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Post by cadno on Oct 10, 2017 12:22:44 GMT
His naviety shown last night was very poor, considering how well we have done doing exactly what Ireland did last night. We should have made it a 15 minute game, Jonny was the wrong sub at the wrong time. If it was level at 75minites Ireland would of had to go all out attack then there is only 1 winner. Fair point. Daft goal to concede. |
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Post by joio on Oct 10, 2017 12:25:44 GMT
His naviety shown last night was very poor, considering how well we have done doing exactly what Ireland did last night. We should have made it a 15 minute game, Jonny was the wrong sub at the wrong time. If it was level at 75minites Ireland would of had to go all out attack then there is only 1 winner. That was clearly the plan but we gifted them a goal which changed everything. Although I'm stating the obvious here losing Allen was huge as well. Coleman couldn't control that. However, based on the plan Coleman put in place the only thing he could have done differently was to tell Hennessey to go direct a little bit more. He was constantly putting us under pressure by throwing the ball to our defenders (when it wasn't on) and trying to build from the back - it was so predictable and the Irish dealt with it perfectly. O'Neill did a job on Coleman tactically and Coleman didn't have an answer. This time Bale was unable to bail us out with a free kick or a 30-yard screamer. We've struggled throughout this campaign because Bale hasn't been on form. Woodburn saved us against Austria and Lawrence did it against Georgia but this was a step too far. |
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Post by phillywelsh83 on Oct 10, 2017 12:55:08 GMT
This thread riles me! Be grateful for what Coleman and the boys have done for us! Coleman out, what nonsense. He deserves to now make a decision on his future that suits him best. I hope he stays, i think we are best with him than without, with a potential next manager list that is woeful to say the least.
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Post by toshfan on Oct 10, 2017 12:57:25 GMT
This thread riles me! Be grateful for what Coleman and the boys have done for us! Coleman out, what nonsense. He deserves to now make a decision on his future that suits him best. I hope he stays, i think we are best with him than without, with a potential next manager list that is woeful to say the least. Just to make it clear, phillywelsh83 and I are not the same person even though I just posted something very similar on another thread. |
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Post by phillywelsh83 on Oct 10, 2017 12:59:08 GMT
This thread riles me! Be grateful for what Coleman and the boys have done for us! Coleman out, what nonsense. He deserves to now make a decision on his future that suits him best. I hope he stays, i think we are best with him than without, with a potential next manager list that is woeful to say the least. Just to make it clear, phillywelsh83 and I are not the same person even though I just posted something very similar on another thread. I had just finished writing this when i went on the other thread that you replied to, and thought yep exactly my thoughts! |
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Post by iot on Oct 10, 2017 13:21:23 GMT
Bloody hell this thread is depressing. Really disappointed in the reaction of many on here. When I heard this morning that some had been chanting 'Coleman out' and 'Ashley out' last night I assumed it was just clueless bandwagoners, but it sounds like some of the long-serving supporters are also complicit. We really are just as shit and fickle as all other supporters.
There's a difference from being respectful and making the case for a change in direction, to reactionary, clichéd, 'coleman out' demands. Grow up.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 10, 2017 13:23:41 GMT
I really hope Cookie stays. No one is ready to replace Coleman. To go back to appointing managers as their first job in the game would be a monumental backwards step.
I suppose being absent from the next tournament gives a potential new man time to bed in. Bellars might have the goods one day, he obviously understands the game on an intimate level but there's a heck of a lot to management beyond that. So for that reason Robinson is the only serious suggestion really. One left of field suggestion might be Mark Bowen? Though I'm not suggesting he'd do a good job and I'm searching in the dark with that one.
If Cookie were to go, I think it is important to appoint a Welshman. We got where we did in the Euros because of that unusual passion we have not because we were being lead by an academic technocrats. We already have that figure in Osian. Yes we could promote Osian to the hot seat but to lose Roberts in the role we have him would be a devastating loss to the structure of the entire set up.
We'll face a difficult choices with our choice of friendlies as we really need to be careful about our world ranking which is going to plummet for the next Euros. So we need to play high ranking teams. I think we should be risky and arrange as many as possible so as to blood a plethora of young players, beyond the three names that folks like to mention.
I think Coleman should stay in the job if he's willing to turn down better money. The Swansea job is starting to look inevitable in my view. Though I can imagine him doing OK there if that fat yank clown gives him the time.
I find it amazing how a single game can distort opinions. Had we won yesterday and Serbia drew, Coleman is a genius again. Thankfully the FAW would never push Coleman, it'll be down to him if he wants to jump.
Please stay Cookie.
