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Post by erasedcitizen on Oct 9, 2017 21:40:04 GMT
Actually, I've just looked at the comment I posted earlier where I was saying Coleman should stay and not go. I guess one result affects your thinking more than you realise, lol. It does when it's do or die. |
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Post by erasedcitizen on Oct 9, 2017 21:40:42 GMT
Amended my post as soon as I hit post. I thought it was a sarcastic post! |
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Post by texan on Oct 9, 2017 21:42:09 GMT
Anyway - its all over. We weren't good enough. Goodness it does not matter if the teams are fantastic or mediocre - why do we always bottle the big all or nothing qualification games? I don't think it was a case of bottling it. If it was we'd have bottled Austria or Georgia. We just came up against a very poor ref, an injury to 2 of our 3 most influential players, and a goal arguably against the run of play. The performance wasn't terrible. I'll swap your 'arguably' for 'completely' against the run of play. We can play much, much better than we did tonight, however having said that we were nowhere near as bad as some suggest, we were ok, we played by far the better football on the night. The Irish created nothing, the goal was given to them, type of defensive error not seen since the away match v Austria. They won we didn't, fair play, shit happens...we're still moving forward! Cadwch y ffydd 'ogia! |
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Post by saints19 on Oct 9, 2017 21:42:25 GMT
Every single player on the park for Wales when Bodin hit the bar were top division players. We started with four championship players tonight, and ended with five. You call yourself Rushlegend - did you ever see him play? Are you 12? There were more Championship players playing for Ireland tonight so that doesn't cut the mustard!!! Wish i was 12 again  Look at the match stats, we had 72% of possession and double their efforts on goal and on target. Normally we would win that game. The idea we 'bottled' it is nonsense. We're the better team, it just wasn't reflected in the scoreline tonight. |
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Post by jono on Oct 9, 2017 21:45:31 GMT
Must go now. He'll go down as a legend but negative dog muck in a must win game is sickening. Back and too across the back 4 all game. Unforgivable.
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Post by saints19 on Oct 9, 2017 21:45:41 GMT
Amended my post as soon as I hit post. I thought it was a sarcastic post! Well, Sparky's tenure with us might have been judged a relative success, but the truth is he still failed to qualify, something which Coleman did manage to do. It wasn't sarcastic and I don't think he'd be a terrible appointment, but I would prefer someone like O'Neill or Lagerback if they were interested. I believe in principle international football should mean the manager is of that country, but the rules are what they are, so we should consider all candidates. |
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Post by pendragon on Oct 9, 2017 21:54:13 GMT
Coleman got Wales this far. We would only have dreamt of being on the cusp of qualification a decade ago.
Now that we've had time to reflect, we need to take the positives from this. This is the "Golden generation", no doubt about it. And how many times have some teams struggled to repeat their successes, even after being declared World Champions?
I do feel where Coleman went wrong perhaps was the earlier stage of this campaign - too many "could have beens" and settling for a point here and there. That really cost us although I do feel he managed to get back on track in the second half of the campaign.
But other things were out of our control. The foul play exhibited in this match merited a red card in my opinion which broke up the momentum - that sort of thing should be looked at.
We still need to be proud of this team AND their manager going forward but should we really overlook his huge success due to this run?
Who would be in the running to replace him? Giggs? Whoever carries on needs to rebuild the momentum.
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Post by saints19 on Oct 9, 2017 22:00:37 GMT
We were pretty close at critical times. The amount of shots we hit the woodwork with or went close with through Bale when we could have scored (Serbia home just before the equaliser, ROI away with that long range thunderbolt), was remarkable.
The injuries at key times, possible tactical mistakes (Georgia home for instance). We could have made the play offs already if we'd beaten Georgia and a 1-0 win for ROI tonight.
Probably the Georgia draw on reflection where we lost it most.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 9, 2017 22:01:05 GMT
Some strong opinions. My instinct is that he will walk at the end of his contract. The West Brom chairman will be on speed dial.
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Post by rushlegend on Oct 9, 2017 22:02:16 GMT
Exactly jono - Gunter has been a liability for some time - backwards only player
Boring to watch with the talent we have at our disposal!!!
