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Post by toshfan on Oct 9, 2017 23:12:19 GMT
I will note who makes such a judgement and struggle to take anything else they say about football seriously. Without going into an argument on tonight of all nights, can you really say that using the term 'relative success' to describe Hughes' reign is anything but serious? I'd say that's the exact term to use, given that we ultimately failed to qualify but did achieve a long unbeaten run, came close to qualifying and restored pride? If some people on this thread get their way, and if various interclub rivalry people on twitter get their way, in seeing the end of Chris Coleman as our manager he will not leave a Welsh Football nation heading for its knees. I respect you and I respect your objectivity but I cannot agree with your summary. |
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Post by saints19 on Oct 9, 2017 23:15:44 GMT
We'll have to agree to differ, personally I think whoever leaves the role when Bale, Ramsey and Allen all retire will probably be accused of 'leaving Welsh football heading for its knees'. Not a lot any manager can do if the quality players aren't there. Hughes played the best players he had whilst we had a realistic hope of qualifying, Toshack had the luxury of expectations being so low he could go with kids although even then we still had players like Bellamy, Giggs and Koumas around them.
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Post by toshfan on Oct 9, 2017 23:28:39 GMT
We'll have to agree to differ, personally I think whoever leaves the role when Bale, Ramsey and Allen all retire will probably be accused of 'leaving Welsh football heading for its knees'. I am sure that we can revisit this claim at the time. I do not think that it will happen. Whilst three crucial players, player development has been prioritised since the Toshack years, continued by Speedo and Coleman. We are better for it. Was u21 football taken seriously during the Sparky years? Beyond player development, whilst fans are entitled to be frustrated and even have the right to be critical of tactics from Chris Coleman at least we have a sustainable brand of football for the international scene. Whether Chris Coleman continues (I hope he does) or leaves, the baseline is a decent one. |
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Post by quetzal on Oct 9, 2017 23:32:03 GMT
We'll have to agree to differ, personally I think whoever leaves the role when Bale, Ramsey and Allen all retire will probably be accused of 'leaving Welsh football heading for its knees'. I am sure that we can revisit this claim at the time. I do not think that it will happen. Whilst three crucial parents, player development has been prioritised since the Toshack years, continued by Speedo and Coleman. We are better for it. Was u21 football taken seriously during the Sparky years? Beyond player development, whilst fans are entitled to be frustrated and even have the right to be critical of tactics from Chris Coleman at least we have a sustainable brand of football for the international scene. Whether Chris Coleman continues (I hope he does) or leaves, the baseline is a decent one. I agree with everything you've said there Toshfan. It's time to go to bed guys. Lets have a night off this. Leave it til the morning |
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Post by conwy10 on Oct 9, 2017 23:52:25 GMT
If we'd got the early goal, when we were on top it would have been such a different game. But instead of having players with the technical ability, freshness, and ability to play the swift one-two combinations, such as Woodburn or Joniesta, we include Andy King, in front of Gunter. Good grief. We didn't deserve to win by putting out such a negative line-up when we have far better options available. Up to the game Joniesta was a serious threat - and his cross for HRKs header was out of the top drawer - by far the best piece of play from a Welsh player all night. He should have started - end of. I can never quite figure out Jonny Williams and Wales. He gives everything he's got, he's fast, fearless, creates chances, can turn in the blink of an eye, even puts himself into tackles a lad of his size shouldn't. He's got everything that should fit perfectly into our Wales team but for some reason there doesn't seem to be a place for him. The coaching staff must see something but I can't put my finger on it. |
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Post by zenith on Oct 9, 2017 23:54:47 GMT
I think his time is up but is there anyone really ready to replace him?
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Post by Deleted on Oct 10, 2017 1:39:38 GMT
Coleman in.
Anyone can be a genius with hindsight. We were outstanding until Allen went off. All his choices were logical tonight and before tonight. The stars aligned for Ireland who were no way worth four points over two games. Allen and Bale have been our two mercurial players over the past half decade. To lose both for this decisive game is plain horrendous luck. We are a group that thrives on pulling ourselves up out of adversity, so let's stick together.