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Post by toshfan on Oct 10, 2017 13:23:47 GMT
Bloody hell this thread is depressing. Really disappointed in the reaction of many on here. When I heard this morning that some had been chanting 'Coleman out' and 'Ashley out' last night I assumed it was just clueless bandwagoners, but it sounds like some of the long-serving supporters are also complicit. We really are just as shit and fickle as all other supporters. There's a difference from being respectful and making the case for a change in direction, to reactionary, clichéd, 'coleman out' demands. Grow up. You are not alone in speaking out against him going. |
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Post by jono on Oct 10, 2017 13:32:35 GMT
If Coleman is to stay we need to develop a more attacking game plan which puts games to bed. The Georgia and Serbia games ultimately cost us, along with a calamitous mistake last night. Playing with 1 forward has got to be scrapped.
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Post by greenscorpio1967 on Oct 10, 2017 14:09:25 GMT
Idiotic FiFa rules I feel cost Wales a place in finals !!!
I had a feeling this may be the scenario, when the stupid rules was that the 8 best runners up was going to go through and the other eliminated.This meant that the teams in the most"all round competitive groups"ie wales and Croatia may well be one of the runners up who get eliminated . It like comparing the runners up in say league one with the runner up in the championship ridiculous .Not to mention how stupid Italy and Spain was drawn together France, Sweden and Holland. isure they could have best runner up and the other 8 play offs as I think they done that in past tournaments.having an extra euro side, central America have strong representation whilst south America have only 4 certs ie argentina may not qualify no world cup with out Bale or messi or even Ronaldo bring on Syria and south korea ect.Point is what ****** it up was knowing wlaes had to win cos Croatia was obviously going to do the business in Ukraine . I feel it made all the difference wales could have played 5 at the back and just sit back thanks FIfa
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Post by jono on Oct 10, 2017 14:12:03 GMT
Idiotic FiFa rules I feel cost Wales a place in finals !!! I had a feeling this may be the scenario, when the stupid rules was that the 8 best runners up was going to go through and the other eliminated.This meant that the teams in the most"all round competitive groups"ie wales and Croatia may well be one of the runners up who get eliminated . It like comparing the runners up in say league one with the runner up in the championship ridiculous .Not to mention how stupid Italy and Spain was drawn together France, Sweden and Holland. isure they could have best runner up and the other 8 play offs as I think they done that in past tournaments.having an extra euro side, central America have strong representation whilst south America have only 4 certs ie argentina may not qualify no world cup with out Bale or messi or even Ronaldo bring on Syria and south korea ect.Point is what ****** it up was knowing wlaes had to win cos Croatia was obviously going to do the business in Ukraine . I feel it made all the difference wales could have played 5 at the back and just sit back thanks FIfa Isn't Fifas fault we couldn't put Georgia or Serbia to bed at home. Or not thrown away 2 leads in Austria and the lead in Serbia. |
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Post by greenscorpio1967 on Oct 10, 2017 14:29:32 GMT
True the group was very competitive ,surprisingly geogia was in pot 6 and they even outplayed Ireland , Wales, Serbia ,Austria at times .So they was nt a conclusive best team I feel. Austria was arguably the best team in the group on paper they finished fourth .If Wales had of drawn last night 0:0 last night and Croatia drew 1;1 it would have gone on how many yellow cards lol
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Post by fiveattheback on Oct 10, 2017 14:51:26 GMT
Coleman may see this as as far as he can take the present squad and I wouldn't blame him if he stepped down, he's still relatively young and could do well in the club game
If he does want to leave then now/November would be the perfect time to do so, with 11(?) months until the Nations League allowing the FAW enough time to find a replacement and for the replacement to bed in
Talk of sacking is ridiculous though
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Post by phillywelsh83 on Oct 10, 2017 14:54:27 GMT
If Coleman is to stay we need to develop a more attacking game plan which puts games to bed. The Georgia and Serbia games ultimately cost us, along with a calamitous mistake last night. Playing with 1 forward has got to be scrapped. We need our strong defensive base to build our attacks, we start playing attacking we will be picked off at the back and lose games. We are as good as we are, make the most of the players we do have. |
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Post by erasedcitizen on Oct 10, 2017 15:13:53 GMT
Push the boat out and get Sparky. Are you drunk? I was, actually. |
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Post by erasedcitizen on Oct 10, 2017 15:18:27 GMT
I would consider deleting the thread as I'm already finding myself disagreeing with a lot of what I said, but there is some interesting debate in here.
I'm in the Coleman stay camp, as I cannot think of a suitable replacement.
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Post by biwmares on Oct 10, 2017 15:48:57 GMT
Im a Coleman convert I was not keen on when he was appointed.
But fairplay what he has achieved is fantastic so really want him to stay on & possibly add another coach to the set-up.