Need a fresh manager who has got better tactics than Coleman - this will be a blessing in disguise if he goes - Please!!!!
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Post by conwy10 on Oct 9, 2017 22:04:00 GMT
I thought it was a sarcastic post! Well, Sparky's tenure with us might have been judged a relative success, but the truth is he still failed to qualify, something which Coleman did manage to do. It wasn't sarcastic and I don't think he'd be a terrible appointment, but I would prefer someone like O'Neill or Lagerback if they were interested. I believe in principle international football should mean the manager is of that country, but the rules are what they are, so we should consider all candidates. The next manager needs to buy into the direction we're going in, not alter it. Probably the only person it can be is Carl Robinson. I was thinking watching the Ireland match how awful we are at set pieces, probably the greatest set piece coach in the premier league is Welsh, Tony Pulis. I'd hate to see Pulis as manager but can we not work with him to sort out our set pieces? Bring him into our training camps as an advisor. |
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Post by texan on Oct 9, 2017 22:06:28 GMT
Well, Sparky's tenure with us might have been judged a relative success, but the truth is he still failed to qualify, something which Coleman did manage to do. It wasn't sarcastic and I don't think he'd be a terrible appointment, but I would prefer someone like O'Neill or Lagerback if they were interested. I believe in principle international football should mean the manager is of that country, but the rules are what they are, so we should consider all candidates. The next manager needs to buy into the direction we're going in, not alter it. Probably the only person it can be is Carl Robinson. I was thinking watching the Ireland match how awful we are at set pieces, probably the greatest set piece coach in the premier league is Welsh, Tony Pulis. I'd hate to see Pulis as manager but can we not work with him to sort out our set pieces? Bring him into our training camps as an advisor. Carl Robinson is an excellent shout for future manager. |
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Post by saints19 on Oct 9, 2017 22:10:39 GMT
Well, Sparky's tenure with us might have been judged a relative success, but the truth is he still failed to qualify, something which Coleman did manage to do. It wasn't sarcastic and I don't think he'd be a terrible appointment, but I would prefer someone like O'Neill or Lagerback if they were interested. I believe in principle international football should mean the manager is of that country, but the rules are what they are, so we should consider all candidates. The next manager needs to buy into the direction we're going in, not alter it. Probably the only person it can be is Carl Robinson. I was thinking watching the Ireland match how awful we are at set pieces, probably the greatest set piece coach in the premier league is Welsh, Tony Pulis. I'd hate to see Pulis as manager but can we not work with him to sort out our set pieces? Bring him into our training camps as an advisor. The next manager needs to work with our players and find a direction that will enable us to win. The direction we're going in has worked to an extent but has its limitations. Even with Allen injured there was enough quality out there to score a couple tonight. Alright on another day Hal would've scored one but considering our dominance we didn't create enough clear scoring chances. Go for experience - surely our profile is high enough to get an experienced, proven international coach in at this point? |
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Post by playslikeiniesta on Oct 9, 2017 22:22:24 GMT
At the end of the day, Ireland who are the worst footballing side I've seen at the CCS over the last two campaigns (Moldova & Georgia were genuinely technically better footballing teams, would anyone disagree?) have beaten us 1-0 at home in a must win World Cup qualifying game. We needed to win this game and we never looked like scoring at any point in 90+ minutes at home against a bunch of journeymen. Proud of how far we have come and what we have done over the last two canpaigns!! But questions do have to be asked about tactics, mentally and team selection. For example how is Andy King starting as he is always anonymous. Equally as much of an example, how is Ramsey such a disappointment in games he should be the main man/clutch performer? Fans were amazing as always!! Proud of the team and will always back them and give them my full support! Just something about tonight was missing and has left a sour taste in my mouth (not just the losing, the way it happened). I respect Coleman for everything he has done for us but he has probably taken us as far as we can go now. He does deserve credit! If we had Martin O'Neill and Roy Keane on our side tonight however, I guarantee we would have won 1-0. Food for thought.
