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Post by rossyjones on Oct 10, 2017 22:15:43 GMT
Would love for him to stay. With so many young players coming through the ranks I think it's important to have some
Stability. Having said that, lots of things need to be addressed.
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Post by hookd on Oct 10, 2017 22:36:39 GMT
The big concern for me is that if he stays on then he would continue to pick the likes of Ledley and Gunter. Ledley is past his sell by date / hardly moves, while we need a more attacking right back than Gunter - I would much prefer Richards. The problem is that those two are Bale's best mates!
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Post by dai on Oct 10, 2017 22:40:13 GMT
I disagree regarding comments on Ledley, thought he was up there with our best last night. Completely stood up and was counted upon.
As for King..........
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Post by erasedcitizen on Oct 10, 2017 23:14:05 GMT
I disagree regarding comments on Ledley, thought he was up there with our best last night. Completely stood up and was counted upon. As for King.......... King played? |
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Post by joseywales37 on Oct 10, 2017 23:29:12 GMT
I hope Cookie will stay, but I do think we have to think of how best to utilise our attacking players better. I.e Bale's most memorable goals imo are when he is tight to to the touchline with space to charge past players at speed and then either cut in on goal or cross the ball. Since he has been given the free role he hardly takes up this position in comparison to the early part of his career, when we are under pressure, this imo is a no brainer way of relieving the pressure with one pass out of defence, also makes the opposition think twice about the amount of players they bring forward at corners etc. I noticed this in a few games where that one outball to a pacey player could have helped. Also against opposition like Ireland where we spent most the game crossing to nobody as Ireland had 4 big players against Hal or Sam, at one nil down with 20 mins left, we should have really thought of having both Hal and Sam up front ready for crosses, 1 front post 1 back with Ramsey holding back on edge of area if a knockdown came his way (even though he was terrible on the night), even if we lost another goal, we tried putting Ash up front in injury time, wrong player too late. For the most part we have turned a corner.
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Post by bale-droed on Oct 11, 2017 6:26:34 GMT
I would consider deleting the thread as I'm already finding myself disagreeing with a lot of what I said, but there is some interesting debate in here. I'm in the Coleman stay camp, as I cannot think of a suitable replacement. Osian Roberts? |
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Post by erasedcitizen on Oct 11, 2017 6:29:34 GMT
I would consider deleting the thread as I'm already finding myself disagreeing with a lot of what I said, but there is some interesting debate in here. I'm in the Coleman stay camp, as I cannot think of a suitable replacement. Osian Roberts? Is there any benefit to giving him the manager's job as opposed to just keeping him on in his current post? |
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Post by squatter1 on Oct 11, 2017 7:09:00 GMT
To be fair to Coleman there is only 1 person available who could have replaced Joe Allen and that was Johnny Williams. His tenacity, willingness to get on the ball, agility and ability to keep the ball in tight spaces made him the only replacement he could have chosen. I know we went defensive and got caught out late on by Serbia twice, Austria and Georgia but we've done the same and beaten Belgium, Northern Ireland and Slovakia. Ironically Ireland beat us because they went defensive and weren't interested in getting forward after their goal. It's football. If we're looking for people to blame for us not qualifying we need to look at Hennessey's awful pass, Gunter not being good enough going forward, Williams getting caught out, Chester not dealing with Mitrovic, Taylor getting sent off against Ireland, Davies missing loads of half decent chances last night, Allen getting suspended for key games, Ledley dithering over finding a club, King for being anonymous in matches, Ramsey not showing up in key matches, Bale's awful run of form, Robson Kanu and Vokes not being able to get the goals. Whilst we're looking at them though we also need to realise those same players gave us possibly the greatest experience of our lives in France. It's ok being together stronger when everything is going our way but we need to be together stronger even more when it isn't. Good post. But you missed out the final, most elementary reason we didn't get over the line in this group: Bale got injured. |
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Post by phillywelsh83 on Oct 11, 2017 11:04:17 GMT
There's one man who should be next manager and one man only. A man who the players love OSian roberts He would be an excellent choice. A man with great skill, experience and rapport with the players. Has he ever managed? A great coach doesnt always make a great manager - look at Steve McLaren (one of the best coaches in the world), bang average manager. Different jobs. |
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Post by cymroircarn on Oct 11, 2017 11:26:37 GMT
He would be an excellent choice. A man with great skill, experience and rapport with the players. Has he ever managed? A great coach doesnt always make a great manager - look at Steve McLaren (one of the best coaches in the world), bang average manager. Different jobs. I'm sure Osian has managed in the LoW and it didn't go very well. Could be the quality of the players he had mind. |
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Post by dai on Oct 11, 2017 11:29:21 GMT
As much as I love Osian Roberts' work and he's a great, great man. I have a few reservations about having him as actual manager. I personally don't think he's a rousing and strong enough character to manage the team. Maybe I'm wrong though.