Coleman in.
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Post by maccatac on Oct 10, 2017 1:45:18 GMT
Every single player on the park for Wales when Bodin hit the bar were top division players. We started with four championship players tonight, and ended with five. You call yourself Rushlegend - did you ever see him play? Are you 12? There were more Championship players playing for Ireland tonight so that doesn't cut the mustard!!! Wish i was 12 again  More championship players starting for Ireland only because of our injury concerns. Throw in McCarthy, Long, Coleman, Walters and possibly Elliot when all fit. |
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Post by maccatac on Oct 10, 2017 1:51:41 GMT
Every single player on the park for Wales when Bodin hit the bar were top division players. We started with four championship players tonight, and ended with five. You call yourself Rushlegend - did you ever see him play? Are you 12? There were more Championship players playing for Ireland tonight so that doesn't cut the mustard!!! Wish i was 12 again More championship players starting for Ireland only because of our injury concerns. Throw in McCarthy, Long, Coleman, Walters and possibly Elliot when all fit. You should keep Coleman. But I don't see the point in playing this redundant possession football Wales play. You don't have the players, might as well find a balance between possession and direct. |
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Post by bale-droed on Oct 10, 2017 2:33:47 GMT
There's one man who should be next manager and one man only. A man who the players love
OSian roberts
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Post by cadno on Oct 10, 2017 6:54:00 GMT
Coleman should absolutely stay IMO.
If he does leave what options do we have?!
Lars Lagerback? Think he's managing Norway.
Bellamy/Giggs - no thanks.
Robinson - dont think he'd be as affective as cookie for euro 2020.
We need to freshen things up a bit, but dont need cookie to leave, it wouldn't make sense.
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Post by quetzal on Oct 10, 2017 7:31:31 GMT
Coleman should absolutely stay IMO. If he does leave what options do we have?! Lars Lagerback? Think he's managing Norway. Bellamy/Giggs - no thanks. Robinson - dont think he'd be as affective as cookie for euro 2020. We need to freshen things up a bit, but dont need cookie to leave, it wouldn't make sense. I wasn't Coleman's greatest fan at the start but I want him to stay. We did not even get to the last game for a couple of decades. |
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Post by cymroircarn on Oct 10, 2017 8:00:18 GMT
Coleman should absolutely stay IMO. If he does leave what options do we have?! Lars Lagerback? Think he's managing Norway. Bellamy/Giggs - no thanks. Robinson - dont think he'd be as affective as cookie for euro 2020. We need to freshen things up a bit, but dont need cookie to leave, it wouldn't make sense. I wasn't Coleman's greatest fan at the start but I want him to stay. We did not even get to the last game for a couple of decades. Exactly. This is perspective. Another 2 years and then let's re-asses again. |
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Post by eppingblue on Oct 10, 2017 8:04:01 GMT
Coleman should absolutely stay IMO. If he does leave what options do we have?! Lars Lagerback? Think he's managing Norway. Bellamy/Giggs - no thanks. Robinson - dont think he'd be as affective as cookie for euro 2020. We need to freshen things up a bit, but dont need cookie to leave, it wouldn't make sense. I wasn't Coleman's greatest fan at the start but I want him to stay. We did not even get to the last game for a couple of decades.
I hope he stays, there's hardly a line of better managers waiting and willing to take on the role. He's not above criticism though. I thought we were complacent in the early games, but I'm not sure what else he could have done last night.
The goal like that has been coming for some time. It was only a matter of time before suicidal distribution from Hennessy would catch us out. The Irish new it and targeted it. They completely let us have the ball but pressed hard when we were trying to play out from the keeper. One nil to Martin Oneill there.
I hate saying this but we should of made more of the fouls against us. Not long before the game ended for Allen he was taken out late by McClean and another. The ball had been passed to Ramsey who had a shot saved. A poor tackle, should of resulted in a booking but Allen sprung to his feet. He should of rolled around for a couple of minutes Irish style. We had a corner but didn't even get a free kick.
Unlike most I'm slightly worried about the future. Lots of cleaver, technical kids seem to be coming through but we need a bit of brawn or we'll forever be bullied to defeat like last night.