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Post by iot on Oct 10, 2017 16:05:07 GMT
I would consider deleting the thread as I'm already finding myself disagreeing with a lot of what I said, but there is some interesting debate in here. I'm in the Coleman stay camp, as I cannot think of a suitable replacement. Shouldn't delete the thread but couldn't you change the title to something like 'Coleman's future'. Reading in between the lines of Gunter's statement today, it's fairly obvious that the squad are aware of the criticism from some quarters. Take this line: "For every negative comment or opinion shows how far we have taken this nation". That's superb. My view of the campaign, trying to be as objective as possible, is that we've only slightly underperformed relative to the strength of our squad. It was always going to be tough to qualify and we only just came up short. We're not world beaters and haven't been way below par as many imply. That, coupled with what Coleman achieved for us in the Euros, should mean he gets to decide whether he wants to give it another go. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 10, 2017 16:22:37 GMT
... If he does want to leave then now/November would be the perfect time to do so, with 11(?) months until the Nations League allowing the FAW enough time to find a replacement and for the replacement to bed in Talk of sacking is ridiculous though A question which I think is vital for our Welsh future here - will we still be in the Nations League now? Won't we drop out of contention because our ranking will fall? If we don't then this could be a huge lifeline for us as it will allow us to play high ranking teams to avoid plummeting in the rankings which we would otherwise without major tournament games. This could also be the glue to keep this team together. For example the staff and players like Ash and Ginge might stay on a bit longer. Giving us time to bring youth through at an organic rate. |
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Post by erasedcitizen on Oct 10, 2017 16:53:41 GMT
I would consider deleting the thread as I'm already finding myself disagreeing with a lot of what I said, but there is some interesting debate in here. I'm in the Coleman stay camp, as I cannot think of a suitable replacement. Shouldn't delete the thread but couldn't you change the title to something like 'Coleman's future'. Great shout! |
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Post by siwrexham on Oct 10, 2017 17:22:42 GMT
Exactly jono - Gunter has been a liability for some time - backwards only player Boring to watch with the talent we have at our disposal!!! Need a fresh manager who has got better tactics than Coleman - this will be a blessing in disguise if he goes - Please!!!! Is this clown in here just to troll or are they serious? Gunter epitomises the spirit of this team and has been fantastic for Wales for years with his consistent displays. I can only assume that you don't actually watch the games but just like to have an 'out there' opinion on things to try and rile others. Stop the ridiculous comments. |
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Post by gwernybwch on Oct 10, 2017 17:44:51 GMT
This thread riles me! Be grateful for what Coleman and the boys have done for us! Coleman out, what nonsense. He deserves to now make a decision on his future that suits him best. I hope he stays, i think we are best with him than without, with a potential next manager list that is woeful to say the least. Surely it depends on whether the "decision on his future that suits him best" is also the best for Welsh football? If in his heart of hearts he isn't up for another qualifying campaign I would hope that he comes out and says it soon rather than hanging on the job or resigning a contract, whilst secretly waiting for a plum job in club management. |
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Post by ae15 on Oct 10, 2017 18:14:46 GMT
The problem we have that Coleman hasn't ever sorted is:
A. We aren't risky enough.
B. We have a distinct lack of quality in the final third from most of our players.
A.
The reason why we have such a good defensive record is down to the fact that we don't take enough risks that mean we can open up teams. Rarely ever when we are playing the ball out from the back do we attempt splitting pass to open up the defence and bypass the midfield. This means that we don't offer up the chance of the ball being cut out and a counter attack starting, but it also means we can't ever open up the opposition once they are in shape. Same with formation - our defensive record is based on a straight 5 at the back a lot of the time which is difficult for any team to break down but also means we have ineffective players constantly putting balls in the box.
B. We have such a lack of quality of crossing and finishing. Our set pieces are dreadful despite having supposedly one of the best headers of the ball Vokes playing most games. There was very little point Gunter being on the pitch last night because he couldn't put a good ball in to save his life unfortunately. Same goes for whenever Taylor plays. One of our strengths should be our aerial ability with Bale and Vokes, and yet we've only scored 3 headers all campaign and from only 1 set piece - 2 were against Moldova.
Our shooting is also horrendous. Ramsey butchered a number of great shooting opportunities all campaign, blazing over mostly, and shows no actually killer quality in the final third. Allen can't shoot, neither can Vokes or Robson-Kanu and Lawrence's shooting is either incredible or horrendous. That shooting drill they do before every game just seems to get worse and worse. We need to be playing players who actually possess that quality in the final third to get a good ball in or a good strike because we get into the space to do that often enough, mainly due to Allen's brilliance in the midfield. We had plenty of chances to whip a good ball in last night and we only did it once with Joniesta's cross for HRK, and even that was mainly a brilliant header and also many chances to hit a good strike on goal and make the keeper work, but far too often it flew over the bar or was tame.
