualifying. BUT I just feel that there is no better manager out there to come in, why change it now if it isn't broken? continuity, 1 or 2 positive friendlies and we'll be in a good position going into Euro 2016. Bellamy would be a big risk, IMO. |
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Post by abwales on Nov 5, 2013 19:04:07 GMT
I honestly think it's a disaster if he stays. The FAW should be paying palace money for them to take him from us. I'd have loads of respect for Coleman if he went for palace. The fact he's clearly interested in the job speaks volumes. If he was confident that he'd get us qualified why would he even consider the palace job when he'd be in line for a bigger one after euro 2016.
If he stays we'll hear the same excuses and see the same level of performances and waste our biggest chance for years.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 5, 2013 19:13:37 GMT
What makes you think this? Ok disaster is over the top actually, because our group of players are good enough to get us qualified even with a new manager, especially considering there are more teams qualifying. BUT I just feel that there is no better manager out there to come in, why change it now if it isn't broken? continuity, 1 or 2 positive friendlies and we'll be in a good position going into Euro 2016. Bellamy would be a big risk, IMO. We need to take a big risk. We always play safe and it gets us nowhere. The bigger the risk the bigger the reward. Its not that big a risk anyway if bellamy reinstates the previous regime. I would like to see coleman succeed at palace if he got the job. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 5, 2013 19:47:26 GMT
No we don't what's the point when we're playing well now?? I don't see why Bellamy would be a good manager? certainly a lot of the players were saying how much of a great example he's been to his country so the majority probably get along with him I guess. Coleman will stay  |
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Post by welshwizard79 on Nov 5, 2013 20:19:24 GMT
I think we may be forgetting that Coleman could have decided he wants to leave and it's not the FAW getting shot of him but him going to a premier league club instead of signing a new contract.
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Post by welshwizard79 on Nov 5, 2013 20:23:41 GMT
There may be trouble ahead. There is a natural assumption that should Coleman leave things can only get better. I am not sure, when was the last time a new Wales manager came in and won games straight off the bat without an excruciating settling in period? Even so, that aside, I worry about who will be next through the door. At this point in time our best hope is Bellamy and some cheap assortment of lackeys. Can't knock the bloke for his commitment and if he does get it I hope he does the business, but just at the point when we have two world class talents in Bellamy and Ramsey the FAW, should they be in the market for a new manager, should be going for the best they can possibly get. If Bellamy is the leading candidate then that tells me everything about how inadequate the FAW are to govern Welsh football. Given what has been said about Ford wanting to install Ian Rush I am truly terrified about what might be coming next.... I agree and the only way I can see us avoiding the painful bedding in period would be for the FAW to appoint an experienced former international manager. Sadly this won't happen. |
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Post by yanto on Nov 5, 2013 20:27:20 GMT
not the right time for Bellers - stick with cookie and it'll work out IMO. Continuity is the key to progress. If cookie goes then all the moaners on here will just start the same moan about the next manager - regardless of who it is. Feckin' moaners!!
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Post by Deleted on Nov 5, 2013 20:28:15 GMT
No we don't what's the point when we're playing well now?? I don't see why Bellamy would be a good manager? certainly a lot of the players were saying how much of a great example he's been to his country so the majority probably get along with him I guess. Coleman will stay Is this the same Bellamy who the young players were terrified of for his harassment of them when try made a mistake during the Tosh years? He may have grown up a bit since then, but I don't understand what this fetish is with rookie managers being given the Wales job to cut their teeth. It smacks of the Faw themselves not even taking the job seriously. We have an opportunity to replace Coleman with an experienced, quality manager and make a real statement of intent and the biggest we can think is Bellamy and possibly Dutch Ray. The talent of Bale and Ramsey deserve bigger investment and greater ambition than a guy who might/might not come good. We missed out on Lagerback and look what he has achieved since then- that should be proof enough to stop pissing about with speculative punts and get in a proven manager who knows qualification inside and out. |
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Post by Baxter Cymru on Nov 5, 2013 20:33:53 GMT
not the right time for Bellers - stick with cookie and it'll work out IMO. Continuity is the key to progress. If cookie goes then all the moaners on here will just start the same moan about the next manager - regardless of who it is. Feckin' moaners!! agree |
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Post by biwmares on Nov 5, 2013 20:38:08 GMT
I think we may be forgetting that Coleman could have decided he wants to leave and it's not the FAW getting shot of him but him going to a premier league club instead of signing a new contract. He did say a few months back that he misses club management |
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Post by abwales on Nov 5, 2013 20:47:07 GMT
WE ONLY PLAYED WELL AGAINST BELGIUM!!!!!! IN A DEAD RUBBER!!!!! IN THE LAST GAME OF THE CAMPAIGN WHEN WE WERE LONG OUT OF IT AFTER TERRIBLE PREVIOUS RESULTS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! WE WOULD NOT HAVE GOT THAT RESULT WHEN THE RESULTS ACTUALLY MATTERED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I completely agree with you Baresi. The only experienced Welsh managers we can afford are guaranteed complete failures like Coleman and we won't go foreign SO WE HAVE TO GO FOR A RISK.
Bellamy or Giggs. #SAVEUS #CRAPPYCOLEMANOUT
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Post by Baxter Cymru on Nov 5, 2013 20:59:07 GMT
Giggs save us hahahahahahaaa!!