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Post by bluephill on Oct 9, 2017 22:23:59 GMT
I was very surprised and a bit disappointed that Coleman didn't come over and clap the fans, given it was the end of the campaign. In fact other than Gunter (legend) and Vokes no one really made much effort at all to acknowledge the supporters.
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Post by quetzal on Oct 9, 2017 22:25:32 GMT
I was right in line with Ash and he was calling for it. We can't blame Hennessy on this one |
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Post by larslagerback on Oct 9, 2017 22:26:23 GMT
Wonder if Lagerback would go for it again? I think we missed a trick not getting him, although obviously Coleman has done more than adequately. After a poor campaign Norway are getting their shit together now and look a decent team. Hiya! |
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Post by ae15 on Oct 9, 2017 22:26:32 GMT
Ancelotti in 😂
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Post by saints19 on Oct 9, 2017 22:26:41 GMT
At the end of the day, Ireland who are the worst footballing side I've seen at the CCS over the last two campaigns (Moldova & Georgia were genuinely technically better footballing teams, would anyone disagree?) have beaten us 1-0 at home in a must win World Cup qualifying game. We needed to win this game and we never looked like scoring at any point in 90+ minutes at home against a bunch of journeymen. Proud of how far we have come and what we have done over the last two canpaigns!! But questions do have to be asked about tactics, mentally and team selection. For example how is Andy King starting as he is always anonymous. Equally as much of an example, how is Ramsey such a disappointment in games he should be the main man/clutch performer? Fans were amazing as always!! Proud of the team and will always back them and give them my full support! Just something about tonight was missing and has left a sour taste in my mouth (not just the losing, the way it happened). I respect Coleman for everything he has done for us but he has probably taken us as far as we can go now. He does deserve credit! If we had Martin O'Neill and Roy Keane on our side tonight however, I guarantee we would have won 1-0. Food for thought. Agree with some part of that but not all. ROI are probably the worst or second-worst side technically in the group - but they are physically much more imposing than Moldova or Georgia. Technique is obviously not the only thing and that's why they get the results they do. Obviously the ref had a big part to play too. I don't think there were any clear red cards but there was at least 3-4 yellows and a lot of really, really blatant timewasting - and persistent targeting of Allen. You can't really legislate for that. We did look like scoring on a couple of occasions, HRK headed a chance at the far post, if he;d gone the other side he may have beaten Randolph. |
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Post by saints19 on Oct 9, 2017 22:28:23 GMT
We're f*cked if he goes - big problems at CB without him and Chester. Obviously hope he stays for at least one more campaign. |
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Post by alarch on Oct 9, 2017 22:28:37 GMT
Coleman has been superb, that has to be said first and foremost. Our defensive organisation has improved immensely under Coleman, and turning Ledley into a dedicated holding midfield player - allowing Allen to get forward more was a stroke of genius. Team spirit and togetherness has never been better. But there are clear and unmistakeable probelms offensively. We managed fewer than 1 goal per game against the strongest four teams in our group - and that is nowhere near good enough.
Coleman made some radical changes following the last World Cup campaign and reaped the rewards. The defensive changes were essential, but he's deviated too far from the Speed model. His decision to start Andy King in both of the last matches, over Jonny Williams (the only Welsh player all night to produce a top notch "assist"), says so much about his muddled philosophy.
The biggest problem with Coleman going is recruiting a replacement who could do any better. I'm not sure there is anybody out there who is affordable and of the requisite quality. If we go down the Pulis route it would be a crime against football, and would be an utter waste of the talent at our disposal. I would much rather taking a gamble on someone like Cameron Toshack than appoint a manager who ignores the talent in our squad and persists with mediocre footballers.
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Post by cymroircarn on Oct 9, 2017 22:28:46 GMT
Push the boat out and get Sparky. Are you drunk? |
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Post by saints19 on Oct 9, 2017 22:29:43 GMT
Wonder if Lagerback would go for it again? I think we missed a trick not getting him, although obviously Coleman has done more than adequately. After a poor campaign Norway are getting their shit together now and look a decent team. Hiya! If that really is you then you need to apply through the FAW, faw.org.uk. We look forward to receiving your application, let's hope they don't put it in the shredder. Assuming there will be a vacancy obviously. |
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Post by alarch on Oct 9, 2017 22:36:59 GMT
Yet more weak refereeing tonight - how McClean didn't pick up at least two yellow cards was beyond belief - especially that cynical barge right at the end.