Much of our problem in this campaign has been turning good positions into chances and this is largely down to Coleman's reliance on trustworthy stalwarts like Andy King, Chris Gunter, Neil Taylor, Dave Edwards and to a large extent Sam Vokes. We've got a great team and a surprisingly deep squad now - we can't afford to put square pegs in round holes in our system because the players are trustworthy.
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Post by rushy on Oct 10, 2017 18:26:18 GMT
What I fear most of all should Coleman decide to leave, is the loss and break up of the incredible togetherness of the coaches, players, staff and fans alike. Its been an integral part of this comparatively successful period which has seen us climb to such heady heights in the world rankings.
The failure last night was a bitter pill, but if a new face came in with his own coaching ideas and motivational methods, Im not sure that almost unbreakable bond that exists within Welsh football right now, could be maintained , its something Ive never known it to be as strong, in all the years as a Wales football supporter.
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Post by ystradwales on Oct 10, 2017 18:29:18 GMT
I've waivered on Coleman throughout his management yet he has got results and taken us to a Euro semi final. There's always a nagging thought in my head that he could do better sometimes tactically and be proactive rather than reactive.
If he does stay maybe he needs someone else with him (obviously Osian Roberts has to stay) rather than Kit Symons to help him tactically?
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Post by conwy10 on Oct 10, 2017 18:40:39 GMT
To be fair to Coleman there is only 1 person available who could have replaced Joe Allen and that was Johnny Williams. His tenacity, willingness to get on the ball, agility and ability to keep the ball in tight spaces made him the only replacement he could have chosen.
I know we went defensive and got caught out late on by Serbia twice, Austria and Georgia but we've done the same and beaten Belgium, Northern Ireland and Slovakia. Ironically Ireland beat us because they went defensive and weren't interested in getting forward after their goal. It's football.
If we're looking for people to blame for us not qualifying we need to look at Hennessey's awful pass, Gunter not being good enough going forward, Williams getting caught out, Chester not dealing with Mitrovic, Taylor getting sent off against Ireland, Davies missing loads of half decent chances last night, Allen getting suspended for key games, Ledley dithering over finding a club, King for being anonymous in matches, Ramsey not showing up in key matches, Bale's awful run of form, Robson Kanu and Vokes not being able to get the goals.
Whilst we're looking at them though we also need to realise those same players gave us possibly the greatest experience of our lives in France. It's ok being together stronger when everything is going our way but we need to be together stronger even more when it isn't.
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Post by iot on Oct 10, 2017 21:34:45 GMT
To be fair to Coleman there is only 1 person available who could have replaced Joe Allen and that was Johnny Williams. His tenacity, willingness to get on the ball, agility and ability to keep the ball in tight spaces made him the only replacement he could have chosen. I know we went defensive and got caught out late on by Serbia twice, Austria and Georgia but we've done the same and beaten Belgium, Northern Ireland and Slovakia. Ironically Ireland beat us because they went defensive and weren't interested in getting forward after their goal. It's football. If we're looking for people to blame for us not qualifying we need to look at Hennessey's awful pass, Gunter not being good enough going forward, Williams getting caught out, Chester not dealing with Mitrovic, Taylor getting sent off against Ireland, Davies missing loads of half decent chances last night, Allen getting suspended for key games, Ledley dithering over finding a club, King for being anonymous in matches, Ramsey not showing up in key matches, Bale's awful run of form, Robson Kanu and Vokes not being able to get the goals. Whilst we're looking at them though we also need to realise those same players gave us possibly the greatest experience of our lives in France. It's ok being together stronger when everything is going our way but we need to be together stronger even more when it isn't.Well said! togetherstronger my arse! |
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Post by pendragon on Oct 10, 2017 21:37:12 GMT
There's one man who should be next manager and one man only. A man who the players love OSian roberts He would be an excellent choice. A man with great skill, experience and rapport with the players. |
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Post by marsvolta on Oct 10, 2017 21:40:57 GMT
Quite simple for me-
Lack of replacement
Players want him to stay
Good record
- Cookie to stay
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Post by jono on Oct 10, 2017 22:12:11 GMT
If Coleman is to stay we need to develop a more attacking game plan which puts games to bed. The Georgia and Serbia games ultimately cost us, along with a calamitous mistake last night. Playing with 1 forward has got to be scrapped. We need our strong defensive base to build our attacks, we start playing attacking we will be picked off at the back and lose games. We are as good as we are, make the most of the players we do have. I don't think we'd be picked off by any team in this group. Imo we're better than them all and should have adopted a more attacking plan. Though obviously, I wouldn't expect us to play that way verse a France, Germany, Spain etc. We can start by dropping the negative 1 up front. |
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