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Post by dai on Nov 6, 2013 10:43:52 GMT
Also, it's daft as hell to buy into these 'we're behind the manager' reports from players. No it is not. No person on Apostle is as big a fan of what John Toshack did for Welsh Football as I am. Despite that I am objective enough to acknowledge that players were not making these type of statements when he was under attack. The comments & support from players, therefore, does matter. Chris Coleman does have the dressing room. Yes it is daft. The only times when it looked like the players wanted to play for Coleman was during the last two games. And bar the scotland games, we have hardly looked like a side eager to perform and impress their manager. But I acknowledge that's no excuse for the crappy displays. I appreciate whats being said if players are not behind the manager then it's a non story, but from past evidence of performances it's evident somethings not right. Still on the fence whether I want him to stay or not. |
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Post by toshfan on Nov 6, 2013 11:18:47 GMT
No it is not. No person on Apostle is as big a fan of what John Toshack did for Welsh Football as I am. Despite that I am objective enough to acknowledge that players were not making these type of statements when he was under attack. The comments & support from players, therefore, does matter. Chris Coleman does have the dressing room. Yes it is daft. The only times when it looked like the players wanted to play for Coleman was during the last two games. And bar the scotland games, we have hardly looked like a side eager to perform and impress their manager. But I acknowledge that's no excuse for the crappy displays. I appreciate whats being said if players are not behind the manager then it's a non story, but from past evidence of performances it's evident somethings not right. Still on the fence whether I want him to stay or not. So we should ignore what the players are saying? That, with respect, is daft. |
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Post by dai on Nov 6, 2013 11:32:18 GMT
You can choose to ignore it, or choose to believe it. I'm choosing not to take such stories seriously anymore.
The media and sportsmen are full of nonsense these days. Take Brendan Rodgers for example, a few weeks before he switched to Liverpool he claimed how happy and focused he was on the Swansea job, and he was intent on staying. Then he f*cked off.
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Post by texan on Nov 6, 2013 11:57:08 GMT
If players knew what was best for them, they'd organise themselves on the pitch without the need for anyone at the helm, but invariably they don't and they can't.
A player's loyalty isn't an automatic indicator of managerial competence. A team can be 100% supportive of their manager, ready to sweat blood for him and think he's the nicest bloke they've ever met...but it still doesn't mean he isn't limited, or that he's capable of arranging them in the most effective way or elevating them to the next level, or that there may be someone better suited to their needs out there somewhere.
For certain, its important to have a settled, unified squad fully behind their manager and pulling in the same direction, but it'll only work if the manager himself knows where he wants to take them and how to get there. The pundits currently demanding continuity is all well and good, but continuity of 'what' is the key question...a manager who means well but doesn't really have the capability to further develop this squad? A team flip-flopping for a further two years between good and poor performances as he struggles to figure out what to do with them?
Or...we wipe the slate clean now, shake hands and say thanks for leading us through a horribly difficult period, get someone in who knows how to play an advanced passing game and how to utilize that type of player, give him 2/3rds of 2014 to arrange the team in friendles and, fingers crossed, be ready to hit the ground running come September.
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Post by alarch on Nov 6, 2013 12:22:52 GMT
Agree 100% Texan. Basically, we can stick with a decent but limited manager, or follow the riskier route of making a new appointment. On balance, I think we should follow the latter route - but we need to have a good idea of who is available and affordable in advance.
Out of interest, how can the FAI afford to pay O'Neill and Keane - they must be on a fair whack. Do they continue to have support from the business community? If so, is there no one in Wales who could help the national cause? With the likes of Bale and Ramsey it couldn't be bad for a business to associate its brand with that sort of top-notch quality.
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Post by squatter1 on Nov 6, 2013 13:09:55 GMT
I'm so jealous of the O'Neil/Keane appointment.
Both of them have managed in the Premiership - one of them successfully for years, and nearly won European silverware. And both Irish (even if O'Neil from the annexed part of the island)
I can't think of what combination would get us even close that involves Welshmen.
Toshack/Hughes? (of course never gonna happen but hey)
Hughes/Bellamy (no where near the management experience/success of O'Neil/Keane)
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Post by Tim P on Nov 6, 2013 13:15:14 GMT
I'm so jealous of the O'Neil/Keane appointment. Both of them have managed in the Premiership - one of them successfully for years, and nearly won European silverware. And both Irish (even if O'Neil from the annexed part of the island) I can't think of what combination would get us even close that involves Welshmen. Toshack/Hughes? (of course never gonna happen but hey) Hughes/Bellamy (no where near the management experience/success of O'Neil/Keane) True, but both O'Neil and Keane are coming off failures. Can they work together? Has O'Neil still got it? Neither are trainers/coaches, who will do the coaching? A lot of questions to be answered on this one. |
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Post by toshfan on Nov 6, 2013 13:15:17 GMT
I am not jealous as I expect that the model will be all about passion, hardwork and a strong tight unit. All credible and honourable attributes but it is a British model that is not sustainable in Continental football. The fans will be happy, will not complain about the effort, there will be some outstanding results (particularly at home) but they will not qualify for tournaments. You heard it here first  As for the partnerships, my view is that there needs to be a clear Manager who has a backroom team dedicated to specific tasks. If we get a new manager, he needs to bring in someone who will assist in making us harder to beat but without disturbing our trajectory (it possession football). |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 6, 2013 13:26:50 GMT
The emperor's new clothes this is - Keane was a laughing stock as a manager a few months back and now all of a sudden hes a credible appointment?
MON seems to have got progressively worse as a manager, having Keane as his assistant is pretty bizarre given the kind of character that he is and given Keane's history with the FAI, walking out of world cups I am surprised he has been welcomed back. The equivalent for us would be Hughes or Pulis with Giggs as assistant - a journeyman manager with an understudy who has treated his country like shit.
I would not be too overwhelmed by MON and Keane for Wales, we should be aiming higher.
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Post by welshiron on Nov 6, 2013 13:31:16 GMT
For me we have 2 choices
1. Coleman to stay, with a new assistant
2. An experienced international manager
All we need is to be tight and organised at the back and let Ramsey & Bale win the games. Simples.
Trappatoni or Sven anyone
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