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Post by majorraglan on Oct 10, 2017 8:20:44 GMT
Without going into an argument on tonight of all nights, can you really say that using the term 'relative success' to describe Hughes' reign is anything but serious? I'd say that's the exact term to use, given that we ultimately failed to qualify but did achieve a long unbeaten run, came close to qualifying and restored pride? If some people on this thread get their way, and if various interclub rivalry people on twitter get their way, in seeing the end of Chris Coleman as our manager he will not leave a Welsh Football nation heading for its knees. I respect you and I respect your objectivity but I cannot agree with your summary. I am not on Twitter and haven't seen the tweets but this inter club rivalry does my head in. Fans should be putting their club side behind as to one side when it comes to Wales and everything should be geared to supporting Wales, end of. In in terms of Chris Coleman and the future, he has done a good job and has built on the foundations he inherited as did his predecessor Gary Speed. He's taken us to a semi final in the Euro's, which let's be honest most would never have envisaged. He's not been perfect and his decisions and tactics haven't always worked, but I don't think we are in sacking territory. If he wants to stay then so he it, he knows the players and will hopefully have learned from this campaign. If he goes he will leave with his head held high and my thanks for the last few years. If there is to be a new manager, I would like it to be someone who is able to relate to the players and has experience of managing, I would not want to see a complete novice come in. A good manager makes a big difference, Martin O'Neill is a case in point. Gets the best from the tools at his disposal. |
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Post by ger27 on Oct 10, 2017 8:56:31 GMT
I think what Coleman will find difficult is that, in reality, there isn't a proper competitive game now for 17 months. That's quite a chunk of his managerial career, and he is clearly an ambitious man, and whether he signs a new contract or not, opportunities will present themselves to him before the qualifiers start in March 2019.
My feeling is that he'll be with us for the friendly next month, but things may change early in 2018 when a club will come in for him.
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Post by alarch on Oct 10, 2017 9:10:26 GMT
I feel equivocal about Coleman. Whoever comes in will not be able to replicate the rapport Coleman has with the players and fans, end of. And that will be a big loss. It will also be hard for a newcomer to replicate Coleman's excellent defensive record in the last two campaigns. But there are significant areas for improvement offensively, and in terms of our playing style. Coleman was vindicated overall in changing things from Speed's way of doing things - but if the baby wasn't thrown out with the bathwater then it was certainly left clinging to the side of the bath. We've deviated too far from the Speed way, or for that matter the Welsh way at youth level. We've given preference to players with modest technique (King, Edwards, Ledley and Gunter) over footballers (e.g Richards and Joniesta) - and the synergies have suffered as a result. If Coleman does stay I hope he has a long think about things - and objectively analyses the footage from this campaign. There's abundant evidence there of how we've squandered possession cheaply and we've been made to pay for it.
The only possible replacement for Coleman that would truly enthuse me would be a Martinez or Rodgers style appointment. But I can't see us being able to recruit someone of that standing. Failing that, if Coleman does leave I'd rather we appointed an up-and-coming manager like Cameron Toshack, or possibly Carl Robinson, over a tried and tested manager who's brand of football is incompatible with what we're building through the age grades. Martin O'Neill has been brilliant for Northern Ireland despite having no pedigree, so this route can work.
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Post by dai on Oct 10, 2017 9:11:19 GMT
I think what Coleman will find difficult is that, in reality, there isn't a proper competitive game now for 17 months. That's quite a chunk of his managerial career, and he is clearly an ambitious man, and whether he signs a new contract or not, opportunities will present themselves to him before the qualifiers start in March 2019. My feeling is that he'll be with us for the friendly next month, but things may change early in 2018 when a club will come in for him. A chance to play some friendlies and rebuild? We need to start looking at some fresh attacking options and our defence now. We have proved far too toothless in attack time and time again. We need to test the likes of Wilson, Bradshaw, Brooks more. I'm concerned Ash will retire after this campaign, so god knows where our next CB is coming from. |
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Post by ae15 on Oct 10, 2017 9:22:53 GMT
I will say as we though, I don't think Ash has been a great leader this campaign. We haven't got across the line in enough games and he hasn't looked motivational most of the time.