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Post by phillywelsh83 on Oct 11, 2017 11:29:28 GMT
Has he ever managed? A great coach doesnt always make a great manager - look at Steve McLaren (one of the best coaches in the world), bang average manager. Different jobs. I'm sure Osian has managed in the LoW and it didn't go very well. Could be the quality of the players he had mind. Wales U-16, U-18, B Team and Porthmadog according to Wikipedia. |
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Post by quetzal on Oct 11, 2017 11:31:51 GMT
We would destroy Osian if we made him manager. Let the man just do the fantastic job behind the scenes. Lets not destroy that.
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Post by phillywelsh83 on Oct 11, 2017 11:32:27 GMT
We would destroy Osian if we made him manager. Let the man just do the fantastic job behind the scenes. Lets not destroy that. Totally agree with this. Hes an outstanding coach, let him do what he does best. |
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Post by conwy10 on Oct 11, 2017 12:39:07 GMT
Is there any benefit to giving him the manager's job as opposed to just keeping him on in his current post? I think everyone knows he's pretty much the godfather of football in Wales. He's put in all the plans for coaches in Wales in place and as a result we're now getting Welsh Academy teams competing on a level playing field as English teams, beating them in many cases. We're now bringing a plan into place to identify players at ages as low as 10 who have the potential to make the national teams. I also hear he puts all the plans in place for Wales and Coleman selects what he thinks is best and puts them into place. Whether he's manager or not he is the main guy in the Wales set up. Bring in a manager to motivate the players who is happy to let Osian Roberts do his thing. |
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Post by phillywelsh83 on Oct 11, 2017 12:58:32 GMT
Is there any benefit to giving him the manager's job as opposed to just keeping him on in his current post? I think everyone knows he's pretty much the godfather of football in Wales. He's put in all the plans for coaches in Wales in place and as a result we're now getting Welsh Academy teams competing on a level playing field as English teams, beating them in many cases. We're now bringing a plan into place to identify players at ages as low as 10 who have the potential to make the national teams. I also hear he puts all the plans in place for Wales and Coleman selects what he thinks is best and puts them into place. Whether he's manager or not he is the main guy in the Wales set up. Bring in a manager to motivate the players who is happy to let Osian Roberts do his thing. I think the key point is keeping Osian in the set up, however we move forward from here. I hope its with Coleman, as it works. |
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Post by welwyn on Oct 11, 2017 13:02:53 GMT
I want to be like Storm and go mental because , in his words, "we've blown it". Because, frankly, we have. However, unlike him, when it comes down to every game individually I can't blame anything Coleman has done: Austria away 2-2I believe we played quite well for the first hour (until Allen came off ). However, both goals had an element of 'good Arnautovic' and an element of individual errors to both. Plus, at that stage, anyone would have taken the away point.
Georgia home 1-1
Players relaxed after we took the lead. Credit to Coleman for trying to change it albeit that he got how he changed it wrong. After how bad that went, then I am actually impressed he didn't put 4 at the back away permanently as a result.