But for me the biggest factor in our defeat was fatigue. We started so brightly, but even before Ireland scored you could see the likes of Davies, Williams, Ramsey, Ledley and King flagging. It probably played a big part in the goal - both Williams and Davies were so leaden-footed, especially Williams who was so slow to get to the byeline to attempt to block the cross. Vokes had the least game-time out in Georgia - and yet he was the only change in the starting line-up. I'm afraid that was a massive cock-up on Coleman's part.
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Post by conwy10 on Oct 9, 2017 22:43:28 GMT
The next manager needs to buy into the direction we're going in, not alter it. Probably the only person it can be is Carl Robinson. I was thinking watching the Ireland match how awful we are at set pieces, probably the greatest set piece coach in the premier league is Welsh, Tony Pulis. I'd hate to see Pulis as manager but can we not work with him to sort out our set pieces? Bring him into our training camps as an advisor. The next manager needs to work with our players and find a direction that will enable us to win. The direction we're going in has worked to an extent but has its limitations. Even with Allen injured there was enough quality out there to score a couple tonight. Alright on another day Hal would've scored one but considering our dominance we didn't create enough clear scoring chances. Go for experience - surely our profile is high enough to get an experienced, proven international coach in at this point? I don't think we're gifted in attack. I'll be harsh Vokes and Robson Kanu aren't good enough but we haven't got anyone else. Take the players around him away from Ramsey and he tries so hard he's terrible. Lawrence except for link up play hasn't been good, the goal against Georgia was more down to bad goalkeeping. Possibly we could get an experienced coach, people might disagree with me but I think we're one of the best in the world at producing coaches, we need to buy into that system. Anybody we bring in could disrupt the link we have between the national team and growing wealth of knowledge the FAW is collecting. I would definitely go for Carl Robinson but beyond that I would want someone FAW trained. Possible names could be Thierry Henry and Jens Lehmann. Osian Roberts has worked with some top names before mentoring them on their courses. |
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Post by saints19 on Oct 9, 2017 22:47:57 GMT
HRK is a great player to have but admittedly can't score goals from nothing in every game. We do need a better option than Vokes. However apart from centre-forward we have players in midfield and on the wing who should be able to create chances for even journeymen to score.
Maybe we need to look at being more of counter attacking team, maybe teams will be less respectful in the next qualifiers since we finished 3rd this time, who knows.
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Post by alarch on Oct 9, 2017 22:55:18 GMT
If we'd got the early goal, when we were on top it would have been such a different game. But instead of having players with the technical ability, freshness, and ability to play the swift one-two combinations, such as Woodburn or Joniesta, we include Andy King, in front of Gunter. Good grief. We didn't deserve to win by putting out such a negative line-up when we have far better options available. Up to the game Joniesta was a serious threat - and his cross for HRKs header was out of the top drawer - by far the best piece of play from a Welsh player all night. He should have started - end of.
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Post by toshfan on Oct 9, 2017 23:04:00 GMT
I thought it was a sarcastic post! Well, Sparky's tenure with us might have been judged a relative success I will note who makes such a judgement and struggle to take anything else they say about football seriously. |
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Post by toshfan on Oct 9, 2017 23:05:32 GMT
This thread is making me as sad as I felt at the final whistle. I find the title puzzling.
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Post by saints19 on Oct 9, 2017 23:06:59 GMT
Well, Sparky's tenure with us might have been judged a relative success I will note who makes such a judgement and struggle to take anything else they say about football seriously. Without going into an argument on tonight of all nights, can you really say that using the term 'relative success' to describe Hughes' reign is anything but serious? I'd say that's the exact term to use, given that we ultimately failed to qualify but did achieve a long unbeaten run, came close to qualifying and restored pride? |
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