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Post by rioonamazy on Oct 10, 2017 9:24:50 GMT
What a bunch of fickle tw@ts.
Weve had the best run in decades. No other manager is more successful, even with the talent of past teams. were all upset but..
What Coleman done was make us hard to beat with a passing style of play with a limited squad. He hasn't got an abundance of talent. We have 3 class players, 3 ageing Good players and thats it. We lost 1 game. 2 in 22 games.
Problem we got is no quality strikers or backups to take the chances. Bales been playing injured, injured or suspended. Imagine if he had rush, hartson, hughes, Bellamy etc.
We weren't world class before the euros Qual and now suddenly everyone thinks we are. we were in a group where any of the 4 teams were good enough.
Yes there has been substitution mistakes. (i blame him for Serbia not taking off Ramsey), but when they work, eg. Woodburn Austria hes a genius and when they dont, he aint got a clue. Well no ones got a crystal ball and Edwards offers nothing. If HRK scored of Williams cross then again hes a genius. He cant account for a freak goal and to make things worse the ball was fully out of play, ive just seen a photo.
He will step down i think, as a new manager will have a whole year plus the nonsense of nations league. But be careful what you wish for. We could go backwards from top seeds to 4th. remember those days..
Wait to see the NI / Iceland threads when they dont qualify for 2020 calling for manager to be sacked. Put yourself in that bracket of ungrateful tw....
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Post by quetzal on Oct 10, 2017 9:42:04 GMT
Coleman should absolutely stay IMO. If he does leave what options do we have?! Lars Lagerback? Think he's managing Norway. Bellamy/Giggs - no thanks. Robinson - dont think he'd be as affective as cookie for euro 2020. We need to freshen things up a bit, but dont need cookie to leave, it wouldn't make sense. I wasn't Coleman's greatest fan at the start but I want him to stay. We did not even get to the last game for a couple of decades. Like I say I want Coleman to stay but it should also be added we did have a bloody awful campaign and an Irish slump in form really let us off the hook. If the Irish had strung a couple of results together we would have been gone a while back. But I still want the guy to stay. The feeling in Welsh football is completely different post Scotland 85 and Romania 93 and so on. There was nothing coming through after them setbacks. Welsh football feels healthier and feels like we could go on to do something like the Euro run again |
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Post by haruki on Oct 10, 2017 9:47:36 GMT
I want Cookie to stay on and take us to another Euro's but I fear that he will see this as the end of the road for him. He probably can't achieve the heights of another semi final so a World Cup qualification was the next step he could try to deliver in this job. Surely for him now is the time to cash in on his success and get a well paid job.
The next Euro's we have the same nucleus of a squad to go and qualify but for the next manager the real challenge is the period after that when this squad reaches it's natural end of the cycle, most of our key players are the same age and will decline / retire in a short space of time. We have strong depth at keeper and attacking midfield but look much weaker at centre back, centre midfield and centre forward so the spine may struggle if some of our talents in those areas don't progress as expected.
Centre back terrifies me. Ash has lost a yard of pace but is still dominant in the air so he suits five at the back but we don't really want to waste Ben Davies' attacking ability at centre half. Within the squad, Collins is in his twilight, Ampadu is very young and not likely to play regular first team football any time soon, Lockyer's experience is all at league 1. Beyond that there is no guarantee on Harries, Jordan Williams, Joe Rodon or Regan Poole making the step up to first team football. Can we find another James Chester style dual qualified out there perhaps?
I wouldn't want Lars Lagerback, our strength has been our Welshness, watching English born such as Ash belt out the anthem is heartening. For me the new man has to be someone who will stick to the structure and keep Osian Roberts in place. I would also rule out Pulis as his abrasive style doesn't suit the players we have available. For me that narrows down the field to Giggs, Bellamy, Page or Robinson. Do any of those have the required ability for what could be a difficult period given the above? Giggs would use as stepping stone to a Premier League job and leave at the first opportunity; Bellamy is a highly rated coach but is too "heart on the sleeve" for the job?; Page is an appointment from within but very limited in experience and Robinson feels a real wildcard selection.