Serbia home 1-1
Whole game, maybe the whole campaign, comes down to when Bale hit the post...it bounces AWAY from Lawrence and they counter. MAYBE he could have yanked Ledley earlier but that's nitpicking.
Ireland away 0-0
Think Coleman set-up the right way, get into the game and open up last half-hour. I am certain that Woodburn would have been unleashed were it not for the red. Then he had to sit back and Bale still almost won it.
Serbia away 1-1.
Best performance of the campaign?
And then last night, which has been done to death.
Can't really see enough to really say it's Coleman's fault. If he wants to leave he should be allowed to with our blessing....AS LONG AS IT ISN'T GIGGS!
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Post by garynysmon on Oct 11, 2017 13:06:16 GMT
Has he ever managed? A great coach doesnt always make a great manager - look at Steve McLaren (one of the best coaches in the world), bang average manager. Different jobs. I'm sure Osian has managed in the LoW and it didn't go very well. Not sure where you got that idea. Alongside Viv Williams, with one of the smallest budgets in a league with a squad completely from Anglesey and Gwynedd, kept them in the top flight for years. |
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Post by haruki on Oct 11, 2017 14:08:52 GMT
I want to be like Storm and go mental because , in his words, "we've blown it". Because, frankly, we have. However, unlike him, when it comes down to every game individually I can't blame anything Coleman has done: Austria away 2-2I believe we played quite well for the first hour (until Allen came off ). However, both goals had an element of 'good Arnautovic' and an element of individual errors to both. Plus, at that stage, anyone would have taken the away point.
Georgia home 1-1
Players relaxed after we took the lead. Credit to Coleman for trying to change it albeit that he got how he changed it wrong. After how bad that went, then I am actually impressed he didn't put 4 at the back away permanently as a result.
Serbia home 1-1
Whole game, maybe the whole campaign, comes down to when Bale hit the post...it bounces AWAY from Lawrence and they counter. MAYBE he could have yanked Ledley earlier but that's nitpicking.
Ireland away 0-0
Think Coleman set-up the right way, get into the game and open up last half-hour. I am certain that Woodburn would have been unleashed were it not for the red. Then he had to sit back and Bale still almost won it.
Serbia away 1-1.
Best performance of the campaign?
And then last night, which has been done to death.
Can't really see enough to really say it's Coleman's fault. If he wants to leave he should be allowed to with our blessing....AS LONG AS IT ISN'T GIGGS!
I largely agree with that, aside from georgia at home, individually those draws all look like decent results but it is the collection of draws that was our undoing especially seeing as we led in four of those games. We need to develop a bit more of a killer instinct to put teams away when we have our noses infront |
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Post by greenscorpio1967 on Oct 11, 2017 15:30:25 GMT
maybe cookie a Great bloke and Good manager ,maybe great managers are martin o Neil, Michael o Neil and Hallgrimsson of Iceland we need a manger who can get the best of the Squad as a unit
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Post by welshiron on Oct 11, 2017 15:32:04 GMT
Those managers failed at the euros in comparison
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Post by greenscorpio1967 on Oct 11, 2017 15:49:27 GMT
lol that one of the most untrue comments regarding hallgrimsson considering his team consists of a group of player s who country are picked from a population of 600,000 and beat England ect. N Ireland over achieved on a similar level. Wales was amazing and achieved more than expected but this time round the have underachieved if you compare the four squads
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Post by greenscorpio1967 on Oct 11, 2017 16:03:21 GMT
stupid me lol pops Iceland just over 300,000 god know how many male guys in apt age bracket lol
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Post by greenscorpio1967 on Oct 11, 2017 16:03:41 GMT
and they failed lol
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Post by alarch on Oct 12, 2017 9:19:13 GMT
www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/41593426When Yorath's contract wasn't renewed all those years ago I was one of the few that was equivocal about the situation. Yes, Yorath did a great job - which can be summarised as follows: - Yorath had a very poor first, World Cup, campaign, where we finished bottom, below Finland.