Looking further ahead, current coach Adam Owen has just got his first job in management at Lechia Gdansk in the Polish top flight, good results could push him into the frame.
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Post by cymroircarn on Oct 10, 2017 9:50:09 GMT
I want Cookie to stay on and take us to another Euro's but I fear that he will see this as the end of the road for him. He probably can't achieve the heights of another semi final so a World Cup qualification was the next step he could try to deliver in this job. Surely for him now is the time to cash in on his success and get a well paid job. The next Euro's we have the same nucleus of a squad to go and qualify but for the next manager the real challenge is the period after that when this squad reaches it's natural end of the cycle, most of our key players are the same age and will decline / retire in a short space of time. We have strong depth at keeper and attacking midfield but look much weaker at centre back, centre midfield and centre forward so the spine may struggle if some of our talents in those areas don't progress as expected. Centre back terrifies me. Ash has lost a yard of pace but is still dominant in the air so he suits five at the back but we don't really want to waste Ben Davies' attacking ability at centre half. Within the squad, Collins is in his twilight, Ampadu is very young and not likely to play regular first team football any time soon, Lockyer's experience is all at league 1. Beyond that there is no guarantee on Harries, Jordan Williams, Joe Rodon or Regan Poole making the step up to first team football. Can we find another James Chester style dual qualified out there perhaps? I wouldn't want Lars Lagerback, our strength has been our Welshness, watching English born such as Ash belt out the anthem is heartening. For me the new man has to be someone who will stick to the structure and keep Osian Roberts in place. I would also rule out Pulis as his abrasive style doesn't suit the players we have available. For me that narrows down the field to Giggs, Bellamy, Page or Robinson. Do any of those have the required ability for what could be a difficult period given the above? Giggs would use as stepping stone to a Premier League job and leave at the first opportunity; Bellamy is a highly rated coach but is too "heart on the sleeve" for the job?; Page is an appointment from within but very limited in experience and Robinson feels a real wildcard selection. Looking further ahead, current coach Adam Owen has just got his first job in management at Lechia Gdansk in the Polish top flight, good results could push him into the frame. We have a few up and coming which is why I think stability is improtnst at this stage and give Cookie another 2 years |
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Post by 1gwaunview on Oct 10, 2017 9:52:26 GMT
Hope Chris Coleman stays. There are some youngsters with potential coming through the age groups so why would he leave except for more money at a club? Perhaps day-to-day involvement with players is also a point.
Why the doom and gloom? We qualified and had a marvellous time at EURO 2016, and came within touching distance of the World Cup. We'd have bitten hands off to have had these experiences 5 years ago.
Who would take his place? Not the regular absentee from Wales games in the 1990's-2000's I hope.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 10, 2017 10:47:37 GMT
I want Cookie to stay on and take us to another Euro's but I fear that he will see this as the end of the road for him. He probably can't achieve the heights of another semi final so a World Cup qualification was the next step he could try to deliver in this job. Surely for him now is the time to cash in on his success and get a well paid job. The next Euro's we have the same nucleus of a squad to go and qualify but for the next manager the real challenge is the period after that when this squad reaches it's natural end of the cycle, most of our key players are the same age and will decline / retire in a short space of time. We have strong depth at keeper and attacking midfield but look much weaker at centre back, centre midfield and centre forward so the spine may struggle if some of our talents in those areas don't progress as expected. Centre back terrifies me. Ash has lost a yard of pace but is still dominant in the air so he suits five at the back but we don't really want to waste Ben Davies' attacking ability at centre half. Within the squad, Collins is in his twilight, Ampadu is very young and not likely to play regular first team football any time soon, Lockyer's experience is all at league 1. Beyond that there is no guarantee on Harries, Jordan Williams, Joe Rodon or Regan Poole making the step up to first team football. Can we find another James Chester style dual qualified out there perhaps? I wouldn't want Lars Lagerback, our strength has been our Welshness, watching English born such as Ash belt out the anthem is heartening. For me the new man has to be someone who will stick to the structure and keep Osian Roberts in place. I would also rule out Pulis as his abrasive style doesn't suit the players we have available. For me that narrows down the field to Giggs, Bellamy, Page or Robinson. Do any of those have the required ability for what could be a difficult period given the above? Giggs would use as stepping stone to a Premier League job and leave at the first opportunity; Bellamy is a highly rated coach but is too "heart on the sleeve" for the job?; Page is an appointment from within but very limited in experience and Robinson feels a real wildcard selection. Looking further ahead, current coach Adam Owen has just got his first job in management at Lechia Gdansk in the Polish top flight, good results could push him into the frame. Good post. I would play Ampadu as soon as possible. Varane played fro RM from the age of 18. Get him in and let him develop. |
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Post by georgetm1 on Oct 10, 2017 10:52:24 GMT
I want Coleman to stay because he has got us to where we are and if we got someone else in we would have to go through a lengthy transitional period while the new manager finds their feet. By the way Giggs as a replacement? Fucking no chance, he hasn't got a job and we don't owe him fuck all because he will be using the Wales job as a stepping stone for his own managerial career. We are totally passed that now and we need someone who is experienced and someone who hasn't got the character of a wet carpet.
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Post by squatter1 on Oct 10, 2017 11:00:10 GMT
I feel equivocal about Coleman. Whoever comes in will not be able to replicate the rapport Coleman has with the players and fans, end of. And that will be a big loss. It will also be hard for a newcomer to replicate Coleman's excellent defensive record in the last two campaigns. But there are significant areas for improvement offensively, and in terms of our playing style. Coleman was vindicated overall in changing things from Speed's way of doing things - but if the baby wasn't thrown out with the bathwater then it was certainly left clinging to the side of the bath. We've deviated too far from the Speed way, or for that matter the Welsh way at youth level. We've given preference to players with modest technique (King, Edwards, Ledley and Gunter) over footballers (e.g Richards and Joniesta) - and the synergies have suffered as a result. If Coleman does stay I hope he has a long think about things - and objectively analyses the footage from this campaign. There's abundant evidence there of how we've squandered possession cheaply and we've been made to pay for it. The only possible replacement for Coleman that would truly enthuse me would be a Martinez or Rodgers style appointment. But I can't see us being able to recruit someone of that standing. Failing that, if Coleman does leave I'd rather we appointed an up-and-coming manager like Cameron Toshack, or possibly Carl Robinson, over a tried and tested manager who's brand of football is incompatible with what we're building through the age grades. Martin O'Neill has been brilliant for Northern Ireland despite having no pedigree, so this route can work. The tiki taka promised land is all well and good, but look at last night's stats: We had 72% possession - can't remember us ever having more. We knocked 490 passes to their 150. We had 10 corners to their 2. But in the end, the moment that won the game was us trying to tiki taka it out from the back and getting burgled. |
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Post by abwales on Oct 10, 2017 11:16:13 GMT
I'd prefer he stay. No hard feelings if he goes. Excited no matter who's manager.
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Post by conwy10 on Oct 10, 2017 11:46:39 GMT
If we're going for fresh ideas we need to go younger. We can't choose someone as a stop gap, they need to buy into playing with technique and creativity instead of going more direct to the old school British way of playing. Ideally they need to have been trained in the Welsh way.
Osian Roberts is the best person to point us in the right direction. Every day I get FAW Twitter posts about the latest legend coming to Wales to do his badges. We have a massive pool of inexperienced but eager coaches to pick from.
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Post by underwood on Oct 10, 2017 11:58:26 GMT
If we're going for fresh ideas we need to go younger. We can't choose someone as a stop gap, they need to buy into playing with technique and creativity instead of going more direct to the old school British way of playing. Ideally they need to have been trained in the Welsh way. Osian Roberts is the best person to point us in the right direction. Every day I get FAW Twitter posts about the latest legend coming to Wales to do his badges. We have a massive pool of inexperienced but eager coaches to pick from. Good point, Thierry Henry, Ginola & Viera have all done their badges with us to name but three. I’m not suggesting that any of them would be any better than Bellamy, but it does indicate the calibrate of people who have been through our coaching set-up. |
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