- This was followed by a terrific Euro campaign, from which we nearly qualified from a group containing Belgium (who we beat at home and drew with away) and Germany (with only one place up for grabs). Yorath introduced some innovative stuff - including the then radical introduction of a back five.
- In the subsequent World Cup campaign he made some critical mistakes, most notably abandoning the wing back system for a back four away to Romania - we were 5-0 down before half time, and "won" the second half 1-0 when we reverted to a back five. It was still a good campaign, but we were also poor in the final match against Romania, who deservedly won.
The similarities with Coleman's time as Wales' manager are uncanny. The question is - should we move Heaven and Earth to give Coleman an extended contract? I wasn't sure back in the day with Yorath and I'm not sure now. The way things turned out with Yorath - then, with the benefit of hindsight, we should have stuck with him. The idea that Toshack could do a proper job on a part-time basis was never credible. The lesson from that experience is that if Coleman's contract isn't renewed then it should be because we're confident that there is someone available who can do a better job. That's a tall order.
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Post by dai on Oct 12, 2017 11:12:07 GMT
www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/41593426When Yorath's contract wasn't renewed all those years ago I was one of the few that was equivocal about the situation. Yes, Yorath did a great job - which can be summarised as follows: - Yorath had a very poor first, World Cup, campaign, where we finished bottom, below Finland.
- This was followed by a terrific Euro campaign, from which we nearly qualified from a group containing Belgium and Germany (with only one place up for grabs). Yorath introduced some innovative stuff - including the then radical introduction of a back five.
- In the subsequent World Cup campaign he made some critical mistakes, most notably abandoning the wing back system for a back four away to Romania - we were 5-0 down before half time, and "won" the second half 1-0 when we reverted to a back five. It was still a good campaign, but we were also poor in the final match against Romania, who deservedly won.
The similarities with Coleman's time as Wales' manager are uncanny. The question is - should we move Heaven and Earth to give Coleman an extended contract? I wasn't sure back in the day with Yorath and I'm not sure now. The way things turned out with Yorath - then, with the benefit of hindsight, we should have stuck with him. The idea that Toshack could do a proper job on a part-time basis was never credible. The lesson from that experience is that if Coleman's contract isn't renewed then it should be because we're confident that there is someone available who can do a better job. That's a tall order. That's the crux in all of this, the FAW, majority of fans and even the players don't want anyone else. It's up to Coleman at the end of the day. He probably feels like he failed, and in a way he has, but I still feel he has unfinished business. Just a waiting game now. |
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Post by 1gwaunview on Oct 12, 2017 11:19:07 GMT
FAW have a history of cocking up managerial appointments.(1) Yes, Terry Yorath's contract should have been extended. (2) Mike Smith's second coming was a huge mistake. (3) Bobby Gould, enough said.
Remember 1985 after we played Scotland at Ninian Park, then secretary Alun Evans (fool) passed silly comments about Mike England, who then pushed him up against a wall and had to be pulled away, England's contract was not renewed.
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Post by phillywelsh83 on Oct 12, 2017 11:23:12 GMT
I think he will feel more pressure to stay now because we haven't qualified. If we had qualified he could have gone out chin up. Now he has a decision to make. To be honest other than Swans job if that became available, what job is he going to get? After the Euros, the best job he could get was Hull.
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Post by bale-droed on Oct 12, 2017 11:45:47 GMT
I think he will feel more pressure to stay now because we haven't qualified. If we had qualified he could have gone out chin up. Now he has a decision to make. To be honest other than Swans job if that became available, what job is he going to get? After the Euros, the best job he could get was Hull. Good point Do you think Michael o Neill has done a better job? ( I do) and do you think he would get a job at say Palace or West Ham? |
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Post by CrackityJones on Oct 12, 2017 11:52:36 GMT
If we had got to the World Cup Coleman would have had plenty of offers after the tournament. As it is, I'm sure a few clubs that were keeping an eye on him may be having second thoughts.
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